Pecos,

What lies??? Of course I see the sarcasm in your post. Stating the obvious 180% out of phase.

ASS_CLOWN

Let me start off by saying I have never been charged so have not had to deal with such a situation. However, I have heard of 2 different schools of thinking as to where to place the shot on a charging buffalo:

1- The theory I most commonly hear is to aim for the nose as buffalo charge with their muzzle up.
2- The other school of thinking is to aim between the eyes and just below the line of the boss.

Of course if it gets within 5 yards there is also the shot to the middle of the boss as it lowers its head to hook you but I am interested in thoughts about the two theories above.

I was reading a fairly new Man/Magnum (May '04, at least with surface shipping from South Africa it is new to me ) wherein the "Life at Riley's" column is a discussion of this very issue.

The author writes about Tony Henley (famous East AFrican PH), and Ronnie Blackbeard (well known Botswana PH) commenting on the scenario. PH Henley likens hitting a buff in the brain to shooting a tennis ball bouncing along the ground at you. Both are the same size, and both move around in a charge.

PH Henley recommends the shot into the V where the neck joins the chest as noted above, and with a rifle of "adequate caliber" -- he says the buff will probably keep coming but won't try to hook the shooter as he passes.

PH Blackbeard agreed, and noted close to the brain won't do it either.

jim dodd

It seems more and more of the older school PH's and wardens are saying the V of the neck. A buff hit there isnt dropped on the spot but is dying and doesnt try to hook as it goes by. I can look up who, but it's some pretty big name hunters that swear by it.

I have a feeling that we will hear the name Mark Sullivan in the near future.
He is a true master when it comes to Brain shoots on charging buffalo.

Cheers,

Andr�

Aim to the head just over the barrel (like a shotgun) and pray ....and remember to use enough gun.

LG

Well if anything, he does know how to hit the brain. By the way, MS ia proponent of theory 2

Where to aim? It all depends...
If you have a double, you always put your first shot into the chest, either a low chest shot to hit the heart, or a high shot (just under the chin) to take out the arteries and hopefully hit the spine. If you have a bolt action or single shot, well that just depends on how far away the buff is when you get the chance for your first shot. If more than 10 paces, put a round in the chest and do an amaizingly fast reload so you can go for the spine/brain if it is still comming.

A heart shot buffalo might flatten you but it is unlikely to come round to finish the job. The second shot is reserved for point blank range:- on the nose if the head is still up, over the top of the head into the neck if the head has been dropped.

Why over the top of the head? simple. Buffalo have small brains and well cushioned. The spine is a much larger target and even a hit on one of the spiney processes will cause concusion and drop the animal, giving you time to prove that you can cycle and fire a bolt action rifle as fast as a Semi Auto in moments of need.

Of course, if the buff is fairly buggered anyway when it begins its charge, the head will be held low from the begining, so shoot over the head into the spine right from the start.

On the Buffalo erradication programmes most of the buffalo we shot were effectively "charging". They were driven onto us by helicopted, and once the shooting started they were pretty beligerant.

The least effective shots were those that went above the heart but below the spine. I had to follow up a cow that had been shot here with a .416 Rigby. When I finally caught up with here 9 hours later she was in fine form, and a .375 on the nose at 2 paces was needed to settle the matter. I dissected her to find out what had gone wrong:- nothing really. Bullet (a solid) had passed over the heart, between the lungs, on through the stomach and intestines and left below the anus (giving her a hysterectomy on the way). The wound would have proved fatal in the long run but didn't even slow her up after 9 hours. In 30 frontal shots I learned that you hit heart, spine or brain or you are in trouble. Later as a PH, I have seen this with clients. Those that place their shots accurately at the chosen target have no trouble.

It is also the reason to wait 30 mins before starting a follow up. Adrenaline makes buffalo bullet proof. A 9,3x62 in the chest stops a buffalo that is just running. Seen an angry buff take 4 .577 Nitro rounds in the chest (and a .505 through the lungs from the side), and still throw clive connolly, breaking his Westly Richards double in the process. Moral. Shoot straight and don't wound the bastards in the first place.

Wow! Breaking the Westley Richards has got to hurt!
Peter.

Good reply, Dude.



As you say, and many others, spining a buff when it has its head down is a lot "easier" shot than trying to brain it. The spine may be no wider than the brain but is a heck of alot longer.



Of course talk is cheap as I never had to try to stop a charging buff but it is a good idea to know what you are suppose to do.

Ganyana,
Assuming one is facing a charge that starts of at say 40-50 metres in relative open ground, till when should you hold your shot if at all? Using a bolt rifle.

Bwanamich

This Thread will be a MONSTER And people will be coming out of the wood work
I will enjoy every moment of it.

Cheers,

Andr�

I think I will aim for the middle of the head, as I don't think anyone will get much of a chance otherwise from a close quarter charge from a buffalo.

It is going to be a one shot contest before he hits you. It might turn out to be a point-and-shoot shotgun style shot anyway.

As Ganyana said, make sure your first shot is well placed, you won't have to worry about a charge then.

I don't really believe that you can get much more accurate than minute-of-buffalo-head can you? The target is moving and bouncing and you are not exactly composed!

All the above are good posts, and all have the proper shot placement in the cercumstances which is in their mind's eye! The Minds eye is hard to discribe to others, and some buffalo act differently than others.

Haveing said that, the buffalo that charges,wounded, or unwounded at close range (15 yds) is one that must be stopped, not wounded, because he means to abuse you! I find that once a buff charges he will not turn, unless hit very hard, and most times, not even then.

A buffalo will, usually, lower his head, and neck just as he makes his move, then tip his nose upwards, and look you right in the eye as he comes,with a SNORT, and with the nose between you, and any spot between his eyes. With this picture in mind, the shot will be different depending on the type of firearm you are useing, and how it is loaded. If useing a bolt rifle, we are talking "ONE" shot, to do it all, in most cases, with the average client shooter. This being the case, if the first round is a soft, the target is right under the chin of the Buff so as to hit the spine, or suficiently shock it to give you time to work that bolt,or in the "V" where the neck joins the shoulders for a heart shot. If the under the chin shot doesn't do the trick,and the "V" shot will not stop him, the next one, if you get it at all, will be between the eyes as he lowers his head, at about 3 yds, and if this doesn't stop him I hope your insurance is paid up!

If the charge starts at less than 10 yds, and you are useing a bolt rifle, the first shot better do something, because it is likely the only one you'll get.

If you are useing a double rifle, and it is loaded with a soft in the right barrel, and a solid in the left begining again at 15 yds, the soft should be pasted in the bottom of the "V", and the left solid reserved for the nose, or just under the chin shot. Here you will likely still have a 10 yds spread, with the first two shots fired within the first 5 yds of the charge. The reload will likely give you only one more, even with the double, if the first two don't stop the charge, and will be shotgun style, and the brain is the only sensable target. On this last shot is where a scope henders your shotgun type shooting. In fact any scope on any rifle is a henderance when a charge is close!

The above suggestions do not apply to lion, or Leopard, because they are much faster, and harder to hit properly. Here all shots fired better hit something vital to his life, and/or mobility, otherwise, you gonna get bit! The cat thing is opinion on my part, because I have not stood a charge from either of the cats, but have seen a couple. The buffalo, however, I have been there, and if I can, I want a double rifle of even 375H&H Flanged,over any bolt rifle, but a .400 up, double,would be better than any bolt rifle, regardless of chambering, or feeding system.

As to my last post, anwsering Andr�... It was in no way ment to be depreciatory to anyone who posted here, I am as always impressed by the knowledge and experience of the members here.

Reagards,
Martin

I agree with JefferyDenmark,
The armchair MS's are going to come out of the woodwork.

Thank goodness I've never taken a charge from a dangerous animal but I have been chased around quite a bit from wounded wild boars up to 400 pounds at distances less than a meter. In those situations it's all a person can do to even get a shot or two off much less be "holding your shot" or aiming 5 centimeters central of the zygomatic arch, etc.

I've been LUCKY enough to stop quite a few charging boars and I bet my average for shot placement in vital areas in those situations is somewhere under 30% (and I do practice fast shooting at close distances for just such occations). People forget how complex situations can get. You can find yourself in a tight situation in extremely thick cover, very close distances, darkness, rain, people in the way, etc. In most cases these aren't 1:00pm on a Saturday afternoon at the practice range situations.

Of course there are people that have and can continue to stop charges on a regular basis, but it's a very small percentage of us. Over the last 17 years of guiding I can't remember a client even getting a shot off when we've been charged by a wounded boar. Many people seem to freeze and are shocked at how lightening fast things can go wrong.

If you're one of the few that have the testicular composure to pick your shot and place it correctly that's great, but until you're there to find out first hand I say - SHOOT EARLY and SHOOT OFTEN!

Great hunting with great hunters,
Kyler

Well I guess that I meet the requirements of an "armchair" Mark Sullivan. Ganyana and Saeed's posts made sense to me, but one thing that I've observed to be PURE NONSENSE is that myth about buffalos charging with their noses held high. By the time their noses come up, he's already tossed you so it's OBE.

There are myriad videos out there that clearly show a buffalo's head to be DOWN during the charge. I'm going next year with a bolt and my mission is to NEVER let the charge develop. If it does, depending on distance, the first shot goes under the chin to try and catch the main arteries or spine and the second goes right at the base of the Boss. If only one shot is available due to proximity, then I think one HAS to hold his fire until a brain shot is assured. If I survive, then I'll proceed to kick the shit out of my PH for letting me get into the situation in the first place! jorge

PS: My PH is John Sharp so those of you that know him, "kicking the shit" out of him is wishful thinking on my part!

Bwanamitch:- any charge that starts more than 15 paces away is going to get a chest shot just under the chin from me and then I'll reload and wait until I cannot miss a spine or brain shot.

A buffalo charge actually starts out quite slowly, and adrenaline flowing through you makes everything seem to slow down even more. The only time you do not have a chance for two shots with a bolt action or even a single (like a Ruger No 1) is in thick jesse, or when you make the mistake of running after the buffalo you have just shot to find that it has turned arround behind some cover and is now already running at full speed towards you and you are running at full speed towards it! Bad bad plan.

The head held high is usually the sign of an unwounded or lightly wounded animal. Have settled two charges with shots on the point of the nose during the erradication days. Neighter buff was critically hit.

If you want to know why the government guys got all the practice on the wounded animals, it was because all the local farmers joined in the culls using everything from .22 hornit (the terminal F**kwit who tried it reckoned Bell used a .22 on buff so his hornit should be fine. Bell actually used a .22 savage highpower - but this fellow killed three and wounded two on that cull) to .505's, but mostly the farmers used 7.62 nato rifles with ball ammo. All animals that over ran the stop line, were wounded or otherwisegot away had to be followed up and dispatched. Most of the guys were game for the cull, but generally politely declined to help follow up the wounded, usually citing unsuitable rifles, kids back home, visitors for lunch etc. The poor bastards in the helicopter did most of the finishing off (get the angle wrong in your shoulder and a .458 will bruise you from finger tip to waist and hanging out of the door on a helio it's easy to get the angle wrong). The rest the government guys had to follow up. My diary shows that one in six follow ups resulted in a charge. as an 18 year ols will more balls than brains I had a couple of narrow misses, - walked past one that then charged from behind etc. I grew up quick!!!!

What do you advise your clients to do with a scoped rifle in a follow-up? For instance a med-large bolt rifle (450-500) with a 1.5-5x removable scope. I'm better with a scoped rifle at 50-100 yds, but in a follow-up at close quarters (high grass, would you advise going with iron sights?
For me the iron sights are fine at close distances, no problem then to calculate the scope C/L distance to bore and then place it on the buffalo's nose. Too much time with these adjustments could result in the buff grazing on your backside

DAK

bwanamich:

Having just read a series of posts responding to your query (many, if not all written by people who obviously know what they are talking about and-no,I never had to face nyati at 5 paces - thank heaven!) I am once again amazed at the wealth of real "dope" available on this website. (for any not familiar with old American slang, I mean "expertise") I periodically insult Saeed but he is owed a vote of thanks for making this website available.

This post is interesting as I am headed over for my 1st buff. in Moz. I have been practicing w/ open sights @ 50yds & am very comfortable w/ them. I find them a bit faster than the scope, for me. I have lever mounts & if time permits, I'm hunting in the thick stuff & my 1st shot hasn't done the job, I plan on going to irons for the follow up.

Guys & Gals,

I know this doesn't sound very complimentary but I think the reality is for most off us amateurs and I mean anyone who doesn't hunt for a living that if we could get a bullet or two into the center of mass of a charging buffalo we would be doing very well.

Regards,

Mark

As a wannabe buffalo hunter, please excuse my ignorance but...wouldn't a spine shot on buff be over the top of the head in the top of the back, or does it curve down? Also, how tall are they at the shoulder? In other words, at 5'6'' in built up shoes, where will I be looking or rather what would I see looking head on?
Thanks, peter.

Bwanamich,

This is where I would shoot.

Quote:

---

2- The other school of thinking is to aim between the eyes and just below the line of the boss

---

Works very well, and they go straight down if you hit them there. Even with near misses they seem to fall down (use a BIG rifle), although they get back up PDQ.

ASS_CLOWN

The spine runs from its brain to its asshole! Hitting it in the spine will not necessarily kill it but it will stop its forward progress.

It's going to be easier to hit than the brain but you have to have a decent shot at it. That is why Ganyana talks about shooting a buff under the chin, which gives you a shot at the spine. But it is not impossible to brain a buff. Its brain is as big as a big grapefruit.

Dan,

Sorry I forgot! I only have a 50 Beowulf, a Daisy Champion 99 BB gun, and a M94 30-30. I have also shot NO game in my life, only paper when I am lucky enough to hit it!!

Now do you feel better?

Dan, how big is a buffalo's brain from the front? I always figured it to be about like hitting a target slightly smaller than the average fist.

ASS_CLOWN

You have to remember that there is a huge hole of nothing but air over the brain in a seperate compartment..You that have dehorned cattle will understand this better than most..so if you shoot a buffalo between the eyes above eye level it will not kill him, just make him very angry unless it penitrates and hits the spine...an inch or two below the eyes is better..I have seen Buffalo take shots in the eye and keep coming..

If he is coming with nose up the shoot him in the hairline above that shiny nose...

I have had 3 charges and in each case it came about by someones bad shooting and twice because of bad head shots..I shoot for the chest V or under the chin until they get close, then in each case I point shot for the brain..so far so good..Keep in mind a brain shot on a charging buff at the longer ranges is a very difficult shot..A spine shot over the head is an easy shot most of the time and always seems to have an immediate effect..

Even broadside the shot at the base of the neck where it joins the shoulders seems to drop Buffalo on the spot, but always follow up with a quick second or third shot..The vertabre is huge, and there are a mass of short ribs of the neck an if you clip one he will go down. I have used this shot many many times and in each case its been 100% effective so far....but I never count a buff out until his eyes glaze..A lesson I learned with A.J. Van Heerden, while he was getting ready to take my picture the bull, slowly rolled his head and rolled his eyes and looked at me, I made some fancy steps, scooped up my double and gave him two in the spine, then two more in the chest, much to A.J.s fun and laughter...That was the "teapot bull", I tookt the shot at 225 yards and he just tipped over like a teapot as A.J. put it and died?, well not quite..judging from my first shot I probably hit one of those ribs off the vertabre and he came too about 30 minutes later I guess.

ASS CLOWN, that is the first honest post you have ever made..I don't think you have ever shot a buffalo.

Ray,

You got me. I never shot no animal never, no way.

So if you shoot him through the snout he dies. Interesting.

Personally, I find these types of threads to be hilarious. If for no other reason than, it is the manner in which the bull is holding his head which will determine were one puts the bullet! So these answers, all of a generic nature, are rather academic!

Of course Ray, I know nothing, as you have pointed out.



ASS_CLOWN

Canuck,

There was an article in Magnum and African Hunter that shows a section buffalo skull and the brain cavity. African Hunter used these photos of mine for the drawings in Nyati. Nickudu used to have the photos on his webpage. They may still be there.

It is all dependent on the angle, of course. You just have to figure out what it is when it is about to kick your butt!!

That is correct, Will...I have seen the pic's in both places you mention.



Your second sentiment is the real issue, of course, and the head angle isn't likely to remain constant.



I haven't faced a buffalo (charging or otherwise), but I have shot a charging black bear (yah, you'd be surprised...they do charge if they think you are prey!!...and they're quick too), and I know first hand that much harder than knowing where to hit, is actually hitting there! My first shot was rushed and hit nothing but dirt. I wouldn't have gotten a second one in time if the bear hadn't almost turned itself inside out after the instant realization that its original plan was very flawed (I could just hear it..."Hey, that's not a calf elk!!")



Cheers,

Canuck

Canuck,
Is your phrase "rocket surgery" an original or stolen?
That's great, I might borrow it if you don't mind.

Kyler

Canuck,

Just my opinion on the subject, but hitting a charging bear in the noodle is a tad bit more difficult than doing the same thing to a buffalo. Bears tend to throw their heads around more, again in my experience/opinion.

Of course you've got to remember Ray's words of wisdom about me!

ASS_CLOWN

With the snarling bovine bearing down on you and you get off as many shots into him as possible, what do you do next? Do you sidestep like a toreador or are they too quick for that maneuver? Just curious as I've never hunted buff or viewed a MS video.

HI,

Good post,like to read about people who have been there and done it,I sure have not.I guess this is where experience is worth its weight in gold,kev

When the chamber is empty and mbogo is still coming is it better to fake left and go right or fake right and go left?