it is amazing the crap a person has to put up with when they become popular for what ever reason in our sport. So many arm chair cowboys who are more than happy to spread rumors and untruths at the drop of a hat. and that don't care who or what they hurt. It makes a person wonder when total strangers who have never had contact in any way with someone write BS about them

Nganga,

I am the same person in person, you always know what you will get with me...

I'm not into sensationalism for profit. In my opinion, which is just and only that, MS is. Just not my cup of tea.

I took no side in this. SCI has the right to admit or ban anyone as an exhibitor. They find something negative about MS. They exercised their right to exclude him.
I have heard that he was not at DSC either this year, any truth to that rumor?

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Nganga,


I have heard that he was not at DSC either this year, any truth to that rumor?

Rich
DRSS

He hasn't exibited at DSC for several years now! I have no idea why, maybe he simply didn't sell many hunts out of th DSC show. I suspect that was the reason he has not exibited at DSC, of course that may now change, and the new African hunting show in the Southeast may see him as well.

Anyone who knows me will tell you I have no affection for MS's hunting methods, but in all fairness the rules at SCI were not followed in this case, and that alone is grounds for litegation.

I have to agree with Jeffeosso on this one, even Al Capone was given a hearing before he was sent to prison,and I think MS at least should be given a reason for his expulsion in writing. Like him or not the he is intitaled to have his expulsion done according to the writen rules of SCI! Otherwise his conviction was simply a lynching by a kangaroo court!

My personal objection to MS was formed by what he himself presented on film as his true nature, and that is my writen objection to MS.

Now if all the things in his films were make believe and didn't happen the way they were shown, then at least he did one of two things, either faked the film or film is his true nature. He is on record saying the latter is true.

Either way his methods are not to my liking. All that intitales me to is, I don't have to book a safari with him, not that I could afford to anyway. Still I believe SCI owes him a written reply to the cause of his expulsion!

...........................Just my two pennys!

Next they may want to throw out Marc Watts for shooting things too far away. What a bunch of bs.

JD

Need clarification...

Has MS been kicked out of the SCI club?
or
Was MS just not allowed to exhibit at the convention?

quote:

Originally posted by ghostbird:
Need clarification...

Has MS been kicked out of the SCI club?
or
Was MS just not allowed to exhibit at the convention?

I think he was only barred from exibiting, but if that was the case with me,without an explanation, they sure than hell wouldn,t get by annual dues for membership there after.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Nganga,

I am the same person in person, you always know what you will get with me...

I'm not into sensationalism for profit. In my opinion, which is just and only that, MS is. Just not my cup of tea.

I took no side in this. SCI has the right to admit or ban anyone as an exhibitor. They find something negative about MS. They exercised their right to exclude him.
I have heard that he was not at DSC either this year, any truth to that rumor?

Rich
DRSS

Rich,
I understand, and yes I kinda am getting to understand you. You have no filter between brain and mouth, you think it, you post it, no problem here. As you well know, the forum will take you to task at times for it.

Keep in mind he is a salesman, marketer for his goods, a PH and a bit of a showman. As has been said many times, like him...don't like him, hunt with him.....don't hunt with him. He is selling a product that is not for everybody.

I am a small businessman that started my business 20 some odd years ago, I had a vision, pursued it and made it happen with my own two hands. Mark Sullivan had a dream to be a professional hunter in East Africa, if for NO OTHER REASON than that he has my upmost respect.

To me it is not black and white but all the shades in between that matter.

Steve

Without passing judgement on MS (never read his books, never watched his videos and doubt I'll ever be rich enough to hunt with him, so what does my opinion matter?)...

On the surface, yeah, it sucks that SCI isn't giving him a "fair hearing". However, as a private club, SCI can decide who and who it does not want as a member.

As an example, how far do you think you'd get, as a proud hunter, if you applied for membership with PETA, HSUS etc. And how far do you think a lawsuit demanding you be granted membership would get you?

Wannabebwana:

SCI is engaging elitism and hypocrisy. Mark Sullivan has done nothing compared to SCI regarding ethics and morality.

I actually enjoyed Mark Sullivan's booth. There is always a crowd mesmerized when watching his dangerous game videos and I find that funny. I met him once and we shook hands. He was very friendly and personal. He acted professional and was genuinely nice.

I would never book a hunt with him.

Most members of AR and hunters in general are conservatives politically. We are capitalists. Let the free market decide Mark Sullivan's fate....not SCI politics.

The question is: Why is SCI threatened by Mark Sullivan? And why is SCI envious of Mark Sullivan? SCI never clearly explained their actions or reasons banning Mark Sullivan.

That is way many AR members may not agree or like Mark Sullivan, but they support him because everyone knows that it is not a secret that the SCI board is infected with corruption, double standards, and jealousy.


dale

Where in Alabama does Mark live?

maybe he stepped on one of sci favorite's ie inner circles clients toes. maybe he's not politically correct enough for them

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:
Why is SCI threatened by Mark Sullivan? And why is SCI envious of Mark Sullivan?

I don't think SCI is. I do think some muckety muck with power in SCI is.

Brett

Brett,maybe its powers to be here..

I would hunt with him in a heart beat.

I couldn't give a rats arse what SCI thinks of him.

Oh dear, I think I just said that I like MS.

I hope that doesn't upset too many folks.

John Frederick,who cares who it upsets,thats your true feeling,you have the right to say what you want.......

quote:

Originally posted by capebuf:
John Frederick,who cares who it upsets,thats your true feeling,you have the right to say what you want.......

Thanks Mate.

Actually I don't give a flying fart if I upset people.

The guy has balls and I sure would like to be able to shoot a double as well as he does.

quote:

Actually I don't give a flying fart if I upset people.

????really??

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

quote:

Actually I don't give a flying fart if I upset people.

????really??

Ok, you are right, I am actually a shy, sensitive, retiring sort of guy.

I knew you would see through me, I can run but I can't hide.

No matter how much of an a@&%$%e someone is, he still deserves to be treated fairly by SCI or any organization that wants my membership dollars. Regarding the secrecy of the Board, it makes me wonder if some board members wife was involved. Or something similar happened.

465H&H

Been following this thread for a while and what continues to intrigue me is the lack of first hand knowledge hunting with this man. I would be curious if someone who has hunted with him just chime in and provide an account of your experience. I have read dozens of second and third hand accounts.
There have got to be at least 2 or 3 people on this forum that have hunted with this gentleman.
Actually, I believe there was a thread dedicated to this exact subject a while back.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
Where in Alabama does Mark live?

Northport a/k/a North Tuscaloosa. I know because next time I'm down that way I plan to look him up and offer to buy him a drink and a big steak.

Want to feel sorry and outraged by the treatment someone is getting? Save it for the estimated 100,000 people in China who are imprisoned every year for the crime of having a Bible in their possession. Save it for the millions of people Idi Amin slaughtered while he was in power.
Save it for the estimated six-thousand US Servicemen who are still in POW camps today in Vietnam.

Nobody has answered the question yet; was MS allowed to exhibit at DSC in 2010?

A note to the bleeding hearts here hardly anybody here gets insulted by what others post.
You have to rise or fall, to the level of Busheler to get people to voice an opinion.

regards to you all,

Rich
DRSS

DCI is not part of SCi ... start another thread

Grown men behaving like kids...

L

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:

quote:

Originally posted by zimFrosty:
I would be very interested to hear from anyone with a legal backround whether this is an infringement of either MS personal rights, or in fact of SCIs own regulations governing membership..........or perhaps they are just so big they dont care

I believe that's exactly the point. SCI is a private club. If they say keep out they are fine. But if they give him a reason they give him legal fodder. Hence the silence.

Brett

Is MS still a member? A private club is still answerable to its members. Why don't some of you members ask the SCI board to explain why MS is being kept out and even send them a legal notice. Why not send them a legal notice regarding OOA?

quote:

I would be curious if someone who has hunted with him just chime in and provide an account of your experience. I have read dozens of second and third hand accounts.

How about....Mark joins the forum and posts under his own name?

There have been a few others in a similar field/capacity who had been slammed from time to time on the forum, they joined, weathered an initial storm, and now are contributing members who's posts are valued by most everybody, myself included. It seems like now would be a perfect time.

Come on Mark, man-up!

We may very well have a new member tomorrow.


Steve

It's about time. A few positive comments for Mark. But be careful, though, you may be asked not to attend SCI's next convention.

It is my understanding Mark is not allowed at DSC. I was told this by a board member there in January and the reason was the videos. Now, I'm not putting DSC in the same category as SCI but I saw lots of videos with animals getting killed and wounded. The video theory I believe is incorrect. I have been told (not confirmed) that many PHs and a well-known writer have pressured SCI to stop his exhibits--he is still a member, jut not allowed to have a booth. A lawyer told me if SCI gave Mark a specific reason for his dismissal he would indeed have grounds for a law suit. With no reason--no grounds.

Mark is a gentleman and a true hunter. As soon as I get the funds I will hunt with him and it was a pleasure to feature him in my .600 book. (By the way, a few at SCI would not buy the book when they Mark was in it--but many more did). If any of you guys want to buy my 4-bore double Hughes, I will use some of the $ to hunt with him.

It would be nice if Mark would take part in these discussions on AR. I would welcome whatever he has to say.

Cheers all.
Cal

Whatever their reasons it needs to be public info to the membership. If you want to remove ay doubt of collusion or conspiracy there needs to be transparency. I always bristled at the your not smart enough to understand all the issues mentality they seem to have. If I can get my way every accusation, hearing, controversy and outcome will be public at least for the members.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
We may very well have a new member tomorrow.


Steve

that would be very nice

peter

quote:

Originally posted by peterdk:

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
We may very well have a new member tomorrow.


Steve

that would be very nice

peter

+1

Welcome Mark if you come on here. I look forward to your input!!!

Brett

Welcome Mark if you come on here. I look forward to your input!!!

Brett[/QUOTE]
+1
I have hunted with too many guys who tell me that MS got them onto Africa. So like him hate him he is good for African Hunting in as a whole.
I know of a Safari operater who is unethical deliberatelly dishonest has been fined by SCI and once banned for 6months.Hes still in.Hes being investigated by Interpol, the FBI and a SCI memeber to my knowledge.
wheres the justice

Just a rhetorical question here. Do you really buy all the pap and shite that someone like Glenn Beck puts out? Tears excluded of course. The man (MS) obviously found a very profitable schtick and ran with it. I am guilty as Hell as I bought his videos and books. Sales baby it's all about the sales.

Jeff "The Sucker"

it's all about the marketing. Could it be that he was getting to popular with his clients or selling to many videos. OR possibly he is just not politically correct enough or perhaps he did not kiss the right ass's at sci (In no way calling the man an ass kisser)in fact after seeing all the BS here I would like to meet the man and get to know him

I agree with Jeff. What do you want him to do? Put out another boring plains game video that is guaranteed to cure my insomnia? I don't see many threads on those videos. Sounds to me that Mr. Sullivan has found what works. I say good for him.

If one is truly objective, why is it worse to immediately follow up on a wounded buff rather than sit there and wait for it to die? I do think that once they see the wounded buffalo, that they should shoot rather than wait. However, even with the waiting for the animal to charge, it likely dies a lot faster than it would with the average hunter.

I hate that "choose how it is going to die" BS.

For whatever it is worth, I sent Mark an e mail expressing my support for him with this fiasco and my displeasure with SCI. I got a very gentlemanly response.

I do believe I would go with him. However, only after we had a talk about him shooting and follow up.

I think I have only one of his videos - maybe it is "Death on the Run" but am not sure. Frankly, I enjoy it immensely each time I watch it. Exciting in all respects and even after reading all I have on AR about him, I didnt see a single incident on that DVD where he shot his client's game inappropriately and not once did he utter the famous "choose how he is going to die" phrase. Overall, based upon this single DVD (and I might have another of his movies in VHS but no fuctioning VHS player for some time), he is entertaining and far more exciting that a great deal of other crappy hunting videos on which I have wasted my money.

Even if all of the above were not true, it seems to me that we members of SCI have the right to know the details of decisions made on our behalf.

Why?

Because there might be a damn good reason for his "ban" and we should be aware of those reasons. I can't make a good decision about anything without the facts presented.

If there is not a damn good reason, then we members hould be able to hold the SCI leadership responsible and throw their asses out of leadership positions.

Why?

Because if they ban him without cause, they can do the same to me or to you or to anyone else who might fart in the wrong direction.

Like him or not, we should know the other side to this story to at least be able to make our own choices in an informed fashion.

Mark is taking this much better than I would. I would be gearing up to buy my lawyer a new Mercedes I think.

As an SCI member, I find their process and behavior very disturbing. I don't know MS from Adam's off ox, so have no interest in that regard. However, I certainly do believe that SCI has a moral obligation to comply with our American sense of justice, including clarity, openess and due process.

quote:

our American sense of justice, including clarity, openess and due process.

Sorry, there is no one at SCI who can understand the above words!

My suggestion is that everyone here who is a member of SCI and anyone else who thinks MS is getting the shaft from SCI, flood the Tucson office with calls or e-mails on this subject. I am out of my office right now but will try to get a name, number or e-mail address of a person, other than the receptionist who will get the full jest of our complaints and concerns. If anyone else can get this info prior to my doing so please post it here please. This elitist Executive Board arrogance and silence to the general membership needs to cease.

I really think if we can raise enough concern down there in Tucson and the Board sees enough input from members something will be done???

It's just like all other things political, we have to make the effort and make the call/calls. Most here know I am an real supporter of SCI, but this is one of the only things in over 12 years of membership than has me concerned about their behavior. I know a lot of you can name many more, but let's get to the bottom of this one first?

Larry Sellers
SCI Life Member