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Not 300% I assume!  I agree AAZW w/what you say and walk that walk within reason, and reiterate that my problem is not necessarily with the TF increase if the value exists (the market will determine this), as it is with the manner in which Parks went about it. No advance notice, the "resellers" out of the country and in fact actively selling product on Parks behalf (in addition to the contracts they already had in place), and no ramp-up allowing the outfitters and buyers time to work it out. If any of my suppliers/venders tried to pull this, I'd drop them on the spot....as would my clients me. But of course, there are no options for the Outfitters in Zim. For the sustainability of the industry and the wildlife, what there should be, is a respectful and mutually-beneficial PARTNERSHIP between the outfitters and the new Parks. | |||
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Fair enough. However, you also have to bear in mind, in my opinion, that for many years Zimbabwe has been the best value in dangerous game hunting by a good bit. Without question, these increases result in the diminishment of that value advantage (particularly as compared to Mozambique) but I still think it enjoys a value advantage for dangerous game hunting over other available locales (particularly given the trophy importation restrictions that exist in Mozambique). Mike | |||
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Very interesting information and I cannot say that I am surprised. The market for Dangerous Game hunting has consolidated which allows those that are still involved to increase the price they get. With Botswana and Zambia closed, their competition has decreased. This consolidation has gone on among the airlines, cell phone providers and beer companies to name a few. Zimbabwe has always been viewed as a great place for a DG hunt. Competitive prices, fairly easy to travel to, and top notch PH's that speak English have made it attractive. I have only done 4 safaris to Africa. My first 3 were in SA for plains game and I enjoyed every minute of it. My last safari was to Zimbabwe for a buff hunt, for me which was a progression of my African hunting addiction. I am booked for a tuskless cow hunt this summer. Will an increase affect me going? Probably not as I am pot committed at this point after saving for 3 years. I also haven't told my wife! This may well be my last DG for quite sometime as it seems the market is shrinking and prices are rising. In the future I will look to hunting different Plains games species in SA or Namibia that I have not previously hunted, and may even look at some hunting in South America. If I get priced out of DG market(and I hope I don't), I may not like it but I understand in the end its business. The danger of civilization, of course, is that you will piss away your life on nonsense | |||
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This probably only applies to legit Rhodie firms, I imagine you dont have to pay the increased fees if your hunting with one of the South African pirates in Wankie.  | |||
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Thanks so much for what has been an amazing response to this unpleasant surprise. The emails we have had and the support has been brilliant- thanks you- here is just one of many that sums it up ! Buzz, That is a real bugger, for you and your customers. Running a business there must be like masturbating with a cheese grater, mildly amusing but mostly painful... I'll bring a couple of nice cubans and some cognac for us to toast (commiserate) the Zim business development council... Hope it doesn't effect business going forward too much for you guys. Cheers | |||
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good point Bill | |||
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Zim has had to stay cheaper for the all political BS. I have never hunted over there because I was always afraid the US would throw sanctions on Zim at the last minute that either didn't allow me to hunt or not allow me to import my trophies. Time has showed that to be a risk I may have over calculated. | |||
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For a hunter relatively new to hunting Africa, the price increase may be a consideration when contemplating on upgrading from a plains game hunter to dangerous game.The real interesting thing is what will happen with those hunters that hunt buffalo along with other species that they want to collect such as the cats and elephant. Perhaps other exclusive animals such as Roan Sable etc. I have taken several buffalo. I usually arrange a hunt so I can hunt buff. When they become too costly I will stop hunting them.. The increased trophy fees will also impact the hunting of cats. Taking three buff for baits for lion makes the lion a lot more expensive to hunt. The last hunt i did in Tanzania I had to shoot all of the quota of game to feed the cats. I shot double of many I didn't want just to bait cats. Still had to send of and buy 4 cows to use to freshen baits. Very expensive hunt. I still have some species in Africa to hunt and will. Just wont buy a hunt that includes overpriced buffalo in the deal unless it is a monster. Then it wont be on quota for me. It is a loose loose deal for everyone. square shooter | |||
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Being from Texas, this reminds me of the days when you could go to Mexico and slaughter the the doves for "el cheapo". Bottom line-the economy will drive everything. Hunting Zim seems to have been the "bargain" previously, and I have only been once. Change is inevitable. At age 60 I wish I had spent the money I used on deer leases 20+ years ago on going to Africa. Hindsight is always 20/20. As for me, I will go back as soon as I can afford it (hopefully 2014, Buzz), and there is no other operator I would consider other than CMS. Talk to you soon Buzz & Miles! Just my $.02. "Never, ever, book a hunt with Jeri Booth or Detail Company Adventures" | |||
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Pretty sad news all and all for Africa as whole! I take my hat off to the guy's in Zim who are trying to keep face by not pushing their prices up along with the Government but in the bigger picture no man should work for free. Best Regards Louis van Bergen | |||
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Fortunately for the operators they still have some fantastic cat and elephant hunting that was only minimally affected by the change. I would still consider Zim a top destination for those, I wouldn't even consider those modest increases a blip on the radar. But for the guy that wanted to do a valley hunt for buffalo, or a combo leopard/buff, well it just went up 20 percent. There will still be plenty of buff sold- they just won't be to guy's like me who have to save for years to take a trip. | |||
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My last hunt to the valley was a disaster (NOT WITH CMS MIND YOU). It's left me very leerry of ever doing another DG hunt in Africa. Now that I see the prices skyrocketing it pretty much kills the deal for for me. I go back and forth but his certainly isn't helping the process. | |||
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Namibia has been fine twice for plains game. Probably going to France this year, especially Normandy. Argentina for red stag and dove is a strong possibility. Zim has been good many times but the ruined trophies, crime, and poor communication have been discouraging. Maybe something positive will present itself but for now Mozambique for dangerous game and Namibia for plains game make Zim very much a second choice. If the welcome mat has been withdrawn I have innumerable alternatives. The sooner Americans respond to this the quicker attempts to fleece us will be retracted. They need us more than we need them. | |||
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I am not disputing your experience, but my perception would be that your experience in Zim has been the exception and not the rule. Probably a function of who you booked with and where you booked, but certainly seems to have been a minority experience given the experiences of many others. Mike | |||
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I would strongly second that Mike. I had problems on my first trip to Zim but most of that was due to going through a SA outfitter for a hunt in Zim. My last 3 trips to Zim have been with CMS and everything from start to finish has been outstanding. I'm going back with them again this year as well. | |||
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Oh I don't know. I hunted with HHK in September of last year. They stuck us in a 4 star dive recommended by HHK in Vic Falls so I had to fix that on site. Getting through Vic Falls airport cost some "gifts" that were above the going rate of anywhere else I have hunted in Africa. I also had a written contract stating they(HHK) would have quota for me of: 1 kudu bull 1 waterbuck bull 1 eland bull Others Guess what? Day one, I spot a nice group of Eland and they explain to me that my 3 above animals are all gone, so sorry. The damn eland was the second most important animal after the Elephant. It would have been my fourth Eland species and I made this clear to HHK when I signed on the dotted line. I've hunted a couple times in Cameroon, and SA as well as once in Tanzania. I've only been screwed over in Zimbabwe. So he is not the only one with a bad experience. Unless your going to tell me now that HHK is a fly by night Mickey Mouse outfit and its my fault too. | |||
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Probably not what you want to hear, but there are (and have been for a while) lots of rumors swirling out there about HHK, including unpaid concession fees, unpaid PHs and other problems indicative of financial issues. I am not saying the rumors are true, but I know that they have been circulating for some time now. Certainly the rumors would be consistent with the problems you experienced last year. Not saying no one that has been to Zim has had a bad experience, I am saying that for everyone that has had a bad experience there seem to be a dozen that have had good experiences. Obviously, your mileage may vary. Mike | |||
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Went with Zambezi Hunters in '11, borderline perfect! My trophies were shipped in less than 3 months. Will be back with them in 5 very long months. I am truly sorry when I hear of people being screwed by bad operators, I just have not had 1 yet. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Reputation is everything. I've hunted with CMS twice, and have two more booked. (Leaving early April!) It will change the formula regarding shooting a buffalo, however. My experiences in Zimbabwe have been more than positive. | |||
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Johnny Hulme was a PH in our group few years ago.He was an outstanding, friendly young man. I recall he is no longer running Zambezi but wherever he is I am sure he is doing his very best for his clients. If we give Zim another try, or even Mozambique, he would be at the top of our list to contact. | |||
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I hesitated to jump in there on that issue Mike but I have heard the exact same things you describe here concerning HHK and was thinking as much concerning SG's recent experience. | |||
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I hope the rumors are just that rumors. It would be a pity to see a good outfit like HHK and someone like Graham hit hard times, not to mention all the good PHs that are affiliated with HHK. Mike | |||
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Agree with that statement as well. | |||
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I will say this. IF I were to ever hunt the valley again Buzz (CMS) is the ONLY guy I'd go with. | |||
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Anyone can have a bad hunt, and Zim. has a few bad operators. I hunted with a real piece of work on my first trip to Africa in RSA in 2000.I came back the following year with another company, and had some great hunts. I'm sure every country has some bad operators. More importantly, it's great that Buzz, and Miles, and other companies are doing what they can to keep hunting in Zim. alive. I have met some wonderful people in Zimbabwe. Most of them are tied to the hunting industry in some way. I want to see them succeed, and I an not done hunting there. If we lose Zimbabwe Africa won't be the same. I have a hunt scheduled in late June with CMS in DSA. These price increases will be tough for me, but I'm going to find a way. We need these guys to survive and prosper. Bob | |||
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Thanks folks for the positive feed back and we are so fortunate to be able to hunt time and time again with such good guys! SGOLDS- I am sorry about your experience and on that I cannot comment but I can say that EVERY operator in Zim has faced all sorts of challenges in the last few years and a good many of them are not within their control!! Regarding rumours on HHK I can tell you that they are 'hunting as usual" and as far as I know PHs/concession fees etc are all paid - It is not my position to really even comment on any of this however I did feel that it would be important to know for any clients that are booked with them that "their camp is in order" as such and your hunts will not be affected. I am off first thing tomorrow with a fellow AR gentlemen after ele and I hope when I return in 2 weeks time we will see some sort of U turn on trophy fee increases but am not too optimistic on it- Happy hunting cheers Buzz | |||
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Jonny is at Safari De Mozambique Full time professional trapper | |||
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Does anyone have any updates on SAVE (quotas, who is hunting, who is not....) Thanks | |||
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Buzz, I am sure that your information is more reliable than what I heard wandering around at the DSC convention. I will say that I heard pretty much the same story from several different people, both outfitters and former clients. Enough said, we will chalk it up to noise. Thanks for clearing it up. Mike | |||
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Exactly, and you will pay the increment for the privilege. It is the likes of CMS who will benefit from repeat business and in the long run will sort out the men from the boys. Buffalo have been put on a pedestal and it is where they deserve to be. This animal is the most sought after in the world and deserves the recognition. Me I would rather hunt Buffalo than any other specie on the planet. You put your life on the line when hunting this grim beast and there is always a price to pay for this. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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+1 ???
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Gentlemen, My partner and I are booked w/ Buzz & Myles for early June in Dande and reading all of the positive comments makes me feel good. My wife and I met them both @ the DSC Convention in early Jan. and we were both impressed by their outgoing, friendly manner. This will be my 2nd hunt in ZIM for DG, buffalo, and as they say, "the bug bit me" and I have to return! Thank you all! Brittman Wes | |||
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USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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There is price and there is value. With CMS you are getting the value in your price. | |||
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