quote:

Originally posted by jaegerfrank:
My summary: maybe fine in Europe and hats off to blasers marketing but for dusty africa: forget it.

In my experience with my own rifle and that of friends during many African and Australian hunts. THIS IS NOT SO.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:
If the R83 is so good why have Blaser brought out the new improved rifle the R8

Sales, man.
But just like the Toyota Prado, I prefer the older model.

quote:

Originally posted by cccombo:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The worst peace of junk that has ever come out of a gun factory!

Astoundingly obnoxious & ignorant statement

I hunt with no other rifle and I think they are the best

I certainly give the Blazer the thumbs up. I was sceptical when I first saw a Blazer come out many many years back with Norbert Hansen. I was worried mainly about the flimsy looking plastic magazine and potential feeding problems.

It was a 458 Blazer which he had modified as Blazer at that time did not bring out a caliber bigger then 416. Well over 30 elephant later with Norberts 458 Blazer under all types of conditions we never had a problem.

I was also kindly given a 375 Blazer 3 odd years back by Dan McCarthy which numerous clients have used and once again no issues other then the recoil which is quite stiff as it is a very light gun.

As Ivan mentioned Rick Cook who probably shoots more ele bulls in Zim then any other Ph swears by his Blazer 416. I find them highly reliable and in compitent hands the safest rifle around.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by cccombo:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The worst peace of junk that has ever come out of a gun factory!

Astoundingly obnoxious & ignorant statement

I hunt with no other rifle and I think they are the best

Probably the most efficient and effective use of GRAEMLINS yet! Complete agreement from me!

quote:

Originally posted by cccombo:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The worst peace of junk that has ever come out of a gun factory!

Astoundingly obnoxious & ignorant statement

No, it's hyperbole. A rhetorical device.

Although I will grant you that anything said by anyone who would prefer a Remington over a Blaser is highly suspect.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
oldun, the R8 is available in serious African magnum calibers.
Peter.

Yes Peter I know that, but the only thing the R93 and the R8 have in common is that the scope mounts can be used on either rifle. Whilst there are simularities in style the R93 rifles' parts barrel, action, etc are not interchangeable with the R8. The change in shape of the bolt collet seems to me to be an improvement over the R93.I suppose the other changes are improvements too ergo my initial question.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by cccombo:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
The worst peace of junk that has ever come out of a gun factory!

Astoundingly obnoxious & ignorant statement

No, it's hyperbole. A rhetorical device.

Although I will grant you that anything said by anyone who would prefer a Remington over a Blaser is highly suspect.

Remember, it must be extremely frustrating for a gunsmith to come upon a factory rifle he can't improve.

Gentlemen, please don't all thank me at once but I have obtained the perfect smiley for all such threads and annoying Will especially.


I present:

"The Voice of Experience"

While we are on the subject of Client Rifles (remembering that I am a varmint hunter who doesn't really like anything over 100 grains.)

I recently found this story supposedly postulated by a 29 year old PH from Rodesia or some such. He reportedly is a fan of the old .404 Geoffrey (10.75x73mm Mauser). Round looks to me like an oversized .348 Winchester.

.416, .404, .375

Talk about dry humour, check this out!

quote:

“When a client shows up in camp with a .375 Holland & Holland, you immediately know that you have a practical and able chap as a customer, a wise and knowledgeable hunter who will listen to reason. When a client shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, you know that most likely the only experience the hunter has had is reading the pages of Outdoor Life magazine, probably 30-year-old editions. When a client shows up in camp with a Remington or a Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter’s experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter. When a client shows up with a double rifle, you know you have an elitist for a customer, much like the guy coming down the charter boat dock at the marina carrying a fly rod, and you approach him with caution. When a client shows up with a .416 Rigby, you know you have someone who has studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of dangerous-game hunting. And when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of building and loading a gun and cartridge long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. You take a liking to this guy immediately.”

I wonder what he would make of my Mark V rechambered in .330 Dakota with a Lilja three groove?

quote:

Originally posted by DMCI*:
While we are on the subject of Client Rifles (remembering that I am a varmint hunter who doesn't really like anything over 100 grains.)

I recently found this story supposedly postulated by a 29 year old PH from Rodesia or some such. He reportedly is a fan of the old .404 Geoffrey (10.75x73mm Mauser). Round looks to me like an oversized .348 Winchester.

.416, .404, .375

Talk about dry humour, check this out!

quote:

“When a client shows up in camp with a .375 Holland & Holland, you immediately know that you have a practical and able chap as a customer, a wise and knowledgeable hunter who will listen to reason. When a client shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, you know that most likely the only experience the hunter has had is reading the pages of Outdoor Life magazine, probably 30-year-old editions. When a client shows up in camp with a Remington or a Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter’s experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter. When a client shows up with a double rifle, you know you have an elitist for a customer, much like the guy coming down the charter boat dock at the marina carrying a fly rod, and you approach him with caution. When a client shows up with a .416 Rigby, you know you have someone who has studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of dangerous-game hunting. And when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of building and loading a gun and cartridge long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. You take a liking to this guy immediately.”

I wonder what he would make of my Mark V rechambered in .330 Dakota with a Lilja three groove?

He would probably nail you to the cross as a heretic

Probably a ring of truth in that statement.

I shooting last weekend and one of the guys had a R93 jam up solid after taking a shot..

No idea what went wrong, but he couldn't get the bolt to cycle despite much tugging ect...

Eventually, cleaning rod was produced and sent down the barrel and that was given a smart tap as he pulled back on the bolt, and the thing came free...

Case looked normal expect for a lot of black carbon around the neck...

Evedtently the straight pull design lacks the extraction power of a conventional bolt..

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
I shooting last weekend and one of the guys had a R93 jam up solid after taking a shot..

No idea what went wrong, but he couldn't get the bolt to cycle despite much tugging ect...

Eventually, cleaning rod was produced and sent down the barrel and that was given a smart tap as he pulled back on the bolt, and the thing came free...

Case looked normal expect for a lot of black carbon around the neck...

Evedtently the straight pull design lacks the extraction power of a conventional bolt..

Just re-enforces what I had said previously.

The worst peace of junk that has ever carried the name "rifle".

I have seen this happen in the field, first hand!

quote:

“ When a client shows up in camp with a a Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter’s experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter.

That's a load of horseshit right there and pretty much destroys the credibility of the entire statement." Tell it to Elgin Gates. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
I shooting last weekend and one of the guys had a R93 jam up solid after taking a shot..

No idea what went wrong, but he couldn't get the bolt to cycle despite much tugging ect...

Eventually, cleaning rod was produced and sent down the barrel and that was given a smart tap as he pulled back on the bolt, and the thing came free...

Case looked normal expect for a lot of black carbon around the neck...

Evedtently the straight pull design lacks the extraction power of a conventional bolt..

The Blaser rifle was originally designed, if not intended for use in European hunting where conditions are not comparable to Africa.
In Europe the hunter will trudge to his blind or stand (more often than not with the rifle still bundled up), assemble the rifle and wait for his quarry to appear, pop one, maybe two or at worst three shots, packs the weapon and goes home where it is totally dismantled, cleaned and stored until the next outing which are not that many as tags for Chamois, Stag, Roe Deer, etc. are very limited - certainly incomparable to what someone shoots on a typical African safari.

The normal "European Blaser" would probably never shoot more than 15% of what an "African Blaser" would in its lifetime - in fact most of the shots going through a "EB" barrel take place at the range

To lend credibility that Blaser was intended for hunting in the "western world" is backed by the fact that the original calibers were limited to .300 until someone 'pushed' Blaser to produce barrels chambered for .375 and later .416

Am not saying it is a total piece of crap as it is a fine piece of engineering, accurate as can be and extremely popular in Europe with a likely rating as the No.1 choice but IMO not the kind of rifle ideally suited for Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:

quote:

“ When a client shows up in camp with a a Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter’s experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter.

That's a load of horseshit right there and pretty much destroys the credibility of the entire statement." Tell it to Elgin Gates. jorge

Jorge:

While it may be still popular in the States the Weatherby seems to have lost its charisma over the last decade - hunters coming to Africa no longer seem to favour Weatherby as they once used to.

quote:

Originally posted by Pete E:
I shooting last weekend and one of the guys had a R93 jam up solid after taking a shot..

No idea what went wrong, but he couldn't get the bolt to cycle despite much tugging ect...

Eventually, cleaning rod was produced and sent down the barrel and that was given a smart tap as he pulled back on the bolt, and the thing came free...

Case looked normal expect for a lot of black carbon around the neck...

Evedtently the straight pull design lacks the extraction power of a conventional bolt..

A semi auto has a bolt as does a pump action rifle. The R 93 DOES NOT work like the usual "bolt action" rifle. It works more like a pump action gun even though it looks like a conventional bolt action gun. If the ammunition is assembled appropriately the R 93 like a pump action rifle works slick as snot. If the cases aren't resized correctly, you will not have the mechanical advantage in chambering it that you will with a conventional bolt gun.

So, if you don't want to use factory ammo and wish to use sloppy reloading practices, then don't buy a Blaser R 93 or R 8.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

While it may be still popular in the States the Weatherby seems to have lost its charisma over the last decade - hunters coming to Africa no longer seem to favour Weatherby as they once used to.

The reason Weatherbys had chrisma is because compared with other rifles, they were beautiful, expensive, shot expensive ammunition in beautiful boxes and shot ammunition that for each caliber was about the fastest available.

Now Weatherby has an economy line of rifles, chambers rifles for cartridges not its own and has a lot of competion for other manufactures of more expensive rifles with their own proprietary cartridges so its brand has lost some of its glimmer.

That said, not too long ago, I bought my first Weatherby; an unbraked 378 with beautiful wood and surprisingly light and I love it.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

The reason Weatherbys had chrisma is because compared with other rifles, they were beautiful, expensive, shot expensive ammunition in beautiful boxes and shot ammunition that for each caliber was about the fastest available.

That said, not too long ago, I bought my first Weatherby; an unbraked 378 with beautiful wood and surprisingly light and I love it.

You are so right on!

The thing missing in the Weatherby product can be summed up in two words:

Roy Weatherby

He not only was ahead of his time, but he marketed the heck out of his product. I got the Weatherby Annual when ever I could and thrilled at the photos and hunting pictures in it. His customers included the Shah (Who?), Roy Rodgers, and numerous others.

As has been suggested the product line has been diluted and adulterated by his heirs, but I loved my .378 as well, selling it to buy the .340, which I had the riflesmith convert to .330 Dakota when I got bored with the former.

I got a surprise a few years back when a client cocked an R93 behind me and the damn thing AD'd into the ground and I was hit in the back with a fist-sized lump of dried mud... I had a few choice words to say let me tell you!!

It turned out the owner had had quite a few AD's and it coincided with him getting the trigger tuned-up apparently...

I mentioned all this to a European gun writer later and he just chuckled and said that Blaser had had plenty of mechanical (safety) problems over the years... problems with the triggers and cocking mechanism.

How could you have start a forum thread about a firearm and have the words 'accidental discharge' repeated over and over again and there not be some unresolved issue in that regard???

I'm with Saeed... I wouldnt own one.... plenty of other great-quality, reliable firearms out there!!!

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
The Blaser rifle was originally designed, if not intended for use in European hunting where conditions are not comparable to Africa.
In Europe the hunter will trudge to his blind or stand (more often than not with the rifle still bundled up), assemble the rifle and wait for his quarry to appear, pop one, maybe two or at worst three shots, packs the weapon and goes home where it is totally dismantled, cleaned and stored until the next outing which are not that many as tags for Chamois, Stag, Roe Deer, etc. are very limited - certainly incomparable to what someone shoots on a typical African safari.

mate you have got to be kidding right ?

if not this is about as misinformed as it gets.

quote:

The normal "European Blaser" would probably never shoot more than 15% of what an "African Blaser" would in its lifetime - in fact most of the shots going through a "EB" barrel take place at the range

they dont go to the range that much

quote:

Am not saying it is a total piece of crap as it is a fine piece of engineering, accurate as can be and extremely popular in Europe with a likely rating as the No.1 choice but IMO not the kind of rifle ideally suited for Africa.

i agree you actually have to clean them at least once a year

peter

Matt, why on earth would someone want a "trigger job" on one of the finest factory triggers bar none?
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Matt, why on earth would someone want a "trigger job" on one of the finest factory triggers bar none?
Peter.

I dont know?? Just saying that he claimed a gunsmith had been messing with it...

They may be the greatest rifle to come down the trail. I'll never know cause I'll never buy one. They take relearning everything I've learned about bolt action rifles already. The one I looked at seemed poorly finished. The butt pad fit was terrible, worse that on most cheapo US made rifles. I'm not a fan of plastic internals either. And man are they ugly!

If one has a best quality M98, I can understand why they look down on Blasers, but for everybody else I can`t see why they do not like Blasers

Glad there are a variety of rifles on the market nowadays, one for everybody's taste.

I've had no issues with AD or Blaser. R93 is in my opinion at the top of the list. In my view there is no safer carry mode for one in the chamber and not cocked. Just don't be carrying it around cocked

Now, for all those who've never had a Blaser and will never buy one, suppose you'll never own a Remy 700 either or better yet insert your favorite rifle here because I'm sure there are AD stories on every rifle ever made, whether you've experienced them or not. JMHO, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

quote:

The Blaser rifle was originally designed, if not intended for use in European hunting where conditions are not comparable to Africa.
In Europe the hunter will trudge to his blind or stand (more often than not with the rifle still bundled up), assemble the rifle and wait for his quarry to appear, pop one, maybe two or at worst three shots, packs the weapon and goes home where it is totally dismantled, cleaned and stored until the next outing which are not that many as tags for Chamois, Stag, Roe Deer, etc. are very limited - certainly incomparable to what someone shoots on a typical African safari.

Am not saying it is a total piece of crap as it is a fine piece of engineering, accurate as can be and extremely popular in Europe with a likely rating as the No.1 choice but IMO not the kind of rifle ideally suited for Africa.

Feel I am reasonably qualified to comment on the above provocative quote having been hunting since old enough to walk and many years dealing and gunsmithing. I was fortunate enough to spend over a year in Southern Germany hunting during all four seasons with my forester friend and a well healed German Dentist both of whom I had befriended out here in New Zealand. While there I obtained a “jagdschein” (German hunting licence) so was able to hunt on my own in my friends or other invited hunting blocks both in the ‘Black Forest’ and other areas of Germany when visiting friends. Also forayed into Austria to Ferlach and up into their Alps.

My forester and dentist friends eventually immigrated to NZ. Between them they both possessed many fine German and Austrian firearms but these did show up a few short comings when subject to hunting conditions not experienced in that part of Europe. I had to make a new extractor for a Ferlach single shot when it broke in use hunting here in NZ and the stock broke clean in half on another of these expensive guns on another hunting expedition.

My forester friend’s final rifle of choice for the tough NZ hunting conditions? A plastic stocked Mannlicher Professional in 7 x 64 with a low mounted scope in Weaver blocks and rings and a single trigger. I converted a few of his rifles to this configuration while in Germany (including the Professional Mannlicher) by getting the Weaver mounts and rings sent from NZ. Actually removed some of the oddity rings from the German scopes and machined off the built in clamp rails on some to fit Weaver rings to. My forester friend was not too proud to admit our way with scope mounting and single triggers was best when the going got tough but the German dentist moved in a different circle of friends where it just wouldn’t be the done thing old boy (yes the English stiff upper lip reigns in Germany too).

One trip to NZ under our conditions and they soon realized the short comings and fragility of some of those ‘finest’ European designed and made firearms and once living here their perspective changed quickly. I do concur with Fujotupu in his quote above and think African conditions would sort the men from the boys when it comes to the reliability of firearms.

At the end of the day the old Mauser is still the firearm supreme that did come from Europe and is the basis of many of the finest bolt actions available now.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
They take relearning everything I've learned about bolt action rifles already. The one I looked at seemed poorly finished. The butt pad fit was terrible, worse that on most cheapo US made rifles.

In a country where the firearms industry is declining, but still vigorous enough to offer the marksman a choice (Winchester, Remington, Ruger, Browning, Armalite, etc.) we fortunately do not have limited pickings like those loyal to German production. We also have enough cowboy riflesmiths that will build anything you want for considerably less than the price of some European rifles.

I have 4 r93s, s2 double rifle, K95 stutzen and an r8. All have demonstrated spectactular accuracy out of the box, total reliability an no malfunctions of any kind. No AD's.

I have over several thousand rounds through blaser rifles without any issues.

I will continue to use them and recommend them without reservation.

quote:

Originally posted by seant:
I have over several thousand rounds through blaser rifles without any issues.

I will continue to use them and recommend them without reservation.

Frankly, that is a pretty intense first post!

So in fairness, I downloaded the R8 catalog from the US site. I can see the features of the rifle and the benefits from a pretty technologically advance weapon. Little things like removable trigger/magazine group and the remote turn on of reticule illumination on Zeiss scope and the variety of system configurations that are interchangeable and the really interesting take down system, etc.

I now understand both Saeed and Walters’s opinions. Walter being a German Technical person likes the technical innovation, and Saeed being a technically conservative person (no reflection on his politics.) has an innate distrust of too much innovation when shooting involves dangerous game or similar.

quote:

Originally posted by Dom:

Now, for all those who've never had a Blaser and will never buy one, suppose you'll never own a Remy 700 either or better yet insert your favorite rifle here because I'm sure there are AD stories on every rifle ever made, whether you've experienced them or not. JMHO, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

I have a Remington custom shop 375 H&H (mountain rifle) and it is as slick as baby shit and one of the most reliable guns you could ever use!!! I also own 5 other 375's - but I would never buy a Blaser.... Zero chance of a AD with my Remmy and no wierd plastic bits - just a solid rifle!!

quote:

Zero chance of a AD with my Remmy

Interesting observation!
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Graham:
I have a Remington custom shop 375 H&H (mountain rifle) and it is as slick as baby shit

Baby shit must be different on the bottom side of the world. Up here it typically has the "slickness" of Velcro.

quote:

Originally posted by DMCI*:
So in fairness, I downloaded the R8 catalog from the US site. I can see the features of the rifle and the benefits from a pretty technologically advance weapon. Little things like removable trigger/magazine group and the remote turn on of reticule illumination on Zeiss scope and the variety of system configurations that are interchangeable and the really interesting take down system, etc.

I can hardly wait for Walter to give this new model the

I returned from Africa two weeks ago with my R93..9 animals no problems. Had a 375 H&H and 243 for the small ones. Also use it for deer in the US, No problems. There has been a lot of press about the Rem 700 AD's lately, yet they are used all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
I was also kindly given a 375 Blazer 3 odd years back by Dan McCarthy which numerous clients have used and once again no issues other then the recoil which is quite stiff as it is a very light gun.

Free FROM 500grains!

It seems that a fair number of the Blaser's with "trigger problems" may have had experts tamper with them?

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
It seems that a fair number of the Blaser's with "trigger problems" may have had experts tamper with them?

Good point

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
It seems that a fair number of the Blaser's with "trigger problems" may have had experts tamper with them?

Good point. A local gunsmith, who is very capable with repairs and modifications to more typical gun designs, once looked at my R93 and commented "What the...?" He freely admitted that he knew nothing about it and would prefer not to work on one, i.e. he didn't want to experiment and perhaps damage the gun, or create an unsafe condition.

Maybe more gunsmiths should admit when they are getting in over their heads. Come to think of it, this may be the main negative feature of this gun...the difficulty of finding a capable person to do repair work, should it become necessary.

And just for the record, the gun was working perfectly (as always) and I wasn't looking to have any work done. The gent in question had merely asked to look at the rifle when he heard that I had it.

John

Hi All,
I just would like to shar my own experience.I am now the happy owner of one R8 and I enjoy with it
I have had some years ago a R93 and I was happy with it till I met the same discharging issue (without lake of experience with the safety system ).
That is why I have sold it but with some regrets; so when the R8 arrived the first thing I have looked at was the trigger system (which has been significantly modified), then I decided to buy it and I do not have any problem with.
In my opinion, this problem came from the trigger system and the gunsmith should have to send the rifle to Isny instead of only to change the bolt.
Nevertheless I have some friends who have a R93 and never have met any problem.
Regards

quote:

Originally posted by RayRay:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
It seems that a fair number of the Blaser's with "trigger problems" may have had experts tamper with them?

Good point

I agree with a former comment that the Blasers trigger is one of the best on the market.
The trigger of my R93 breaks at ca 800 gramm (ca 1.75 pound) I never experienced any problems with it.
A lot of European hunters are used to set triggers that break around 150 to 250 gramm (0.3 to 0.55 pounds). When they buy a Blaser they have problems with the stronger R93 trigger release. This happened to a friend of mine who complained about the “stiff” Blaser trigger. He was trying to get a set trigger. And yes, set triggers are available for R93’s on the market but Blaser strongly advises against it. In fact, the factories warranty expires if you install a set trigger.
By the way: I use rifles since about 60 years. I never needed a set trigger to hit something and I positively hate those things!
Hans