I'll be hunting cape buffalo for the 1st time this September. I'll be packing my 375 H&H . My current load is a 270 TSX which I have plenty of and they shoot well. The 270 grain has pbeen quite impressive on plains game. Questions are this.... should I step up to the 300 grain Barnes TSX bullets for tbuffalo?? Do I really need to use a solid for follow up?? thanks 163bc

I've only taken three but, so my knowledge is minimal. The calibers I used were 416 Remington and two hunts with a 458 Lott. I put a 500 gr. soft into my last buf's heart from 30 yards. He turned and ran! I gave him a solid right through the ear as he headed for another zip code. Blew all the way through the brain and put him down for a dirt nap.

With my 416 Remington, I used three shots on my first buffalo way back in 1995. The last shot was from 6 yards and he was still coming - slowly I grant, but still …

All on this forum agree that it's where you shoot them, not with what, but I would much prefer the 300 gr Hornady Superformance DGX for my first shot, with a follow up of their 300 gr. DGS next in line.

Some hunters, both PH's and clients, believe in solids for the second and following shots, some don't.

I would suggest following the recommendation of your PH. He may have a strong opinion one way or the other, and his confidence in you and your rifle and ammo are important, imo.

I would step up to the 300 grainers, but you don't need to.

Also, even if your PH wants all TSX's and no solids on the buff, you ought to bring a few solids in case you have an opportunity at a small antelope, like a klipspringer or a grysbok. The solid won't tear up the little critters.

For example, here is a very, very nice grysbok, with excellent horns (believe it or not!,) shot with a 375H&H using a 300gr Woodleigh solid:


JPK


JPK

Yes you should step up to the 300 grainer and even then, be cautious about taking a frontal chest shot unless you're absolutely 110% certain you can get it slap bang in the centre....... hit even slightly to one side and you run a very real risk of the round skidding around the outside of the ribs and the buffalo running for the border and probably kissing it goodbye.

I would definitely advise you to use the 300 grain bullets, following the general rule of using heavy for caliber bullets in whatever rifle you choose. IMO, there is no need for solids for buffalo.

With only two buffalo, take this advice with a grain of salt. My first buff was taken with a 375 H&H shooting 300gr TBBCs. The first shot took out the lungs, the second shot, after it turned, broke the hip. It still took two more in the shoulder to put it down. The first two anchored the buff but didn't put it down. The second buffalo was taken with a 404Jeffery. First shot, 400gr woodleigh soft at 2185fps, took out the heart and staggered the bull. The second, 400gr woodleigh solid at same speed, put it down immediately.
My conclusion: both killed the buffalo, the larger bullet hit harder and put it down quicker. I suggest that you use the largest caliber and bullet that you are comfortable shooting. If 375, than I would definitely use a 300gr. I would take a softs and solids and load a soft than solids. If you hand load I would consider using 350gr bullets.
I have also been with two others who took buffalo with 375H&H. 300gr TBBSs. Each took multiple rounds to put down.
Good luck.

If your gun shoots 270's well, it will be fine. We can certainly split hairs here over energy, velocity etc, but in the end, they both open up to the same diameter both will have the same energy ... the Buffalo will not know the difference. Place it properly. He will die.

If it concerns you, go up to the 300's.

Having some solids in your belt is better than not having any. You may not use them, but it's good to be prepared.

With that chambering there is no such thing as softs because even the TSX`s will turn into solids once they hit a one ton buff..If you where using a 500gr bullet then you could refer to them and a bunch of others as softs.I would consider using a solid like a Woodleigh FMJ or a Hornady FMJ(my favorite).I would use Hornady FMJ for my 500 NE but I have a bunch of Woodleighs and they will do..
When you have a rifle calibre that begins with 3 and you want to shoot softs I would stick to smaller game especially if the bullet grains start with 2.

You will be fine with the 270grains in the TSX. If the PH wants solids take 'em. As JPK said they will work great on small stuff too, if you encounter such. 30 grains just ain't gonna make that much difference......the TSX is already long being a monometal. I think the 300g thing was from the old days to improve sectional density for penetration. I don't think it applies to monometals as much. JMO.

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quote:

Also, even if your PH wants all TSX's and no solids on the buff, you ought to bring a few solids in case you have an opportunity at a small antelope, like a klipspringer or a grysbok. The solid won't tear up the little critters.

A few solids for the little guys is always good. I think the 270 TSX will be fine. I've had a couple of clients use nothing else on several buffalo with excellent results. BUT if the 300's shoot in your rifle why not use them.

Mark

I shoot TSX bullets for Buff out of a 9.3 X 62, 9.3 X 74R and a .375 H & H. These are 286gr. bullets of course in the 9.3's so kinda between the two you mentioned. As Mark stated above, if the 300gr TSX shoot well, why not use them? I have found the Barnes solids shoot to the same POI as the TSX with a reduction of about 1/2 gr. in the load factor in all three rifles I use. I use Varget for what that is worth, as it is not sensitive to temps.

As for solids, I always have some handy. Depending on the situation, buff in a herd or a Dugga Boy or two. My PH, and I agree, that solids in a herd situation might just result in more than one hit Buff. If hunting loners, then I will always try and have a solid up next after the TSX. Ask what YOUR PH thinks on the solids thing and go with that.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International)Life Member
Sabatti 'trash' 9.3 X 74R Shooter
Blaser R8
DRSS

i never have hunted them as of yet but when he is running away that belly full of wet grass will really slow a soft point down i would think and thats the angel you will get on a fleeing buff ,but what do i know all i have is theory

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Yes you should step up to the 300 grainer and even then, be cautious about taking a frontal chest shot unless you're absolutely 110% certain you can get it slap bang in the centre....... hit even slightly to one side and you run a very real risk of the round skidding around the outside of the ribs and the buffalo running for the border and probably kissing it goodbye.

Agree Steve
Lost one that way
Beeline straight for the border

Yes and yes.

Go with the 300grs and stick with the TSX.

Have you been assigned your PH yet? I know that Johnnie Johnson will want you to use solids. Dont know about Paul Wellock or Ryan Cliffe.

JTEX said it well on the TSX being long for the weight. They are also extra tough so retained weight is often 95 percent or greater. See if you can borrow five 300 grain TSX from a nearby hunter. I bet you bring home at least three of them. Otherwise, use the 270 grain cartridges, shoot well, and neither you nor the buffalo will know the difference.

Also, a newly purchased CZ 9.3x62 shoots Federal TSX and banded solids to the same point of impact.

Using a .375 and 300 grain Swift A-Frames or Trophy Bonded Bear Claws I have shot 4 buff. Perfect expansion and penetration. However, I would heed Steve Shakari's advice on frontal chest shots.

Dutch

I can personally testify to the wisdom of Steve's advice on full frontal shots. My first buff was facing me full on at about 40 yards. I hit him just a little off center with a 300gr TSX from my 375 and he was off. And off. And off.

A very expensive lesson learned, indeed.

I guarantee whatever you choose, when you start to squeeze that trigger on your first Buff you will wish you had chosen the bigger bullet weight!!!!
You should also heed Steve Shakari's comments about the frontal shot !!
Listen to your PH closely and don't rush any choices.
You will love the experience, - go enjoy !!

I have shot a dozen + buffalo and some of my quickest, cleanest kills have been with the .375 in both H&H and Ruger configurations. I seriously doubt a 1500 pound bull can tell if he has been hit with 30 grains more of TSX than not. But, unless the 270 grains shoot much more accurately than the 300 grainers, why not step up?

I think Steve hit on the real key in this whole thread, take only a shot that you are assured will hit the vitals on a buffalo. Iffy shots usually spell misery, for you and the buff...

Broadside shots in the bottom third of the shoulder usually means a short trek to find or finish your bull.

I have seen bulls drop to a single shot from a 9.3 and run after being pounded by a .50 caliber. Shot placement and bullet performance are the key... plus a little luck.

I've only taken one buffalo, but I went with heavy for caliber 350 grain TSX bullets traveling at moderate velocities (2150 fps) in my .375 H&H and had no regrets. Expansion was as shown and both bullets (one fired at about 70 yards and the other from 10-15 yards) penetrated one shoulder and were recovered on the off-side shoulder, just beneath the hide. I like the idea of the additional momentum offered by the extra 50 grains (over the 300 grain bullets usually found) and as you can see, there was no loss of expansion.

Load? I can only squeeze enough W760 in my .375 Wby under long 350-grainers. Thanks

Barry

I like a .40 calibre and 400 grains, but if I was going to use a .375, I'd use the heaviest bullet weight available. Assuming it shot as well. Never shot a buffalo with a solid, but I'd take some for all of the reasons mentioned above.

I hunted buff last August in the Save with Barrie Duckworth of Mokore Safaris. He advised me to use 300 gr solids ( Hornady DGS factory loads) in my .375 Ruger. These performed flawlessly. The initial shot was a broadside heart pass through at
35 yards. The bull turned and crossed a dry sand riverbed as I put 3 more into him as he angled away. He dropped dead on the far bank. All 3 were recovered and appeared nearly as new.

I prefer standard weight bullets in the caliber I use.

And for the 375, I have been using nothing but 300 grains.

Used solids over 30 years ago on buffalo.

Never again.

As modern copper bullets penetrate just as much, and cause a lot more damage.

Ever since, we have been using either Barnes X, or our own Walterhogs.



They have accounted for several hundred buffalo, shot from every direction, even in the tail.

In the .375, all I have ever used is 300 grain bullets.

The only buff I have shot with a .375 have been with the TSX, although I have shot PG with the TBBC in the .375.

That being said, unless the PH has a real issue with them, the 270 grain TSX will work as well. You get a couple hundred more FPS, so it will shoot a little flatter, and I don't think the penetration difference is that significant.

Placing the bullet in the right place is much more an issue. Confidence is important. Use whichever you would rather. Spend some time learning where the vitals are on a buffalo (such as the perfect shot book.)

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
With that chambering there is no such thing as softs because even the TSX`s will turn into solids once they hit a one ton buff..If you where using a 500gr bullet then you could refer to them and a bunch of others as softs.I would consider using a solid like a Woodleigh FMJ or a Hornady FMJ(my favorite).I would use Hornady FMJ for my 500 NE but I have a bunch of Woodleighs and they will do..
When you have a rifle calibre that begins with 3 and you want to shoot softs I would stick to smaller game especially if the bullet grains start with 2.

I would listen closely to George, the wannabees here attack him but he knows his shit.

44 posts and you already made the ignore list - that could be a record.

Put in the right pace, a 270 grn TSX will work but without a doubt, the most effective .375 'buffalo bullet' out there is still the 380 grain Rhino. I've seen a whole bunch of buff shot with them and they produce permanent wound channels the size of my forearm. I've recovered many from buffalo and their final expanded diameter is as large as those of my .505 and Stewart Hi-Performers. In the USA these bullets are not easy to get hold of but a close second for effectiveness is the 350 grn North Fork SP. These 350's expand to a larger final diameter than most other 300's and they possess more momentum so penetration is just as good. Permanent wound channel size equates pretty closely to three times the size of the bullet's final expanded diameter so the larger in diameter a bullet expands, the bigger by a factor of three, is the hole left behind. If this hole is through the heart/lung area, (the best area is just above the heart through all the 'plumbing') death is very quick forthcoming.

I still prefer better-penetrating bullets for backing shots because many are from the going away angles and the rumen often gets in the way. I have recovered enough expanded soft points from rumen content to know just what a formidable obstacle this median can be. North Forks Cup Nosed Solids are in my opinion the best option for buffalo backing shots. The give better penetration that expanding bullets, but they are unlikely to exits (as a conventional solid will sometimes do) should the back-up shot to shot be from side-on. So my final recommendation for the most effective .375 'buffalo combination' would be a 350 grn NF SP for the first shot, to be followed up with 350 NF CNS's if there may be time for them. In the region of 2350 fps should be your target velocity and it is easy to attain this in the .375 H&H.
But having said this, the best buffalo bullet is 'perfect first shot placement'. Frontal shots are probably the most common and they are very effective but as already mentioned there is little margin for left or right placement error. From side-on, the middle of the vital triangle shot produces more one-shot kills than any other. All this is covered in great detail in Africa's Most Dangerous.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Some hunters, both PH's and clients, believe in solids for the second and following shots, some don't.

I would suggest following the recommendation of your PH. He may have a strong opinion one way or the other, and his confidence in you and your rifle and ammo are important, imo.

I would step up to the 300 grainers, but you don't need to.

Also, even if your PH wants all TSX's and no solids on the buff, you ought to bring a few solids in case you have an opportunity at a small antelope, like a klipspringer or a grysbok. The solid won't tear up the little critters.

For example, here is a very, very nice grysbok, with excellent horns (believe it or not!,) shot with a 375H&H using a 300gr Woodleigh solid:


JPK


JPK

That has to be some sort of record? Well done and just proves that solids are worth carrying on your belt.

Softs and solid is old terminology and as Saeed has pointed out bullet construction has come a long way since. Him having shot a few hundred Buffalo then I would heed his advice.

great stuff guys. My plan for now is to load and spend lots of time shooting 300 grain TSX. I'll be looking for (testing) solids to try to find one with the same point of impact. I'm told the PHs where I'll be prefer nothing but solids on buffalo. I'd like to be prepared either way.

I have shot only one Buffalo so very little experience so take it for what want. 416 Rigby using a woodleigh 400grn Hydrostatic, Shot from front on into the chest. Buff ran 50 yards and fell over stone dead. Plenty of blood all around him.

I would go with whatever you are confident with from the 270grn and up. But would have some solids.

Want to have both worlds then North Fork cup points. 300grs. and they will penetrate and tear apart. Check them out.
http://www.northforkbullets.co...ts/375-300-cps.html/

Mike

Regarding bullets: THIS might be of interest to you.

Doctari,

Do you know of a good load for the 380 using hodgdons powders? I was given some Rhinos that I would like to try on a water buffalo cull, but load data is a little sparse to non existent. I mention hodgdons because I can get the ADI eqivilents in Australia

Per load data question from Dogleg, I called Hodgdon for load assistance and Bruce Hodgdon worked it out for me. This was 20 or more years ago and Mr. Hodgdon has passed away. I would be surprised if someone there is not equally accommodating. They used their test equipment to confirm the internal and external ballistics. Very nice family to deal with.

Worth a shot.

quote:

Originally posted by 163bc:
great stuff guys. My plan for now is to load and spend lots of time shooting 300 grain TSX. I'll be looking for (testing) solids to try to find one with the same point of impact. I'm told the PHs where I'll be prefer nothing but solids on buffalo. I'd like to be prepared either way.

163bc,

I have killed four cape buffalo and each was with solids only, as some PH's prefer.

Two died extremely quickly, - one DRT from a high shoulder shot followed, as it fell, with a heart shot, one within 15yds from a frontal shot followed by a shoulder shot, the hole in the front was spurting a caliber size stream of blood - one died quickly, within 50yds or so, of a quartering to heart shot but he dropped from a spine shot from the rear as he was running away, and one that wasn't shot so well that took some long tracking and finishing.

Three were shot with Woodleigh solids and one a combination of Woodleigh and North Fork solids. Caliber was 458wm.

If you are going to load some solids, you really ought to look at the North Forks, either their FN solids or their cup nose solids.

Sometimes I can get softs and solids from different manufacturers and of different weight shooting close without a lot of effort, sometimes it's a pita. But with the choices you have for solids, Woodleigh, Barnes, North Fork, it shouldn't be too hard.


Fairgame,

Thanks, I haven't had him scored, but those who know grysbok, and that wouldn't include me, have told me he is a brute.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by 163bc:
great stuff guys. My plan for now is to load and spend lots of time shooting 300 grain TSX. I'll be looking for (testing) solids to try to find one with the same point of impact. I'm told the PHs where I'll be prefer nothing but solids on buffalo. I'd like to be prepared either way.

In my 375 the Barnes solids will shoot to the same POI as the TSX with a slight power adjustment. I can look it up but i think 2 grains less.

FYI I will be at the same camp a month before you.