Here's the real test.

What would have happened if Ganyana had not posted on this subject and someone booked a hunt?

The hunter goes to ZIM, but finds out that the hunt is not allowed.

Would the Van Heerdens blame the screw up on the government (or someone else), and the hunter has no way of knowing the whole story (he's not a member of AR) so he believes the Van Heerdens.

Would there be a refund of all the costs of the safari, including the airfare? Or would the hunter be offered a discount on a future safari?

I guess we will never know for sure.

But you know what usually happens in that circumstance. "Sorry, but it's Africa. We'll give you a discount on a future safari."

Regards,

Terry

Terry,

But if you always have your contract in your pocket this would be no problem and would get sorted out quickly.

I couldn't help myself. Sorry.

Bill,

In this case the contract would be very helpful. The hunter could use it to wipe the tears from his eyes.

Regards,

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Pete,

It does appear that Van Heerden spinned the status of the government's approval of this plan to Adam. At best one might conclude that he overstated his case.

As for the rest, it is of course possible that a bribe was used to attempt to influence the government's position on this matter. That happens in far less corrupt places than Zim. There is room for plenty of speculation on that in this case, but not enough (or any, really) hard evidence to support that as a firm conclusion.

Van Heerden's conduct in dealing with the government--i.e., exactly how he attempted to change its policy/laws--is unknown, except for his written proposal, which does seem like it may have been a CYA move, given its timing.

Also, Van Heerden's conduct in marketing these hunts, on his own or through others besides Adam, is also an unknown. Clearly someone will have some explaining to do to at least two of your countrymen.
I don't think it's a good idea to speculate too much about these things, though. And charity is a virtue.

Mrlexma,

With regards the two Brits, if they have violated British law/sanctions by taking firearms into Zim, they are royaly screwed...I mean, just who can they complain to?

As to the issue of bribes, you are quite right there has been no suggesttion of that in this case from anything said or quoted...It was mearly me being cynical in the wider sense about how things get done in Zim and perhaps to a lesser degree other country's too..

Regards,

Pete

Is there any more news on whether those unfortunate Britishers got their money back, and whether the Van's are the culprits with regard to the Britishers or are there other shady players lurking about selling hunts which do not exist?

I believe someone mentioned that Adam "Safari 12" is out of the country.

Regards,

Terry

Bwanahile,

As Terry said and Kathi and I both stated in previous posts Adam will be out of the country until Monday.

Regards,

Mark

Sorry about being absent for some time now, but have been out of the country and not able to keep up with your statements and questions etc. As much as I hate to even bring the topic back up again to the front, I feel that it is my duty to reply and let you know my final thoughts and some facts on this issue. My honor and reputation has been challenged on this issue, but see that most of you are starting to understand how all of this came about, and that I did not make up anything and was only acting on what I thought at the time to be above board and legal hunts.

Here are some points and some correspondance for you all to consider, and you should then understand that I never did anything wrong from day 1 on this.

1) The van heerdens contacted me about these ration hunts which I have posted earlier on. I have posted the e-mails that I got from the van heerdens which spicifically show that there was never once mention of any test marketing. Their e-mails to me stated that these hunts were a done deal and that everything was in motion to go ahead and book hunts. Here are a few quotes from the e-mails that I got which can not be agrued that I did get the go ahead for these hunts.

quote:

April 7th - HI ADAM
HOPE ALL IS WELL,HAVE A FEW HUNTS AVAILABLE IN ZIM TO SELL IF YOURE INTERESTED,WORKING IN CONJUCTION WITH NATIONAL PARKS.
HUNTS WILL TAKE PLACE IN THE ZAMBEZI VALLEY AND KARIBA AREAS.
BEST REGARDS
AJ

Nothing is mentioned about these hunts not being approved yet!

quote:

April 8th - WE HAVE GOT THE ANIMALS TO HUNT IN CHEWORE,NYAKASANGA,SAPI,CHARARA-MAKUTI AND MATUSADONA!THE REASON NON EXPORT AND EXPORT IS THAT THE ELEPHANT IVORY HAS TO WAIT UNTIL DECEMBER TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY CITIES TAGS LEFT,IF THERE ARE WHICH THERE NORMALLY IS THEN WE CAN EXPORT THEM!
THIS IS A NEW DEVELOPMENT WHICH WE HAVE ORGANIZED WITH PARKS,BUT NEXT SEASON THEY WILL SET TAGS ASIDE FOR US!
PROMPT EXPORT IS DEFINITE AS WE ARE WORKING WITH THE DIRECTOR GENERAL OF PARKS HERE!

If you read this e-mail the way I did, it clearly tells me that they already have the quota and everything is ready to go. They even mention about these hunts being available for next year! I also talked with them on the phone and never once was it stated to me that these hunts were any test, but quite the opposite. I was told that these hunts had been approved and that the only remaining paper work to get were the actual permits for the hunts, and a final signature from the Director General, but that he had already approved everything and just needed to sign off. I specifically asked if I should go ahead and market the hunts or wait. I was told to go ahead and market the hunts and never once was I told to do a test market. As far as I was concerned or knew at the time, everything was done and I should go ahead and book clients on these hunts. (By the way, I did not book any clients or take any money for these hunts.)

2) Here is an e-mail I received from Barry about the latest on this issue.

quote:

JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THIS MATTER HAS NOW BEEN HANDED OVER TO LAWYERS..I AM TAKING ZATSO TO COURT. I WILL GET A COPY OF THE PAPERS THAT ARE BEING SERVED ON SALLY BOWN/ZATSO, AND SCAN AND SEND TO YOU. HOLD TIGHT FOR A FEW DAYS, I WILL CLEAR YOU OF ANY WRONG DOING WITH ALL OF THIS, PARKS HAVE NOT PUT OUT THEIR OFFICIAL STATEMENT AS ZATSO KEEP MAKING FURTHER STATEMENTS AND ARE NOW TRYING BACK TRACK, TURN IT INTO A POLITICAL ISSUE....

PLEASE BEAR WITH ME...I WILL GET ALL OF THIS STRIAGTHENED OUT!! wE HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG, ZATSO HAVE FUCKED-UP MAKING STATEMENTS, THAT ACTUALY ARE UP TO NATIONAL PARKS TO MAKE!!! THEY ARE THE REGULATORY BODY IN ZIMB, NOT ZATSO.

THERE ARE ROUGHLY 550 REGISTERED P/HUNTERS AND GUIDES IN ZIMB....ONLY 122 ARE MEMBERS OF Z.P.H.G.A AND THERE ARE ROUGHLY 400 REGISTERED HUNTING AND PHOTOGRAPHIC OPERATORS AND ONLY ABOUT 70 ODD ARE MEMBERS OF ZATSO........SHOWS YOU WHAT A GREAT AS THEY ARE RUNNING IF THEY CAN ONLY GET ROUGHLY 25% MEMBERSHIP OF REGISTERED OPERATORS.

WILL KEEP YOU POSTED ADAM...I AM GOING ROAST THEIR ASSES IF IT COSTS ME EVERY PENNY I HAVE SAVED!!!!!

BEST REGARDS

BARRY

3) Here is another e-mail from Barry I got this morning the 25th of April.

quote:

I APPRECIATE YOUR CO-OPERATION ON THE ABOVE ISSUE. I DO APOLOGISE FOR THE NEGATIVE PUBLICITY THAT WE HAVE PICKED UP REGARDING THESE HUNTS. THE TRUE FACTS ARE :-

1.YES WE GAVE YOU THE GO AHEAD TO MARKET THESE HUNTS
2.WE HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH NATIONAL PARKS, THEY FULLY AGREE NOTHING ILLEGAL HAS BEEN DONE,AS NO HUNT HAD TAKEN PLACE WITHOUT A PERMIT.
3.WE ALL AGREED, ONCE THE PERMIT HAD BEEN SIGNED, WE WOULD KNOW EXACTLY HOW AND WHEN TO BOOK THE HUNTS,DATES ETC.

ZATSO GOT INVOLVED WITH SOMETHING THAT DOESN`T CONCERN THEM, AND FAILED TO INVESTIGATE / HANDLE THE ISSUE IN THE PROPER MANNER. IF YOU GO ONTO THEIR WEBSITE www.soaz.net YOU WILL CLEARY SEE UNDER THE `TERMS` THAT THEY STATE , SHOULD ANY MEMBERS OF THE HUNTING PUBLIC AT LARGE HAVE ANY COMPLAINTS AGAINST MEMBERS OF EITHER ZATSO OR ZPHGA, THEY ARE TO CONTACT THEIR OFFICES, AND SUBMIT A FULL REPORT, AND THEY WILL FURTHER INVESTIGATE. HOWEVER IF ANYONE HAD A COMPLAINT AGAINST ANYONE NOT A MEMBER OF EITHER ZATSO OR ZPHGA, THEY SHOULD CONTACT EITHER NATIONAL PARKS , OR ZIMBABWE TOURIST AUTHORITY, BOTH ADDRESSES ARE SUPPLIED.

MY DEALINGS WITH NATIONAL PARKS HAVE GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH ZATSO/ZPHGA WHATSOEVER. IF THE HUNTS WHERE ILLEGAL, NATIONAL PARKS WOULD THEMSELVES PUT OUT A NOTICE, NOT UP TO ZATSO. I AM TAKING ZATSO TO COURT FOR PUTTING DAMNING INFORMATION OUT, WHEN THEY HAVE NO JURISDICTION . THEY SHOULD HAVE FORWARDED INFO THEY HAD, AND LET NATIONAL PARKS AND ZIMBABWE TOURISM AUTHORITY INVESTIGATE. WHICH WOULD HAVE SHOWN, THAT I DO HAVE A PROPOSAL IN WITH NATIONAL PARKS.

PLEASE BEAR WITH ME, I WILL GET ALL THE RELEVANT DOCUMENTS TOGETHER FROM NATIONAL PARKS TO PROVE NOTHING ILLEGAL HAS BEEN OR WAS EVER COMMITTED.

Now, you tell me if I did not act according to the facts that I got and if I had any reason at all to think that these hunts were not legit. I do not see where I did anything wrong at all, and was simply trusting the PH's and outfitter and then doing my job in marketing these hunts. It is not like I did not know the PH's or the areas, as I have hunted these areas before and know them. I also know the van heerdens, and no reason to think that they were not telling me the truth.

4) Do I think that these hunts were illegal?
No, I do not think that these hunts were illegal at all. A hunt can not be illegal if you have the approval and paper work from the Parks, which I was told was done. I do not want to speculate but, I also think think that the van heerdens would have gotten the permission and permit for these hunts if it had not turned into a political circus. The whole problem here is that the van heerdens thought that the deal was done and Parks had verbally agreed to the hunts, and then they jumped the gun when telling me to market the hunts, which then caused a big political fight.

5) Did the van heerdens do anything wrong?
Yes and No! Yes in the fact that they told me to market something that was not 100% approved and they made me believe that it was. I think that they really thought it was a done deal though and they were not worried about it at that time. As you can see from my previous posts, I was given the go ahead to market the hunts around the 8th of April, but then come to find out that the van heerdens only submitted the paper work to Parks on the 14th! This is where they were wrong and they jumped the gun and got me to go ahead and start pushing the hunts before they had everything finalized.

No, I do not think that they did anything wrong in the sense that they were following the correct procedures in the matter. The hunts may not be in agreement with the other outfitters there or Zatso, but if you consider the legality of the hunts, there was nothing wrong in their plan to conduct these hunts if they had the backing of the Parks. I do not know all of the legalities in Zim or what the correct procedures would be etc., but my opinion on this would be that if they went through the proper authority on these hunts, then I do not personally see where anything would be illegal. From what I have been told, Parks has the authority to approve and authorize anything they want, and that is what makes something legal or not. If the Director General and Parks approve something, then it would be legal from what I gather.

6) I have been straight up with everyone here and have passed along everything from day 1, so I do not think that anyone can say that I have anything to hide or have a hidden agenda at all. I would have never posted these hunts, if I thought that there would be a problem and have been up front with everything. I have not done anything wrong, and the only thing that I can admit to doing wrong if anything is by trusting and taking the word of the van heerdens. In this business though, I have to be able to trust PH's and outfitters all the time, as do every other booking agent. There is no way, that either I or any other agent can jump on a plan everytime we get a call about a cancellation hunt or special hunt deals. I have to be able to trust and go by the details that I get.

The difference in this though, is that I do back my clients and am 100% behind them and do make sure that my clients are satisfied at the end of the day. I can not predict problems in Africa and I have to conduct businees on my experience and with the trust of the outfitters and PH's that I work with. If something goes wrong, then we try and fix the problem, but at the end of the day I am always here for my clients and will make sure that they get their money worth. As I mentioned before, if these hunts had gone through, and a client went over there and it ended up back firing and they did not hunt, I would stand behind the client 100% and would have given a full refund, plus offer them a make up hunt somewhere else.

Also, to keep the record straight, I have not booked any hunts in the past with the van heerdens, but have known them for a long time. AJ has done some hunting for me in Tanzania as well, and have always known him as a straight shooter with me. I would have no reason at all to think that AJ would try to sell or offer me anything that he was not sure about. Others may have other dealings with them in the past and may not like them, but I personally have not had any bad experience with AJ and had no reason to think anything different.

I really do not know what will happen from here with this issue, and will leave it up to the van heerdens to sort themselves, as it looks like they are going to fight the issue, which also shows that they really do not think that they have done anything wrong either. But that is their business now and what they want to do from hear on out.

I have learned a lot from all of this, and hope that we all can take this as a great education. Everyone will still have a different opinion on the issue, and could be argued for a long time. It appears to me that it is a political struggle though, and it is a shame that in this business we can not get along and there is always a fight somewhere. Too much competition and too many new outfitters and agents who all of a sudden think they are experts on Africa.

I have washed my hands of these hunts, as I do not care to continue being involved with a big agruement and issue that may or may not be proved. As far as I am concerned I have been honest and respectful to everyone about this issue. I wanted to find out the honest truth about the whole issue just as much as anyone else did after I started getting flack from it. I do not think though that anyone can come up with a final answer on the issue and do not want to speculate myself. I want to thank those of you who did stand by me and who do know me well enough to know that I did not get my reputation and clientele from being dishonest. For those of you who did not stand by me and thought otherwise, I have no problem with you at all, and can just say that if you did know me, then you might have thought twice before trying to discredit me.

I also want to thank a lot of you who still e-mailed me and willing to book hunts regardless of what was being said. For those of you who did e-mail me about these hunts and being interested in them, as you can see and as I have already mentioned to you via e-mail, I will no longer offer these hunts. Due to the fact that these hunts did not work out and so many of you were interested, I feel bad that I no longer have an option for you to consider for an affordable buffalo hunt for this year. So, what I will do to make sure that you do have a second option to consider, will offer you a great buffalo hunt deal in Tanzania in one of our Selous blocks for this year only. If you are still interested in getting a buffalo hunt in this year with a friend, then just e-mail me, and will give you the details and open dates. I will offer a 2x1 or 4x2 hunt for $7,500 per hunter all inclusive of daily rates, government fees, dip/pack/crate, hunting license, gun permits, trophy handling, 1 buffalo trophy fee per hunter, and round trip charter to and from camp! You will be in one of our very comfortable and beautiful tented camps and can assure you 100% that these are not ration hunts. For those that will probably post to say that these are too good to be true, well, it is hard to believe, but as true as it gets, and is an excellent chance for those that have always wanted to hunt in the Selous. This area is not sub-leased and we have total control and exclusive.

Adam,

Admittedly you got blind-sided by all this, but it is to others credit that the question of illegality was raised. So we have all learned from this, and in the end no one got damaged or spent irreplaceable money.

Hopefully this dog is dead!

quote:

Final Statement from Barry van Heerden on the "ration hunt" issue. 19-4-2005

Parks are looking at ways to maximist their revenue collection, and after discussions with various parks officials we submitted a proposal to make economic use of the approved Ration quota. The Provincial Warden, Dr Madzikanda asked us for a written proposal including details of the actual dollar value of these hunts. To this end, we placed adverts in the local press and also contacted a US based agent to determine what we could actually sell such animals for.

No hunts have been sold, and no money taken as this proposal awaited further input and approval from the Director General, and at this time was merely market research to back up our proposal. The fact that the US Based agent advertised these hunts as actually being available is unfortunate.

Yours in Hunting

Barry van Heerden

Big Game Safaris

Adam,

I must say I am quite surprised at your reaction to all this, particularly considering the last paragraph of the email above circulated by Barry van Heerden.

Although you did not book any hunters before all this fell apart, it seems two Brits were sent over by persons unknown and their hunting trip has gone belly up so at least two people have been burnt by questionable business practice on the Zim end..

Regards,

Pete

I for one give Adam high marks for sharing all the information he had. Anyone can be blind sided. This can be a very tough croud...

Kudos as always to Ghyana as well. Having the Zim Parks prospective on just about all hunts advertised on this forum gives some very real assurance that what is posted here is on the up and up.

Brett

Adam, thanks for the additional detail. Just one more thing for clarification. Since National Parks controls the hunting for government concessions and hunting on those concessions may not be conducted without Nat Parks authorization, and since Nat Parks did not give authorization and has said they are not likely to, wouldn't that mean the hunts are not legal? No authoriation to hunt = hunt not legal?

Maybe these hunts would have been authorized by Parks if the Vans had not gotten the cart before the horse, and that is unfortunate. But it is very gracious of you to offer a nice deal in Tanzania instead.

Also, any further info on the unlucky Britishers would be appreciated, if anyone has some.

Hi there everyone,

Seems that my northern neighbours are attracting all the attention once again.

Pity , for my legal collegues on that side as everyone is getting swatted with the tarbrush on this issue.

But to everyone out there that is interested in a real legal buffalo and elephant package in Mozambique , where there are no warveterans or squibbles like Zim ,

Please feel free to contact me for the deal of a lifetime, one of the oldest Mozambique outfits all Legal and above suspicions and foul cries !!!!

All the best and guys one question to all thinking about those " Zim Specials " what happens when you do not get any trophies after the hunt or you get arrested with your dubious dishonest outfitter in Zim and end up in Chikurubi which is not the most favorable hotel ib Africa , will all those dollars you saved ?? then help you any at all


Keep the powder dry and aim straight

500grains, That is exactly what I have been trying to say this entire time, is that I did think that everything was and had been authorized, and as far as I knew it was just a matter of picking up the permits and the final signature from the DG. As it stands now and from has come out of all of this if a hunt had been booked and a client went over there the way it is now, then yes, the hunt would be illegal without the full authorization from the DG in Parks. BUT, this I did not know at the time I posted the hunts and thought all was in order.

No hunts have been conducted as far as I know, and as far as myself, no hunts were booked. I have no idea if anyone else was also told to market these hunts or not.

I have no clue on the Brits nor where they came from or what the story is on that. I will see if I can find out though.

Kwan
I think it is better for you to keep your nose out this issue and start your own post with all your great ideas and words of wisdom!

quote:

Please feel free to contact me for the deal of a lifetime, one of the oldest Mozambique outfits all Legal and above suspicions and foul cries !!!!

All the best and guys one question to all thinking about those " Zim Specials " what happens when you do not get any trophies after the hunt or you get arrested with your dubious dishonest outfitter in Zim and end up in Chikurubi which is not the most favorable hotel ib Africa , will all those dollars you saved ?? then help you any at all

________________

Post here and now - "your deal of a lifetime", with details and for all to see. Adam did, publically and he stands behind it.

Waiting to hear back from you. Thanks.
Dungbeetle

Adam,

Fault is where you find it. Some will and some won't find it with you in this case. You have very well stated your case and I, for one, am on your side. As one who has been labeled charitable, I see very well that you, too, wear the same label.

But charitable can too easily be deemed naive. As I have said above, I don't think you are guilty of anything--you have not behaved in any unethical, or far worse, any illegal, fashion.

Still, without trusted friends on the ground in Zim, how in God's name can you know whether truth is truth or the worst or even best kind of lie?

IMO, when one's name and good reputation are on the line, one must do what diligence is truly due. I readily admit, in Zim, that is as likely to happen as snowballs in Massachusetts in August.

And for that and other reasons, I don't hunt in Zimababwe and won't until things change for the much, much, better.

What I don't know about hunting in Zim WILL hurt me--and every other fool like me, too.

Thanks for the additional clarification, and best wishes for a safe and successful rest of the season.