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| One of Us |
Little known fact that most all trackers speak and understand English. So when the PH suddenly starts talking to the trackers in Afrikaans, it is generally one of these exchanges...
Can't wait for this hunt to be over. Where? Where? I still don’t see it. Is it like close in or far away? Crap, what do you call that animal again.... How much longer can we walk in circles before he catches on we are only hunting on 300 areas? Looks like he’s tiring, let’s walk faster. Save the beer and steaks for the next client. It’s cold sandwiches and bug juice for this one. Tell him that’s a small one, I want to save that one for Dan. He tips better. Another fuking Blazer. What a toss. Wonder how many more times he’s going to miss? This is like bowling for the blind. Tell him it’s a new SCI record, he’ll believe anything. If he tells me one more time what a great hunter he is, please shoot either him or me. Forfuksake, this toss looks like a walking Cabela’s magazine. Wait back up, he missed stepping on that stick. What the hell is he wearing, snowshoes? You don’t suppose we’re going to get out of this alive do you? Great, another first time hunter. I need to raise my daily rates. WHAT! Our cook died of Ebola too? ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | ||
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Kind of on the same subject. One of my clients asked me to ask the PH he would be hunting with what language he spoke to his trackers. He wanted to bone up on the dialect a little pre safari. I kind of knew the answer but followed through for the client as I always do. The response from the PH went something like this "He can't learn the dialect as there isn't anything written to learn. When talking with the staff I speak a mixture of English, Afrikaans and about 3 local dialects all at the same time." I Can't imagine trying to follow those conversations. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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It is interesting that you would say that. Looking at words and their translation on line you can recognize key words while in Africa. Plus there are computer programs to better understand different languages. They provide the basic word and then give a sentence structure on how the word is or can be used. There are translation programs and they will provide it to you in sound. It works. The thing is, you do not have to let them know that you are understanding what the jest of the conservation is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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I have actually stopped a hunt in mid stalk ( RSA) to politely ask the two PH's and the tracker to stop talking in Afrikaans. I said, "By the way, this is my hunt, I'm paying you two rather well for it, and I intend to be part of it." They looked at me kind of funny for a minute, and one of them explained he meant nothing by it, he is just more comfortable speaking Afrikaans than English. I said "great, but please, when we are discussing options and ideas during the stalk, lets stick to English so that all present may have an informed opinion". For the rest of the hunt he was good with it, I think that being SA, he is just not as used to speaking English as most of the Namibian and Zim PH's are, and reverts to his language when things are a bit tense. Most of the Zim and Namibian guys are usually speaking English anyway. FWIW, I just finished a 14 hunt with Andrew ( fairgame here) and his English is as good as any American's LOL!!! He was a real pleasure to hunt with, as well as his two assistants Tom and Jake, along with tracker Mike. Jake at any rate is a transplanted Texan, but Andrew doesn't hold that against him! Back to the original question, if you make an effort, you can be surprised at the amount of Afrikaans you can learn in a 2-3 week hunt, if you just try a little each day. I told my old guy Kobus, that one day I planned to return, buy a new Landcruiser and tour Africa for six months, and by that time I would have learnt the language. I was going to require a sleeping dictionary though, preferably one whose father left her a chain of liquor stores and a substantial ranch/farm. If she could be a swimsuit model/ nymphomaniac, that would be great too....... Master of Boats, Slayer of Beasts, Charmer of the fair sex, ...... and sometimes changer of the diaper..... | |||
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Guys, I have experienced PH's and staff that spoke perfect English conversing at length in Afrikaans and French at the dinner table while the clients just set there feeling excluded. Now that is just rude! In fact in the industry it gives both nationalities a black eye. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I've always been of the view that the hunt should be conducted in whatever language is local to the hunt - whether that is Gaelic, Polish, Kiswahili, German or Afrikaans. I found it quite surprising when hunting in Zim and Namibia how a working knowledge of Kiswahili translated across the cultures. I think the hunter, not the guide, should be making concessions - to demand a hunt conducted entirely in English (or WHY) is likely to lead to a certain missing of the point and the flavour of the experience. | |||
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Interesting viewpoint considering who is footing the bill for the hunt. | |||
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As a Texan (and American) I think too many of us get too easily offended about how the PH's/trackers/etc. converse. The only time I came close to being offended was on my most recent safari in SA when the PH and videographer spoke Afrikaans most of the time. After a couple of days in conversation I realized that both of them had English as their THIRD language. Realized I was being a little judgmental. On my elephant hunt in Zim in 2015 my videographer (Andy Buchanan, Buchanan Hunts) put "closed captioning" on my video when my PH and trackers were conversing in Shona. I got a kick out of finding out how many times the PH and trackers were concerned about "well, we don't have anyplace to run if we get charged right now" etc.! "Never, ever, book a hunt with Jeri Booth or Detail Company Adventures" | |||
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Kuwinda, I too found my "Use enough gun" swahili had it's uses in Mashonaland............but not necessarily where the Ndebele was in use. A mate of mine can speak some Bushmann with all the clicks, clocks, clucks...........try understanding that. I always tried to pick up the language by asking as to what was said. It got to the stage where I was "passable"............ I don't think that's too greater claim. | |||
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It's confusing when you are left to do the "okay, shoot now" part. Relying on the PH to fill me in while I'm trying to do a good job of glassing, etc. to be ready to do a good job -- that's very unsatisfying. Hunting is more than collecting, for me. Even seventeen years trying to pick up Afrikaans from tapes and books plus YouTube music videos made little difference. Xhosa either. (It did create good will, and I had fun interacting.) _______________________ | |||
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This a good discussion,I myself will not hunt again if I am not included in the conversation,I want to understand whatever is going on,I paid for it,understanding everything makes the hunt more real. DRSS | |||
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While recently hunting in Kazakhstan we had a mixture of English, German, Spanish and Russian going on. With a little help from google translate we figured things out. The interpreter in base camp was very good, but once out in the hills we were left to our own devices. | |||
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Sounds like he is then basically speaking Fanagalo, or one of the variants, which is fairly well known from Congo/Zambia south. | |||
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Interesting discussion- I do believe that communication is what really sets a great Ph apart from a good PH. There are lots of good PH out there but for a client to get as much out of a safari a PH must keep his client in the loop the whole time. There will be discussions in shona( if Zimbabwe) between the Ph and trackers and a great Ph will then at least turn to his client and say " we were discussing this or that or this is what we will be doing now" I once had to have a discussion with a few free lance Ph we had in camp for a big group. They gravitated to the bar in the evening and had a long discussion using our Zim slang which is so developed that it would and did isolate the client which is not acceptable. This was not on purpose and in their defence if we are in bar in Harare we will all use the slang but it is not fair on a paying client to not be part of all conversations on his safari! | |||
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I like that one!  Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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I have to agree with the fact that every PH must include client in discussing plans, signs, what’s going on etc throughout the hunt period It is part of the hunt and that is what separates professionals from wannabes...no excuses " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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This is the right answer. I’ve not hunted africa, but when I do, I ain’t gonna be there to just shoot something. I want to know as much as possible and being “in the loop” is very important. When I was in Kenya my guide would talk to the guy we hired as a sort of lookout in Swahili. I knew enough to pick up words here and there and ask “what did he say about (insert Swahili word/phrase I understood)?” After a few days it developed into a perfectly natural 3-way conversation and even though the lookout could speak OK English, they really defaulted into Swahili with my guide and it was fine. | |||
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seems like a very intelligent comment | |||
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I have spent 2/3rds of my adult life as an expat. A long time ago I learned to get over the idea that being excluded was a bad thing. Even in Australia, the most inclusive group I have ever met sometimes they will get into a conversation that you are so far out of as an American that it feels a little outsie. I had 3 German employees in my office. They didn't really like one another, and there was bad blood from a long time ago between them. But those fuckers would speak German all day long to one another at work. By the end of the 3rd year, I was getting to the point that I finally understood the language a bit. But that first year was lonely. Someone else hinted at this above. We get the idea in our heads that an event we are paying a lot of money to be part of will be perfect. The truth to the story is that we are all human, and the odds are better than not that we will screw up basic common curtesy. | |||
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Asking why Jim was sulking at the supper table, his friend said that Jim had missed an easy shot earlier in the day. When his friend asked how much Jim's new Nightforce scope had cost, and hearing the reply he said "Oh man, you could have fok'd that shot up for the price of a Tasco!!" lt would seem some folks just can't take criticism. | |||
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Opus1, I love the thought of the humor that must get exchanged in other languages during the hunt. Surely there is the occasional criticism... I'm sure we could all add a bunch of hilarity if we thought about it, but might reveal our own weaknesses! On a more serious note, I recently returned from my only safari to date. Details to be posted soon. It was a 30+ year dream to hunt buffalo. I made sure I understood ONE word of the local dialect. Nyati! I also learned that almost everyone knows the english word, "Run!" | |||
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Randy, You are right. You don't speak English! Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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I see both sides. If I am out tracking and hunting then they should speak English, if possible, so that I know what's going on and can adjust accordingly. If the PH or camp manager or whoever is giving instructions to the driver, trackers, skinners, cooks, gardeners, etc. etc., for the camp, the meal, skinning, chalets, turn left or right, etc. etc, then I don't give a rat's ass. I had a hunting companion who accompanied me on a number of safaris who swore that they were always talking about him and saying how the "f--cking Americanscie couldn't hit the broad side of a barn".  | |||
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Easy cure for that - learn how to shoot! I can tell you, when they figure out that you can shoot, and shoot well, they get a LOT more excited about hunting with you! And when you can't hit a barn from inside it, well, every day is just more pain........ Master of Boats, Slayer of Beasts, Charmer of the fair sex, ...... and sometimes changer of the diaper..... | |||
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I guess that I've been lucky, the last four PHs that I've had would speak Afrikaans or Zulu or Shona or Greek (for all I know) to the trackers and turn around and explain what was happening to me in English. All conversations in camp except directions to the staff were in English even if there were two or three other PHs in camp. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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It does not bother me in the least. However when I was on my first safari I asked my PH to teach me some very specific phrases in Afrikaans. They had no use on my 16 day hunt but the previous fall I had the privilege of acting as the #4 official for Mark Lawrence the SA International referee in the USA vs Canada rugby game. He arranged a game for when while I was in Safari and sure enough the two teams from the local platinum mines who spoke good English in the changing rooms pre match suddenly didn’t speak a word 20 minutes into the match. So thanks to a few phrases in Afrikaans, a couple of phrases I learned from a Tongan referee, some gutter Spanish, some German I remembered from school and every Russian curse word I k ow I was able to give it back to them in spades because suddenly the ref they were having on was having it on with them. After a few minutes they asked could I please just referee in English and we all had a good laugh. If they want to talk in all the know languages I could care less as long as it makes for a better hunt for me. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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Mike, true words. The amount of Afrikaans/Bantu/Zulu/Ovambo/Damara spoken is directly proportional to how well the hunt is going. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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I had a scope mount issue on a trip. I didn't realize at the time that it was happening, but it was causing my scope to shift aim with every shot. Watching the PH talk about the shooting on an animal with another PH in camp, in Afrikaans, was a real treat. I mean, I am not as dumb as I look. If you are reenacting something it doesn't matter the language... Personally I thought hitting a running animal multiple times with a rifle that was constantly resetting point of aim was darn impressive... Look it is very simple...using another language to talk about someone who is present is just rude. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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I sense a little insecurity leaking out here. While your PH should be able to converse with you in English, you can't expect the same of trackers. And if they are speaking Shona, Zulu, Fanagalo, Sotho, Khoisan (Bushman) or even Afrikaans, it's because that's what they understand best. Not because they are denigrating you. If two Afrikaners are sitting at the dinner table speaking to each other, they will speak Afrikaans, especially if the matter has little to do with you. There are some things you don't need to know, or don't want to know. As long as they make an effort to include you in most of the conversation, there's nothing to complain about. I speak Afrikaans, Fanagalo, English and a little Zulu. I don't normally let on. I have never "caught" the PH or trackers saying anything critical or nasty. It's mostly just mundane stuff. Let it go. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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I have often wondered why trackers are so excited to hunt with me!  Thanks for the tip! | |||
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Humm... leave me out of the loop on important stuff (hunting related) and all of a sudden I might forget to tip... | |||
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We found your ability to speak Alaskan was quite adequate.  ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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If you are all eating together and they can speak English but don't this is rude...put whatever face you want on it. Now if twenty people are at the table that's different. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Charles, Agree 100%. I consider clients as guests. I was taught that you do not exclude guests from your conversation. If PH's and staff are speaking at length in a language foreign to the guests they are excluding them and exclusion equals rude. This is exactly the same as if we had non hunting friends over for dinner and all Sadie and I did was talk to each other about our last safari. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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This is a very good topic! I had a young PH that would come into camp start speaking Afrikaans with another PH and I thought it was rude. And, he spoke perfect English. In reality, it just comes down to good manner IMO. When I lived in South America, I always asked permission to speak in English when non English speakers were around. I realize a PH reading this might be offended. However, I would say a smart PH would look at these comments as constructive criticism and learn how to provide better customer service. It would most likely benefit all of the parties involved. | |||
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Jason P and Mark, you are absolutely correct And in hunting business, all comes down to money for who is paying the bill for these operations aka follow the money...that simple " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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"Hoe gaan dit met jou niggie, Andries? Ek hoor sy was siek?" "Jy moet die voertuig lekker skoonmaak vanaand, hoor?" "Is daar genoeg vleis vir the volgende groep". Horrors, they are talking about my terrible shooting. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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you are missing the point....either on purpose or ?...and if your shooting is so bad ...they should have the balls to tell you...in English..or whatever language you understand...bob | |||
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So when an Afrikaans-speaking PH comes to the USA, spends tens of thousands of dollars to exhibit at SCI or DSC, must the airline stewardesses, the customs officers, the show organizers, taxi drivers, restaurant servers, hotel front desk people speak Afrikaans to them? And when these people are addressing others in the presence of the PH, must they speak Afrikaans to others as well? Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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