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You think you can convince the antis the difference between low fence and high fence? Good luck![/QUOTE] No, I would not try as I suspect that they believe all hunting to be bad. | |||
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The anti-hunting crowd wants ALL hunting stopped and banned. The nut jobs in CA & TX are pushing a bill to prohibit the importation of ALL CITES or endangered/threatened wildlife. It's one animal at a time; one gun at a time. Once they succeed in that project, they're on to the next ban: no forks or knives, eat with your hands. Meanwhile, for the most part, we hunters are doing the anti crowds work; disagreeing, and in-fighting among ourselves. And just think: $19 per month for the "animal rights" groups times several million emotional midgets. That buys a lot of politicians aka: Law Makers! Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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ALWAYS FUNNY HOW SOUTH Africa Gets bashed on here ... and then you read ' German Hunters go to Namibia because of the fences'.... maybe those German hunters should visit a game auction some time here in South Africa and see how many Namibian buyers are there... I also wonder where Namibia's big numbers of Sable Nyala Blesbok IS COMMING FROM.... I ALSO WONDER WHY THE Namibian GAME FARMERS ARE FIGHTING THE GOVERMENT, to allow them buffalo on there properties... wonder where all those buffalo will come from. I am sure all these sable that are bought here on AUCTION are just released in the wild again..... maybe those German hunters should be told the truth sometime... Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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And nobody ever says a word about the BIG STAGS in New Zealand never ever, plenty of game farms in Zambia Zimbabwe Mozambique Botswana, Texas Spain Colorado Canada. I agree with Zaeed the antis will never stop and all they need to do is sit and watch how all our infighting will destroy us all in the end. Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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European hunters don't know any better because most of their hunting has been conducted on fenced reserves or "put and take" shoots where birds are concerned. Same applies to Spanish "monterias" or other similar driven hunts for both Stag and Boar in Eastern Europe. There are a limited bunch (the extra fit) that might go up into the craggy mountains (definitely no fences up there) for Chamois. Most European hunters know bugger all and could care less about the traditional African safaris that most other hunters crave for. So yes there is a market for this section of "hunters". | |||
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That might be for the most mate. My son just returned from Spain working for the Ferragut family and their policy is fair chase on foot for game and fly only for fish. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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European hunters don't know any better because most of their hunting has been conducted on fenced reserves[/QUOTE] That’s a downright lie of course, not worthwhile to discuss it any further. | |||
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That’s a downright lie of course, not worthwhile to discuss it any further.[/QUOTE] Please enlighten us where in Europe one can hunt truly wild animals, far away froM civilization? | |||
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as Fulvio mentionned chamois in the mountain come to my mind. free range and wild for sure. | |||
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The idea that there is no free range hunting in Europe is utter nonsense. Vast areas of the Highlands of Scotland are open with no fences and the deer wander freely from property to property. I live in Ireland and the same applies all over the country, there are no game fences, only two or three stands of wire to hold farmers livestock, which are no obstacle for the wild animals. | |||
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I agree, there are literally hundreds of land torteses here where I live on a low-fenced cattle farm. I've never seen, nor even heard of one, jumping over such a fence. OTOH I've personally seen springbok, steenbok, duiker, blesbok, gemsbok and eland easily jump over or crawl through or creep underneath (tortoises)such low cattle fences. Care to name a few of the animals, other than domestic cattle, that you classify as "unable to jump a low cattle fence?" Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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Yup - Been there, done it, in Val Formazza (Monte Rosa), Italian Alps and most certainly not a walk in the park nor a guaranteed shot (you only get one chance) miss and you pack up and go back the next day.  Done Roe Deer and Boar in different reserves as well: BS hunting! but if one knows no better its not their fault and am not criticizing them either. Also done Woodcock, Chukkar, Partridge and Quail in Turkey with a Pointer - now that is totally wild bird hunting at its best. | |||
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Please enlighten us where in Europe one can hunt truly wild animals, far away froM civilization?[/QUOTE] In France you can hunt wild animals, in most of the country. Far away from civilisation means nothing in the context of wild animals moving from any area they want to any other area they want. Almost all the forest area in France has wild game. In terms of "big game" in France you are pretty much limited to wild boar, roe deer, stag and chamois. Huntable animals in France are res nullus, meaning that no one owns them, even if they are on your property. It is possible, if you have a walled property of a certain minimal size, to contain game on your property. And by the way, anybody who has a hunting licence in France knows this, it's part of the test hunters have to take. In France you actually have to know the law and know the animals and their environment before you are even close to being able to pass the test. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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Same in Germany, Austria and most likely the same in all the other countries of the European community. I have a German hunting license since 1973, have also hunted in Italy, Slovenia and England. Everywhere the same. No bloody high fences like in South Africa. | |||
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i ve seen high wall in France and Austria and in many places.... there is or was high fences in Croatia .... all those where you can hunt. i ve seen high fences in Slovenia near velenje but it was not used for hunting. | |||
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The bulk of Eastern Europe is all free-range hunting. High fence hunting is illegal in Poland for sure. | |||
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There is still loads of free range hunting in South Africa as well. | |||
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Please mention some, I’m convinced many of us would like to get the details. | |||
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I forgot to mention that you can also hunt mouflon in France, but quotas are probably small. I've never done this. Still, hunting in the Alps or Pyrenees, whether for chamois or mouflon is most certainly wild game. No fences or walls in these places. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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We’ve hunted free range with Lalapa Safaris in the Eastern Cape and there are several others in the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal. To think all South Africa is the same is ridiculous. | |||
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In the end it is always about making money. | |||
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Exactly! And free choice! What is helping the antis is some of our own who want to stop others having a choice of hunting on farms. That is the whole story! | |||
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45 minutes from Madrid about 100000 hectars . No fences whatsoever. If any of you come and dont consider it WILD GAME. I will cover the expenses of your trip. Advise!!!! You will not see a single fence. 2 you will have to be superfit diego | |||
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If it is ignorance or utter stupidity, I don`t know, but first of all, Europe is not a country as many seems to think. Secondly, the Scanadinavian peninsula consisting of Norway and Sweden has an abundance of wild game, from bear, wolf, wolverine, moose, red stag, fallow, roe deer, wild pigs and reindeer. None are hunted on game farm, all are free roaming. Add Finland as well and you can add whitetail deer to the list. There are perhaps not so much true uninhabited wilderness left, but I can guarantee you the game you see are wild and free roaming. Arild Iversen. | |||
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hThe fence is not the problem. It is the perception of whether the hunt is fair chase. There is the hunter’s belief and the community perception. 50 acres is not the same as 500000 acres. Naturally wary animals like antelopes are born to be elusive. Lions are not. They have to learn to hunt and fear man. Let one loose in 500,000 acres and wait a year and you have a fair chase hunt. Let one out in 50 acres and hunt has m next week; not fair chase! USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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It really is that simple. I think most that pretend not to grasp that reality are being purposely obtuse. Mike | |||
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Diego my son Tom will confirm that! I look forward to seeing this place one day. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Most European hunters know bugger all and could care less about the traditional African safaris that most other hunters crave for. Well that is Bullshit the Scandinavians put a lot of money on the tables in Africa and they are a werry big group coming every year for hunting in SA and Namibia and also zim and other countryies and spends good money there.We have long tradisjons hunting in Africa....... In Scandinavia we do 98 % of our hunting on animals in gods free nature as we have wery few high fense propertyes and we do not put out deer or other big animals for hunting.Denmark and Sweden have pheafant hunting on both wild and farmed birds thats it..... I have nothing against highfense hunting in Africa  | |||
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Donner: My apologies for not including the Scandinavians as Europeans - its just that you never really hear much of them except when squandering money into Third World African countries. Not sure what percentage of the hunting dollars is that they contribute to African hunting but most certainly a very insignificant margin of that margin comes to Tanzania. Ach yes, it all goes to RSA or Namibia.  The Europeans that I am referring to are the Germans, Austrians, Spaniards, Wops and possibly the French; most of them hunt at home mostly on fenced, or reserves with natural fences or when it is "safari" time, hop across to Eastern Europe where both the styles of hunting are totally different to the way a hunt is conducted in Africa unless its a ranch and maybe a fenced one. | |||
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You do realize that fenced hunting is illegal in Poland for example. The generalizations in this thread are astounding and show what a lack of knowledge most have of the hunting world....kinda sad! We will be the cause of our own demise! | |||
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Your posting reminds me of the White House‘ alternative facts... | |||
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I lived in Europe for two years, spent time in UK, Italy, France, Belgium, Portugal, Spain never saw a wild animal in all that time. (Well actually I once saw a Fox in a park in London.) But if the choice is fenced game or no game, then fenced is the only choice. It's all moot anyway, with the inevitable land confiscation looming in RSA there will be no wild game, no fenced game, no canned game, no game at all. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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And I thought the Germans went to Namibia because it used to be German. No, high fences on Europe? Not true. | |||
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Well I PH in SA & find the country a fantastic place, with some amazing country side & hunting, yes you need to pay attention in the cities but I suppose no worse than a lot of places in the US, New York, New Orleans, Detroit ? On the Farms now we need to keep alert more also but I don't think any foreign hunts have been involved in any farm invasions or murders ? I have also found alot of unfenced hunting for myself, mainly along the Limpopo, with game walking where ever it likes, even from Botos, Ele making a real mess ! | |||
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As long as I don‘t know the names of the unfenced farms plus contact details I can‘t believe it. | |||
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Beside hunting for a lifetime here in Norway, I have been three times to Sweden, three times to England (Sussex and Suffolk) as a hunter. Lots of red, roe, fallow and pigs to be seen and taken. Actually, the rather urban English countryside is also full of wild game. I took fallow, muntjac and fox there, and saw lots of roe as well. In Ireland as a tourist cruising the Wicklow mountains there were deer everywhere. And not to mention Scotland, red and roe in abundance. But no game fences to be seen, none at all. Arild Iversen. | |||
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Then you believe me? I believe I gave you a name.......... | |||
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I contacted them but never received a response. | |||
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All those countries have good game populations & my part of central Portugal has or rather had (until the 2017 wildfires) very good game populations...... We regularly saw deer & wild boar around the house.............. Populations are slowly recovering but I reckon it'll take at least another 5 years to get back to previous levels. http://www.shakariconnection.c...ing-in-portugal.html | |||
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Sure you will...it is the middle of hunting season and they need to travel a fair bit for the game they hunt on those free range farms and ranches. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Two SA hunting organisations expelled over canned lion hunts
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