I made a trip up to the Dallas SCI show to get fitted BY Russell for a pair of Russell's. I took them a piece of elephant hide that I wanted to use and had them make sure it would work. After getting measured and talking with one of the reps I decided on a pair of "Joe's PH", triple vamp, with brown canvas and brown Air Bob soles. Since I was looking for a boot for all-around hiking type use the gentlemen there thought that would be a good compromise. The only thing I didn't remember until I got home which I'll call them on promptly is speed laces which I like on my other hiking boots.

Most of the PH models are pretty similar, so I'll take feedback on any of them but if anyone has a pair of the "Joe's PH" models that'll be even better. Things can get pretty damp here in Tx during deer season and waterproofness atleast in the toe area was a must which is the reason I elected to go with the triple vamp vs. the standard double. The rep said that'd make them a little warmer of course, but I'm hoping they wont be all that bad because Texas can get warm during hunting season. Thoughts on the Joe's or standard PH models? Anything else I should know?

I have a pair of the Joes PH and love them, have worn them to africa twice and argentina once, only think I would change is I would have added heel counters.

Great boots.

I'e got a pair of Joe's PH (special), double vamp, VIBRAM Newporter sole with 1/4" heel, speed laces and green canvas sides.

I got 'em with thin soles so I could "feel" the ground while I'm stalkin' white-tails.


Best boots I ever had, you'll love your Russells!

Awesome. Thanks for the feedback gentlemen. That was what I was hoping to hear. I did not get the heel counters. After reading some of the older threads about some of the other PH models I'm wondering if I couldn't have them added. :/ I'll give it some thought over the next couple of days. I'm sure that it'll be a while before my leather and order etc. both make it back to Wisconsin anyway.

Good luck. My wife was fitted at SCI in 2010 at the Russell booth. She still does not have a pair that fits. They were not even close the first or second time. We brought them to Dallas (2011) and she was measured again by Russell. We left the boots with them. I hope they fit this time since we paid for them one year ago.

This will be the last pair of boots we ever order from Russell.

For moccasins, Russells has it down.

But as for boots, now that's another story.

As long as Ecco's boots can be bought (or even far lesser brands), Russell's boots will not see another nickel of my money.

Thanks for the info Mike & Mike. Sorry to hear that you had issues. Like I said, the SCI Dallas show was where I got measured as well. Yesterday afternoon actually. Hopefully all goes well. Since all of this hide came in from the elephant that my father killed in SA we've been trying to figure out what to do with all of it, and the leather itself is great so I'm hoping that the boots turn out equally great. They should be gorgeous... or that's my hope anyway. We'll see how it goes, and I'll certainly respond either way once they come back. The guy at the show quoted 4 mos.

I had a pair of Thula-Thula with the thin vibram made. I love them. Canvas sides with speed laces. Fit perfect. Was measured at Dallas and had no problems. I told them that I wore 10 1/2's and they contacted me prior to making the boot saying their measurements did not come out to 10 1/2. I remeasured and they made them and the rest is history.

Like Nemo .450 you can feel the ground unlike a thick vibram sole. Mine have no heel and I prefer it that way. That is the design of the Thula-Thula.

Dutch

I've had Joe's PH Russels for a year or so....ordered them at DSC. They've been to Namibia and Zim, and still look near new....except for the blood from my 54" Kudu on them!

I have several pairs of Russells including the Joe's PH. Love them all!! Just ordered a pair of Bird Shooters that my wife gave me as a Christmas present.

As I've said before, occassionally they mess up and you'll get a pair that doesn't fit but if you're patient and follow-up with Ralph he'll get them right eventually. Believe me, they're worth the hassle.

BTW Kingfisher, it isn't the "SCI Dallas show"...yet....it's the DSC Dallas show. Us DSCers are very particular about the distinction between DSC and SCI.

Good luck with your boots!

Regards,
Scott

lol Beg your pardon Scott, sorry about that. I attended the DSC show in Dallas.

I'm sure I'll go back and forth in my head 100x but for now I'm going to skip the heel counters but I am still going to add the speed laces. I'll let them get settled back in Wisconsin for a couple of days and get their paperwork in order then give'em a call to have the speed laces added.

Had a pair of triple vamp High Country Hunters made several years ago. They fit great, and have worn well. I reccomend Russell highly.

I was measured at SCI for custom built, because of my narrow low volume feet. They shipped me off the shelf boots. Sloppy loose boots for $400 bucks. Contacted them. They did not even claim it was an accident. They eventually decided to "re-build" a pair for me just for customer satisfaction, since they did nothing wrong in the first place.

I highly recommend Russel boots. Misery loves company.

I wear the Joe's and like them. That said, I had to send them back b/c the original paid did not fit. I like the pull on loop and the speed laces. I have a wedge sole that is good in sand and super quiet. I cannot comment on waterproofing.

I bought a pair a few years ago. They are comfortable, but I found them to be a real pain to get on and off over my foot. The bottom line is that they are in a closet somewhere and I have not worn them on three trips to Africa. For the money they aren't worth it in my opinion.

You may want to consider adding poron if the boots will see much hard or rocky ground. They are a nice boot.

HBH, I've been thinking about that too. Considering my current hikers are a pair of mid-height Gore-Tex Nike's that are no longer made (fantastic boots as far as I'm concerned) I want a boot that has got a little give to it. I just happened to have the Nike's in the truck this morning so I was looking them over. They're pretty stout in the heel. If the Russel's don't have any stiffness to speak of there, I'll definitely have to add the counters. If they're moderately supportive sans counters, then I'm sure it'll be fine. Problem is I just don't know.

Does anyone have a pair without the heel counters and if so, how much stiffness have you got back there, or is it nothing at all?

Kingfisher-

I don't have heel counters and am very happy with mine. I've worn mine to Africa with great results, but they spend more time on the ground at my ranch in the Hill Country, which, as you know, is very rocky and loaded with prickly pear. With the wedge and Huez sole I am perfectly happy with them but do agree that for that type of terrain I would be better served with a stiffer boot, hence my recent order of a pair of Signature Bird Shooters that are triple vamp with the poron slip sole. If you want a stalking boot, my suggestion would be to just get the Joe's PH without too many changes and wear the heck out of 'em.

My wife got her Mtn PHs, which are lined with Turtle Skin, last summer after being measured last year at DSC and she loves hers as well, and she didn't even want a pair....thought they were ridiculously overpriced and funny looking (she was very happy with her trail runners). She wears them non-stop when we're at the ranch.

The first Russells I ordered were the Prickly Pear birdshooters and they had to be rebuilt and to be honest I'm still not real happy with them (they're just not as comfortable as my PHs). I talked to Patty the other day when I made my new order and she told me to send them back and they would fix them again! I also ordered a pair of Thula Thulas and just can't handle not having some sort of rubber sole...they're incredibly comfortable but I bruise my feet in the rocky country I hunt (not what they were designed for!) and Patty told me to put those in the same box as the Prickly Pears and they would add a sole to 'em. My point is this: in my experience Russell does make mistakes but if you're patient and diligent in addressing the problem with them, they will do whatever is necessary to make it right.

Believe me, I'm a very picky person and always expect the best and I just ordered my 8th pair of Russells. I hope you get as much enjoyment out of yours as I do mine!

Regards,
Scott

Edit: I've heard that some folks thought that since each boot is stamped on the inside with a model number and size that they assumed they were "off the shelf". I assure you this isn't the case, it's just the size of the last they use. During my conversation with Patty the other day I also learned that they have a "boot", "shoe", and "loafer" style last for each size. Turns out, most of my boots are made on the "loafer" last since I have a very, very low-volume foot. The boots that I've had re-built were originally made on the "boot" last but were too sloppy.
Just an FYI.

Scott, I'm assuming you went with the double vamp? How are they for waterproofness?

I figured the elephant that I gave them would probably be more porous and the comments from the Russell rep seemed to support that so I elected to go with the triple vamp. My only fear is that it's going to make them hot.

BTW folks, thanks for all of the feedback. This kind of thing is why I've come to respect the AR crowd as a whole over the years. Some of the other forums I read/post on... OMG. I appreciate you guys taking the time out to hit me with some knowledge.

A quick update. The more I thought about this the more I thought I might not like the color choice. The grey hide with brown canvas and brown soles just didn't feel right in my head, and even when I looked at it at the show I wasn't wowed. However, when I did the show this weekend the wife and I unfortunately had the toddler in tow, yes I was "that guy". As a result, I didn't take nearly as much time as I would've liked and ever since I've been wondering if the color choices I decided on were going to look halfway decent.

I just called Russell and talked to Patty to ask what color canvas they use on the Elephant PH when they make them in grey, and the answer was "black". So my plan right now is to switch the canvas from brown to black and change the sole from a brown air bob to a black air bob. The black soles are a stiffer compound, but I think it'll make the boot look a LOT better and Patty agreed. I know it's function over looks for something like this, but if they're ugly as sin, I'd be less inclined to wear them. There are other sole options too, so I'll contemplate that over the next couple of days while I wait for all of the Russel guys to make it back into the office post-show.

quote:

Originally posted by Kingfisher:
A quick update. The more I thought about this the more I thought I might not like the color choice. The grey hide with brown canvas and brown soles just didn't feel right in my head, and even when I looked at it at the show I wasn't wowed. However, when I did the show this weekend the wife and I unfortunately had the toddler in tow, yes I was "that guy". As a result, I didn't take nearly as much time as I would've liked and ever since I've been wondering if the color choices I decided on were going to look halfway decent.

I just called Russell and talked to Patty to ask what color canvas they use on the Elephant PH when they make them in grey, and the answer was "black". So my plan right now is to switch the canvas from brown to black and change the sole from a brown air bob to a black air bob. The black soles are a stiffer compound, but I think it'll make the boot look a LOT better and Patty agreed. I know it's function over looks for something like this, but if they're ugly as sin, I'd be less inclined to wear them. There are other sole options too, so I'll contemplate that over the next couple of days while I wait for all of the Russel guys to make it back into the office post-show.

If they can dye the elephant leather, get them in Brown with green canvas sides. That's what I have and they are really great looking (and great fitting) boots.

Greg

Kingfisher, why don't you tell us what you plan to use them for,ie. where you plan to hunt, etc.?

My PHs are single vamp with the dbl moccasin bottom. They're great in the heat! If you're concerned about using them in the TX summers then I'd suggest single or double vamp...not triple. As to waterproofness: well, it's leather and no matter how many layers IMO they're going to allow water to penetrate if you get wet enough. Single vamp isn't real waterproof, while triple is, however if you do manage to get your triple vamped boots wet it will take quite a long time for them to dry as opposed to the singles, which only take a short time (hour or less)....it's a trade off.

My advice: figure out the primary use and climate you plan to use them in and go from there. Give me more info and I'll make my recommendation .

Regards,
Scott

Kingfisher,

I have two pairs of Russells. My first pair does not have heel counters, and my second pair does. The ones without are far more comfortable, and the ones with heel counters had to be sent back for modification because the heel counters were cutting into my feet and causing severe blisters. They fixed that problem, but I wish I hadn't specified heel counters on the second pair. I thought I'd want them for more rocky terrain, but they haven't worked out. Just my own experience, but still a big fan of Russell boots.

Dale

A few years ago I had a pair of Mountain Safari "PH" boots made by Russell's. I added 1" or 2" to the height and a softer Vibram Air Bob sole for quieter walking - this sole is now a standard option on this boot apparently.

When I wore them first on a Mozambique safari in 2005, the Leopard dog hunter asked to buy them from me after the hunt. They are really a great pair of boots by any estimation.

I bought a pair of Russell PH boots and took them hunting in Idaho last year. The boots were so comfortable the first time I put them on and nothing has changed since then. I'll be buying some chukka boots and a pair of mountain boots @ SCI convention in Reno.

quote:

Originally posted by Vanderhoef:
Kingfisher, why don't you tell us what you plan to use them for,ie. where you plan to hunt, etc.?

My PHs are single vamp with the dbl moccasin bottom. They're great in the heat! If you're concerned about using them in the TX summers then I'd suggest single or double vamp...not triple. As to waterproofness: well, it's leather and no matter how many layers IMO they're going to allow water to penetrate if you get wet enough. Single vamp isn't real waterproof, while triple is, however if you do manage to get your triple vamped boots wet it will take quite a long time for them to dry as opposed to the singles, which only take a short time (hour or less)....it's a trade off.

My advice: figure out the primary use and climate you plan to use them in and go from there. Give me more info and I'll make my recommendation .

Regards,
Scott

Good call Scott. I'm in the "Hill Country" here as well. The boots will primarily used for whitetail hunting around here but will occasionally be used for other hunts elsewhere. I get around, but again most of it is around here. More often than not I do find myself in situations where things are wet. Either from a rain, or heavy dew, etc. but I'm not going to be duck hunting in them and standing around in ankle deep water and for the most part temps will be moderate. They'll also be used for dove hunting in the fall when it's still hot.

Another thing to add is that I don't get cold like most folks do. I don't need the boots to be warm necessarily. If I'm going to be in a situation where it's going to be really cold, I have other boots for that. These boots will be for hiking around in the hill country, whitetail hunting, and occasional casual wear.

Hope that helps. Appreciate your patience. I had presumed (hopefully correctly) that the elephant hide would have more of a pension for letting water in just due to the large hair folicles and such. I could be way off base there, but again the Russell rep seemed to indicate he didn't think they would be as waterproof as standard cowhide. That's the reason I went with the triple vs. double.

Greg, excellent suggestion on dying the color but the color of this hide is gorgeous and I wanted to keep it as is. I even think that navy canvas (if it was offerred) would look great.

Sounds like triple vamp is the way to go based on your intended purpose, then. I would add the poron slip sole and if you're concerned about prickly pear then you might consider adding the Turtle skin. Keep in mind though that the TS does make them stiffer and tougher to break in. As I said, my wife has a pair of the Mtn PHs with TS and she loves them, but she doesn't really pay a lot of attention to where she steps so she needs the extra protection.

One other thing: think about the sole and what you'll use it for. I have the Claw bob sole on my High Country Hunters and will have it changed the next time I send them back (I know the claw bob and air bob are different but they are pretty similar). I've found that when it's wet in the hill country the mud sticks like glue and the flatter, less aggressive sole like the Huez doesn't load up with a lot of mud. My HiCountry hunters are a real pain in wet weather around here and in fact I don't really wear them because they just fill with mud and are useless and heavy. Aggressive tread isn't that important around here IMO since you won't be doing much side-hilling or climbing, just walking on rocks. For my South 40 birdshooters that I just ordered I chose to go with the Newporter sole (no experience with it but I've had great results with the Huez and Patty thought the Newporter might be just the ticket).

One other thing: I chose to forgo the studs or speedlaces on my Joe's PHs and am glad I did. I just had them put in regular eyelets all the way to the top and I've knotted the end of my laces so they won't unlace when I pull them off. I now find that when I'm in a hurry I just slip on my PHs and don't even tie the laces and am out the door....they're like slippers now and in fact I probably haven't tied the silly things in six months or so . The real reason I did this though is I've broken speedlaces before (then you're screwed) and had the studs get bent or catch on something while in the rocks or heavy brush (only have studs where they'll be covered by pants as I wear my PHs with shorts in the summer).

I could go on and on about a stupid pair of boots but it sounds like you've got it figured out. Good luck and enjoy!!

Regards,
Scott

quote:

Originally posted by Vanderhoef:
Sounds like triple vamp is the way to go based on your intended purpose, then. I would add the poron slip sole and if you're concerned about prickly pear then you might consider adding the Turtle skin. Keep in mind though that the TS does make them stiffer and tougher to break in. As I said, my wife has a pair of the Mtn PHs with TS and she loves them, but she doesn't really pay a lot of attention to where she steps so she needs the extra protection.

One other thing: think about the sole and what you'll use it for. I have the Claw bob sole on my High Country Hunters and will have it changed the next time I send them back (I know the claw bob and air bob are different but they are pretty similar). I've found that when it's wet in the hill country the mud sticks like glue and the flatter, less aggressive sole like the Huez doesn't load up with a lot of mud. My HiCountry hunters are a real pain in wet weather around here and in fact I don't really wear them because they just fill with mud and are useless and heavy. Aggressive tread isn't that important around here IMO since you won't be doing much side-hilling or climbing, just walking on rocks. For my South 40 birdshooters that I just ordered I chose to go with the Newporter sole (no experience with it but I've had great results with the Huez and Patty thought the Newporter might be just the ticket).

One other thing: I chose to forgo the studs or speedlaces on my Joe's PHs and am glad I did. I just had them put in regular eyelets all the way to the top and I've knotted the end of my laces so they won't unlace when I pull them off. I now find that when I'm in a hurry I just slip on my PHs and don't even tie the laces and am out the door....they're like slippers now and in fact I probably haven't tied the silly things in six months or so . The real reason I did this though is I've broken speedlaces before (then you're screwed) and had the studs get bent or catch on something while in the rocks or heavy brush (only have studs where they'll be covered by pants as I wear my PHs with shorts in the summer).

Regards,
Scott

Awesome. Great info. I'll stick with the triple vamp. As for the TurtleSkin, I'm not worried about it. There are certainly lots of prickly pear where I hunt, but it's never been an issue for me, even when I've worn just tennis shoes. I guess I pay attention?

As for the soles, mud was the reason I went with the Airbob and here's why. The Goodyear soles on my old Brownings were much like the Claw Air Bob and they were HORRIBLE for packing mud. Before I went to the booth, I thought I was going to go with something like the Sierra soles, but the pictures on the website don't do them justice. The tread is way deeper than it looks. The standard Air Bob that I chose while not quite as agressive as what I was looking for, is about 1/2 as deep as the Sierra/Olympia. That's why I went with those. I'm crossing my fingers there. I've even given the Aspen soles some thought. As for the speedlaces, I think I'm going to still do them but I'll think long and hard about it between now and Thurs.

Regards,
Tom

I wear my Filsons hunting down south. A season or two can tear them up easy, or at least make them look torn to pieces, as we have rock and thorns that have never been used.

I have two sets of the Russells including a set of boots and the Joes PH. My take on it is if you are used to a higher volume boot then you may intially feel a bit cramped, moreso in the boot as opossed the PH. I was wearing Vasque hikers before PH's and it felt completely different. The Vasque have a less flexible sole for rocks etc and are heavier. I wanted the Joes with a flexible sole. I ordered mine with the Vibram Air Bob, the padded collar, heel counters, strap, lining, speed laces, studs, etc and they work well and are lighter. Although the crepe and gum type soles are even lighter, I opted for a bit more thorn and puncture resistance with the Air Bob. And a feature I like on both is the full gussett tongue to keep "stuff" mostly out of the boot.

My foot had changed some in between the ordering of the boots and the Ph's. Russell checked the first boot measurements and the new PH ones and listened to what I had to say and asked me to send in the boots and re-worked (maybe re-lasted) them and sent them back at no charge. Good effort by Russell.

Finalized the order on the boots just a few moments ago. Joe's PH w/ my grey elephant hide. Black canvas. Black air bob. Speed laces for the first 5 or 6 and then eyelets up top. Triple vamp + poron inserts.

Now we wait... 4 months apparently lol.

I purchased a pair of Russell's at SCI a few years ago. In Zim, after wearing them only a few times previously, I walked right out of them. They literally fell apart. Fortunately there was a hand stitcher in camp and I was able to repair them sufficiently to continue the hunt. I sent them back to Russell and received no response. Even after phone calls, DILLIGAS. ( Does it look like I give a shit?) They didn't fit especially well, either.
Brice

Understood Brice. I think I had read one of your previous posts when I was doing a little research on the boots. Seems like Russell's are a love/hate boot. 95% love and 5% hate, and for the folks that don't like them... it's definitive. However, if mine totally come apart (I don't expect they will) I'll be pretty hot as well.

I have two pair of the PH's - bought about two years apart. The only thing I changed is I added the loop at the back on the second pair - it really makes pulling them on a breeze. They've been to Africa several times and different places here in the states, as well as just getting worn around alot and I love them. There was no break-in period - they felt great immediately. In Botswana (the Delta) I would walk through water off and on during the day, switch out and let one dry while I wore the other. You would never know it by looking at them or wearing them. I really like them alot. Good Luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:
Good luck. My wife was fitted at SCI in 2010 at the Russell booth. She still does not have a pair that fits. They were not even close the first or second time. We brought them to Dallas (2011) and she was measured again by Russell. We left the boots with them. I hope they fit this time since we paid for them one year ago.

This will be the last pair of boots we ever order from Russell.

As a follow up to the above post:

We were assured the boots would be shipped by March 1st. When they did not arrive by March 5th we called. They have not been touched and Russell does not know when they will ship.

Love that great Russell service everybody talks about. We will make two safaris without my wife's boots even though they were ordered 14 months ago.

I've posted this story before so won't go into a lot of detail--short version, I bought my son and myself Russell PH's for our DG safari to Zim in 2002. Four days into a ten-day hunt my son's boots fell apart--the crepe soles (recommended for that area) completely detached from the boots--both of them. They were glued on, not stitched.

I wasn't walking as much as my son so my soles didn't come apart until about seven days into the hunt.

We both finished the safari in running shoes.

I sent both pairs back to Russell and their solution was to put Vibram soles on them.

We still wear them but if I went back to Africa I would replace them with a more reliable boot.

BTW, Russell never said so much as "sorry"--in fact, they were a little aloof when I explained what had happened.

3 attempts to correct and still hurts to wear them. Local boot maker won't touch them because they need new leather to replace the bad parts....too bad I'm out of the personal buffalo hide given to Russell to make this pair. Russell......NEVER AGAIN !!!!

For me Russells were the most uncomfortable boots I have ever worn. I had one pair and they were so bad I was convinced it must be a fluke because so many people hold them in such high regard. The following year at DSC I had different style custom made and they were just as bad as my first pair. I do not dispute anyone else's experience with Russells, but mine was horrible. I actually threw both pairs away as I did not feel comfortable trying to sell them to anyone.

I had ordered Thula Thulas a few years back at the SCI Convention and had them measure me. When they arrived four or five months later and just before a trip to Zimbabwe, they did not fit. I sent them back and they eventually re-made them. They now "fit", but not as well as I think they should. And it took an additional year of time before I got the second ones back again. On the other hand, I also have a pair of ele/croc dark brown loafers that I bought at the SCI show right from their display area on the last day of the show in 2010 and they fit, are beautiful, and I love them (although quite expensive). So, yes it is a love/hate relationship. Maybe the key to resolving a majority of their issues is to FIRE the poor souls that are doing the measurements (I know, I know, Ralph the owner is one of them!) and hire some individuals that are competent at accurately measuring feet. That would, at least, resolve over half of the issues.

I have had various pairs of Russells over the years, like others, had problems with custom sizing. I tried their standard 10 1/2 D's, my normal off the rack size, and all was well. The only justification for the price, to me at least, is that I have had them put different soles on my Joe's PHs, always quick, easy, and not very costly, a cheap way to experiment. As of now I have the thin, flat soles and like them a lot. Vibram newporter? These are specialized boots, not do anything, go anywhere. My vote for that category goes to the Corcoran jump boots, same as I wore in military more than 45 years ago, still made in USA and available in several styles, about 1/3 the price of Russells.

After reading this thread I was a little concerned about the short PHs I was fitted for at the DSC show in January. They arrived yesterday and fit extremely well - like an old pair of well worn upland shooting boots. I wore then for a mile or so while walking the dogs last night and they feel like no breaking in required.

So .. my experience, limited to a statistical population of one, is very good with what appears to be a quality made, well-fitting, comfortable product that was delivered rapidly.