All the hunting shows are getting into a bad habit of purposely showing this at the time to shoot. All the ph's I've had wanted my gun ready to fire when we started getting close to the quarry; just keep your finger out of the trigger guard. Are they doing this to stop bad press?

I don't put too much weight on anything I see in most of these hunting shows. I never knew so many people were terrible at hunting until I started watching the outdoor channel :thumb down:

Hey..300 posts. Just short of a decade!...Alright

who watches hunting shows?

To me, the safety comes of in the same motion as the rifle is raised to the shoulder. It's instinctive. Thus, the safety can stay on, and should stay on, up to that point.

I agree that on many of the shows they drag out the hunter finding the animal in the scope -- and taking forever to do so -- then finally remembering that he/she has to take the rifle off safe, then, taking an inordinate amount of time to re-find the animal in the scope, before beginning the trigger pull -- Break to commercial. All staged after the fact for supposed dramatic effect.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
To me, the safety comes of in the same motion as the rifle is raised to the shoulder. It's instinctive. Thus, the safety can stay on, and should stay on, up to that point.

I agree that on many of the shows they drag out the hunter finding the animal in the scope -- and taking forever to do so -- then finally remembering that he/she has to take the rifle off safe, then, taking an inordinate amount of time to re-find the animal in the scope, before beginning the trigger pull -- Break to commercial. All staged after the fact for supposed dramatic effect.

We seem to do the same thing.

I chamber a round as soon as we leave the truck, and put the safety on.

Depending on what is actually happening and what we are going to shoot. Most of the times the safety comes off after I have the rifle on the shooting sticks.

Or if I am taking an off hand shot the safety comes off as the rifle is being shouldered.

If we are following a wounded animal, and get very close in the bush, I have my thumb on the safety ready to push forward as the rifles comes up.

Saeed,

Exactly the way I do it, except I might have been known to take the rifle off safe as I was placing it on the sticks. Only time that proved to be a bad plan was when the sticks fell apart facing a buffalo. Rather hilarious routine with a tracker trying to put the sticks together and a very curious buffalo bull trying to figure out what in the hell was going on.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
To me, the safety comes of in the same motion as the rifle is raised to the shoulder. It's instinctive. Thus, the safety can stay on, and should stay on, up to that point.

I agree that on many of the shows they drag out the hunter finding the animal in the scope -- and taking forever to do so -- then finally remembering that he/she has to take the rifle off safe, then, taking an inordinate amount of time to re-find the animal in the scope, before beginning the trigger pull -- Break to commercial. All staged after the fact for supposed dramatic effect.

We seem to do the same thing.

I chamber a round as soon as we leave the truck, and put the safety on.

Depending on what is actually happening and what we are going to shoot. Most of the times the safety comes off after I have the rifle on the shooting sticks.

Or if I am taking an off hand shot the safety comes off as the rifle is being shouldered.

If we are following a wounded animal, and get very close in the bush, I have my thumb on the safety ready to push forward as the rifles comes up.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
To me, the safety comes of in the same motion as the rifle is raised to the shoulder. It's instinctive. Thus, the safety can stay on, and should stay on, up to that point.

I agree that on many of the shows they drag out the hunter finding the animal in the scope -- and taking forever to do so -- then finally remembering that he/she has to take the rifle off safe, then, taking an inordinate amount of time to re-find the animal in the scope, before beginning the trigger pull -- Break to commercial. All staged after the fact for supposed dramatic effect.

We seem to do the same thing.

I chamber a round as soon as we leave the truck, and put the safety on.

Depending on what is actually happening and what we are going to shoot. Most of the times the safety comes off after I have the rifle on the shooting sticks.

Or if I am taking an off hand shot the safety comes off as the rifle is being shouldered.

If we are following a wounded animal, and get very close in the bush, I have my thumb on the safety ready to push forward as the rifles comes up.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
To me, the safety comes of in the same motion as the rifle is raised to the shoulder. It's instinctive. Thus, the safety can stay on, and should stay on, up to that point.

I agree that on many of the shows they drag out the hunter finding the animal in the scope -- and taking forever to do so -- then finally remembering that he/she has to take the rifle off safe, then, taking an inordinate amount of time to re-find the animal in the scope, before beginning the trigger pull -- Break to commercial. All staged after the fact for supposed dramatic effect.

We seem to do the same thing.

I chamber a round as soon as we leave the truck, and put the safety on.

Depending on what is actually happening and what we are going to shoot. Most of the times the safety comes off after I have the rifle on the shooting sticks.

Or if I am taking an off hand shot the safety comes off as the rifle is being shouldered.

If we are following a wounded animal, and get very close in the bush, I have my thumb on the safety ready to push forward as the rifles comes up.

Exactly

Yes sir!

quote:

If we are following a wounded animal, and get very close in the bush, I have my thumb on the safety ready to push forward as the rifles comes up.

Especially if you were to have 1 or 2 persons in front of you.

I keep the safety on until just before pulling the trigger. Safety always is top priority!!

This is something else that needs to be addressed with your PH before you start hunting. He may have a different idea but those that I have hunted with did as Saeed said. Out of the truck, one in the chamber and safety on. Safety comes off as the rifle is put on the sticks or comes to the shoulder. Safety on when the rifle comes down. Chamber is empty when getting back on the truck.

Well I would have to say that Africa is a tad different than other places, or at least some of it is. You can run into something big and nasty and a second or two can make a difference.

Here in North America, it has been a common practice to have hunters carry their rifles with shells in the magazine, but none in the chamber, until told to chamber a round by the guide. That is still common and in truth is what I do when I am guiding for most animals, except when hunting dangerous game in places where we may have something pop up unexpectedly.

The above is referring to when we are out walking around hunting. In most Canadian jurisdictions, unlike some states in the US and in many parts of Africa, you are not allowed to have any shells in a firearm when in a vehicle, not even the magazine........ and that applies to when you are riding on an ATV or a snowmobile as well.

Sadly, I have had many experiences with poor gun handling by clients over the years and it has made me view them as the most likely source of a mishap. I would be more likely to accidentally get shot by a client than get chewed on by a bear.

Just a couple of seasons past I had a hunter load his rifle when we had exited the vehicle and were getting ready to head into the bush. While loading it he managed to put a round in the chamber and then pulled the trigger to check it??!!! It went off and just missed putting a hole in my SUV by about 6 inches. Would I want a guy like that walking behind me with one up the spout and the safety on?? Maybe not. And sadly, that is not the first or last time I will see poor gun handling I am afraid.

I wish I could trust everyone, but that is not the case with new clients. When you have old clients that you know have a routine safe method of handling firearms you can be a little more relaxed, but from my experience it is few and far between. Even though I tell all my clients that we cannot carry a loaded firearm on an ATV I would say that at least 70% still try and get away with having shells in the magazine. Sad but true.

Skyline....
Nah, sorry. Saeed stated perfectly/exactly what most hunters do, which is perfectly safe gun handling.
Most chamber a round while in the field.
These shows often show people manually chamber a round, not simply by working the action, but physically loading a single bullet....
It's not real life.....which is correct in the post here.

If I am on the animal...safety comes off in preparation. Finger outside the trigger guard until it's time to close the deal....

I personally would be LESS inclined to "listen" in the field to a North American guide if they did instruct me otherwise, as many might be inclined to either:
1) As you say,be used to dealing for some reason with non-seasoned, non-serious hunters...which should be sized up prior anyway and;
2) the guides themselves are far more likely to be non "true professionals" to begin with that are glorified Country Boys that know the land.

If you are unprepared for success, you will fail by definition.....
Hunting happens very quickly often...which requires proper preparation by those most successful...meaning...I'm locked and loaded in the field.

quote:

Originally posted by Poyntman:
Skyline....
Nah, sorry. Saeed stated perfectly/exactly what most hunters do, which is perfectly safe gun handling.
Most chamber a round while in the field.
These shows often show people manually chamber a round, not simply by working the action, but physically loading a single bullet....
It's not real life.....which is correct in the post here.

If I am on the animal...safety comes off in preparation. Finger outside the trigger guard until it's time to close the deal....

I personally would be LESS inclined to "listen" in the field to a North American guide if they did instruct me otherwise, as many might be inclined to either:
1) As you say,be used to dealing for some reason with non-seasoned, non-serious hunters...which should be sized up prior anyway and;
2) the guides themselves are far more likely to be non "true professionals" to begin with that are glorified Country Boys that know the land.

If you are unprepared for success, you will fail by definition.....
Hunting happens very quickly often...which requires proper preparation by those most successful...meaning...I'm locked and loaded in the field.

Not quite sure how to take your post Poyntman.

Are you saying I do not know what I am doing and my hunters do and that hunters should ignore what their guides tell them?

Are you saying that the laws preventing loaded rifles on vehicle can be bypassed if the hunters think they are better than that?

Are you saying that I am not a professional? That guides and outfitters in North America as a whole are just a bunch of country bumpkins to ridiculed and ignored?

Are you being tongue in cheek?

It is the internet. I wanted to get a response to these questions before I reply to you last post.

No sir,
Sorry..absolutely no offense intended to you personally.
1) I would not say or think anything negative about you personally....I mean no disrespect to you whatsoever.
2) I CERTAINLY did not comment on a loaded gun in a vehicle in violation of either a law or gun safety...I totally agree with you on that....
I will, however as a rule, have a round in the chamber in the field...which is what I commented on.
I did mean too, not reflective of you...(and understanding guides sometimes or often deal witness knucklehead clients) that myself and many others might less inclined to blindly listen to or disagree with "non professionals" sometimes...I am loaded in the field... Period...and safely..

The inference is simply and honestly that we may sometimes in North America deal with "guides" vs "PH's" and that I might be less inclined to simply listen to a glorified Boy Scout we've all seen in camp at one time or another...

The term "guide" here can be a very loose term!!! There is not a professional license or true regimen affiliated
Absolutely no personal inference but I also don't need some potential Dumbass with Tasco binoculars and a lighter in his pocket for campfires (that I'm paying for) telling me what to do, when i know i am being 100% safe.

Skyline:

I do typically carry rounds in the magazine on the vehicle, where legal. Like Saeed, I chamber a round, add a round to the magazine, (and quickly drink a pint of water) the second I step off of the vehicle. If the country is open, the rifle is slung, muzzle up, on my right shoulder. If the cover gets tight, I carry it across my chest (almost verticle), cradled in my left arm, with my left hand covering the action (and thus the safety and trigger). Again, barrel pointing up. This puts the barrel low, not much if any above your shoulder so it won't snag on brush.

That's the safest way I can devise. The muzzle is always pointed in a safe direction, even when negotiating thick cover, your hand prevents brush from inadvertently taking the rifle off safe or pulling the trigger, and, it can be easily and quickly deployed. Long years of practice on this.

The safety is the main reason I prefer using a 1917 Enfield. Anyone with much experience can see it's on safe and it's damned hard to knock it off safe regardless of what you do. I never have had it knocked off safe yet.

Chamber empty: in vehicles and horseback. Once it's in my hands starting to hunt it's chamber loaded safety on.
Really easy to flick it off safe on the way to the shoulder for a shot. SO far in 60+ yrs I've had two discharges. Both when shouldering a hammer type shotguns and thumb slipped off the hammer cocking on the way to the shoulder. Both went off in the air where it was going to be fired anyway. just a long way from the ducks!

I've recently painted the area under the safety lever red on the '17's so it's obvious to anyone taking a look.
George

On my first trip to Africa 16 years ago, as we got off the land cruiser the young PH said to chamber a round and put it on safe. I declined, saying I had a lot of experience with both hunting and with that rifle and had never yet missed a shot opportunity because I was too slow in chambering a round before the animal ran away. He replied "you know, H T, sometimes when they're running, it's not away from you".

After very briefly considering that, I chambered one and put the safety on, and have ever since !

In North America, unless in grizzly country, I carry an empty chamber unless I'm already sitting down and glassing. Just don't need one in the chamber, sets a good example for others, and removes one point of concern.

I disagree about having to put one in the chamber just before getting ready to shoot. I'm ready when I start hunting. muzzle direction is the on;y true gun safety You should be aware of you muzzle at all times.

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
To me, the safety comes of in the same motion as the rifle is raised to the shoulder. It's instinctive. Thus, the safety can stay on, and should stay on, up to that point.

I agree that on many of the shows they drag out the hunter finding the animal in the scope -- and taking forever to do so -- then finally remembering that he/she has to take the rifle off safe, then, taking an inordinate amount of time to re-find the animal in the scope, before beginning the trigger pull -- Break to commercial. All staged after the fact for supposed dramatic effect.

We seem to do the same thing.

I chamber a round as soon as we leave the truck, and put the safety on.

Depending on what is actually happening and what we are going to shoot. Most of the times the safety comes off after I have the rifle on the shooting sticks.

Or if I am taking an off hand shot the safety comes off as the rifle is being shouldered.

If we are following a wounded animal, and get very close in the bush, I have my thumb on the safety ready to push forward as the rifles comes up.

+1

+2

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
To me, the safety comes of in the same motion as the rifle is raised to the shoulder. It's instinctive.
Thus, the safety can stay on, and should stay on, up to that point....

We seem to do the same thing....

So you guys by regular habit rely/trust a mechanical devise for your gun safe handling practices?

Point ONE: IF you do trust your safety device you are a fool,
Point TWO: IF you honestly don't trust it,.. then why so much emphasis/importance on it?

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
I keep the safety on until just before pulling the trigger, Safety always is top priority!!

Indeed it should be top priority,... but ones safety device is NOT to be trusted to unsure nothing bad happens.

I have seen it on some TV episodes where someone actually says his PH would not allow anyone to have a loaded rifle being carried.

Apparently when one is ready for a shot, one chambers a round and fires it!!

I just wonder what sort of experience in the real world has this sort of PH has??

SAEED,

-do you trust your rifles safety device?

-do you think its "proper" gun handling practice for anyone to trust such a thing?

.....Africa is not some specially exempted alternate universe when it comes to responsible gun safety measures.
A number of inept clients who have shot their PHs can attest to that.

Talk to huntings guides in USA,Oz,NZ, Africa,etc.. and they can all tell how lapsed-careless, unsafe and ignorant clients often are.

"Trust" is relative and subjective. Do I trust the safety enough to carry my rifle on safe with a round in the chamber? My personal answer is to that is a clear yes. Do I trust the safety enough to ignore muzzle awareness and other gun handling practices when the safety is on? Definitely not!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JV:
"Trust" is relative and subjective. Do I trust the safety enough to carry my rifle on safe with a round in the chamber? My personal answer is to that is a clear yes. Do I trust the safety enough to ignore muzzle awareness and other gun handling practices when the safety is on? Definitely not![/QUOTE

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
To me, the safety comes of in the same motion as the rifle is raised to the shoulder. It's instinctive. Thus, the safety can stay on, and should stay on, up to that point.

I agree that on many of the shows they drag out the hunter finding the animal in the scope -- and taking forever to do so -- then finally remembering that he/she has to take the rifle off safe, then, taking an inordinate amount of time to re-find the animal in the scope, before beginning the trigger pull -- Break to commercial. All staged after the fact for supposed dramatic effect.

We seem to do the same thing.

I chamber a round as soon as we leave the truck, and put the safety on.

Depending on what is actually happening and what we are going to shoot. Most of the times the safety comes off after I have the rifle on the shooting sticks.

Or if I am taking an off hand shot the safety comes off as the rifle is being shouldered.

If we are following a wounded animal, and get very close in the bush, I have my thumb on the safety ready to push forward as the rifles comes up.

+1

Plus another one! The above is the way I was taught as a child of six years of age!

.....................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by JV:
"Trust" is relative and subjective. Do I trust the safety enough to carry my rifle on safe with a round in the chamber? My personal answer is to that is a clear yes. Do I trust the safety enough to ignore muzzle awareness and other gun handling practices when the safety is on? Definitely not!

There in is the key to firearm safety in the field. As long as the muzzle or muzzles are not pointed at anyone the "safety" is just one more hedge against injuring someone with an accidental discharge! Nothing made by man or nature is 100% reliable, so the hunter's best SAFTEY is his/her MIND!
...................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Nothing made by man or nature is 100% reliable, so the hunter's best SAFTEY is his/her MIND!

Yet even mans MIND is often proven unreliable,
so people who decide to even partially rely/trust safety levers, have lulled themselves into a dangerous false sense of security/gun safety.

Thats why it is Drummed into people that:

-Every rifle should be treated exactly the same REGARDLESS of whether its totally empty,or loaded, or safety lever is oN or oFF.

One basis rule of gun safety is: NEVER rely/trust your firearms Safety mechanism.
yet Its apparent that some people admittedly choose to ignore that rule.

Our first day out in Zim and we walk into the blind for hyena. When we get into the blind my brother whispers to Gibbo "Should I chamber a round now?" Gibbo looks at him and, in that half-deaf PH whisper says "We load at the truck!"

Never made that mistake again. It's nice when your little brother can break trail through the embarrassing stuff for you!

I really, really dislike carrying a rifle with a round in the chamber and safety on. But in Africa it's the only viable way to hunt.

When I get back to the truck, I clear the rifle, visually check the chamber and dry fire the rifle in a safe direction so the PH knows for certain the rifle is cleared.

In Oz, I only chamber a round as I'm about to shoot, if the shot is not made I eject the round.

This is one of those "hot-button" topics that stirs folks up. Over on another site I frequent (24HourCampfire), carrying a round in the chamber and "on safe" will bet you burned in effigy. Personally, that is the way I hunt. I load at the truck, safety on and move forward and when in company of others, ALWAYS perform muzzle awareness.

This is basic firearms safety. And how most(hopefully all) people that carry/handle guns professionally do it. But looking at videos and seeing in person firearm safety seems to be an ambiguous theory. Whenever someone get shot in the field the issue is hammered home for me. Should never happen

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
This is one of those "hot-button" topics that stirs folks up. Over on another site I frequent (24HourCampfire), carrying a round in the chamber and "on safe" will bet you burned in effigy. Personally, that is the way I hunt. I load at the truck, safety on and move forward and when in company of others, ALWAYS perform muzzle awareness.

+1

This is exactly how we do it. Load at the truck, safety on and proceed. Muzzle awareness is paramount! We tend to hunt in the thicker stuff, and trying to load after the game has been spotted will pretty well guarantee that you will get very few shots off!

I almost always carry rifle chambered and locked and practice safe muzzle control. One thing that I've noticed in Africa is that trackers seem to lack the self preservation instinct to not walk in front of a muzzle. Whether it's that it doesn't occur to them, they don't care, they are so fatalistic that they believe they won't die before its time or they have so much confidence in people they don't know I don't know but I'll swear it's like some are actively trying to get shot. Carrying on a sling goes a long ways to stopping the shivers from running up and down my spine.

For mountain hunting and rough stuff where the rifle alternates between being inconvenient baggage, a walking stick, canoe paddle and rain gauge I revert to the local tradition and carry with an empty chamber. Same thing for camp and work-site rifles that are left with a empty chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by BigUglyMan:
Our first day out in Zim and we walk into the blind for hyena. When we get into the blind my brother whispers to Gibbo "Should I chamber a round now?" Gibbo looks at him and, in that half-deaf PH whisper says "We load at the truck!"

Never made that mistake again. It's nice when your little brother can break trail through the embarrassing stuff for you!

What a great anecdote!! Thanks for posting it...

Just wondering if some of the folks that advocate never carrying one in the chamber ever hunt birds? I'd like to see how many quail they bag chambering a round when the covey flushes! You rely on your shotgun's safety but not the safety on your rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
Just wondering if some of the folks that advocate never carrying one in the chamber ever hunt birds? I'd like to see how many quail they bag chambering a round when the covey flushes! You rely on your shotgun's safety but not the safety on your rifle?

Exactly...so when pheasant hunting, I should hold the cartridges in my hand and only load the shotgun after they flush? Wonder how many birds I would get that way!

What jorge says.