Do you live in Zim? Do you know Nixon? Have you hunted with him? No offense but I can tell you for sure that your assurances are not persuasive. Just hearsay at this point.

Cheers

I wonder what tribe Nixon is part of and if the local tribe in Malapiti is different. Africa in many respects is still a tribal society. The Matabele and Shona still pretty much don’t get along....

From reading the Malapati thread it seems that the FZS bought out the Malapati safari area.The same people who collared the ele bulls.It seems that they are not our friends after all.

It is my understanding that Nixon and the locals are all Shona.

BTW, friends don’t fly over hunts in progress to harass hunters or move the elephants. Pretty hard to believe that antis are not at work here.

Now some are trying to tell us that this is all due to Nixon, but are unwilling to tell us why??

Why?

What has Nixon done to help this area being taken away from hunting?

Deafening silence, except for the crickets.....

"From reading the Malapati thread it seems that the FZS bought out the Malapati safari area.The same people who collared the ele bulls.It seems that they are not our friends after all.

Pretty hard to believe that antis are not at work here".

Wildlife research institutions and affiliated scientists are not genuinely on the hunter's side; they are masters at convincing the hunting community on the contrary to further their knowledge of the inner workings of the hunting industry and at the right time bite you in the ass!

Good luck to all of you who believe otherwise.

I would like to know how does some organization go about collaring an elephant bull? Do they need permission and if so from who? They don't own the bulls.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Deafening silence, except for the crickets.....

Not so fast.

I have heard several reports of all Sorts of not very nice things going on in that area.

Like elephants shot and wounded that run into the park, where they are recovered.

Some say the elephants are actually shot inside the park to start with.

Who do you believe??

Not 1 or 2 but several large tusked ele have been found dead from gunshot wounds where bullets were recovered revealing typical for a tourist-hunter but not poacher deep inside the boundaries of Gonarezhou. Recovery sites from others not so far across the Mwnezie into the park also found.

Many of the unrecovered were not taken off of quota.

The Malapati community dislikes Nixon from withholding funds from them.

The Malapati community wanted a change in operators. FZS helped broker a deal for a more reputable operator whom all would recognize. FZS did not really want to annex Malapati.

But, in the end, the community raised such a stink over Nixon and with the dead ele piling up in the park, they decided to pay the community what they wanted to put Malapati under its jurisdiction.

Malapati could have easily stayed a hunting concession with the blessing of FZ under different management. The deal was set up but Nixon mounted a legal battle that made it politically incorrect to award the concession the the new operator.

That is the truth, for those who want the truth.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Deafening silence, except for the crickets.....

Not so fast.

I have heard several reports of all Sorts of not very nice things going on in that area.

Like elephants shot and wounded that run into the park, where they are recovered.

Some say the elephants are actually shot inside the park to start with.

Who do you believe??

What are your sources?
I don't know the man but I think it is unfair to say these things about his business on a forum without naming the source of information.

It's all about "OPTICS" !

It does not matter who is right and who is wrong, what the motives are or what position we take the fact is we have lost the battle on this one !

In the eyes of the world at large these Elephant were "owned" they were given collars, cute names ... the "Cecils" of the elephant world.

Whether one has a right, legally or otherwise in the eyes of the world at large shooting something with a name or collar is immoral and the quicker we realize that if we want to win over hearts and minds to our side we will have to lay off shooting these particular animals....... I know the arguments of saying we are conceding and we are giving a finger but the fact is collectively we are not smart enough to counter the onslaught !

its like the anti gun issue running it's course now..... The youth ( look at them as future voters) have taken up the battle cry and they are getting free press on this. The NRA and I fully support them though I'm not American sadly has baggage and will have to rebrand and reload to counter the threat because they are not getting their message out to the youth !

I live outside the USA and sadly the press and opinion heard and spoken about by people at large are echoing the anti message, anti gun and anti hunting and our representative organizations are failing in their counter arguments !

I thought it was well-established in Zim that the hunting concessions provide a buffer around the parks keeping humans away, poaching to a minimum, and separating hunters from tourists (largely theoretical in the current situation) while maximizing revenue from the resource in a managed fashion? Also I thought it was well-established that shooting the oldest males has the least impact on populations while bringing the highest prices? Where is the Parks Dept on all of this? Or is this totally a Council decision?

Of course there will be wounded animals that are not recovered. This is sadly inevitable. But it should be miminal, and in any case irrelevant, the only difference being the meat and hide are lost (presumably the tusks are recovered).

So now I wonder what will the local community do for meat?

The fact that wounded Elephants have escaped back into the Parks to eventually die is not new news. That happens on every Park boundary.

I thought Nixon was straight shooter and he treated me right
Had him back me up on one jumbo as both of us were concerned about being close to boundary
He told me then, if elephant ends up in Park, we could petition Park Service and it would take some time to get decision.
Nomoney or reward was mentioned ever
Also he mentioned Malapati was under pressure from some anti hunters not to hunt it way back
Also, there was always some, who didn’t get meat and then complained as there is plenty of villages

My opinion, Hot button area and antis won

Zim parks signed off on the deal and the community is happy. Since this was campfire area, ultimately the community made the decision.

The community initially was going to award it to another outfitter. The deal was brokered, community happy, FZS happy, and Parks OK.

Nixon tied the move up in court.

Since the new operator would have been white, it became political. FZS decided to buy out Nixon's interest and keep it as a non-hunting area for now. When smoke clears, it could still revert back to a hunting concession. The community does not want Nixon there though.

But make no mistake, it was Nixon's fault it is not a hunting area today. Had he tried harder to get along or had he left peacefully and fully compensated, Malapati woulb continueas a safari area.

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:
Zim parks signed off on the deal and the community is happy. Since this was campfire area, ultimately the community made the decision.

The community initially was going to award it to another outfitter. The deal was brokered, community happy, FZS happy, and Parks OK.

Nixon tied the move up in court.

Since the new operator would have been white, it became political. FZS decided to buy out Nixon's interest and keep it as a non-hunting area for now. When smoke clears, it could still revert back to a hunting concession. The community does not want Nixon there though.

But make no mistake, it was Nixon's fault it is not a hunting area today. Had he tried harder to get along or had he left peacefully and fully compensated, Malapati woulb continueas a safari area.

Who were the whites taking over ?

Once upon a time in a faraway place called Malipati, a small boutique safari area, there was a humble hard working black man, named Nixon, who acquired the hunting rights to Malipati. After many years of hard work the population of large elephants and huge Cape buffalo in the adjacent National Parks began to cross into this small concession in large numbers. Nixon’s safari business grew and became prosperous. Nixon became famous for these large elephants and huge Cape buffalo.

Ah, but Nixon’s success did not go unnoticed. Eventually the evil cabal from the North, whose own concessions were not as successful, began to plant the seeds of discontent by offering the surrounding communities and the Park officials bribes and tales of more money. The Park officials liked Nixon but they worked for their uncle Bob who had not paid them in a long time, so the bribes and offers were well received.

The honest and hardworking Nixon got wind of this evil and fought with all his might against these corrupt people and the squabble continued as Nixon was successful in dislodging every attempt to take his business away. As a result of his efforts he angered the Park officials and the nearby Communities who only thought of the money.

In the shadows watching all this was a black hearted Leopard disguised as a Zoological Society. The Leopard noticing the chaos seized the moment to pounce in telling the Parks officials and the Communities that he the Leopard had a solution to these squabbles. The leopard would take over management of Malipati and pay them more while his only concern was for the wellbeing of the Elephants.

Alas, poor Nixon was dislodged from his prized possession. The evil cabal limped back to the North to their own concessions.

However, on the way home the evil cabal, in an effort to hide its involvement in this disaster, calls its friends in another continent called the USA. The evil cabal began to feed its friends in the USA a very large wildebeest intestine that they called the truth. They said that poor Nixon was so dumb that he shot himself in his own penis. They called that the unvarnished truth.

When the evil cabal got home they began to advertise ethical, no park boundary, no collars, Elephant hunts (which is Shona for you will walk your ass off for 10 days to shoot a 38 lb. Elephant), but it will be totally ethical.

So, you see, the evil cabal started all this shit and the law of unintended consequences took over.

Although a fairytale, this is probably much closer to the truth than what we have heard here.

Cheers,

Nice fairy tale....

I’m with you Butch
Anyone ever hunted with. Nixon, can’t say ever anything bad
Good upstanding guy, no bullshitter either
And I actually know who was suppose to get the concession, but can’t say as he is good friend
His wife is Zim and he is SA

Having read through these reports on the elephants with telemetry collars, it made me wonder, just how big and prominent are they, so I went looking. Here is a picture of an Indian elephant with one on. Indian elephants have much smaller ears than African Elephants, and you can only just see part of it behind his ears. If an African Elephant, it would seem the entire collar would be hidden and not be visible to the Ph/shooter. I really believe it is totally possible to have shot these two elephants without knowing they had the collars, until they were dead and walked up to

Tracking Collars for Elephants | Telonics Inc.
www.telonics.com/products/specialty/elephant.php

Elephant collars are constructed from heavy-duty ... Because of extreme conditions and the unpredictable nature associated with most telemetry applications, ...

Zimbabwe was the bastion of true professionalism, when they had law and order in place.

Once Uncle Bob took over, all bets were thrown out of the window.

Many Zimbabwe professionals still pride themselves on being true to the profession, and have not lost their pride and ethics.

Others, however, have been corrupted so badly, they no longer can tell the difference between what is right and what is wrong.

We are living in a different world today.

How many collared elephants have been shot in the past?

How much of a hoopla was made about it?

How about those who actually shot collared elephants in countries where it was illegal to do so?

I have stayed out of the fray so far but now have to speak up. Looks like FZS may not be our friends, after all. I hunted on Naivasha last year and the operator (yes, I realize the same one in question in this thread) indicated that Hugo is constantly approaching the communities trying to acquire rights to the adjacent safari areas to convert to non-consumptive. I realize that this is only one side of the story, but I think the linked thread speaks to FZS' true motives. Begno, looks like your fairy tail is not far off the mark.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...471003142#5471003142

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I’m with you Butch
Anyone ever hunted with. Nixon, can’t say ever anything bad
Good upstanding guy, no bullshitter either
And I actually know who was suppose to get the concession, but can’t say as he is good friend
His wife is Zim and he is SA

Mate,
Either you have your wires crossed or some one was blowing smke up your skirt.

The white oke that would have gotten Malipati had Nixon not kicked up dust, was Zimbabwean thru & thru.

The rest of you fellows, I am going to tell you that FZS is in Gonarezhou for the longhaul. They are easy for us to get along with. Not getting along with them is going bite you in the arse.

If you want to finish off hunting fight with them.

The truth is that they sugar-coated these last 2 opinions on the collard elies.

It was common knowledge to all in Naivasha that those eles were there and Yeatman had been contacted.

In fact, several PHs saw the first elie prior to it bing shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhScvZw9YDA


tysue,

Good video of a collared Kruger elephant.

I'm just gonna go hunt with Mark Sullivan - that way there's no controversy regarding my hunt!

Cow-trader, I ask this in all sincerity as I am seeking to learn here. How do you know that FZS is easy to get along with? Are you a ph/operator in Zim? Do you otherwise work with them?

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:
The rest of you fellows, I am going to tell you that FZS is in Gonarezhou for the longhaul. They are easy for us to get along with. Not getting along with them is going bite you in the arse.

If you want to finish off hunting fight with them.

The truth is that they sugar-coated these last 2 opinions on the collard elies.

It was common knowledge to all in Naivasha that those eles were there and Yeatman had been contacted.

In fact, several PHs saw the first elie prior to it bing shot.

First time that name has been revealed here. Nixson's former mentor.

I knew who it was. I have met Yeatman several times. He seems to have a lot of European clients.

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:
The rest of you fellows, I am going to tell you that FZS is in Gonarezhou for the longhaul. They are easy for us to get along with. Not getting along with them is going bite you in the arse.

If you want to finish off hunting fight with them.

The truth is that they sugar-coated these last 2 opinions on the collard elies.

It was common knowledge to all in Naivasha that those eles were there and Yeatman had been contacted.

In fact, several PHs saw the first elie prior to it bing shot.

Their statements could have been a hell of a lot worse. A whole hell of a lot worse.

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I’m with you Butch
Anyone ever hunted with. Nixon, can’t say ever anything bad
Good upstanding guy, no bullshitter either
And I actually know who was suppose to get the concession, but can’t say as he is good friend
His wife is Zim and he is SA

Mate,
Either you have your wires crossed or some one was blowing smke up your skirt.

The white oke that would have gotten Malipati had Nixon not kicked up dust, was Zimbabwean thru & thru.

That’s what my friend told me in Vegas at SCI show and yes, he maybe wasnt all shoo in but then who are you to know it all ?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:
The rest of you fellows, I am going to tell you that FZS is in Gonarezhou for the longhaul. They are easy for us to get along with. Not getting along with them is going bite you in the arse.

If you want to finish off hunting fight with them.

The truth is that they sugar-coated these last 2 opinions on the collard elies.

It was common knowledge to all in Naivasha that those eles were there and Yeatman had been contacted.

In fact, several PHs saw the first elie prior to it bing shot.

First time that name has been revealed here. Nixson's former mentor.

Me and Nixon caught Yetman’s PH red handed with dead buff way in his area when we were checking lion bait and their excuse was, they were tracking it wounded, which then our trackers disputed it.
Nixon stayed pretty cool throughout that ordeal.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by cow-trader:
The rest of you fellows, I am going to tell you that FZS is in Gonarezhou for the longhaul. They are easy for us to get along with. Not getting along with them is going bite you in the arse.

If you want to finish off hunting fight with them.

The truth is that they sugar-coated these last 2 opinions on the collard elies.

It was common knowledge to all in Naivasha that those eles were there and Yeatman had been contacted.

In fact, several PHs saw the first elie prior to it bing shot.

Their statements could have been a hell of a lot worse. A whole hell of a lot worse.

I agree. Again, based on the facts that we know, I find very little to be critical of the FZS over in terms of how they have handled not just these two incidents but the entire collaring, tracking and coordinating with the hunting community program.

Hunters cannot keep flipping off the scientific community and non consumptive land use model.

FZS has tried to find a common ground in Zimbabwe. They have been met with greed and stupidity on the part of this Outfitter.

If hunting comes to an end our failure to identify and refrain from bad acts and actors will be the cause.

I said it at least four times and will say it until Saeed bans me, if all hunting is about is the biggest, largest bag you can buy then hunting should end.

quote:

if all hunting is about is the biggest, largest bag you can buy then hunting should end.

Unfortunately, too many folks that claim to be hunters have that attitudfe and if it does not change, it ultimately will bring an end to hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

if all hunting is about is the biggest, largest bag you can buy then hunting should end.

Unfortunately, too many folks that claim to be hunters have that attitudfe and if it does not change, it ultimately will bring an end to hunting.

And what will happen to SCI and their sick “inner circles” then?

quote:

And what will happen to SCI and their sick “inner circles” then?

Will it really matter?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

And what will happen to SCI and their sick “inner circles” then?

Will it really matter?

SCI singlehanded, created the competitive hunt.

BIG IS BETTER.

MINE IS BIGGER THAN YOURS.

They took it to new heights, and we are all suffering the consequences!

The real enemy are people who want to shut down and take over hunting areas.There has always been hunters who have stepped out of line and there will always be.