I've only been on two safairs to Africa. Both my PH's in Namibia and South Africa wanted me to load my rifle as soon as we started walking, but I refuse to do so. The one in Germany seemed relieved when I told him I would load a round when I had a target. The one in SA argued with me, and I told him I wasn't going to do it his way. It is 100% impossible to have an accidental discharge if there is nothing in the barrel. If I don't have enough time to load a round when I see the animal, then I wont have enough time to aim either.

Originally Posted by Mac

There in is the key to firearm safety in the field. As long as the muzzle or muzzles are not pointed at anyone the "safety" is just one more hedge against injuring someone with an accidental discharge! Nothing made by man or nature is 100% reliable, so the hunter's best SAFTEY is his/her MIND!

quote:

Originally posted by EddieWalker:
I've only been on two safairs to Africa. Both my PH's in Namibia and South Africa wanted me to load my rifle as soon as we started walking, but I refuse to do so. The one in Germany seemed relieved when I told him I would load a round when I had a target. The one in SA argued with me, and I told him I wasn't going to do it his way. It is 100% impossible to have an accidental discharge if there is nothing in the barrel. If I don't have enough time to load a round when I see the animal, then I wont have enough time to aim either.

That isn't true. Aiming is fast, and after you rack that bolt the game will be running anyway.

I guess you could make a lot of noise loading a round, but if you try, you can also do it slowly and quietly once you get into position. I've never missed out on a trophy because I scared it away from the sound of loading a round, or I was too slow in getting a round in the chamber before it took off.

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We seem to do the same thing.

I chamber a round as soon as we leave the truck, and put the safety on.

Depending on what is actually happening and what we are going to shoot.

Most of the times the safety comes off after I have the rifle on the shooting sticks.

Or if I am taking an off hand shot the safety comes off as the rifle is being shouldered.

If we are following a wounded animal, and get very close in the bush, I have my thumb on the safety ready to push forward as the rifles comes up.

Add One

Trax, are any of your rifles equipped with a safety? If so, so you ever use this device? If you use the safety, would you please describe why you choose to do so? Just trying to understand your position on the issue. Thanks.

My rifles have a safety device cause the law requires it. ..But I am not legally obligated to use it- or in anyway rely on it.

Anyone who is putting trust in their rifles safety device, is ignoring a basic gun safety rule.

so ( for me) it comes back to the points I made in my earlier post;

1./ if one trusts a safety device they are a fool,
2./ if one don't really trust it, then why is one stressing the regular habitual use/importance of it?

IF someone kept sweeping me with their muzzle, them having the safety ON, does not in anyway comfort me.
WHY?...
cause being that careless with their muzzle dicipline, they can also in a lapsed moment, easily become
rather carless-forgetful about a safety lever and trigger.

-- Since they cant even properly manage the Muzzle, why would i trust them to more complexly
manage muzzle,safety lever and trigger?

I don't have full confidence in my rifle's safety. Even with the safety on, I treat the rifle as if it isn't on. But I do use it all the time. It adds a little safety if the rifle is dropped and also adds some safety if a twig rubs hard enough against the trigger to fire the rifle. I also use the safety in the same way on my shotgun when bird hunting. I also load my chamber or chambers immediately after exiting the vehicle whether in Africa or hunting near home.

465H&H

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I also use the safety in the same way on my shotgun when bird hunting.

Thank You. That is how I learned to use the safety on ALL my guns, center-fire/rim-fire/shotgun.

One of if not my most favorite rifle is a Tang Safety Model 77 Ruger in .35 Whelen. Bringing that rifle to my shoulder reminds me so much of various shotguns I have owned and used over the years.

The gun comes to the shoulder/cheek and the thumb falls right on to the safety catch.

Trax, I didn't ask whether you were legally obligated to use your safety, I asked whether you actually use it. Do you have an answer?

NO, I don't use them.

Trax:
I for one would never hunt with you just for that reason even if there was ever a chance to do so.

In '97 I was invited to join a friend in an elk camp where the old man guide left a shell in the chamber all the time and just let the firing pin down even inside the tent. I left the next morning quick as I could even before breakfast!! I tried to point out to him and my friend it's against the law to have one in the chamber in a vehicle and damned unsafe in camp too. He argued that he'd done it that for 75 years and damned if he was going to change.

Dogleg:
I've looked at more muzzles hung on shoulders by slings than any other way. Most guys don't pay any attention how the gun tilts when carried that way so they're stuck in anyone's face that is following.

The best examples I've seen have been watching Saeed's vid's and seeing both his PH's holding onto the butt to make sure the muzzles are straight up. That impressed me!

When I first started elk hunting I had a sling on my rifle. Saw a nice bull thru some scrub quakies and started to make a stalk where I could shoot from. I wasn't used to a sling then and hooked it on a snag and down I went on my ass. The bull took off of course, and the sling went into the brush. I assume it's still there 60 years later. I only have studs on my rifles forearms for bipods, never a sling since.

When my knuckles start dragging the ground I change hands!! With this new rifle that's 14lbs 7 oz that change will happen much sooner I'm sure.

George

George that didn't happen over around Grand Mesa did it?

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Originally posted by georgeld:
Trax:
I for one would never hunt with you just for that reason even if there was ever a chance to do so.

and if you are the kind of person who habitually trusts their guns safety device, I would avoid you like the plague.

Now bear in mind, I will stalk game with the bolt handle up, bringing it down
to cock the firing pin as Im about take the shot,
...bUT I will NOT use/trust a rifles mechanical safety device
to prevent [what is a live-activated state firing pin], from striking a primer.

quote:

Originally posted by Trax:
NO, I don't use them.

A rifle's mechanical safety is a slice of Swiss cheese: Risk Management

I habitually trust safe gun handling procedures, which include the use of a mechanical safety, but anyone who would intentionally remove a slice of cheese is just as foolish as someone who you trust only one slice.

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Originally posted by Trax:
Now bear in mind, I will stalk game with the bolt handle up...

I take it to the next level with my Cool Hand Luke guard approach: I stalk game in mirrored Ray Ban sunglasses with the rifle's bolt in my pocket. When I am ready to take a shot I summon my porter who scurries over with the rifle, I drop one in the chamber, then take the bolt out of my pocket, close the action and take the shot. I have found this to be the safest method.

Observations from the field have shown me time and again that a large proportion of people wandering around the bush with a rifle have very poor muzzle awareness, and very sloppy safety procedures.

I have stared down the barrel of a gun many more times than I'd have really liked to, the worst offenders being the sling crowd. I also have found rifles with safety off leaned against a tree after a stalk, loaded rifles on the vehicle, chambered rounds with the bolt closed on an uncocked firing pin (the tip of the firing pin is now resting directly on the primer, wanna see what happens if it falls on a rock?), and other niceties.

If a round is in the chamber, one has to have total muzzle control - which is almost impossible to achieve 100% of the time, so you better have a good safety and make sure that it's on. One can fall, branches can snag a trigger (people got killed that way), and all sorts of unforeseen things can mess up your afternoon real quick. In DG country, you need to have a chambered round because you never know what can jump out of a bush, but I feel much more comfortable around strangers who do not have a loaded rifle...