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Poaching suspect: Court lowers bail 2011-04-19 10:31 Musina - The Musina Magistrate's Court in Limpopo has lowered the amount of the bail granted to rhino poaching accused Dawie Groenewald from R1 million to R100 000, Beeld newspaper reported on Tuesday. Groenewald, a game farmer, posted bail in September. He brought an application on Monday to lower the bail amount. His lawyer, Thomas Grobler, told Beeld that the court lowered his bail to R100 000. Groenewald, 42, who owns the farm, Prachtig, outside Musina, was arrested last year with several other people, including his wife and two veterinarians, on charges related to rhino poaching. The group was expected to appear in court again on September 30. - SAPA Harris Safaris PO Box 853 Gillitts RSA 3603 www.southernafricansafaris.co.za https://www.facebook.com/pages...=aymt_homepage_panel "There is something about safari life that makes you forget all your sorrows and feel as if you had drunk half a bottle of champagne." - Karen Blixen, | ||
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Does lowering of the bail indicate the court does not consider rhino poaching to be a serious crime? Cheers, ~ Alan Life Member NRA Life Member SCI email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow | |||
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I'm not a legal guy, but by my understanding bail is set in an attempt to ensure that the accused does in fact appear in court on the trail date. In deciding on the amount the court considers essentially the "escape risk", which, of course, is higher with more serious crimes where the penalties are likely to be higher. The court that now lowered the bail from R 1 000 000 to R 100 000 probably also considered the R 900 000 released would be more profitably distributed amongst the legal profession as bribes and favours by Groenewald in preparation for his actual trail?  I, for one, have not found Groenewald guilty yet, but the press reports certaily shows a lot of smoke! There 'must' be a fire? Wait and see how this pans out. Andrew McLaren | |||
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 Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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Why hire a lawyer when you can buy a judge? | |||
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I don't mean to be impertinent, but that is how you select your lawyer. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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The latest that I heard was not only was his bail money lowered, but they courts also said there will be no poaching charges. It is possible that they've got the wrong guy. If everything is as corrupt as you paint it to be, maybe the corruption is on the other side. | |||
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+1 Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Welcome back "Adqueen"! We all know where you stand and who you support. What took you so long to comment on the various threads concerning your friends OOA? | |||
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 you gotta be kidding!!that man should be sentesed to min 20 years!!just one thing to say let that gang burn in jail for many years! | |||
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RCG...I just knew that you missed me! I have been quietly observing all of your commentary. I'm old enough and wise enough to know that there are always two sides to every story and nothing is as black and white as it may seem. Most of the threads about this whole incident are based on other blogs and not actual reporting, which slants the views right off the bat. I also know that my friends are OAAS are NOT poachers. | |||
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Or convicted in Federal Court, either.  JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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I'm not a legal trained person at all. But my understandingis that the "courts" do not decied on what charges to prosequte on, but the prosecuting authority doies that! The courts only acts as a finder of the truth!  You have seen that I said that I, for one, have not yet found Groenewald guilty?????? If your insinuation of corrupt as you paint it was meant for me, I stand by my view that, with very few exceptions [my own brother being one of these few], the whole of the South African central and provincial government and civil service, municipal service, postal service, SABC, and..., and...., and.... is corrupt from top to bottom. Yes, the relevant Nature Conservation authorities pressing the charges against Groenewald and his co-accused may very well be corrupt and may be pressing charges just to favor a family member or friend who will benifit by Groenewald's demise. For a good statement of my view of our governments total lack of competency please read Scriptus' signature! In good hunting. Andrew McLaren | |||
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Judge G: IIRC according "adqueen", they were innocent but plead guilty in Federal court to get it over with. Sound about right, "adqueen"? | |||
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I'm not a legaly trained person at all. But my understanding is that the "courts" do not decide on what charges to prosequte on, but the prosecuting authority does that! The courts only acts as a finder of the truth! You have seen that I said that I, for one, have not yet found Groenewald guilty?????? But there is a lot of smoke according to the local press!If your insinuation of 'as corrupt as you paint it' was meant for me, I stand by my view that, with very few exceptions [my own brother being one of these few], the whole of the South African central and provincial government from State President down to the tea lady, and civil service, municipal service, postal service, SABC, and..., and...., and.... is corrupt from top to bottom. Yes, I quite readily admit that the relevant Nature Conservation authorities pressing the charges against Groenewald and his co-accused may very well be corrupt and may be pressing charges just to favor a family member or political friend who will benifit by Groenewald's demise. We live in a country well on it's way to a like Mugabe form Zimbabwe caused shambles. For a good statement of my view of our governments total lack of competency please read Scriptus' signature! In good hunting. Andrew McLaren Andrew McLaren Professional Hunter and Hunting Outfitter since 1974. http://www.mclarensafaris.com The home page to go to for custom planning of ethical and affordable hunting of plains game in South Africa! Enquire about any South African hunting directly from andrew@mclarensafaris.com After a few years of participation on forums, I have learned that: One can cure: Lack of knowledge – by instruction. Lack of skills – by practice. Lack of experience – by time doing it. One cannot cure: Stupidity – nothing helps! Anti hunting sentiments – nothing helps! Put-‘n-Take Outfitters – money rules! My very long ago ancestors needed and loved to eat meat. Today I still hunt! | |||
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Andrew....I meant nothing personal towards you at all. In fact, I have no idea who you are or your position on politics, etc. I only meant that sometimes the authorities arrest the wrong people. And for what it's worth, no country is perfect. There is corruption everywhere...although South Africa seems worst than most. | |||
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The initial bail is called the "Squeeze period" whereby the accused has time to ponder his/her situation. Under a 1 mil bond, the thought of years in prison begin to sound unpleasant, thus giving the accused time to consider his/her chances in a court of law, especially when International opinion is livid for a quilty verdict. By lowering a bail by 90%, this allows the accused to sort out their option of donating to the court's drink fund. This then falls into the "What, me worry?" phase, which the accused loses no more sleep. By the court date (which can be postponed for long periods of time) the public goes onto other concerns and the quiet "trial period" floats by with little notice. Generally, there is a fine of say $25 plus court costs and the "accused" is left to the "minding my own damn business" once again. I hope this explains the legal system in RSA. Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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When you plead guilty to a charge(s) you must state that you in fact did commit that offense(s). It is unlawful to state that you did in fact commit the offence(s) that you're pleading to if in fact you did NOT perpetrate said offence(s). Jack OH GOD! {Seriously, we need the help.} | |||
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of course he is! he has already admitted to it and pled guilty in Federal court. please get your facts straight or shut up. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I bet SCI will give many African countries a good run for their money when it comes to corruption! You know, if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and squawks like a duck, then it MUST be a duck. The courts in SA can decide whatever they wish, what we have heard so far about those guys, as well as Out of Africa and their sidekicks in SCI, leaves very little in my mind that they are guilty of some nasty crimes! | |||
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jdollar----I DO HAVE MY FACTS STRAIGHT! What I said was "I also know that my friends at OAAS are NOT poachers". They NEVER plead guilty to rhino poaching!!!! It is YOU who has the facts wrong. Not only were the poaching allegations (no formal charges, mind you) in South Africa, NOT the U.S. Federal courts, but the guilty plea in the U.S. Federal courts was regarding a leopard skin shipment. (And, please don't tell me to "shut up") | |||
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Oops! Make that leopard poaching, I guess? Reference: If the shoe fits, wear it!
JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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which was illegally shot and imported into the US- i.e. poaching. surely you can do better than that. a rather pathetic attempt at best to turn chicken shit into chicken salad. REPEAT- SHUT UP IF THAT'S THE BEST YOU CAN DO! people here are not as gullible as you seem to think and certainly not as stupid as you seem to be. Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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My my, Jdollar. You seem to have a lot of anger within you. Have you sought counseling? | |||
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jdollar, Probably shouldn't do this, but as a licensed criminal psychologist, I am at your service. Not for providing you with counseling, but for those in S. Africa. .395 Family Member DRSS, po' boy member Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship | |||
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Adqueen, It has been my observation that those who plead guilty damn sure are and have no other way out. They plead guilty to cut a deal and get out as cheaply as possible. In those cases the prosecution will not cut the deal otherwise. For people who may or may not be guilty but just want to get it over with and move on it is handled differently. Again there will be some type of plea deal put in place but the defendent will plead no contest. Last how do YOU explain 30 or so rhino carcases buried on Dawie's place? Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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once again adqueen, if that hair splitting is the best you can do-STFU. rhino, leopard- blah, blah, blah. you only are succeeding in making yourself look like a bigger and bigger fool/tool. the people on this website are not the average idiots you are apparently used to selling chicken shit to and calling it chicken salad.  Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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