...dont want to start a new contest - just as an update...

http://www.clashradio.com/DVD/sullivan-video/

Oh, that won't start anything...

Kyler

"death with honor"

Honor among Hippos ???????

I was giving him the benefit of the dought but that statement is beyond assinine!!

Either he or his marketing department are idiots.

I guess it sells videos.

I dunno....

While I have never squeezed the trigger on DG (all PG hunting since my teens) I have spent quite a bit of time working, guiding and playing around dangerous game/big 5 (including two of my rafting clients getting attacked on the water by a hippo - thats another story!).

Having seen a few of his vids, I just feel uneasy about them, like its just too showy. Kind of like the 'Amazing Vegas Side Show' of hunting.

Guys I have worked with/for with substantial DG experience all seem to relate stories of many dead buff/ele/hippo with one or two shots and charges, while happening on rare occasions, are an exception (I think Saeed wrote he has yet to fully charged in over 100 buff?).

Sure, they have stories of 'narrow escapes' and wanting to wear their brown corduroys at times but its usually seems to be undertaken with less 'fanfare' than MS puts on most of the time. The same seems true for trail guiding, If I was severely charged everytime I guided a walking trail, back when I was, I would feel I was a doing something wrong and needed to sharpen up.

I have no-doubt the guy is crack shot with a double and knows anatomy but it just isn't for me! I feel much of it is done purposefully. The famous last charge in black death, I feel could have been prevented as soon as he walked up to the downed buff, with a bullet between the shoulder blades as it lay facing away from him. He seemed to wait purposefully for it to charge?

The blurb below his video, posted in this forum just seems like its dripping with cheeziness, get that feeling?


Some love it, I don't really get it.Perhaps I am wrong? Just my 0.02!
Cheers.

I did notice that MS is offering leathercraft products now.

Said he had to design and craft his shell carriers himself because none others were fit for use. Now he is making them available to us for a slightly premium price.

Wonder if each work of leather art is signed by MS, and where MS picked up his leathercraft skills? Does he do license plates too? Nitro Express vanity plates handstamped by MS could add to the bottom line too. (No offense meant to the fine folks at Galco and Murray. It's a joke.)

Riodot: Honor among hippos. That is rich.

So how many animals did he wound in that short film before he gave them "Honor".

I thought we all hope for a quick clean kill. Guess that SOB, likes to wound them first, and make there pain go on longer. I hope he misses one of these days and gets whats coming to him.

Overheard at Reno SCI, while I was in front of his booth. Spoken by a well traveled sportsman to Mark "The only one of your video's I'll ever buy is the last one!"

"The only one of your video's I'll ever buy is the last one"

PRICELESS!!!!!!

Regardless of what anyone may think about how the footage was obtained, it looks like there are some pretty good charges there.

Hi, I'm Mark Sullivan. I invite you to come and experience the wilds of Africa, it's people and its dangerous game. Feel the rush as you are charged by members of the famed "Big Five", and worship me as I shoot them for you. My tapes and other goods will be for sale upon your departure.

Good Shooting (Mine),

Mark "We'll Let The Animal Decide" Sullivan

P.S. If you wear your knife on the back of your belt, pointed straight down your ass crack, and sling your bino's across your chest, you are an instant member of the "God Complex" club.

WHAT A F@#KING TOOL!!!!!!!!!!

BOWHUNR

Ok OK so you disagree with the way the man hunts or shoots or kills or however you want to put it, but riddle me this... when the buffalo or hippo (often unwounded for the hippo) is within yards, running and Mark does not move his feet as he brains them and in some scenes you can see him readjust his grip on the gun while the animal is within just a few yards, there is no way you can tell me the man does not have a clarity that only a few could possibly understand or achieve. M<ost of us, and I put myself in the group too, would be shitting our pants closing our eyes, yanking the triogger and waiting for the impact, hoping to god our PH is a better shot than we are. Yes I understand most hunters and ph's would have killed the thing long before it got to this point, but for those few seconds, its all real, and a not so pleasant outcome is quite possible. He is a showman and quite full of himself, but his ability to get the job done at close quarters time and time again is impressive.

_BB

I don't know what is worse, hunting with Mark Sullivan or donating to PETA.

Both stand against everything I have imagined hunting to be.

While in the minority on this forum, I bought the DVD and look forward to watching it.

Saeed hit the nail on the head.

quote:

Originally posted by Tembo:
Saeed hit the nail on the head.

I'll second the motion! Motion carried!

It is guys like this retard that gives PETA fuel and support for their fight against hunting.

Thanks a F**king lot, a$$hole.

The only comfort is that if he keeps doing this, sooner or later the poor abused animal is going to kill him.

I just hope the dupe he has with him doesn't get it, too.

I'm waiting for him to purposely wound a leopard, then wade in.
I didn't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by Don_G:
The only comfort is that if he keeps doing this, sooner or later the poor abused animal is going to kill him.

I just hope the dupe he has with him doesn't get it, too.

I am afraid that is NOT likely to happen the way he operates.

Any time a buffalo he wounds on purpose goes into long grass, he wimps out and goes after it standing in the back of his truck!

Well, the best intentions..... Never hunted with Mark sullivan, but I know someone who has and on more than one occassion. He speaks highly of the man, to the point that he says is the hardest working, most motivated PH he's hunted with. Matter of fact, he's even on two of Mark's videos.

I'm not 100% on board with some of the tactics used in the video, but I understand the motives behind them, that is to SELL videos and that they have.

But here's my issue with some of the posts here. Unless you've hunted with the man, or have irrefutable, first hand knowledge of all the garbage and inuendos associated with his supposed "wounding tactics" I don't think it's fair t vilify the man in such fashion. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Ok OK so you disagree with the way the man hunts or shoots or kills or however you want to put it, but riddle me this... when the buffalo or hippo (often unwounded for the hippo) is within yards, running and Mark does not move his feet as he brains them and in some scenes you can see him readjust his grip on the gun while the animal is within just a few yards, there is no way you can tell me the man does not have a clarity that only a few could possibly understand or achieve. M<ost of us, and I put myself in the group too, would be shitting our pants closing our eyes, yanking the triogger and waiting for the impact, hoping to god our PH is a better shot than we are. Yes I understand most hunters and ph's would have killed the thing long before it got to this point, but for those few seconds, its all real, and a not so pleasant outcome is quite possible. He is a showman and quite full of himself, but his ability to get the job done at close quarters time and time again is impressive.

_BB

He wouldn't get into the fcking problems if he did not wound them in the first place. HE WOUNDS ANIMALS JUST TO GIVE THEM FCKING "HONOR". MS PISSES ME OFF.

I don't want to get good at having to deal with charging animals. Do you know why??

It's because I want to make my first shot perfect so they drop in there tracks or close to it.

quote:

if he did not wound them in the first place

Do you think he or his client makes the first shot?

So what? What difference does it make who took the first shot? No matter how or who caused an animal to become wounded, it does not excuse antagonizing that animal into a charge.

I can't believe that anyone here would or could condone the actions that are being conducted to provoke all of these charges, whatever these actions are. The facts are that someone IS doing something to provoke this many charges, and no matter what it is, it CANNOT BE RIGHT!!

If I found that I knew anyone or had a friend that supported this, I personnally would disassociate myself with them.

Saeed,

You may be right about MS using the bakkie in the long grass - I don't know.

I've just been around the world long enough to think that "what goes around comes around". Someday MS will reap what he sows. The details are not necessarily within my understanding.

jorge - Mark is either the most unluckiest PH in the history of hunting, or something else is afoot. I know several dangerous game PHs who take as many if not more buff each year than Mark does without a single "death at your feet" type of charge. This is because the client shoots unit the animal is dead. If you muff the first shot, you don’t wait around for a charge. You empty your magazine and invite your PH to participate if necessary. Of course, this hunting practice does not sell videos...

Money has corrupted the man...

quote:

Originally posted by Zero Drift:
Mark is either the most unluckiest PH in the history of hunting, or something else is afoot...

How does one go about getting enough charges (all professionally filmed) to fill several volumes of DVDs? I especially liked the sequence where MS was kicking dirt at the Hippo to prompt a charge.

Last fall I showed up in the Selous block (K4) that MS used the same day he left. Not being a fan of MS, I grilled the camp staff and got what I think to be honest answers. The short version is that they(tracker and game scout)had never seen MS deliberately wound an animal, but had seen him shoot his client's animals and provoke charges needlessly. After I got my buff, one of the staff commented that MS wouldn't have given it the Texas Heart shot that I did when following up, but would have circled to one side until the buff could see him. Great video would then follow. I find this childish and am vindictive enough to cheer for the buff. He'll get his eventually.

Interestingly, I've been in contact, via another forum, with some one who has booked a hunt with directly with MS. I was very cautious openning a dialogue and we ended up exchanging quite a few messages. Without saying "What are you doing you fool?!" I tried to raise a few red flags. By the end of the discussion, the hunter was confident he would be able to set the ethics for his safari and was comfortable hunting with MS (and understood what all the high sounding words MS uses really mean). Well, its his money and I don't think he could have gotten a refund at that stage away. What bothers me the most is that the hunt is booked for an unspecified Selous concession in JULY!! The client seems like a nice guy and I'm really worried his almost once in a lifetime hunt is going to be a disaster. When asked questions, I honestly tried to be helpful without peeing on his parade. I still wonder if I shouldn't have been more aggressive in stating my concerns. I guess, in the end it's none of my business, but I kind of like the guy, I know how much an African hunt means to him, and will bet that his first trip to Africa will not be what we all dream of.

Dean

quote:

So what? What difference does it make who took the first shot?

You suggested that Sullivan is having problems because you said he should not wound animals in the first place. Knowing that Sullivan is a PH and that it would likely be his clients that are likely shooting first and doing the wounding, I think it might just be significant to acknowledge who it is that is making the first shot. If we believe that Sullivan is shooting first and intentionally wounding animals, then I think what you wrote has credibility. "Do you think he or his client makes the first shot?" I think is a relative question if you are going to condemn Sullivan based on the issue of the initial shot being lousy.
Of course most people criticize Mark because he does not finish off wounded animals post haste, but it might be a bit judgmental to also blame him for poor shots at the start.
If there's anything that obviously deserves scrutiny, it is the comments routinely spoken by Sullivan in his videos where he tells his clients not to shoot until the charge has begun. The clients clearly are ready to take the animal down, but it is Sullivan who regularly says "Don't shoot!" until that made for television moment.

quote:

Originally posted by maki:
Interestingly, I've been in contact, via another forum, with some one who has booked a hunt with directly with MS. .... and will bet that his first trip to Africa will not be what we all dream of.

We have had two or three past clients of MS speak up and none of them have had negative experiences or safaris that they have not enjoyed.

I take note of first hand experience before anything else, especially hearsay and third hand gossip.

I can see this issue has a variety of opinions. For me it is not respectful. This is just grandstanding. Although there is an attempt to show respect for the animal, and "giving it a choice" I do not believe there really is any respect for the act of taking this animals life, the animal, or the heritage of the hunt. If we get enough videos like this out on the open market we just might be successful in getting hunting outlawed in the US. It is amazing what we can achieve when we are belligerent on an issue! To bad it is usually the opposite of what we set out to accomplish!

Seriously folks, I have hunted my whole life, and I was raised to respect the animal, the hunt, and the heritage that has allowed us to continue hunting. These videos have none of those qualities.

Sorry, but it is my own opinion, but as a wildlife biologist, I am very aware of what the anti-hunting crowd is keying in on, and it is exactly this unnecessary, belligerent, lack or respect that they will win with. Now that will piss me off!

DonG, yes I have seen the video of Mark and his client shooting out of the bakkie in the long grass...
I thought his videos were exciting and I thought all buf charged and more...Then I started inquiring about hunting Africa and asked the pertinant question??? How many charges did you face as a Ph??? A couple and 4or 5...Then I started wondering what is this guy doing???
I then put it all together and somthing was not kosher...Then in another video a hip shot buf and 4 guys walking up to it and it charges...
I said this before a great showman, and people like to watch animals charging and taken out up close...


Mike

I am of two minds on MS...

of the pro-MS... I think the way he hunts hippo has to be the most sporting way possible to take one, as compared to shooting them like turtles or standing just off "the way back to the water" from a cropper raider.. though the latter is pretty damn sporting.

Now, on the anti MS...
the first ele in the video was a turn to it's left away from taking him out... and the second one should have cost him his license... FOUR shots "beautiful shooting" he says, as the ele runs for the next county


But, then again, he underloads his rifles (700 and 600NE).. to something like 1600fps ...

Would I hunt with him? hell no.. if I wasn't being immediately tossed or was about to loose the animal from MY bad shooting, I wouldn't have a problem with a PH shooting my game... but to either shoot it first (say, mark, you realize YOU just bought that animal right?) or shoot it BEFORE I or the animal was indanger, I would end the safari RIGHT THERE, no more daily rate, not a prayer that I would pay the "remaining" daily rates, as *I* am the paying hunter, not MS

jeffe

We live in the media age and even in the last century, film of the hunt has inspired many to pursue the sport. But more often their use is technical not spiritual (yes, I think hunting is pretty damned spiritual).

Having said that, I have a hard time making movies of my hunts. A great action "still" can sometimes capture more of the moment than a hour of moving pictures. Like a haiku can sometimes speak more than a 1000 word essay.

I love videoing game and I love hunting but mixing the two just isn't my cup of tea. Peculiar, maybe but that's my take on it. Just call me "blonde".

Ahhhh Spring.

The crocus and cherries are blooming.

The air is fresh and the threads about Mark Sullivan are emerging.

Can Summer and cast bullets in a 45-70 for dangerous game be far behind?

-Steve

sierra bravo..

If you encountered a charge with a hippo or buff and came out better off, guess where you;d be the minute you got back... right here posting how you faced the charge and killed him mano a mano.

read my post again and understand I am talking about the brief moments when the animal charges, not the whole scenario. None of us truely knows how he gets in these situations but it is on tape how he gets out.

Also, watch the tape where the client accidentally fires upon closing the bolt standing next to the buff, and the other client who never fires the secdon barrel because he was shitting himself and forgot there were 2 triggers. If ot for mark, there may have been trouble.

I dont know MArk or anyone who has hunted with him, i bet fewer than a handful of us really do, until I hear first hand or huntn with him myself, I will share jorges sentiments fully.

_BB

First, I will say that I enjoy Sullivan's videos. They make for interesting viewing. That said, do I agree with his approach? Absolutely not.

The objective of a hunter is the most humane, quickest dispatch of the animal as possible. Walking up on a wounded animal and tempting the animal to charge as opposed to taking the first available opportunity to humanely dispatch the animal is simply wrong.

Second, when I go hunting I go to experience the hunt myself. I would have to say that in about 80% of the hunts featured in his video's he kills the client's animal for them. It is one thing to have the PH back up the hunter, this is not backing up the hunter.

For those that elect to hunt with Sullivan, my best wishes. I, however, believe that at a time when the sport of hunting is already under attack and subject to negative public opinion, his style of hunting plays right in the hands of the anti-hunters.

1st, We all hunt to ultimately kill an animal, else we would carry cameras. Correct it is how this is approached as to ascertain its 'morality' It is killing that provides the final chapter of a story, hopefully, well told. there are tons of passages and book sthat exemplify this.

2nd, dont be naive to think that anit-hunters or PETA give one rats ass about HOW we kill animals, charging, lying in the sun swapping flies, 100 yards, 2 yards away, it doesnt matter. We use these conditions to justify our actions to and amongst oursel;ves only. If they go after KFC for mis-treating chickens then you better damn well believe they abhor any form of hubnting. Even the hunting we consider ourselves to be 'ethical' 'moral' 'humane' or any other modifier you would prefer to add.

__BB

The point was one that is really pretty simple, the actions of individuals like Sullivan simply provide the fodder for those that would like to see all hunting outlawed to make their point to the general public that is largely uninformed or are on the margin. I understand the motivations of PETA and their ilk, what I resent is when fellow hunters provide them with examples which enable them to advance their cause. Why do you think gun control advocates focus on semi-auto assault rifles, because they understand that those are the weapons the general public has the least sympathy for. So let's attack those, and then building on our success in attacking those, we can take on other weapons . . . So why give them the ammunition (in the form of irresponsible hunting examples) to help them make their case to the public?

I have watched all of his vid's (exept the newest one) time and time again. In the vid's I have never seen him wound on purpose. He does get close afer an animal has been hit and provoke a charge.
Some get pissed because they belive he takes to long to finish off the buff, causing it to suffer. But most of the yappers are the same guys that shoot an animal and "give it 20 min" to die. What is worse? Waiting 2 min to circle and finish the animal off or waiting 20 min to let the thing die on it's own?

I think MS is a cocky man that is in love with himself, he shoots clients animals and puts on a big show. But I am sure if you hunted with him and told him not to shoot your buff he would respect that. In his vids lot of the guys he is with when provoking a charge or shooting thier animal he seems to know on a personal level and a few are in more than one vid.