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Maybe things are coming back in a full circle whereby African hunting will only be for the wealthy, as it once was. There are lots of powerful evil forces working against hunters and shooters it seems worldwide and certainly also in this fair land of USA! The drop in African hunting will certainly have an effect on the demand for big bores, double rifles, big bore ammo and so on as well. This crap has happened before. In the 1970s when India officially banned hunting, the very best double rifles were sold for peanuts. A lot of the game also vanished. It seems many countries in Africa will go the sameway as well now. Enjoy it while you still can. Book a Safari today  .Arjun Reddy www.huntersnetworks.com | |||
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you mean you don't have a $60,000 sheep hunt in the works? once again an African game dept. shoots itself in the foot and succeeds in blowing its leg off. long term reprecussions of this idiotic decision will be severe.makes me very glad i shot a buff in the Selous 8-9 years ago before they priced me out of the market and another in the Omay 3 years ago before the same mess occurred. there will be a shrinking pool of dangerous game hunters to Africa as this escalates... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Absolutely. | |||
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100%. Sure, there are places where you can pay $30,000 or more to hunt Elk but they are few and far between and not at at all necessary. A $15,000 elk hunt and a $10,000 mule deer hunt will probably net you one hell of a trophy. Further, and unfortunately, Ibex in Mongolia or Kyrgystan is now looking like a 50% off sale relative to Cape Buffalo. A bear hunt in Kamchatka? Buffalo in Australia? Even that recently posted Sika hunt in Japan with an option for Bear....not too shabby in comparison. Even other options within Zim look better than Cape Buffalo. From the looks of the new fee structure, tuskless or even bull elephant just got cheaper in relative terms as well. Personally, I would rather postpone a 2015 buff hunt for a year, save a bit of money, and hunt bull elephant in 2016 but that's just me. The point is that this new pricing scheme, in addition to taking people out of Zim, will also re-shuffle the internal demand for other DG species and perhaps, even in the intermediate term, impact the demand for and price of them as well. What happens to the demand driven price of elephant hunts in 2016 or 2017 if enough guys postpone or cancel their now expensive buff hunts in favor of chasing pachyderms? | |||
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Uff.. everytime I open AR I read more bad news  | |||
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So putting the pieces together, your future buff hunt in the Valley will cost $3k more and if you want to add plains game you will have to pay for the whole lot upfront whether you shoot them or not? As per CMS website 10 day buff hunt @ $16009.00(2013) + $3000 = $19009.00. That is before any charter, tips, air travel, taxidermy,observer, video, etc. That's a serious amount of cash in the average man's life. JCHB | |||
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All I can say is what it did to my clients. I had 8 Masailand Buffalo hunts booked that year with Luke. Every single one, without exception, canceled. Luke refunded every one. I think the increase was around $4000 or so? Nobody wanted to take that hit. I did not rebook any of those hunts if memory serves me correctly. Interestingly enough, I had three 21-day in Masailand and none of them canceled. That increase was about $20,000. Business in Tanzania has been off ever since then. | |||
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Hello. I am new here. The problem with increased hunting costs is not limited to just trophy fees. All aspects of hunting have been going up at an unsustanable rate for years, and not just in africa. I returned from my 7th and possibly last safari last july. I can still afford to go and would like to go on more safaris but there are some prices I cannot justify paying. My wife and I just got back from Cozumel. The cost was $2500 and included all food, drinks, 5 star lodging and airfare. This is less than the cost of 1 daily fee for only me in some countries. Observer rates have also gone past the point of reality. $250 - $500 per day to take my wife along? She is going to ride in the same vehicle as me, sleep in the same bed as me, and they are going to feed her with the game I shot and paid for. For $400 I can lease a c class mercedes for 1 month. Leaving her home for 12 days gets me a whole year! How about $500 to $1000 to pick me up from the airport? I can and have rented my own car and driven myself to camp for far less. Don't even get me started on $5000 to $15000 air charters! Back in 2011 we looked into hunting Botswana. I couldn't justify the cost. For $8000 we rented a landcruiser with camping gear and did a 14 day self drive instead. For 2014 we are going to Tanzania for 16 days, not on a $50000 safari but another self drive. Cost for that is less than $10000. I realize that I am comparing apples to oranges here. My point is not to critizize outfitters. If your camps are full and you are getting those prices. More power to you! I just do not see how this benefits hunting and wildlife in the long run. Full time professional trapper | |||
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I cannot speak for the US but it is a long time ago that I heard of soemone who booked a focused buffalo hunt in Tanzania in Germany. Wether justified or not there seems a kind of perception that c.USD 20k all-in is "too much" for a buffalo hunt. No matter in which country. Especially if the Euro currency is relatively weak. | |||
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You need to compare apples with apples mate - you cant compare 500-1000 for airport pickup with comparable car rental prices. It just doesn't work that way. You are hiring a car AND driver in a remote area - that comes at a cost. Same deal with daily rates... you are paying for an exclusive service - not a room in a tourist hotel with meals and drinks and a cheap tour thrown in!! A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Well, I hunted with Luke in Masailand last year (it was delayed due to my 09 hunt and then delayed again to hunt in the wet season). I spent about 40K on that hunt. Shot some nice buff, but not monsters. Not worth the 40K IMO, although I did get a Tommie and Grant's which I wanted. I must say I prefer the Selous or Kigosi to Masailand. In 10 I hunted moose in the Yukon; that hunt was discounted because the gubmint changed the caribou season to end before moose. I need another caribou like a hole in the head, so I scooped that hunt for 15K total all in. Shot a huge moose. You can do some really good hunts for 15K. Hell, you can hunt the res here for elk for 18K and I guarantee you are going to see huge bulls every day. | |||
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Here is something else to think about. Except for West Africa, safari pricing is usually based on the US$ (Most Game Departments set the fees in US $). The Euro is a roller coaster $1.20 to $1.60, averaging maybe $1.35. But, that is a huge change! Americans may account for the Lions share of the business in Africa, but when the Euro is strong, those guys hunt for less since fees are paid in US$. When our dollar collapses, will all the Southern and East African countries switch to the Euro? Probably. If not them, the outfitters will. If so, that will likely be the end of the American hunters coming to Africa. This is not going to be a minor factor either. At the rate your president is spending and borrowing and printing, it is more likely than not. | |||
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Trapper Tom:
Please expand on this - are you trying to tell us you are going to get a 16 day hunting safari in TZ for less than $10,000 or would that be a photo shoot figure? | |||
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Like he said, he's comparing apples to oranges. Maybe pointing out that there are other things to do in Africa except hunt??? Say it ain't so!  | |||
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IMHO Trapper Tom was simply stating that you could still go to Africa for a much reduced amount of cash. You would simply be tourist & not a safari hunter. I am not a very good tourist! Don't want to just go camping, heck I can do that in my back yard. I want to hunt & so far Africa is my favorite place to do that. Hopefully I will not be priced out. I went from every year to every other year, now may have to look at every 3 years, heck, the way this is going, I'll have to be checked out of the nursing home to go just 3 safaris from now. Between the idiocy of our present administration & the idiots in charge in Africa, shooting sparrows in my backyard with my Red Ryder may be all I can afford anyway. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Why the phuck would anybody want to go to Africa (south of the Equator) to do ANYTHING except hunt? I don't get it? USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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I am conducting some business meetings in April; as a lowly peddler hopefully I can sell my wares and write off my trip. The former might happen; the latter will. | |||
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But John, making money's different!Now making money AND hunting, man you should bottle that formula and when you get that G4, I'll gladly fly it for you-just for trophy fees! USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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I am a long way from a G4...better talk to Larry. Hell, we just upgraded our newest car...had been a 98 4 Runner. Now we have a 13 Corolla. Great on gas mileage! The WSJ had a story on renting luxury cars. Some guy said, "Successful business who live in a nice house and make 100k/year [like that means you can afford a 75K car] want to rent a nice car." Really? I remember when Hertz offered me a Jaguar for free as a loyalty gesture. I declined and opted for my econo car. The woman was stunned and asked why. "Ma'am," I said, "If I drove up to my customer location in a jag, they would think I was charging them too much money." | |||
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Trapper Tom is right on the mark. I just reduced my Safari cost by not taking my wife. $275/day observer rate and air fare to Zim would have costs us $5,300 for not much, so instead I am taking her to Hawaii for a week at a 5 star for under $4K, plus meals. There will be other losers, such as air charter. They are already too expensive. We will look for hunts with low transportation costs. I love hunting Africa, but I was a sheep hunter, elk hunter, whitetail fanatic before I became an African hunter. I have also taken 3 of the 4 bears. Some of those hunts became unrealisticly expensive, but are starting to look better and there are some I would like to do again. I, like many others, love all things hunting, not just Africa, and Africa will have to stand the test of comparison to other hunts. BUTCH C'est Tout Bon (It is all good) | |||
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Great minds think alike although I'm not in your league, I do drive a 2000 Silverado and I do have a CHERRY, last year of production (of the REAL Camaros) Z-28 in tht garage. After I retired and work for Lockeheed-Martin for a while, I always got to upgrade for free with Avis John next time you're in Jax, CALL ME! I owe you a dinner. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Jorge: I will be in JAX Feb 28-Mar 1; need to buy that ticket today. You in town? | |||
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Hi Gentlemen Just to clarify our buff hunts are costing $1050 more not $3000 more. Buff up from $3500 to $4550 which represents about a 10% increase to clients. The 300% increase is to operators. If we were to adjust accordingly and maintain the same profit levels which at the end of the day is essential to run a good outfit we would have to charge a whole lot more then $4550 per buff. At the present all operators are selling buffalo at COST with Zero profit. Hope that clears up a few misunderstandings there! Cheers Buzz | |||
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A 69? | |||
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My math sucks but that looks like a 30% increase on buffalo TF to clients. | |||
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You know, my wife has been telling me for over ten years that there are other places to see and visit besides Africa. This summer I had a great trip to Eastern Europe with some of the family, and the wife and I just returned from a wonderful tour to Israel. After ten safaris under my belt,(one in between the European tour and the Israeli tour) and with fiascos in African hunting happening nearly daily, I am beginning to take her words more seriously. Believe it or not, there is a cure for the African addiction, and part of that cure is happening through closures, ridiculous price increases and attitudes like "take it or leave it". Two more safaris for me in 2013 and 2014 and I'll be hanging up the Courtneys. | |||
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You need to compare apples with apples mate - you cant compare 500-1000 for airport pickup with comparable car rental prices. It just doesn't work that way. You are hiring a car AND driver in a remote area - that comes at a cost. Same deal with daily rates... you are paying for an exclusive service - not a room in a tourist hotel with meals and drinks and a cheap tour thrown in!! Some of those prices I am seeing are for pickup in Joburg and driven 3 hours north. Hardly a remote area. Also as wendell said I was simply making the point that there is a lot of competition out there for out disposable income. I don't take any joy from making this post or to start trouble. I would MUCH rather hunt, but everything has its limits and for me I am reaching it. Please expand on this - are you trying to tell us you are going to get a 16 day hunting safari in TZ for less than $10,000 or would that be a photo shoot figure? This would be a self driven, self guided photo shoot and camping trip. It sucks when you see a good trophy and can't shoot it, but it is awesome being on your own. Planning your own day and route is a different kind of adventure. In some ways it is better than hunting and in other ways it is not. Why the phuck would anybody want to go to Africa (south of the Equator) to do ANYTHING except hunt? I don't get it? Some people are looking for something different than being led around by a PH Full time professional trapper | |||
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Because apart from hunting there are the Matopos, Victoria Falls, Kruger National Park, Cape Town and best of all, Pretoria. | |||
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Tygersman: I think he is talking about a % of the total cost of the safari . | |||
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Ok here's a question. Lets say you are a man of some means hunting buffalo or elephant this year, do you swallow hard and pay the operator what the going rate "should" now be (with their standard profit on the trophy fee)? Also, compliments to the operators in Zim who are not requiring clients to absorb the total increase, even though their contracts likely state that "trophy fees are subject to change" (noting of course nobody expected something this outrageous). This speaks volumes of their character, and is exactly why so many of us support them to the extent that we do. Cheers guys! | |||
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I have a budget for trophy fees. I was simply going to cut out any & all PG if neccessary to meet my budget. But I was still going. Thankfully, my safari is in the Save & was not affected by the increase. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Bill C: I have told Buzz that I expect him to make his normal profits . I do not expect him to take a big hit because of the actions of some idiots. Does every client respond this way? I have no idea. I hate to see the operators take a big hit because of something they have no control over. | |||
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Some clarification please. A friend and I are going buffalo hunting in Mazunga this year. Sounds like these fee hikes don't apply to Save and I presume also Mazunga? | |||
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Somebody needs to email Champlins and let them know the description on Chapuis double rifles now needs editing from this: "We flat know this is one tough, attractive, high precision, go to Africa and and have money left for the second Buffalo type of gun." Unfortunately "and have money left for the second impala type of gun" doesn't have quite the same ring. | |||
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I think Moz and South Africa are going to benefit from this fee increase. A lot of seasoned safari guys might not be interested in hunting a buff in RSA on a large fenced tract of land...but a guy who wants his first buff and compares $18-20k hunts up north with an RSA or Moz hunt from $10-14k will most likely make the decision based on finances. There have been some postings in the outfitter section already this year for buff hunts all in for $10k (I have one and so does Charl) and those are looking like solid values about now. Combine the increased fee structures, country closings and the fact that some of the baby boomer generation are beginning to hang up the hunting boots and you have a real problem. This might get interesting before it all gets over with. How much more bad news can we take... Tom Addleman tom@dirtnapgear.com | |||
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+1 It ia Africa after all... | |||
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Before writing Zim off completely,consider saving a little longer. | |||
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I agree, however as soon as they get busy they will probably raise fees also and the cycle begins all over again. Hopefully I will be wrong, but this is what has happened is the past. Full time professional trapper | |||
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Some of you have mentioned the price elasticity of demand. Classically, it assumes that the volume is unlimited; in other words, if I have 100 widgets that I sell for $8 each, I make $800. If the cost to make them is $6, my profit is $200. But if I lower the price to $7, I might sell 200, and since i make more widgets, my fixed cost goes down per unit - let's say to $5.50. My profit per unit is $1.50 or $300 in total. Buffalo are not unlimited; there is a relatively fixed number. As long as Zim can increase the price and still sell all of their buffalo quota, why not increase the TF? Last year I increased the cost of our software that we sell as a service. Not one customer failed to renew. That tells me I may not be charging enough. | |||
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I dont think anyone is writing Zim off. I am not. I think we are looking at it from the stand point of value. At what point is a given trophy fee no longer worth it for that animal and that money better spent on something just as enjoyable and/or more affordable. Same thing could be said about rifles, houses, cars or whatever. If you can afford a fancy car or rifle and it floats your boat to carry a $30,000 double or drive a $75,000 car go for it but at some point you go over the top with regards to costs vs return. 30+ years experience tells me that perfection hit at .264. Others are adequate but anything before or after is wishful thinking. | |||
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