Would you have any issues in being paired with an American PH while on safari in Africa? Let's just assume he has all the right qualifications and permits, papers and such. Would you rather have a PH who had been born and raised in Africa?
Just curious. I was reading a little Capstick last night...
I don't think it would matter to me as long as he knew the area, etc, etc, etc.
Brian

George Hoffman, God rest his soul.

In general, I would rather have an African ph, Zimbabwe ph, if possible. I do not want to hunt with an American ph in Africa.

There are few exceptions. Hoffman, obviously, was quite an exception.

I should have been more specific. So let me add this - Why would you not want an American PH in Africa, if he were as well qualified as an African?
Thanks,
Brian

Conventional wisdom says that a white African PH is the best choice.

On the surface this may seem true, but when you dig a bit deeper you will find that white African PHs get into the the business for many different reasons, money being one of the main motives today.

An American who "Chucks it all and heads to Africa" to be a PH does so for the love of hunting. You could make more money doing almost anything here in the U.S.

This does not mean that one would be a better PH......

JMHO

Jason

quote:

Originally posted by Allout:
I should have been more specific. So let me add this - Why would you not want an American PH in Africa, if he were as well qualified as an African?
Thanks,
Brian

Part of the magic of hunting Africa is being entertained by the Ph's stories of an Africa that is now gone. It would be hard for an American to measure up in this respect. Unless they had lived in Africa for 20 or 30 years.

Jason

In deep cover hunting DG, my choice is a Zimbabwe PH or the equivalent in training. American PH's may even have better equipment and shoot more, but would lack the overall knowledge required for good judgement, IMO. It has to help to grow up in the area and know the indigenous peoples, terrain, and animals-habits, etc. Anyway, who wants to go to Africa and hunt with an American PH??

Of course, Mark is a special case,

Dak

How would someone like Jeff Rann fit into this, he seems to have been in Africa for a while?

Oh yes, we can't forget MS, besides, you can then hunt with more 'honor' than the next guy!

Then you have Jason Roussos who, although an American, was born and raised in Ethiopia.
He grew up hunting with his father.
Rich Elliott

Mark Sullivan is an American PH.

There were one or two Americans who successfully guided in Kenya, back in the good old days. I'll have to look it up some book I read, probably about Kerr & Downey or some other East African outfitter. Wasn't Dave Omany (sorry about spelling) an American PH?

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Mark Sullivan is an American PH.

That's a below the belt shot. I am sure not every American PH would be a wound first finish second hunter.
Brian

This is one of those hypothetical questions to which there is no answer.

A few comments:

1. It takes very little knowledge, experience and bushcraft to become a "PH" in South Africa or Botswana. Zimbabwe on the other hand has quite rigorous requirements. I think Namibia is somewhere in between. So I would be leery of an American holding a SA licence...he probably DOES NOT have the same depth of knowledge than a local who has grown up hunting that part of the world.

2. On the other hand, people who have learned to hunt in NA have likely grown up hunting on foot, whereas those that have grown up in SA, Namibia, Botswana have most likely done most of their hunting from the bakkie (spot and stalk, or spot and shoot). The American has also probably learned to field dress and cape his own game, while the African has always had "help" in that regard.

3. The local has almost surely spent more time in the bush than the American, so he has a clear advantage in terms of knowing the animals, their habits, tracks etc.

4. An American who chooses to become a PH in Africa probably has a loose screw or two, or at least a complex ego.

5. A local who chooses to become a PH does not necessarily do it "for the money" as there are so many PHs floating around that the value of that qualification is dubious. He probably does it because he enjoys hunting, has lost his government/military/police job, and is not qualified to do anthing more lucrative.

6. It's quite important to be able to speak one or more local lingos and it's highly unlikely that any American PH can do so.

In the final analysis, since there is no such thing as an average human being, it comes down to THE SPECIFIC PH we are talking about.

quote:

There were one or two Americans who successfully guided in Kenya, back in the good old days. I'll have to look it up some book I read,

I'm thinking that Glen Cottar was from Oklahoma. Anybody know for sure?
Rich Elliott

Whre's Steve? Not an American by far but perhaps he can lend his personal perspective as a "foreign" PH.

Personally speaking it's a tough call for me. As someone else said I to enjoy the "African perspective" while passing the time. However I also agree with the previous comment that someone who's left their native land to hunt Africa probably did it out of love for the experience. As such he is likely to be of high caliber, hunting wise. I guess it'd be one of those things depending on the individual.

There are some women in the game as well I'm told. What of being teamed with a female PH? And please leave the sexual aspects asside!

quote:

I'm thinking that Glen Cottar was from Oklahoma. Anybody know for sure

Found the answer to my own question. It was Charles Cottar, Glen's Grendfather, who came to Kenya (British East Africa) from Oklahoma at the turn of the century. Guess all the progeny were Kenyan's
Rich Elliott

quote:

Originally posted by Rich Elliott:

quote:

There were one or two Americans who successfully guided in Kenya, back in the good old days. I'll have to look it up some book I read,

I'm thinking that Glen Cottar was from Oklahoma. Anybody know for sure?
Rich Elliott

I'm thinking you are thinking of ol" Chas Cottar. Glen was born there I am sure.

Not necessarily, American, but about 40% 0f the PHs in African countries are not African born! There are several American PHs, but there are many who are English born as well, and several that are from the Nordic countries, and Namibia has many German born PHs.
IMO, the best of these are those who have spent a long while in Africa, and have paid their dues. I would say African born PHs that are likely to be part time rooky PHs are those in RSA, though there are very good ones there as well.

As Russ says, people are individules, and no matter where they came from, MOST are at least GOOD, and some are great! I judge a PH by his actions, not where he was born! Jeff Rann, is an american I would hunt with any time, and there is one American PH I wouldn't hunt with for free. There are a couple of African born PHs, that fall into the same sack with that American PH I wouldn't hunt with!

If a PH has a good rep, you will know it by word of mouth, and if he doesn't you will know the same way! Accurate Reloading's African hunting forum, is the place to find the reps, both good , and bad!

Wink,
I checked in Brain Hearns 'White hunters' and it says that David Omany is born in India of british parents.Another interesting thing in that book about first American PH is of Peregrine (Peary) Herne from Texas who outfitted in Africa as early as 1840.

I prefer an African PH. My PH in Zim, spoke fluent Shona, as well as a few of the more obscure dialects, knew and understood the personalities of his trackers, the game csout, and the camp staff because he grew up with them. In fact his lead tracker, the guy standing in the back in the picture below, was his baby sitter, and is a kind of uncle to him.

He knows ever little bug, bird, snake and lizard, and was deadly with a fishing pole too! The dude knows his "neighborhood" like I know mine. He still thanks me for the time he spent here, as i showed him things nobody else could-would show. Same for my trip there.

If I want an American PH, I'll go hunt with Kyler Hamann.

Isn't Joe Coogan a PH for TGT

Then you Adam Clements who is an American raised in Africa, received his college education in America, married a girl from Zimbabwe, and now lives in Texas.

The late Cotton Gordon was pretty well known also. I think there are a lot more than we realize.

LJS

Joe Coogan is pretty much full time with Benneli now. He is an American but spent teenage years in Kenya and apprenticed with Harry Selby in Botswana. I would be very confident hunting Africa with him. He is the real deal.

Jeff Rann is also a prominent American PH with his own safari company.

Mark

I had the pleasure of hunting with Geo. Hoffman, PH for 21 days in TZ in 1992. Over 20 animals were taken and from two different camps. Geo. had to pass all the exams and was licensed to hunt in several African countries. I have his license for the Sudan in among my treasures.
George told me about how he was discriminated against by some PH's that were giving him his exams because he was an American. George always wanted to be the best of the best in order to prove those folks that they were wrong in their thinking. He knew the trees, the critters and he had no problems communicating with any of the crew that I ever saw. He also treated his trackers and camp crew with great respect. He never had a problem rounding up a camp crew.
George did not drink nor smoke and all he wanted to do was hunt except George did love to eat and drink orange Fanta!
In the off season I had the pleasure of having George as my hunting partner for many years on my Chimney Hill ranch in west Texas. He was deadly on deer with his 270 Winchester. He is missed by many of us that had the pleasure of his company.

quote:

Originally posted by huntergill:
Wink,
I checked in Brain Hearns 'White hunters' and it says that David Omany is born in India of british parents.Another interesting thing in that book about first American PH is of Peregrine (Peary) Herne from Texas who outfitted in Africa as early as 1840.

???

Personal rule:
I would never hunt with a guide who was not raised in the country. Suitcase Guides.
I've seen it a lot in Alaska. The guides may have a lot of knowledge but....there are things that are only learned if you are raised as a kid in the area. You can learn a lot of stuff, but, it ain't the same as being there since you were a kid.
No offense to the guides who work in an area where they weren't brought up. Just my personal rule.

How about PH's from other countries ? Is Tony Sanchez Arino, who is a Spaniard, a qualified African PH? How about John Hunter, who was a Scot.
Does all this mean that Finn Aagaard could not have been a good American guide when he lived in Texas?

It makes no difference to me what nationality my PH is, as long as I can understand him when he speaks, he knows the game and the country and he possesses all of the same good humor, physical and moral courage and other sterling qualities of character that I do.

One must remember when talking about "old timer" PHs or White Hunters that in the early part of the 20th Century most whites in Africa where all born elsewhere. Other than the Afrikaan's hunters from the South.

Indeed the first safari outfitters in Africa was the firm of Newland and Tarlton, Newland and Tarlton being Aussie troopers in the Boer War whom then set up their safari outfitting firm in East Africa in 1904.

Nowadays there are many resident guys either born there or whom have lived in Africa for most of their lives. These sorts of people are my preference. I don't see the attraction of using PHs whom might fly in and out just for the season. But having said that, with the migration of good people out of Africa, just because a PH now lives in the US, Australia, NZ, or elsewhere, they might actually be immigrants to these countries for wholly different reasons but still have a history in Africa.

So those of you who adamantly say no would have refused to hunt with PHC back in his day? You would not let Jeff Rann run your safari today? Interesting. Not running anybodies choices down or saying any of you are right or wrong (so don’t get out your flack jackets and go to war), I just find it interesting.
I was looking at the requirements for obtaining a PH license in RSA (No I am not thinking of quitting life here to go there and be under-appreciated or put my life in peril for $100 a day) and it looks like you have to be a resident for a year and complete one of the many licensed PH schools (interesting coursework) before you can legally start working. I would think that unless your PH was literally raised on the concession you are hunting, any PH who had the time to look it over and scout the territory, would be just as capable of finding game as any other, regardless of country of origin.
Oh, well, thanks for the responses. Some of you had some very good points, both pro and con.
Brian

Most American PH's do not have enough experience to compete with the Zimbabwe trained PH. There are very few who do.

I believe anyone on this board would be comfortable with a PH, of any nationality, who had the proper training, (not just the license), coupled with a lot of experience.

My previous answer of "No, I would not hunt with an American." should be revised to reflect this.

From my experience most people from a certain cultural background prefer to hunt with a PH of a similar cultural background. This seems to be especially evident with many Europeans, esp the Germans, French and Brits.

I know quite a lot of PHs who were born (and sometimes/often live for at least part ofthe year) outside Africa and all the ones I know have good reputations in the industry and don't seem to have much trouble finding work or clients.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ Gould:
1. It takes very little knowledge, experience and bushcraft to become a "PH" in South Africa or Botswana.

The testing and requirements in Botswana (especially for dangerous game) are much more rigorous than in RSA.

As to the original question, while in Africa, I want to hunt like I'm in Africa. I want a PH who speaks the local language, knows the game and knows how to track. If he has earned the respect of his trackers, he'll have my respect.

There are quit a few American PHs out there, some are excellent and some are not. I can say the same thing about African PHs. Some excellent PHs from England, France and Scotland.

They all put their pants on one leg at a time, so pick the man not his country of birth.

quote:

4. An American who chooses to become a PH in Africa probably has a loose screw or two, or at least a complex ego.

Very Interesting.....

I read a book called Professional Hunters for a Changing Africa by Terry Cacek. First half was about the Americans. Second half was about the black African PH's.

Ridge Taylor was an "American PH". He had a very good reputation and following. Though I never hunted with Ridge, I know people that have and they were all pleased.

John

Just ask that question of the hundreds of clients who hunted Zambia and Tanzania with Cotton Gordon.

Sam

Formerly registered as Bravo five one.

I would rather have an American PH who knew the area than a native who did not.

I met an American PH in Kigosi named John Miller. Seems he was quite adept. He shot Wendell's roan after we left.