quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
I don't know, RIP ...

I'm not sure the world is ready for such excellence and superiority in the hands of us "regular" folk.

It's clearly and obviously better than any other of the .375 ilk, neigh better than any dangerous game caliber larger or smaller ...

I just don't know if I'm ready for that, if I can handle all of that awesomeness ...

With those words of wisdom from Doc Paul, I must pause and ponder this a bit.
This incredible awesomeness unleashed ...
Ok, I thought about it.
It's a go!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
I don't know, RIP ...

I'm not sure the world is ready for such excellence and superiority in the hands of us "regular" folk.

It's clearly and obviously better than any other of the .375 ilk, neigh better than any dangerous game caliber larger or smaller ...

I just don't know if I'm ready for that, if I can handle all of that awesomeness ...

With those words of wisdom from Doc Paul, I must pause and ponder this a bit.
This incredible awesomeness unleashed ...
Ok, I thought about it.
It's a go!

Fast medium bores based on the 404j are nothing new,.....
Herman Goering hunted with a long barrelled Magnum mauser in 9,3x70 DWM.

The history of this cartridge is quite interesting. It started in 1928, when DWM presented their case No. 569. This new design was based on the .404 Jeffrey and was intended for big game hunting in Africa. The cartridge was listed in the 1934 DWM catalog....its ballistics are shown in tables of the 1934 edition of the DWM hunters' manual Patrone und Schuss.
The current 9.3x70 Expert Magnum has the same case as the old 9.3x70 DWM 569 and almost the same ballistics, so what we have here is the revival of a little-known cartridge from the 1930's.


9,3x70 is offered as a chambering by Reimer Yohannsen.

I much prefer das Geschwindigkeit und Energie of mein .500 A2 uber any Entfernung at which dangerous game may be reasonably beschossen.

Trax, my friend, you missed something earlier and of closer likeness.
We are talking 9.5 mm, not 9.3 mm here.
9.5 mm = .375 caliber, or 9.525mm to be exact.
There were previous cartridges that were based on the 404 Jeffery case necked to .375, the 9.5x73 and 9.5x66,
similar to a .375/404 Jeffery Saeed and a .375 Dakota (short).

However, the quaint, old 9.5x73 Miller & Greiss Magnum,
aka .375 Miller & Greiss magnum,
was the unimproved version of Saeed's cartridge.
But not quite as unimproved as the .375 RUM.
Yes, it would be a better choice than the .375 RUM.

Yep, the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed is much better. It was finally perfected, even though it started off in the 1910 to 1920 period, in other, German, hands.
Saeed and Dwight finally pulled it off (Late 1990s or when?).

... then came the modern copycats.

************************************************************************************************

Here is the first .375/404 Jeffery, the 9.5 x 73 Miller-Greiss Magnum, circa 1928.
It had a long, sloped shoulder like the parent .404 Jeffery or 10.75x73, and was full length, not shortened like the "9.5x66 Vom Hofe Super Express."
The Vom Hofe 9.5 had a shoulder angle of about 40 degrees (81 degree junction cone angle by one source.)

The Miller-Greiss 9.5 x 73 seems to have the same shoulder angle as the 404 Jeffery, 8.5 degrees.


The basics from www.municion.org


9.5 x 73 Miller-Greiss Magnum:









9.5x66 Vom Hofe Super Express:






Ernest August Vom Hofe was an assistant of Hermann Gerlich in Danzig during years 1920. Soon one moves to Leipzig with Wilhelm Brenneke. At the beginning of the decade of 1930 und Munition founds on Berlin company/signature HOFMANN Waffen (formed by HOFe and Richard SchienMMAN) to construct to its own cartridges of high speed and guns - based on Máuser- action. In 1935 Schiemmann the society leaves, that happens to be called “Vom Hofe Waffen und Munition”.

This cartridge is based on 7x66 Vom Hofe towards 1935. After diverse tests of Wolfgang Gehmann - that acquired the rights of Vom Hofe after the death of the same in 1945 - its production by the IWK began (old DWM) until the disappearance of this one in 1972. In 1992 Wolfgang Romey it returned to produce this cartridge during one season. At the moment we think that it does not produce any factory.

MORE:

Ballistics just like the "Nostalgic" .375 Blaser Magnum ... ...

More on the 9.5x73mm Miller-Greiss Magnum ...

From W. B. Dixon's EUROPEAN SPORTING CARTRIDGES:






From Fred A. Datig's CARTRIDGES FOR COLLECTORS VOLUME 1 (CENTERFIRE):




From Frank C. Barnes'/Edited by Layne Simpson CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD 12TH EDITION:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Trax, my friend, you missed something earlier and of closer likeness.
We are talking 9.5 mm, not 9.3 mm here.

Hello RIP,

I am are of that, thats why I generalised by saying "fast medium bores based on the 404j"...
I though I would mention 9,3x70 just out of interest, just like every time one starts a thread on the 35 Whelen, its [predictably] injected with 9,3x62 talk.

NO quarms about Saeed creating his own w-cat...what ever floats ones boat.

If you can realistically see the difference in killing effect between a 9,3 and .375 your imagination is better than mine.
All this hyper velocity improved case talk is interesting, but I can't see someyone being unable to very effectively kill all the things Saeed has,using the Un-improved version of the .375/404 case, loaded to its ability in a strong modern rifle.

I hope you don't start a discussion in support of the "hydrostatic shock" talk/theory BS.

Your into the method of testing in water Jugs for penetration,...what do think about the example of physics where the 30/30win with regular cup core factory rounds penetrated twice as many water containers than a 300rum180AB 3200mv?....

I really don't give a cats continental how much further-more dramatically the water may be "flung" by the hyper vel. 300rum load, water physics have little relation to that of live tissue, in regards how they both react to bullet impact.
Game does not get lifted off the ground any more with a 300rum than it does after being hit with a .30/30.

This 30/06 still explodes the water container at 1000yds,...how does that help me in regards to determining if the bullet has the ability to do a good job on an live beast at that range?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
At the closer distances most animals are shot, I really do not think that my rifle has any advantage over the good old 375H&H.

coming straight from the [highly field experienced] horses mouth.....

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

3. Now we arrive at the .375/404 Jeffery by natural selection, and the perfect case is mated to the perfect bullet.
It beats the .375 H&H's mere adequacy by giving higher velocity with lower pressure,via greater case capacity.

"merely adequate" in your mind, but proven very cable for many tasks- by a high number of other peoples extensive real world experiences.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The 404 Jeffery has a minimum-taper case-body as it is, and gets its overall taper only from the long-sloping shoulder of about 8.5 degrees.
Add the way-long neck of about 0.620" length.
It cries out for "improvement."

So The .375/404 Jeffery of Saeed is arguably the best big game hunting cartridge possible.

Actually, I think the unimproved .375/404j is perfect just the way it is, and already offers more mojo than the regular .375HH -for the rare individuals who actually need it.

RIP,
I have not read through all of these posts and my following question may already have been answered. I have often wondered about the reliable feeding of a cartridge such as this when in use on dangerous game. The shoulder angle has me worried. I agree with your statement that the .375 is the ultimate all-purpose caliber. However, what about up close and personal on DG when many PH types have suggested to download the .375 H&H to 2400 fps? Perhaps with the better projectiles made today it is not a problem. Maybe the 350 and 380 grain .375 caliber projectiles offered today can take this caliber into the next level of DG hunting while the extra velocity offered by the .375/404 Jeffery with typical 300 grain loads will exceed on long range plains game.
You may be on to something. Or perhaps Saeed has been on to something for years. I can, however, purchase 300 grain Hornady loads in .375 H&H magnum with 2700 fps velocity levels. This, I have found, with 300 grain loads, is very good for shots out to 340 - 350 yards. I'm just defending my favorite all-purpose caliber but I'm well aware of the capabilities of a cartridge such as the .375/404. Thanks for another interesting post which may get a few folks thinking. By the way, I suffer from the same Irish confliction. As a matter of fact. I recently found that our family is related to Eamon de Valera, third president of Ireland. I have heard he was a crook but I have also heard he was a very good man. I do not know which is true but prefer the latter.

buíochas

jfm

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
AIU,
The .375 Weatherby of mid 1940s started it all, and is still the best of the .375 H&H Improveds. I have used it well,
have 3 rifles so chambered.
Yes, it has the advantage of firing common .375 H&H factory ammo, delivering slightly lower than H&H velocity thusly.

About having more velocity than you need and Saeed not maxing out his loads:

I do not like maxing out the loads.

The .375 Blaser is factory loaded by Norma with 300-grainers at less than 2500 fps.
They brag about getting .375 H&H ballistics at lower pressure.

I like loading a .375/300-grainer to about 2750 fps, at modest pressure. That gives just over 5000 ft-lbs.
Saeed has well proven that is ... ENOUGH GUN



Canuck did too:

If everyone shot as well as Saeed a 30-06 would be enough gun!

Trax: If you find this thread offensive to your delicate sensibilities, please ignore it.

Trax just made tracks to my ignore list.
He is the only denizen there, since shootaway has been paroled ... due to the hilarity of other members' replies to him.
At least that is funny!
I do not have time for a sour puss presuming to explain my ideas about physics, since he has no idea what they are, and is merely trolling for vituperation.

************************************************************************************************************************************************

quote:

Originally posted by jfm:
RIP,
I have not read through all of these posts and my following question may already have been answered.
I have often wondered about the reliable feeding of a cartridge such as this when in use on dangerous game. The shoulder angle has me worried.

jfm,
No worries there. Shoulder angle must surely be in the 25 to 30 degree range. We'll know soon as Saeed or Dwight tell us.
Slick feeding involves more than just shoulder angle, but also perfection of box width to cartridge diameter, cartridge body taper, full diameter rim ...
The 404 Jeffery has minimum body taper, 8.5-degree shoulder, perfect head diameter.
The .416 Rigby has huge body taper, 45-degree shoulder, and too large head diameter for magazine perfection.
The .375/404 Jeffery Saeed has it all covered, as close to perfection as possible.



I agree with your statement that the .375 is the ultimate all-purpose caliber.
However, what about up close and personal on DG when many PH types have suggested to download the .375 H&H to 2400 fps?
Perhaps with the better projectiles made today it is not a problem.

Correct. Like no problems with Walterhogs, GSC, North Fork, CEB:
The faster you go the better they get, certainly up to 2800 fps impact.

Maybe the 350 and 380 grain .375 caliber projectiles offered today can take this caliber into the next level of DG hunting
while the extra velocity offered by the .375/404 Jeffery with typical 300 grain loads will exceed on long range plains game.

No need for anything heavier than a 300-grain "better projectile," as you say.
KISS principle combats Murphy: One load, one trajectory, near and far,
better marksmanship results even when that Irishman is breathing his green beer fumes in your face.

You may be on to something. Or perhaps Saeed has been on to something for years.

Yep, you better say Saeed!

I can, however, purchase 300 grain Hornady loads in .375 H&H magnum with 2700 fps velocity levels.

Most of the chronograph data I have seen for that stuff is less than 2700 fps.
What barrel length is the factory data from and is the pressure right there at SAAMI max?
The .375/404JS will do that without breaking a sweat, much lower pressure.
I don't care for gimmicky factory ammo that I cannot fine tune for accuracy in my rifle,
and reproduce whenever needed by handloading. I am just not buying that stuff.
If not a handloader, yes stick to a factory chambering.

This, I have found, with 300 grain loads, is very good for shots out to 340 - 350 yards.
I'm just defending my favorite all-purpose caliber but I'm well aware of the capabilities of a cartridge such as the .375/404.
Thanks for another interesting post which may get a few folks thinking.


By the way, I suffer from the same Irish confliction. As a matter of fact.
I recently found that our family is related to Eamon de Valera, third president of Ireland.
I have heard he was a crook but I have also heard he was a very good man.
I do not know which is true but prefer the latter.

buíochas

jfm

Here is the only Englishman in my family tree I can be proud of: Endymion Porter, Ambassador to Spain, and
"Sometime Gentleman of the Bedchamber to King Charles the First" ???



He was not gay, he had five sons.
He had to flee when Charles I lost his head 1640-ish ... some of his offspring wound up in Ireland:
my mother's side of the family.
Pop's side of the Irish were in Virginia by 1620-ish, carrying arquebuses like Endymion above.
Propensity to firearms is genetic.

Have a green one on me:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

If everyone shot as well as Saeed a 30-06 would be enough gun!

The GSC HV .375/300-grainer is a good Walterhog substitute.
Shorter nosed than the Walterhog, it would allow use of 3.6" Box length.

My .416 Dakota is a rebarreled M70 300 RUM.
Another good choice for platform:

1. CZ 550 Magnum, 3.8"
2. FN Mauser 98 with custom bottom metal, 3.6"
3. Winchester M70 RUM, 3.6"

Could have deformed the .375/404JS by seating a bullet with a cut off 378 Weatherby die, so,
not perfect specimens nor photography, but here is a comparison of the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed to a .416 Dakota:







The .416 Dakota has a 30-degree shoulder.
Is the .375/404JS somewhere between 25 and 30 degrees?

Looks like the base to shoulder distance is slightly greater with the .375/404JS?

Saeed must be off skiing in Switzerland.

quote:

Saeed must be off skiing in Switzerland.

It is 17 degrees below, snowing like mad, and I can hardly see 50 yards ahead of me.

Not that it would matter, as all I do is slide down hill in the most uncontrolled manner a snow ball rolls downhill.

What is worse, is the fact I cannot tell one slope from another. Yesterday I made it to the bottom of the valley faster than anyone else by taking a wrong turn and taking a "quicker" route than I was supposed to!

I am becoming so good at this I was given a pair of glasses with a video camera in them. I am told to wear them today!

That should be fun!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RIP:


I do not have time for a sour puss presuming to explain my ideas about physics,to since he has no idea what they are,
Correct I don't your ideas about physics,nor have I claimed to know them, so how could it be possible for me to explain your ideas about them?
... quote where I have attempted to explain a theory where I claimed was based on your personal ideas about physics...

and is merely trolling for vituperation.
vituperation[def]- "abusive or venomous language used to express blame or censure or bitter deep-seated ill will."

Your being impetuously presumptuous, as to what the intentions of my post are.

Trax just made tracks to my ignore list.
Your reaction is infantile,....and your better of telling someone who really cares.

quote:

"Sometime Gentleman of the Bedchamber to King Charles the First" ???

Perhaps an explanation of the term?

quote:

Originally posted by African Hunters Quest:

quote:

"Sometime Gentleman of the Bedchamber to King Charles the First" ???

Perhaps an explanation of the term?

Far from bieng gay, it was a VERY important position with much influence on the monarch:

"There were always several holders of the office, who were invariably gentlemen and almost invariably peers, often important ones, as the regular access to the monarch which the role brought was the most valuable commodity of the courtier.[1]

The duties of the office involved waiting on the king when he ate in private, helping him to dress, guarding the bedchamber and closet, and providing companionship."

Back to the topic at hand...

Please forgive my ignorance but how is the .375/404 JS different from this

boom stick's proposed 404-375

(no criticism implied at all, I REALLY don't know and would like to!)

I really understand wildcat guys. I've NEVER been able to just leave well enough alone

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Saeed must be off skiing in Switzerland.

It is 17 degrees below, snowing like mad, and I can hardly see 50 yards ahead of me.

Not that it would matter, as all I do is slide down hill in the most uncontrolled manner a snow ball rolls downhill.

What is worse, is the fact I cannot tell one slope from another. Yesterday I made it to the bottom of the valley faster than anyone else by taking a wrong turn and taking a "quicker" route than I was supposed to!

I am becoming so good at this I was given a pair of glasses with a video camera in them. I am told to wear them today!

That should be fun!

Hope you get some Kevlar pants for when you take the sit-down run down the sheer-drop, black-ice cliffs.
Post a video, don't start any avalanches, and don't break a leg, please!

quote:

"Sometime Gentleman of the Bedchamber to King Charles the First" ???

There were always several holders of the office, who were invariably gentlemen and almost invariably peers,
often important ones, as the regular access to the monarch which the role brought was the most valuable commodity of the courtier ...
The duties of the office involved waiting on the king when he ate in private, helping him to dress, guarding the bedchamber and closet,
and providing companionship.

BwanaCole,
That's a relief! Good to know, Grandpappy Porter was not gay, and was more than just a butler or valet. Courtier grande!

boom stick's wildcat is different alright, it is a straight-tapered .375 H&H belted case necked up to .423-caliber bullet.
Sort of like an anorexic .458 Lott.

Could this be the future home of a .375/404 Jeffery Saeed reamer?



Bringing royalty to Kentucky, sort of like the English royalists fleeing to Ireland and France. We eat no infants here!

For the dedicated African varmint safari, or African sheep hunt, a .375/230-grain "Raptor" from Cutting Edge Bullets ...



Three bullets in one: Another KISS approach to Murphy
1. Hollwpoint brass "Hexploder."
2. With ballistic "talon" tip it is very accurate still, and flatter shooting.
3. Turn it around and shoot it base first: FN solid (shoulder stabilizing nose shape) with hollow base (dart sabilized).
Extreme stability and high velocity make up for lack of weight.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Whatever Saeed calls it is what it is.
Specs must come from Saeed by way of Dwight.
A Saeed-type rifle conformation for the CZ 550 Magnum would be an ideal marketing gimmick, IF marketing is desired.

Maybe we are waiting on Dwight to send something to me?

Right now, I NEED a Rusty McGee build on a CZ,
which suits me just fine.
In fact, Rusty McGee's Hilltop Gunshop, at Falls of Rough, Kentucky would be the ideal home for a .375/404 Jeffery Saeed reamer(s) and "factory."

I will send Rusty the CZ 550 Magnum rifle.
Specify barrel, trigger, safety, stock (original or replacement), and magazine reinforcement.
Anachronistic barrel hardware attachments may also be specified (iron sights, barrel bands, secondary recoil lugs), but those are interesting me little these days.
I still cannot give up a sling, however.
When I crawl on hands and knees I like to sling the rifle under my chest/belly.
I do not like scooting on hands and butt with rifle in lap.

Sighting equipment you add yourself: Leupold 2.5-8X with reticle and rings of your choice.

Here is an example of some CZ work by Rusty,
on a .395 Tatanka and a .375/.338 Lapua Magnum (aka 9.5mm Tornado from Germany):

Dan Lilja stainless fluted .375 barrel:



An alternative sling attachment method:



A plain barrel and usual forend tip sling stud (.395 Tatanka)



McGee box reinforcement and fit in CZ Kevlar stock with full aluminum bedding block. This holds 5 down in the box with .375/404 Jeffery Saeed:



LaPour safety and Timney trigger:





Forend stud and filler screw on the CZ Kevlar stock, I did this one myself, Rusty could make it prettier:



Two rifles, two Leupold scopes:

These rifles look fantastic.My only complaint with the CZ rifles is the bolt shroud which really spoils the look for me.Could you please tell us what modifications are done to the bolt shroud?

Also, thank you for starting this thread as I have been fixated on the .404/375 Jefferey Saeed as I have been seeing its deadly effect on game that Saeed shoots.

Best-
Locksley,R.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

boom stick's wildcat is different alright, it is a straight-tapered .375 H&H belted case necked up to .423-caliber bullet.
Sort of like an anorexic .458 Lott.

Thanks. I take it the .375/404 JS is the other way around; a 404 necked down to .375?? Just trying to get the picture straight in the old noggin!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Max and Ed,
The .395s are special, aye, but, but ...
Let us not digress ...

Remember the .375 Blaser Magnum?
They claimed not to have copied any existing cartridge for their lineup.
*********************************************************************************************************
*********************************************************************************************************
"New generation of Magnum ammunition


In cooperation with Norma, Blaser has developed a brand new generation of high-performance cartridges.
No existing calibres were copied. Instead, the latest ammunition technology was applied to achieve the
optimum performance in each calibre group.


The new Blaser Magnum calibers are characterized by:

notably increased precision values
higher performance in terms of energy and speed at low gas pressure
more comfortable recoil effects
enhanced reliability
perfectly suitable for reloading


Thanks to an optimised cartridge geometry, stable cartridge base and modern powder types together with
4-groove barrel profiles and adapted twist rates, all development objectives have been achieved.


Actually Blaser offers the following loads:

7 mm Blaser Magnum: 9.1 g / 140 gr Nosler Accu-Bond
.300 Blaser Magnum: 11.7 g / 180 gr Barnes TTSX (lead-free)
.300 Blaser Magnum: 10.7 g / 165 gr Blaser CDP
.338 Blaser Magnum: 13.6 g / 210 gr Barnes TTSX (lead-free)
.338 Blaser Magnum: 13,0g / 200 gr Nosler Accu Bond
.375 Blaser Magnum: 17.5 g / 270 gr Barnes TSX


Blaser R93 and K95 models as well as barrels can be ordered in the new calibres
(.375 Blaser Magnum only available for R93).


Note

Blaser ammunition is not offered for sale, sold, or distributed in North America.
**********************************************************************************************************
**********************************************************************************************************

The .375 Blaser Magnum looks like the kissin' cousin of the .375/404J Saeed:

Norma didn't copy Saeed´s .375/.404.

BUT they might have copied the 9,5mm Miller & Val. Greiss, a cartridge developed about +80 years before Saeed introduced his .375/.404...

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:

... My only complaint with the CZ rifles is the bolt shroud which really spoils the look for me.
Could you please tell us what modifications are done to the bolt shroud?

Also, thank you for starting this thread as I have been fixated on the .404/375 Jefferey Saeed
as I have been seeing its deadly effect on game that Saeed shoots.

Best-
Locksley,R.

Robin,
So you have good sense, high IQ, not offended by Saeed's cartridge?


You buy an Ed LaPour safety for about $250 IIRC, discard the CZ bolt shroud and safety,

www.edlapourgunsmithing.com (has an exporter/importer link on his website)



and pay a gunsmith to install it:



While you are at it, you might consider simplifying to a Timney trigger,
for about $100, add gunsmithing:



There are quite a few options for CZ scope rings.
Nothing is stronger than the standard CZ rings, and they can be made into QD-lever rings
at home, by yourself, like on this 500 Mbogo:



I took a set of levers off some Leupold QRW rings, and drilled and tapped them,
to accept the automotive hex-socket screw of proper thread to replace the main clamping screws.
Screw them in and use JB Weld epoxy to fix the screw in the lever for good.
Then you can use a torque wrench to properly torque to 65 inch-pounds (carry a hex key/Allen wrench in your pocket for the field)
or use your thumb with less torque for QD.
Lesser rings will strip or shatter when these do business as usual.
And the levers are on the correct side of the rifle, away from the bolt side, unlike the Talley and Warne rings.

quote:

Originally posted by husky:

Norma didn't copy Saeed´s .375/.404.

BUT they might have copied the 9,5mm Miller & Val. Greiss, a cartridge developed about +80 years before Saeed introduced his .375/.404...

husky:

Phooey! Blaser copied Saeed's improved version,
not the 1920-ish "unimproved" Miller & Greiss forerunner!
Obvious!
Just to spite Saeed by putting it in a Blaser rifle abomination!

Then Norma did the ammo manufacture, downloaded to .375 H&H ballistics.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:

... My only complaint with the CZ rifles is the bolt shroud which really spoils the look for me.
Could you please tell us what modifications are done to the bolt shroud?

Also, thank you for starting this thread as I have been fixated on the .404/375 Jefferey Saeed
as I have been seeing its deadly effect on game that Saeed shoots.

Best-
Locksley,R.

Robin,
So you have good sense, high IQ, not offended by Saeed's cartridge?


You buy an Ed LaPour safety for about $250 IIRC, dsicard the CZ bolt shroud and safety,

www.edlapourgunsmithing.com (has an exporter/importer link on his website)



and pay a gunsmith to install it:



While you are at it, you might consider simplifying to a Timney trigger,
for about $100, add gunsmithing:



There are quite a few options for CZ scope rings.
Nothing is stronger than the standard CZ rings, and they can be made into QD-lever rings
at home, by yourself, like on this 500 Mbogo:



I took a set of levers off some Leupold QRW rings, and drilled and tapped them,
to accept the automotive hex-socket screw of proper thread to replace the main clamping screws.
Screw them in and use JB Weld epoxy to fix the screw in the lever for good.
Then you can use a torque wrench to properly torque to 65 inch-pounds (carry a hew key/Allen wrench in your pocket for the field)
or use your thumb with less torque for QD.
Lesser rings will strip or shatter when these do business as usual.
And the levers are on the correct side of the rifle, away from the bolt side, unlike the Talley and Warne rings.

RIP, Many thanks for the info.

Initially I was thinking that this cartridge was merely a fanciful pursuit.Then I began to see its devastating effect on game,small and large, at varying distances.What else do you need.If I ever build a rifle, this calibre would definitely is there in the plans.

I see Saeed shoot it effortlessly.That must have come with a lot of practice and skill, acquired and innate.However, I would like to know the impressions on recoil and muzzle-blast.

Once again, thank you.

Best-
Locksley,R.

Recoil and muzzle blast are sufficient to satisfy, without stultifying, any proficient rifleman.
Let's face it, even Walter can endure it, and even gets lucky with the .375/404JS now and then, but,
of course, that may be more like a blind hog finding an acorn, now and then.

While killing time waiting on a reamer, might as well post some 404 Jeffery Anecdotes of the past decade:
************************************************************************************************************************************************

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed: 2001

Texas Heart Shot On Cape Buffalo

We were hunting in the Chete safari area in Zimbabwe.
We came across the tracks of a large buffalo bull, and decided to follow him.

We followed this bull for about 3 hours, taking us all over the place, sometimes actually re-crossing his own tracks.
Eventually, he got mixed up with a large herd, so we had to give up on him.

A couple of days later, we saw his tracks again, in the same area we tracked him previously.

We decided to give him another go, and started on his tracks. Eventually, we caught up with him,
and I managed to get a shot into his chest, for a lung shot.
The bush in this area was very thick, and a lung shot buffalo can go a long way before giving up the ghost.

We ran after him, but he stayed a few yards ahead of us.
All we could see of him was just black glimpses while he was disappearing into the bush.

This went on for about 15 minutes or so, and next time we saw him taking off into the bush again,
with only his backside showing, Roy shouted: "Shoot him up the bum!"

The bull was about 100 yards away from us, and I just shouldered my rifled and fired.
The bull staggered and fell down.

We walked up to him, and put a finisher into him. He was the biggest bodied buffalo I have ever shot.

This is where my second shot hit him.



------------------
saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

************************************************************************************************************************************************

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
DB Bill,

Yep, I did live in Texas for a while, and found out the Texans had great big hearts, but not much brains.

Thus the name "Texas Heart Shot!" (not Texas Brain Shot)

Pete,

The bullet was in the lungs.

------------------
saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

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quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Don,

As usual, I used my 375/404, and the Barnes X 300 grain bullet at around 2700 fps.

------------------
saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

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quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Talking of Texas, when I moved there, everyone was asking me where I was from at out shooting club.

I always told them the same thing, saying "Dubai".

To normal people, that was enough, but it certainly was not for my Texan friends!

They always asked what State it was in too!

For a while, I tried explaining where Dubai is geoghraphically, then I had to give up when they started telling all there friends that "Saeed comes from Dubai, Saudi Arabia!"

After that, I just said "Dubai, Texas"! That solved my problem.



------------------
saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

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quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
When I first designed and built our 375/404, Walter asked "how accurate is it going to be"

My answer was "minute of cape buffalo"

We were not disappointed.

I loved the sense of humor they had in Texas.
I spent a lot of my time shooting, and every single individual I met had a great sense of humor.

The odd ones who didn't were a source of endless laughs from jokes being played on them.

The best part was that we had no PC.

Big-bodied 49" spread with a broken horn: Is this the Texas Heart Shot Bull?


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From a 2004 post:


Dwight Scott, Benchrest Rifle Champ and collaborator on Saeed's .375/404 Jeffery Saeed:

For over 10 years now have I been begging for the rest of the specs on the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed.
We used to call it the .375/404 BS, for "Bwana Saeed."
JS seems more polite than BS.


Back in 2001, Saeed was trying out some GSC bullets.
Me too. Back then I was RAB instead of RIP:

On 7-15-2001, RIP/RAB wrote:

quote:

"The best combo that Gerard has in .375 caliber now is a 265 grain HV and a 270 grain FN.

If he would come out with a 300 grain HV and FN in .375 caliber, I would forsake all other bullets and build two rifles in 375 Saeed and hunt with nothing else.]
Well, since the dies and brass are so cheap for the 375 RUM, maybe I would just go the "Ugly American" route.

I'll bet if Gerard would get the 300 grain .375 caliber HV and FN in production, he would get your interest, and a lot of other folks' interest too.

------------------
Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

[This message has been edited by R. A. Berry (edited 07-15-2001).]

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Creating a .375/404 Jeffery reamer that is not identical to Saeed's would be a travesty!

From 2004:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I had an email from a gentleman who apparently has been told that cape buffalo are so tuff they need a 155 mm cannon to kill them.
I have shot quite a number of buffalo, and most of them got at least two bullets fired at them.
We do this to make sure it stays down, especially if it was spined and drops at the shot.
I remember one year when we shot 11 or 12 on one safari, 8 of which were killed with one shot, using my 375/404 and the Barnes X 300 grain bullet ...

... One was shot in the neck, the rest all were shot through the chest, when the heart is not hit, the large bloody arteries above it have been.
We generally do not wait for long before getting close to them on the ground, but we approach cautiously from behind,
and if we get to a few yards without seeing any sign of life, Roy throws a rock at them while I stand guard.
All the ones shot this way generally run for up to 100 yards or more - most expire within less than that.

********************************************************************************************************************************************************

Consider the above quotations, along with previous Saeed posts on Texas-Heart-Shot cape buffalo.
Even with a hollow point copper Walterhog "soft" of 300 grains at 2700-ish fps,
which may or may not blow off their noses and become FN solids of sorts,
the bullets make it into the heart-lung area and beyond, sometimes into the neck.

My limited experiences on big bovines:

Water buffalo, mad cow, + 1200 pounder
(She was pregnant, and took over the farm, after the farmer sold off the herd bull.
She started killing sheep and such on the hobby farm. Farmer requested that I kill her.):
460 Weatherby factory load with 500 gr RNSP which looked much like an old Hornady RNSP.
Shot in chest at 50 yards on the run: It stopped running and stood there, head lowered slightly and bleeding from the nose.
After a minute of watching this motionless, sick bovine, I swapped my 460 Wby for a featherweight .375 H&H, from gunbearer-accomplice,
and shot the suffering critter in the neck with a 300-grain Swift A-Frame Remington Factory load. Lights out finally! Mercy!

Water buffalo, big bull, +1800 pounder:
.416 Rigby 350-grain Barnes XFB at 2700-ish fps.
Shot in chest at 150 yards.
The big bull galloped about 50 yards then slowed to a walk and then began staggerring in circles with about a 20 foot radius,
until I walked to within 50 yards of it and finished it with an offhand neck shot at 50 yards, same load. Down he went,finally, mercy me!

Bison, mature bull +1300 pounder:
404 Jeffery 380-grain North Fork SP at 2500-ish fps.
Shot in chest at about 80 yards, it went 8 steps spewing lungs and blood, and fell over dead.

Bison, old bull +1600 pounder:
.510/460Wby 570-grain Barnes XLC at 2400-ish fps.
Shot in chest at 50 yards. It ran 100yards north, stopped, standing still, upright.
Next bullet in the magazine was a GSC FN 570-grainer,
so I shot it in its south end (THS) and the bullet exited its throat. Dropped him.
Post mortem:
About 8 feet of penetration. This was repeated on the ground, GSC FN, same results: Enter near tail, exit near tonsils.
A second Barnes XLC broadside into the chest on the ground: Same result, no exit.

Cape buffalo bull in Botswana, 42-incher, +1200 pounds:
.416 Rigby with GSC FN 380-grainer at 2500-ish fps.
Shot through left shoulder bone and heart at 50 yards, bullet exited offside ribs.
He bucked like a rodeo bull, turned and ran 50 yards and died.
Insurance shot with same load also exited.

About same sized cape buffalo bull in Tanzania:
500 Mbogo with GSC HV 450-grain "soft" at 2654 fps MV (reduced "filler" load).
Shot at about 80-90 yards, again breaking left shoulder and piercing heart, despite bullet not expanding, did not exit.
Again he bucked like a rodeo bull (see below), turned and ran about 50 yards and died.
Insurance shot from about 10 yards between shoulders into spine: mushroomed perfectly and was lying loose in blood-filled chest cavity.





Chester the Tanzanian cape buffalo that got away, maybe with a limp:
Chester was running by and stopped to look at us in a frontal pose.
PH said "shoot."
I let fly at 150 yards with same 500 Mbogo rifle and load as above.
Dirt flew from the ground behind Chester.
He turned and ran.
Theory is I may have creased his brisket or his ham.
We tracked and drove for two days looking for him.
Found one drop of blood on the first day.
Then nothing.


Conclusion:
Had I been using the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed for everything on that safari,
near and far, big and small,
maybe my shot at Chester would have been better???
I am only human.
Sometimes those heavy rifles get heavy on the sticks, and they slip off aim when the sticks wobble,
or collapse, as that third leg kicks out on the slope of the termite mound at the moment of truth.

This is starting to feel like life in Washington, all talk and no action. I say we either come up with a plan to move this forward or move on to other endeavors.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
This is starting to feel like life in Washington, all talk and no action. I say we either come up with a plan to move this forward or move on to other endeavors.

Mike:
I have many other endeavors going forward.
I am prepared to wait for Saeed to release the reamer specs.
I would hate to just neck the .416 Dakota down to .375, and call it the .375/404 Jeffery RIP(off).
Saeed and Dwight did not simply do that.
I could not call it the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed if I did that.
Out of respect for our benefactor here: I wait.

A big one taken with the first .375/404JS:
When? 1999

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
This is starting to feel like life in Washington, all talk and no action. I say we either come up with a plan to move this forward or move on to other endeavors.

Mike:
I have many other endeavors going forward.

Like the 45-70 Saeed in a Blaser action. Come on, fess us RIP!

Jim,
If not the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed,
alternative is this:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Whatever Saeed calls it is what it is.
Specs must come from Saeed by way of Dwight.
A Saeed-type rifle conformation for the CZ 550 Magnum would be an ideal marketing gimmick, IF marketing is desired.

Maybe we are waiting on Dwight to send something to me?

Right now, I NEED a Rusty McGee build on a CZ,
which suits me just fine.
In fact, Rusty McGee's Hilltop Gunshop, at Falls of Rough, Kentucky would be the ideal home for a .375/404 Jeffery Saeed reamer(s) and "factory."

I will send Rusty the CZ 550 Magnum rifle.
Specify barrel, trigger, safety, stock (original or replacement), and magazine reinforcement.
Anachronistic barrel hardware attachments may also be specified (iron sights, barrel bands, secondary recoil lugs), but those are interesting me little these days.
I still cannot give up a sling, however.
When I crawl on hands and knees I like to sling the rifle under my chest/belly.
I do not like scooting on hands and butt with rifle in lap.

Sighting equipment you add yourself: Leupold 2.5-8X with reticle and rings of your choice.

RIP, being the nostalgic type, and being especially grateful for all the many ways that Saeed and Accuratereloading have enriched my life, you know that I would also very much like to build and hunt with a 375/404 JS, one much like you have described. Should Rusty end up with a reamer and become the "factory", I would like his contact info.

I would also have to depart from the precedent set by Saeed when it comes to sling studs.

Cheers, and Merry Christmas my friend.
Chris

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Jim,
If not the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed,
alternative is this:

Beautiful!

I presume Walter is going to test this on a cape buff? Will video be available?

quote:

Originally posted by Canuck:

RIP, being the nostalgic type, and being especially grateful for all the many ways that Saeed and Accuratereloading have enriched my life, you know that I would also very much like to build and hunt with a 375/404 JS, one much like you have described. Should Rusty end up with a reamer and become the "factory", I would like his contact info.

I would also have to depart from the precedent set by Saeed when it comes to sling studs.

Cheers, and Merry Christmas my friend.
Chris

Canuck,
Thanks. Will do.

Jim,
If Walter The UnWorthy touched Mjolnir, it would turn into a gnarled wooden walking stick, something he might be able to wield semicompetently.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Regarding .375/404 JS:

What Saeed posted on the Tanzania 2011 thread, from "The Alps" early AM of 12/26/11 local time:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
RIP,

I have been out of the country for a bit, and I will get you all the information once I am back.

We are being snowed over every day, with tempratures that hover between 2 to 12 degrees under in the French Alps ...

The concept of the .375/404 JS cartridge design
is to the true rifleman's mind
as the Rapunzel doll is to my granddaughter:



HAPPY NEW YEAR!
2012 may be the year that the TOP SECRET .375/404 JS is finally declassified.

1912: .375 H&H "widely available"
2012: .375/404 JS "finally available"

Bump.

Happy New Year!

Canuck,
Thanks for the bump!
Saeed may be back in Dubai about Jan. 3, 2012, eh?
Hopefully his skiing injuries will not slow him down.
He never missed a beat after that severe shrapnel wound to his leg in Tanzania this year.
Walter had his back that time.
With friends like Walter ...

The Mad Cow that fell to a .375 H&H after a 460 Wby double-lung,
on a Kentucky hobby farm, 1995.
She did not kill anymore sheep after this:

Here is one of my favorite 375/404 JS pictures.