quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Nothin' wrong with marmite!

It surely beats the heck out of that Aussie vegemite stuff!

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
ledvm,
i have devloped a likeing for it when I was living in the bush at Tsavo. and now I can only get it when I go back to africa have not been able to find a supplier here

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Wilderness hunting is far and away the best, as far as I'm concerned.

But it's a mistake to think that one must be willing to suffer to hunt in the wilderness.

Not so. Planning and preparation are key.

I'm reminded here of what the self-made millionaire said about money: "I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better."

While hunting in the wild places of the world, I've been comfortable and I've been miserable.

Comfortable is better.

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quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Wilderness hunting is far and away the best, as far as I'm concerned.

But it's a mistake to think that one must be willing to suffer to hunt in the wilderness.

Not so. Planning and preparation are key.

I'm reminded here of what the self-made millionaire said about money: "I've been rich and I've been poor. Rich is better."

While hunting in the wild places of the world, I've been comfortable and I've been miserable.

Comfortable is better.

quote:

Originally posted by ddrhook:
jboutfishn,
Thank you your a great man even if you live in the arm pit of the world I was raised in Red bluff

quote:

I am not quite sure where the 5 star thing and hunting got lumped together.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
With due respect to everyone here - how many are equipped for a wilderness hunt?

In the other thread about what one carries on the belt, pack etc., I find no mention of anyone hunting for a full day on foot, let alone for a week on foot.

How many hunters know how to read topo maps, navigate with compass and use survival gear in the bush if you had to spend the night?

May be it should be another thread, but I do not want to offend anyone....

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:

quote:

I am not quite sure where the 5 star thing and hunting got lumped together.

Amen to that Mike Smith

I do like to be able to cape out,gut,skin and cut up my own game animal,I dont need or want someone else to do it for me either.

For those that don't do any of this at all and cant do it I wonder how they would do on an unguided hunt some where in the world where it is allowed.

Hunting is hunting..not collecting and certainly not holidaying.

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quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
With due respect to everyone here - how many are equipped for a wilderness hunt?

In the other thread about what one carries on the belt, pack etc., I find no mention of anyone hunting for a full day on foot, let alone for a week on foot.

How many hunters know how to read topo maps, navigate with compass and use survival gear in the bush if you had to spend the night?

May be it should be another thread, but I do not want to offend anyone....

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quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Perhaps I should have defined the last option a bit better. (and will amend)

What I meant was:

In a more basic camp, hunting in a massive true wilderness area where the hunt is as much of an adventure as it is a hunt? (for plains and dangerous game).

The camp would have toilets and showers but few roads so a degree of bush bashing would be called for and probably lack a few nicities such as perimiter fences so an occasional visit from lions etc might not be out of the question. Some fly camping might also be expected. Food would be plentiful but fairly basic.

quote:

In a more basic camp, hunting in a massive true wilderness area where the hunt is as much of an adventure as it is a hunt? (for plains and dangerous game). Food would be plentiful but fairly basic.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Please tell me what kind of hunter you are. Do you want and are you willing and able to hunt Africa:

The camp would have toilets and showers but few roads so a degree of bush bashing would be called for.

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quote:

Originally posted by crooknees:
Been using same style of camp for 20 years.

quote:

You want to skin your game, have at it! No one is going to stop you, it is your trip! But at, say, $1000/day, maybe $2000/day, it is stupid! Your time is better spent hunting than skinning, and that is why there are skinners!

quote:

But realize, while the perogative is yours, most of the time choosing to skin, or to help skin, is less efficient all in. You are replacing a skinner who gets, even after gratuity, dollars a day with your own labor, your skinning labor is suplanting your hunting time at the cost of maybe $50 to $300/hour. That is stupid (unless the experience of doing it worth more than that $50 to $300 an hour, which it was for me for a couple of samples; pitching in on elephants is just cutting down the time the trackers, PH and truck are tied up in recovery, helping create more hunting time within the time frame of a safari.)

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quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
With due respect to everyone here - how many are equipped for a wilderness hunt?

In the other thread about what one carries on the belt, pack etc., I find no mention of anyone hunting for a full day on foot, let alone for a week on foot.

How many hunters know how to read topo maps, navigate with compass and use survival gear in the bush if you had to spend the night?

May be it should be another thread, but I do not want to offend anyone....

quote:

Originally posted by remglenn:
I much prefer to put my money into hunting a wilderness area without the frills of a fancy camp. I don't have the money to go 5 star and would choose a hunt with the most bang for the buck. Gryphon I know where you are coming from with the do lots of the skinning etc. yourself as we mostly self guide ourselves Down Under. Crookknees and I were lucky enough to do a budget hunt in Zim and scored some fantastic trophy animals. The camp conditions were probably way below what are available on many of the hunts I see on this site but were great by our lowly standards. One thing we found was that the trackers/skinners didn't mind some interaction while skinning but it was obvious that they were uncomfortable if we outstayed our welcome. You just have to play it by ear.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:

quote:

I am not quite sure where the 5 star thing and hunting got lumped together.

Amen to that Mike Smith

I do like to be able to cape out,gut,skin and cut up my own game animal,I dont need or want someone else to do it for me either.

For those that don't do any of this at all and cant do it I wonder how they would do on an unguided hunt some where in the world where it is allowed.

Hunting is hunting..not collecting and certainly not holidaying.

The link between five star camp and safaris, top flight African hunting has been there for a generation and more. Time has morphed the definition of five star, in a top flight hotel in Paris, London or New York same as it has for a camp in the remote bush, but the link has been there as long as safaris. See for example Teddy Roosevelt's safari, or Raurk's, etc, etc, etc.

Mike Smith and you seem to try to make the point that comfortable camps, even five star camps and fantastic African hunting can't go together, but that just isn't so.

In fact, it is almost, not entirely, but almost the opposite in Africa. I am pretty confident that if you were to research the top flight wilderness area ourfitters, the top flight wilderness hunting areas, you will find, for the most part, top flight camps.

I am also confident that you will find correlation between second and third tier wilderness hunting areas and second and third tier camps.

Will there be exceptions, sure, always. And there will be times when it is wise to abandon, at least temporarily a five star camp for a fly camp to, say, cut down on drive distance to leave more hunting time, or to cut down on vehicle movement to avoid alerting game, especially elephant.

As far as wanting to do your own tracking, without the assistance of trackers and PH, have at it! Your hunt will be a frustrating, maybe unsatisfying, failure. Hell, the PH relies on the trackers and both PH's and trackers learned their skills over years of apprenticeship.

Just as a PH would struggle on an elk or grizzly or brown bear hunt, so would the most experienced North American hunter struggle on their African hunt. Learning the ways of the game you hunt is a big part of success. You can begin learning day one, to do that think of your PH as your mentor, you tutor, the journeyman from whom you learn. At home, maybe it was your father, or an uncle or friend who started you, maybe you started on your own, but it took more than week or three to learn the ropes, right? Those first few years weren't really hunting, eh? You were being led around, or foundering about on your own, eh?

You want to skin your game, have at it! No one is going to stop you, it is your trip! But at, say, $1000/day, maybe $2000/day, it is stupid! Your time is better spent hunting than skinning, and that is why there are skinners!

Now, it may be all part of the experience for you, skinning out some, even all of the animals you kill. I've pitched in to skin more than a few, some plains game and buff to learn of differences from our game here (answer: few until you get to thick skinned game like elephants), some elephants to accelerate the job's completion so I could get back to hunting, some because of the shear volume of work to do, like when we had two elephants down.

But realize, while the perogative is yours, most of the time choosing to skin, or to help skin, is less efficient all in. You are replacing a skinner who gets, even after gratuity, dollars a day with your own labor, your skinning labor is suplanting your hunting time at the cost of maybe $50 to $300/hour. That is stupid (unless the experience of doing it worth more than that $50 to $300 an hour, which it was for me for a couple of samples; pitching in on elephants is just cutting down the time the trackers, PH and truck are tied up in recovery, helping create more hunting time within the time frame of a safari.)

And none of these desires to track or to skin are in any way related to the comfort of the camp. The trip is yours to do as you wish, five star camp or one star dump.

BTW, I like your camp. Functional, efficient pretty comfortable for what it is. Africa is different in one critical way which makes five star camps feasible, and that difference is the cost of labor.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Smith:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:

quote:

I am not quite sure where the 5 star thing and hunting got lumped together.

Amen to that Mike Smith

I do like to be able to cape out,gut,skin and cut up my own game animal,I dont need or want someone else to do it for me either.

For those that don't do any of this at all and cant do it I wonder how they would do on an unguided hunt some where in the world where it is allowed.

Hunting is hunting..not collecting and certainly not holidaying.

The link between five star camp and safaris, top flight African hunting has been there for a generation and more. Time has morphed the definition of five star, in a top flight hotel in Paris, London or New York same as it has for a camp in the remote bush, but the link has been there as long as safaris. See for example Teddy Roosevelt's safari, or Raurk's, etc, etc, etc.

Mike Smith and you seem to try to make the point that comfortable camps, even five star camps and fantastic African hunting can't go together, but that just isn't so.

In fact, it is almost, not entirely, but almost the opposite in Africa. I am pretty confident that if you were to research the top flight wilderness area ourfitters, the top flight wilderness hunting areas, you will find, for the most part, top flight camps.

I am also confident that you will find correlation between second and third tier wilderness hunting areas and second and third tier camps.

Will there be exceptions, sure, always. And there will be times when it is wise to abandon, at least temporarily a five star camp for a fly camp to, say, cut down on drive distance to leave more hunting time, or to cut down on vehicle movement to avoid alerting game, especially elephant.

As far as wanting to do your own tracking, without the assistance of trackers and PH, have at it! Your hunt will be a frustrating, maybe unsatisfying, failure. Hell, the PH relies on the trackers and both PH's and trackers learned their skills over years of apprenticeship.

Just as a PH would struggle on an elk or grizzly or brown bear hunt, so would the most experienced North American hunter struggle on their African hunt. Learning the ways of the game you hunt is a big part of success. You can begin learning day one, to do that think of your PH as your mentor, you tutor, the journeyman from whom you learn. At home, maybe it was your father, or an uncle or friend who started you, maybe you started on your own, but it took more than week or three to learn the ropes, right? Those first few years weren't really hunting, eh? You were being led around, or foundering about on your own, eh?

You want to skin your game, have at it! No one is going to stop you, it is your trip! But at, say, $1000/day, maybe $2000/day, it is stupid! Your time is better spent hunting than skinning, and that is why there are skinners!

Now, it may be all part of the experience for you, skinning out some, even all of the animals you kill. I've pitched in to skin more than a few, some plains game and buff to learn of differences from our game here (answer: few until you get to thick skinned game like elephants), some elephants to accelerate the job's completion so I could get back to hunting, some because of the shear volume of work to do, like when we had two elephants down.

But realize, while the perogative is yours, most of the time choosing to skin, or to help skin, is less efficient all in. You are replacing a skinner who gets, even after gratuity, dollars a day with your own labor, your skinning labor is suplanting your hunting time at the cost of maybe $50 to $300/hour. That is stupid (unless the experience of doing it worth more than that $50 to $300 an hour, which it was for me for a couple of samples; pitching in on elephants is just cutting down the time the trackers, PH and truck are tied up in recovery, helping create more hunting time within the time frame of a safari.)

And none of these desires to track or to skin are in any way related to the comfort of the camp. The trip is yours to do as you wish, five star camp or one star dump.

BTW, I like your camp. Functional, efficient pretty comfortable for what it is. Africa is different in one critical way which makes five star camps feasible, and that difference is the cost of labor.

JPK

JPK, I think you have misread me entirely. First I like my comfort as much as the next guy. A 5 star resort accomodation with swimming pool and all the extras just isnt necesarry to a good hunt. I enjoy good food however cooked, simple in the peasant tradition or the grand style of the gourmet. All of which can be done in a simple remote camp. I am not against nice camps I am against detracting from the experience of the hunt. I dont need s swimming pool in camp for any reason, unless we can get permision to turn it into a fish pond. Shades of Beverly Hillbillys. I just dont see where the priority got put on the star rating of the camp rather than the hunting and the number and qualitaty of the animals. Comfort is fine, but should not get in the way of actuall hunting. what is important to me is to be in as much of an uspoiled and rugged/beautifull terrain. It dosnt mean it is so rugged I cant navigate it. I want the emphasys put on the hunting and the animals. I will pitch in and help as much or as little as needed. I will try to take it all in and learn from it. How things at camp are set up and built. How they deall with everday problems we just take for granted. How the cook works and with what tools. I will get the ph and the trackers to continually point things out to me and allow me to do the track until I cant or make a blunder. Then school is in and I learn what I missed and what it should have shown me. I often ask one of the phs to watch my shooting to see if I am doing something particularly counter-productive to firing a a clean well aimed shot that hits where you planned and preforms perfectly. I can skin with the best of them but dont typically. The boys can still do it better and faster than me but even more so it is their jobs. It is a source of pride as well as income for them. Dosnt mean I wont jump in and help if there is a lot to do. A good camp can very well be a five star resort. On the other side a very basic setup with minimal creature comforts can be just as good. Personally I prefer the most remote place I can get and afford. Remote neither is cheap nor does it mean ruff. My money needs to be spent to get me into the best hunting areas with the least amount of people. I will walk all day if I am enjoying the hunt. I gues my ramble here is to show we need to pay more attention to the hunting. The rest of it is just a bonus for those who want it.
It is about the ph and staff doing their jobs in a quiet professional manner that in turn allows you to concentrate on the hunt.

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