quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:

quote:

Originally posted by corne Omujeve:
I personally hate a blaser.... Had lots of problems of the years with blasers from AD to miss fires and actions that get stuck because of dust and sand... It is over priced and not as good as the price might suggest.

You can buy much better for that money. The action is NOT faster than normal bolt actions and I will challange anybody to prove me wrong - I have done it a couple of times with clients...

Pull bolt back, push bolt forward, squeeze trigger. 3 actions.

Push bolt up, pull bolt back, push bolt forward, push bolt down, pull trigger. 5 actions.

It is impossible to be faster performing 5 actions as opposed to 3.

IME the Blaser is about 40+% faster to operate which makes sense because it requires about 40% less actions to cycle.

Geoff:

Without doubt the Blaser action is probably the quickest on the planet but the most reliable (IMO) will always be the classic Mauser 98.
Furthermore, there has to be a reason as to why the big names in the gun industry chose to build their rifles on this action and, does one really need that extra 40% reloading speed?
I am a firm believer in reliability over versatility.

I used to take anecdotal evidence like top gun makers using M98 actions as proof that they were the best. I think they are what most people want and what people expect but I no longer believe they are the best.

Far and away the most common issues I have seen with rifles are issues with the claw extractor not grabbing rounds or not ejecting correctly or feed issues due to the staggard magazine.

Neither or these features are present in Sauer 202s or Blaser R93s.

IME the single stack design of both rifles has proven to be far simple and 100% reliable for me. I can not say the same for CRF staggard magazine rifles.

Even if the reloading speed and reliabity of the 202 and R93 was not better then CRF rifles the ability to switch barrels, the scope mounting system, the ability to quickly take them down, and the accuracy make it impossible for CRF to compete.

Guys FWIW just my 2c – I am draging that damn thing around for nearly 15 years now and I am yet to see its first hiccup – no flies there – as Tony said – from Zim's October to snowy Alps, no probs whatsoever – just a dull boring efficiency. In fact it is that same dullness that may just be the biggest void of the said weapon. It is like choosing a driveway – going to work I take a highway – if there is a job to be done R93 goes along.



On weekends however I am all for a side or even off road – hunting with a scopeless double takes over.



As Ivan said:

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
they are fast and very functional - the rest comes down to personal preference

Ganyana i miss a lot your wonderfull Mauser 9,3 that was my company for some days.
We carry rifles in condition one mostly czs and Mausers but i have had many clients and pupils with Blasers ,and i saw them again in a driven hunt in Poland ,i believe you need to train with the new sistem ,but most of the ADs i have had were man fault ,never with a Blaser.Personally i dont like them but i believe its personal taste.

Interesting program on, right now(9:30 PM ET) "Remington Under Fire" about ADs with Remington 700's on CNBC.
Peter.

A Remington 700 is probably the most unsafe rifle there is...

Yet you do not hear about PH's not wanting their clients to hunt with them...

And for the record, I have seen several hundred Remington 700 shot a BUNCH over the years [Most all LEO Sniper Rifles, and many competition rifles are Rem 700's], and never seen any trigger issues personally.

I have also only seen 2 rifles that had extracter issues.

I have seen some "AD's" with different brands of bolt rifles, all shooter caused.

Most often is is a "fire on close".

When these occur at the range, many times the instructor wioll see that the shooter was working the bolt and let one of his fingers get to the trigger as the bolt was closed.

When these happen in the field, usually no one is watching the shooter when it happens, and the shooter does not realize what he has done.

One time when instructing a group for Zoo Dangerous Animal Escapes, a fella was shooting a rifle in 375 H&H. He was shooting kneeling and after his first shot he lowered the rifle to work the bolt, [it was not a speed fire event]. I was watching. As heclosed the bolt his second finger hit the trigger, the rifle fired, and kicked out of his gras and landed in the dirt behing him.

Now Most likely IF I had not seen HIM hit the trigger, it would have been blamed on a mechanical malfunction of the rifle...

Most all "AD'S" are shooter caused... IMHO of course.

I have a R93 in 375 HH. It is very accurate and very comfortable to carry and shoot. I love the light weight and excellent light trigger. I used it last year in SA on giraffe, hartebeest, blesbuck, zebra, nyala, and an ostrich. This year in Botswana on gemsbok. My PH loves it and neither he nor I have had any AD's with it nor has my PH had any AD's with any other client's blaser. I have an extra barrel in 338 win mag but haven't used it yet. My only issue with it was when I was mounting the scope. I thought I could do it myself but the scope jumped the rings a couple of times so I had a gunsmith take a look. He had to lap the rings and once this was done I had no more issues. I'm considering a R8 in 416 rem for buffalo in Zambia next yr. Kinda want something different so I may get a Dakota. That being said I really like my blaser.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
A Remington 700 is ribably the most unsafe rifle there is...

Yet you do not hear about PH's not wanting their clients to hunt with them...

And for the record, I have seen several hundred Remington 700 shot a BUNCH over the years [Most all LEO Sniper Rifles, and many competition rifles are Rem 700's], and never seen any trigger issues personally.

I have also only seen 2 rifles that had extracter issues.

I own one of those Remingtons with extractor issues. It screwed up on a self guided Brown Bear hunt. Luckily the first shot was good enough to allow me to fish the brass out and reload.

Getting back to the original question I love the Blaser and would love to see the new R8 in action. Love the balance, length and the trigger.

They are fast the safety is good the only drawback we have seen is guys reloading too quickly and not chambering and then we hear the mighty "CLICK" which is usually folowed by some cursing from the hunter and us having a good laugh and drink around the fire about it.

Blaser precision trigger
Thanks to the excellent, crisp characteristics of the R8 trigger and the extremely short release time, it turns the shooter‘s thought impulse into an accurate shot. The R8 trigger immediately breaks „crisp as glass“ at a trigger weight of 1.5 lbs.

The gun I priced today was 3500.... WOW!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:
Personally I bought all of the push feed vs. control feed bullshit you read on this site hook line and sinker. I have owned everything from pre 1964 Winchester model 70s to Mauser 98s but BAR NONE the best feeding rifles I have owned are Sauer 202s and Blaser R93s. The superiority of an inline magazine in terms of feeding can not be matched with a staggard magazine.

On top of that the 202 and R93 are ridiculously accurate right out of the box and have wonderful triggers.

They are also a dream to travel with since they take down into nice, neat, and compact packages.

I have hunted with both CRF rifles and Blaser/Sauer rifles and find the Blaser and Sauers to be superior rifles in almost every respect.

I must admit one of the slickest guns I ever handled was a Sauer. Also oozes quality.

The conclusion has to be that Blaser are great guns and the faults can simply be put down to human error.

Just out of interest has anyone ever heard of a rifle being recalled due to a fault?

Andrew,

They recalled the R93s (or certainly a lot of them) to change a pin in the trigger..... once it was done, they gave an additional 5 year (or so) guarantee.

I never found out what the problem was with mine because they changed everything but I'm 1000% sure the fault was not pilot error.

I think they're a great rifle for hunters but wouldn't have another one that got used as a loaner etc and nor would I cut the rifle any slack on the safety front simply because the design is supposedly safer.

IMO

On the plus side they're easy to travel with, have a fantastic QD scope mount, are very accurate and have a brilliant trigger.

On the other side of the coin, I'm charry of them because of the problem I had and I have to admit, I find them fugly...... they look to me like they'd be more at home on the grassy knoll than in the hunting field.

Admittedly, that last comment refers to the black plastic stocked version.

Steve they called all the R93's in then, but vast majority just for inspection. Reason was there was a small amount of steel pins (that were suppose to be stainless) provided by subtractor that were installed. Since it may rust it might be the very cause of some AD's that were mentioned? I don't know I am guessing. Anyway I was present when they checked mine - smith took the trigger mechanism apart and checked the pin with a magnet - it didn't react (stainless steel with added nickel is non-magnetic) so he just put it back together (I don't recall if he changed the pin anyway) and stamped a small P on the side of the trigger and that was it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by corne Omujeve:
and actions that get stuck because of dust and sand... QUOTE]

ha, funny you say that. on the last hunt where i took a French booking agent to my area i had the same kak.... we were driving along the river when we spotted a monster buff along the dirt track, jumped out and told the Frenchman to follow. the bulls had moved off about 100 yrds from their origional position and were just parking off looking at the direction of the truck, we were 30 yrds from them and there was a MONSTER of well of 44" - needless to say i put the sticks up and tell the Frenchman paste the one on the left.... then he starts having a full on brawl with his rifle - same thing action stuck and couldnt feed the round in.... the bulls took one look at this man battling with his bang stick and departed in high revs.....

I'd bet that dust, sand and heat are exclusively in the heads of the unfamiliar users - as much as I have seen so far there are 2 mistakes that nonexperienced users perform:

1. Opening uncocked bolt - in the heat of the moment user forgets that he has to push the safety a bit before pulling back the bolt:



...with PH hot on their neck they simply forget this small feature and pull the bolt fruitlessly - of course it is never their fault - it is a damn rifle.

2. When closing the bolt - slam the bolt ALL the way - HARD - it is not going to brake or something! Many don't push it all the way - bolt remains open and instead of a BOOM you get a CLICK when bolt closes completely.

Mouse

That's exactly what they did to the pin on my one as well but the ADs happened after the pin change.......

I agree that a lot of slow ups with the Blaser are caused by a touch of pilot error in the excitement of the moment but get a good man who'd experienced with a Blaser and they can damn near belt feed the thing.

I hunted in Uganda with an Irishman a little while ago and he could make that Blaser of his sound almost like an auto.

Unfortunately, so could the guy who let 3 shots off right next to my damn ear with his braked 416 blaser a few years ago.

He managed to get all 3 shots off faster than I could drop my binos and get my finger in my ear!

He obvoiusly didn't understand the term 'wait'.

The worst peace of junk that has ever come out of a gun factory!

More Blasers have blown up than probably most rifles combined!

Had a visit from a gunsmith from Germany. He knew of at least 28 accidents with the Blaser.

Walter loves it, which means there is another reason for me not to like it.

quote:

The worst peace of junk that has ever come out of a gun factory!

+1

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
The conclusion has to be that Blaser are great guns and the faults can simply be put down to human error.

Just out of interest has anyone ever heard of a rifle being recalled due to a fault?

Seems like I going to have withdraw that conclusion.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
The conclusion has to be that Blaser are great guns and the faults can simply be put down to human error.

Just out of interest has anyone ever heard of a rifle being recalled due to a fault?

Seems like I going to have withdraw that conclusion.

No need to - never underestimate people's "geniality", if you still have doubts remember what Einstein had to say about the only two infinite things...

Remember I am a simple PH and have no interest in another blokes genitals.

Little smiley yellow face.

Thanks for the different views. For now, I think I will rather use the money for a hunt. Ganyana thanks for the reply it makes perfectly sense especially in your situations where your business and reputation depends on the fact that your clients remain safe and unharmed.

I did not see the whole program "Remington under fire" but the problems were NOT caused by pressing the trigger. In fact the USMC provided videos of cocking the rifle and then just touching the bolt fired the weapon. Remington has NOT claimed user error in all these cases. In fact, I believe that they claimed improper maintenance. Perhaps someone can download the program via pod cast or something and let us know.
Edited to add: http://www.cnbc.com/id/1584023...eo=1616222630&play=1
On my Blaser 93 I do NOT have to touch the "cocking" lever to open the bolt!??? Are Blasers more prone to dust issues than other bolt actions?
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
On my Blaser 93 I do NOT have to touch the "cocking" lever to open the bolt!???

Peter make sure that rifle is NOT cocked (On Safe) and try again. You can not pull (open) the bolt without pushing the safety slide when rifle is "On Safe" - bolt is locked (see fig and read the manuals). It is a logic feature - if it can be pulled without pushing the safety slide your rifle would be opening and ejecting with first branch you will be able to snag.

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
On my Blaser 93 I do NOT have to touch the "cocking" lever to open the bolt!???

Peter make sure that rifle is NOT cocked (On Safe) and try again. You can not push the bolt without pushing the safety slide when rifle is "On Safe" - bolt is locked (see fig and read the manuals). It is a logic feature - if it can be pulled without pushing the safety slide your rifle would be opening and ejecting with first branch you will be able to snag.

mouse93,

Try and remember that when you have a buffalo burrowing up your nostril.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Walter loves it, which means there is another reason for me not to like it.

Isn't that interesting.

After more than 40 years shooting, I think the most relevant thing about problems with firearms, similar to problems with cars, is looking at the "nut behind the wheel!"

Now as for me, I go to a pre-64 Model 70 where ever possible. Not too expensive and smooth as glass.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Try and remember that when you have a buffalo burrowing up your nostril.

I have never had an issue with that - if you put only average time in your rifle it becomes second nature - I don't even remember I am doing it - it is like holding a tongue of a shoe before you put the shoe on. Have in mind I used this rifle and this only for 10 years with 200 outings/year (half of those in the night time - not counting range sessions).

quote:

Originally posted by mouse93:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Try and remember that when you have a buffalo burrowing up your nostril.

I have never had an issue with that - if you put only average time in your rifle it becomes second nature - I don't even remember I am doing it - it is like holding a tongue of a shoe before you put the shoe on. Have in mind I used this rifle and this only for 10 years with 200 outings/year (half of those in the night time - not counting range sessions).

mouse93,

Totally agree with you and my comment was in jest.

Note there are some who come to Africa with new rifles that have never been or little fired?

I then put up a target on a big tree in front of an anthill. If they hit the anthill me and the trackers clap our hands enthusiastically.

If the R83 is so good why have Blaser brought out the new improved rifle the R8

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The worst peace of junk that has ever come out of a gun factory!

Saeed, many of us say the same about the Remington 700.

1)one of our members bought a 338wm and 270 he has been struggling for months he still cant get the them to group the 338 is the best of the 2. after trying almost every bullet and load the best group he got was 1 moa at 100m. he sent the rifles back to Germany but they just wasn't interested to sort it out and said 2moa is sufficient he is selling both and building a proper rifle
2) one of my clients was aiming at an impala with his blaser 30 06 i saw him ejecting a bullet and then firing. when i asked him why he did that he said the bullet did not go off. the primer wasn't even hit. when we compared the bullets the primer was seated .5mm deeper than the others i found it very strange

but overall its not bad

What I experienced with fellow Hunters: some had trouble with the ignition (300 Win.mag.) but I cannot make a justment on the reason for that. Make up your own mind. Even more serious is the cocking mechanism: on European driven hunts I noticed several times that the mechanism was cocked in Order to Be ready because the Fingers did not have the required strength to operate the rifle as designed. On a hunt in the CAR the PH asked me to sight in an expensive R93 because the wealthy french lawyer was not up to the recoil of his very light 375. A friend of mine hunted Cameroon, the German PH had a 416 rem R 93, every evening it was cleaned with a brush in a clinical Way. My summary: maybe fine in Europe and hats off to blasers marketing but for dusty africa: forget it.

oldun, the R8 is available in serious African magnum calibers.
Peter.

mouse93, you are absolutely correct. Thanks very much. I guess I haven't had to eject a round before.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:
If the R83 is so good why have Blaser brought out the new improved rifle the R8

Why did Ford make a new Mustang? Why did Boeing come out with a 787? Why did Apple make an iphone 4? Nothing is perfect and everything can be improved.

The R8 added a better trigger, detachable magazine, and the ability to take calibers larger then 416 RM.

Some people like the changes some don't think they were needed.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The worst peace of junk that has ever come out of a gun factory!

Saeed, many of us say the same about the Remington 700.

Very true.
But, I would pick a Remington over a Blaser any day.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The worst peace of junk that has ever come out of a gun factory!

Astoundingly obnoxious & ignorant statement

I hunt with no other rifle and I think they are the best

quote:

Originally posted by cccombo:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The worst peace of junk that has ever come out of a gun factory!

Astoundingly obnoxious & ignorant statement

I hunt with no other rifle and I think they are the best

CCCOMBO,

Let me be the first to welcome you to the forum.

I'm sure you'll probably have noticed this is an enormous site that gives immense help to all hunters, shooters and many others and it's all provided completely free of charge courtesy of one very generous individual who is an absolute gentleman and a true hunter.

And please let me point out that you must have set a new record in managing to make an offensive remark to that individual on your very first post!



don't worry about it though. He has a huge sense of humour and I've no doubt he'll see the funny side!

Being from Aus, you should pick the dry humour .