Anyone interested in a competition with first prize a buffalo bull hunt in South Africa or Zimbabwe (winner decide where), please contact me on karl@huntingsafaris.net

Karl S.

Welcome to the forum.

You might wish to post complete details of this hunt here.

details please

The buffalo hunt will take place in the Limpopo province of South Africa, or in the Sengwa area of Zimbabwe. The choice of hunting venue is up to the winner of the competition. The hunt will be a 5-day hunt for a bull Cape buffalo, inclusive of trophy fees, day fees, transport to and from closest airport. It does not include the dipping and shipping of the trophy, or any other cost incurred before of after the safari. All the conditions normally applied to hunting with Ndumo Hunting Safaris, will apply.

You cannot lose! For your entry you still get a great hunt, guarenteed! Instead of spending your hunting budget at another outfitter, we invite you to spend it with us. In return, you receive a quality hunt of your choice, plus you have a 1 in 20 chance to hunt the mighty Cape buffalo for free.

The winner will have the choice of adding this hunt on to his already booked hunt, or taking it at a later stage in the year. The hunt must preferably take place in 2006.
To qualify for the draw, a hunter must book a minimum of a 7-day hunt with Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd, before 28 February 2006. (Certain special packages also qualify a hunter to be entered into the draw.) The buffalo will only be drawn if a minimum of 20 hunters takes up this offer.
1) If more than 10- but less than 20 hunters take up the offer, the winner of the draw will have the choice of adding a buffalo hunt on to his booked safari at US$ 6000, or extend his safari with 3 days during which time he can hunt his choice* of 2 of the following – kudu, zebra (Burcell’s), gemsbok, hartebeest, blue or black wildebeest, vaal rhebuck, klipspringer- for free. (*Please note that choice may be limited in region that hunt is booked.)
2) If less than 10 hunters take up the offer, all hunters that take up the offer will receive a voucher of 10% of their package deal, or 15% of their normal daily rate. This voucher can be used for extra hunting days, extra animals on pricelist, as deposit for future hunts, or for dipping and shipping in South Africa only.
3) If more than 30 but less than 40 hunters take up the offer, a second prize will also be drawn, which will be the same as in 1) above.
4) If more than 40 hunters take up the offer, two buffalo hunts will be drawn.
5) The draw will take place Wednesday 1st of March 2006, at 12h00 South African time.
6) Independent accountants will make the draw. Their decision is final.
7) No person associated with Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd, or his or her immediate family may enter the draw.
8) Booking a safari and paying a 50% deposit on the daily rate, or 40% of a package, is a prerequisite for inclusion in the draw. This deposit must be made in such time that it will be shown as available in Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd South Africa’s bank account by 10h00 on the day of the draw. (1st March 2006). If a hunter cancels his/ her booking after the draw date, no refund of deposit will be made unless another hunter takes up the booking.
9) Hunts booked in Zimbabwe do not qualify for this draw.
10) Bow hunts do not qualify for the draw.
11) Buffalo can be hunted with rifle or bow in South Africa, but only with rifle in Zimbabwe.

References are available, this is not a fly by night offer. We decided to try this avenue as a marketing tool, to increase our customerbase by at least 20 new hunters. If it works well, we will extend and repeat it in the future. Any suggestions and comments are also very welcome.

For more information, please contact Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd. directly on supplied details. More details will also be available on our website shortly.
http://www.huntingsafaris.net
info@huntingsafaris.net
karl@huntingsafaris.net
+27 82 576 6773
Karl Stumpfe

Karl,

Clever. Very clever indeed!

Andrew McLaren

Now that's what I call an entry fee!

Don,
Yes the entry fee is high, but then you do get a hunt anyway. Also, you have a one in 20 chance to hunt buffalo. For FREE. So, if you were already planning to go to Africa, I hope my little incentive might convince you to try my outfit.

Just to clear some confusion up- a hunter can book anytime in 2006, but his booking must be made before end February 2006 to qualify for the draw.

Surprised Ray Atkinson didn't think of this...

Dangle a buff to sell an '06 booking or two...

Is this good business...or just another sales spin?

Sounds like desperation...I'll pick my own outfit, country and primary prey animal(s).

RHSim
Thanks for replying. Call it desperation, call it clever marketing, call it what you like. It is a free site, so everyone is free to choose his/ her own outfitter/ prey animals etc. As I said in my post, we are trying to expand our client list with at least 20 hunters, and so far it seems to work...
BTW, what animals would you like to hunt?

quote:

Sounds like desperation...I'll pick my own outfit, country and primary prey animal(s).

Karl S,

I admire your persistance, BUT...

The topic of this thread is: "Free buffalo bull hunt." I missed something. Where does the "free" part come in?

Doug

quote:

Originally posted by douglast:
The topic of this thread is: "Free buffalo bull hunt." I missed something. Where does the "free" part come in?

Doug

Doug //

IMHO to a degree it comes close to the false advertising category, as the main HEADLINE is enticing ( baiting type advet) and not strictly true

BUT once you read the fine print it then actually becomes clear that it is a (lottery with a twist) in that you have to first book and put down a deposit on a hunt to enter the lottery.

Playing devils advocate, in a (court of law) there could be debate both ways so I would put it in the (slightly deceptive marketing category) and not what I personally would call good up front marketing, BUT there is actually nothing illegal and we are all free to market by our own rules

I personally dont like that marketing approach but (who am I to judge) as it might in fact be acceptable to those hunters wanting to go into a hunting type lottery where you dont lose anything and you do get an outside chance at a free hunt, with conditions of cource

Good luck, and lucky we live in a free world where we have freedom of choice and no matter what you and I might say at least the poster is up front and saying he is trying to get 20+ hunters to his concession or hunt location

Peter

Hi Douglast/ BellaBella
I am sorry if you perceive my offer as deceitfull, (although only slightly), that is not my intention. I recon that since you are not losing anything, (you still get a hunt that you are willing to pay for), and you stand a chance of winning a buffalo hunt, i reconed the buffalo is free. If you guys really have a problem with the title, I can change it (provided that it can be done)

quote:

I am sorry if you perceive my offer as deceitfull, (although only slightly),

Hi Karl. DTH will be along shortly to discuss this with you. Sit tight.

DB

While I had a negative reaction to the title of this thread when I saw the details, once I digested Karl's very straightforward answer I was satisfied.

Write the title off as a normal advertising gimmick, used every day in the USA. (It got all of us to read this thread, didn't it?)

Karl is not pretending to be anything other than an outfitter trying to boost his business. Once he was invited to post the details, his response was immediate, open, and apparently complete.

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:


Write the title off as a normal advertising gimmick, used every day in the USA.

Actually, in most states of the U.S. this offer is illegal as a lottery (which is banned in some states and must comply with strict regulations in other states). In contrast, a free drawing (in which there is no entry fee, such as the purchase of a PG hunt) is legal.

So if a U.S. citizen takes advantage of this offer and does not win the buffalo, he can pursue the matter through either his state attorney general's office or a private attorney and the court will award damages, which would be the value of the buffalo hunt.

This "extreme policeing" is getting out of hand nowadays. Why do we always have to Prove a point to someone?

We all know what Karls' aim is and he has not kept any of his intentions hidden. Give the guy a break. Personally i see nothing wrong with what he is trying to do and we all have a choice to either take his offer or not.

Good hunting!

I have no issue with this as it is a well used advertising gimmick.

What kills me is that guys that advertise weight loss, no exercise and you can eat more. I, for the life of me, cannot see how that can happen without some sort of action.

So now an outfitter in RSA - not using an agent in the USA - has to meet all the laws of "most" United States? Why must lawyers and lawyering suddenly figure large on AR?

There was nothing ever said that the drawing was free. Quite the contrary.

I've got no dog in this fight, but it sure seems a stretch to try to make an international case out of Karl's straight-from-the shoulder offer.

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:
So now an outfitter in RSA - not using an agent in the USA - has to meet all the laws of "most" United States? Why must lawyers and lawyering suddenly figure large on AR?

There was nothing ever said that the drawing was free. Quite the contrary.

I've got no dog in this fight, but it sure seems a stretch to try to make an international case out of Karl's straight-from-the shoulder offer.

Using the internet to sell to a customer in the U.S. will be the basis that a court here would use to establish jurisdiction. If anyone wants to ingore the law, that's completely up to him and a risk he can feel free to take. In this instance the safari company may find that the law works to its disadvantage.

No need to get your feathers ruffled, Don. If you do not like the law then run for the legislature and change it.



Bwanamich, if I were doing something illegal in you country (but thought it was legal), would you have the courtesy to let me know?

Apparently not.

__________

On second thought, perhaps you would:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
The info I get from TAHOA (Tanzania Hunting Outfitters Association)is that concession holders are NOT allowed to sub-lease their concessions.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

A non TZ registered outfitter can book a hunt with any of the listed companies and hunt in their concessions PROVIDED the listed company "outfits" the safari and that the client is "guided" by a TZ registered PH employed by the listed company.

The fact that it is a common occurence does not detract from the fact that if not done correctly it is an illegal transaction.

It's called "being anal"

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
It's called "being anal"

Try to show some class.

Thanks to every one that is responding, First off, I do not think it is a lottery. All I am doing is giving my clients (and not agents) the kickback I think they deserve. I approched a few agents, most were reluctant to take on "another South African outfitter". I have a lot of hunting experience (both as guide/ PH, as well as hunting for myself), but cannot afford to have take a newish (since 2003) outfit like Ndumo Safaris to a big show to gain more clients. 500grains, if you honestly believe I am breaking the law, PM me what you recon I must do to be in line with it.

quote:

So if a U.S. citizen takes advantage of this offer and does not win the buffalo, he can pursue the matter through either his state attorney general's office or a private attorney and the court will award damages, which would be the value of the buffalo hunt.

Bloody typical isn't it?

If I don't win I call my lawyer? A mentality to be proud of - NOT!

Karl,

You have posted all the details, and set your conditions. Those who don't like them, don't have to enter, period.

I cannot believe the utter ignorance of some people here.

Karl is in South Africa, and he is offering it to a world wide audience, so why does he have to comply with any US law?

Saeed,
You are correct. Most of us in the US think we are lawyers because we have seen it on TV or been abused by a lawyer.

Careful 500grains, Saeed must be having a bad day at the office, maybe Howard is trying his patience...

By the way, who the hell is "Mike Boyd", so I can at least appreciate the insult Saeed is throwing my way...

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I cannot believe the utter ignorance of some people here.

Saeed, ignorance of the consequences of our actions can indeed lead to serious problems. Don't you think the posts above can help to avoid those problems? I can't help it that there is significant precedent in this area, and that it goes against the lottery organizer. Do you think Americans like all of the laws we are subject to?

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:
(clipped) 500grains, if you honestly believe I am breaking the law, PM me what you recon I must do to be in line with it.

Oh, brother! Now you've done it!
Dave

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

Saeed, ignorance of the consequences of our actions can indeed lead to serious problems. Don't you think the posts above can help to avoid those problems? I can't help it that there is significant precedent in this area, and that it goes against the lottery organizer. Do you think Americans like all of the laws we are subject to?

Well, I'm certainly glad we've got the ultimate authority in everything here on AR to protect us. Instead of saying "Thank God", from now on I'm saying, "Thank Grains"!
(Hey! What happened to the "ROTFLMAO" emoticon?)

As it is a free country that I live in, I decided to not withdraw the offer. Anyone is free to buy a normal lottery ticket in SA, even a American tourist on holiday. However, I still believe that this is NOT A LOTTERY. It is a kickback that I will extend to "loyal" customers.

quote:

Anyone interested in a competition with first prize a buffalo bull hunt in South Africa or Zimbabwe

First prize is a buff hunt. Are there other prizes as well or is it the ONLY prize?

Hi Onefunzr2
As you can see, if more than 20 people respond there is extra prizes/ incentives. See my second post from the top.
Regards, Karl Stumpfe

Another thread heading downhill.It happens to a lot lately.

What I don't quite understand is why everyone feels like they have an egg to lay in every thread.I have news for these busybodies - you don't have sole ownership of common sense.We all can make up our own minds and most of us are grownups.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Do you think Americans like all of the laws we are subject to?

Yes but the poster in question is not a US citizen nor, I presume, licensed to do business in the US. By what authority would a US court compel a citizen of another country to appear in court?

Howard

While I agree that this is a silly discussion as this is an international forum based in Dubai, I guess. 500Grains has a point.

Any American can sue anybody and if he gets a judgement can attach the unlucky loser's possesions and money when that person enters the US. It happens all the time at SCI where a client sues an outfitter or agent from another country and gains a victory in the local court. When the outfitter/agent comes to SCI he is served with the judgement and monies raised or even his booth is siezed to satisfy the judgement. Of course it is a bit more complicated than this but you get the picture.

Before everyone starts jumping on this as a US infringement you had better check out your own countries laws to see if you don't do likewise.

I remember this superb article Karl. You're a fine writer. Welcome aboard!

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Do you think Americans like all of the laws we are subject to?

Yes but the poster in question is not a US citizen nor, I presume, licensed to do business in the US. By what authority would a US court compel a citizen of another country to appear in court?

Sorry Howard, but I am prohibited from responding directly to your post due the policy I announced in another thread.

However, I have explained it to Karl in detail in a series of PMs in case he should wish to avoid the type of complication that operating a lottery through the internet that reaches U.S. citizens at home can give rise to. The problem can be avoided by simply excluding U.S. citizens from participation in the lottery part.

Yes you are right. I too know of this happening.

I really don't see the problem with KarlS giving AR members the chance at a cape buffalo hunt, if they enter a competition by hunting plains game with him.

As for the "deceit" of the title, the Buffalo hunt IMO is FREE! You pay for a plains game hunt, and if you are lucky you get a FREE upgrade to a BUFFALO HUNT. Sheesh!

If you don't want a plains game hunt, don't ffffing book! If you want a plains game, you book, and surprise surprise, you may get a really good bonus! A free cape buffalo hunt added onto it. Any magistrate or judge would assume someone capable of travelling across the other side of the world and back again without getting lost in Atlanta's airport, should be capable of reading the whole first post. They have to read it in order to enter the bloody contest.

As for all this fucking USA legal bullshit, the hunt and drawer is taking place in South Africa. If the Hunt agreement states, "this agreement is made under the jurisdiction of the laws of South Africa", you are entering into a hunt contract based in South Africa under South African laws, not the USA. You are probably sending your deposit to South Africa and it is banked there.

The internet is NOT THE USA!

If I enter it, is the USA involved, of ffffing course NOT!



(I don't intend too, though as I would just buy the buff hunt in the first place)

(OK I have vented for the day )