I didn't see much in an archive search. How many of you have hunted lioness and where is it done these days? Just curious as I will never be able to afford a male lion. I would think there are some relatively affordable lioness permits available. Would the daily rate and length be less than other lion hunts? For what it's worth, my interests run outside of fenced operations and RSA in particular.

I think a lioness tracked properly would be quite exciting. It would also make a beautiful trophy.

Yukon, I don't know right off hand where these hunts are being done today, but I'm interested as well! I was offered a Lioness permit a few years ago, and much to my regret, I turned it down. Then it seemed to me to be, somehow, less than a Lion. That was then, and this is now, because I've learned that hunting lioness on the track is far more dangerous than hunting a male lion the same way.

The deal is, the females stick together, and when pushed, or shot at close range, you stand a great chance of recieving a multiple charge of her peers! The females are very protective of the pride, both other females, and their cubs, and young males. The large males, however if running with a pride, or a single female will most often peel off, and split from the females, and let the females deal with the tracker.

On bait, it is a little safer, unless you wound, then you have a problem either way, but if it is a female, the other females will most often stay with the wounded female,at least for a while, and the follow-up problem is compounded.

It is a mistake to fU FU a female as somehow less deserving of a place in a trophy room, because, IMO, they are more sporting to hunt on foot, than the males!

Exactly Mac and the very reason I'm interested. I want to continue hunting DG as I can and in the way that I prefer...tracking on foot.

I also preferred hunting tuskless vs. bulls as we had little trouble getting close to bulls but the cow herds were another matter. The trophy is in the experience not the inches. The cool part is that lower cost and higher thrills seem to go together...don't repeat that!

As I understand it female permits are not given every year at least in Zim. I have a standing order with my PH in Zim to contact me as soon as he would have one available and I also agree with the PAC elephant the thrill is in the hunt.

Well, my hunt was tuskless not PAC but that would be interesting to try one day. I think I would still prefer the tuskless as shooting one out of a village or irrigation system is not my first preference. Lots of night shooting for PAC too, eh?

It's starting to sound like a number of us find the lioness interesting. The problem (as I see it) is that it could be as popular as the tuskless hunt but with far less permits offered.

Maybe a booking agent or PH will chime in before long.

I have shot 3 lionesses, all in Zimbabwe.

On all occasions, I was on a full 21 day hunt for everything.

The first onehappened in Matetsi, as we were driving along in the morning when we came across a herd of buffalo that seemed to be in an advanced state of agitation. We then saw the lion tracks.

We drove on, and left them. With the intention of coming back later in the morning and follow them. Just in case we get a chance at a lion.

When we returned, and followed the tracks, about fifteen minutes later we caught up with them. They were all having a rest under some trees with quite a bit of grass around them. Luckily the grass was not very long.

As we surprised them, they all took off, except one male which did not know what was going on.

He just sat on his hind legs, and looked at his departing friends. He was about 30-40 yards away. I had a 416 Rigby Improved, and put a 400 grain Bear Claw bullet into his neck. He dropped where he sat.

At teh shot, one of the departing lionesses came charging towards us. Both Roy and myself had her covered, with him saying "don't shoot! Don't shoot!"

She stopped short, and then walked to her fallen friend and stood besides him. Roy suggested I shoto her if I wanted, as he had a license for one. I put a bullet into her, and she dropped a couple of yards from her friend.

The second one was in Chete.

We were driving back to camp late one morning, when we saw this enormous lioness with half a warthog in her mouth.

We got off the truck and tried to get a shot at her, but, she just dropped the half eaten warty and ran off.

Roy suggested we go have our lunch, then come back and follow her. We might be able to catch her having her mid day siesta.

We hada quick lunch, and came back and follow her. We found her 2 hours later, sleeping under a lone boabab tree.

We got to about 30 yards from her, and all we could see was her rear end and tail. The rest of the body was hidden behind a fallen log.

There was quite a brisk wind coming from her direction, so there was no worry about her noticing our position.

We had a choice of waiting until she woke up, or we could wake her up ourselves.

We decided on the latter.

Roy threw a stone, and as that stone hit the ground, the lioness was up in a flash! Looking straight to where the stone had landed.

I had the 375/404 loaded with Barnes X 300 grain bullets.

I put one behind her shoulders. She started growling and running around herself. So I kept shooting, firing two more into her. Hitting her at both ends. She dropped.

The third one was in Matetsi again.

We had lions feed on one of our baits, but never managed to catch them.

One morning we found a lioness on the bait. We hat s ort of lean to at the top of a dry river bed. Not much a hide I am afraid but it did serve it purpose.

This lioness sensed our position, and came to investigate. She lay in the grass not far from us for quite a while, just raising her head - with ears flattened down.

Eventually she decided she did not like whatever was behind that grass wall, and took off on a quick walk an angle to our right.

I she was about a100 yards way whwn I put a 300 grain Barnes X behind her shoulder. She started growling and turning about herself. Another shot put her down.

On another occasion, we had a lioness come up a hill towards us - without us knowing anything about her, until her head came into our view 7 yards away.

She must have been as shocked as we were, as she did a 180 and took off at full speed.

Saeed, you have more stories than any dozen of us put together. Any photos of them? That first hunt is kind of funny with them laying together. You don't see a photo of that everyday.

Or just leave those lioness alone.

Will is just grumpy because he paid too much for his lion hunt and taxidermy. Every time he looks at it he thinks...I could have hunted 2-3 more elephant!

I am sure some will hammer me for this but here goes anyway. I needed a lion or lioness to complete my big 6, so in Jan.'05 I booked a lioness hunt with Andy Hunter for July '06. (As stated above by others I didn't want to pay what a lion cost). In Nov. '05 Andy advises me that Zim has delisted all lioness for the country, so there goes the hunt. I sure couldn't afford Tanzania so I started checking with some outfitters in RSA and Namibia for a fair chase lioness. All honest responses were "it's real iffy" because you have to catch one coming out of one of the Parks onto the ranch your hunting. I passed on those because I didn't want to risk not even seeing one which they readily admitted could happen for weeks at a time. Now what ? Jan. '07 I talk to Tam Safari's at the DSC show and he assures me his lioness have been out on their own for two years on a very large ranch. He, as well as two other PH's have all told me the same thing. Captive bred lion/lioness's are much more dangerous than wild lion, as they have lost their fear of humans and are much more prone to charge, wounded or not. I book the Tam hunt (not because I want to hunt that way, just it's the only way I will ever get one). About March Tam notifies me of the impending law change in RSA to take effect June 1 about captive bred lion. Now feeling like I will never complete my Big 6. By a stroke of luck I find out that Mel Kleinhans (brother of J.P. and Adolph) has a few lioness and lion on their family ranch about an hour north of Capetown. (I'am already booked at the time for Buff/Croc with J.P. in Moz next year). I contact J.P. about the lioness, book the hunt for early May, and sucessfully take the lioness after a two day hunt. The grass was high, the bush was thick and she was not easy to find. We saw two males while hunting and one was very aggressive but that's another story. Now the purpose for my deciding to make this post: The father of the Kleinhans brothers (who some hear may remember) was killed by lions on their ranch twelve years ago. Older brother Adolph has been mauled twice on the ranch, once nearly dying. Ironically, I took the lioness about ten yards from Mr. Kleinhans grave, which they said was the closest one had ever been taken to it. I know there have been abuses and their have been much debate about canned hunting etc. My point and my belief is, that if done properly (hunt on foot, large enough property etc) the type hunt I just did is completely ethical and justifiable. The lion on this ranch were more dangerous and made me more nervous than any of the dozen or so I had seen on two trips to the Zambezi Valley. The intial post here was about where to hunt a lioness at a reasonable price, which is why I decided to share my experience. I understand RSA has postponed the new law till Feb. '08, so you still have a little time in RSA. After that lion/lioness prices are going thru the roof (more so than already) and the countries to hunt them will be very limited. Well, I'am content with the hunt I had and I think I'am as ethical as anyone else. My two cents worth.

I appreciate your post because I can sympathize with your problem. How does one go about taking a wild lion or lioness without spending huge dollars? Lion hunting has become ridiculously expensive...far more than almost any African game except perhaps Lord Derby, bongo and a few other specialized African game. I may have started this too late to achieve it.

Usually the booking agents jump right into these threads but their absence may be an answer in itself.

I got an interesting email addressing part of the problem. A lioness hunt will take you into many of the females with cubs and that is a real ethical problem. The odds of sorting out the old female among the others is probably not good. I can see where that could be more troublesome than tuskless ele.

Still, I'm interested in hearing whatever thoughts you might have on the subject. Ethical and reasonable lion hunting for the average guy is probably dead and gone.

Yukon, I'll see what I can find for you and the details if available. LDK

quote:

Lion hunting has become ridiculously expensive...

Why ridiculous? Its still way cheaper than Marco Polo sheep! And a typical African wild lion hunt includes a whole list of other game at trophy fees alone whereas with some of the sheep you take just 1 animal and go home.
Which would you rather experience?

There are reasons why some animals cost more to hunt than others. A true wild lion is amongst the most sought after African specie by hunters. Together with ele, the pinnacle of African big game! That makes the price go up. And the way much of the industry is behaving when it comes to shooting immature lion, the future will bring ever higher prices IMO. In comparison, a "canned" lion is much, much more expensive considering it is a less desirable animal.

This March, not hunting, but semi-sightseeing, in RSA, I ate in a motel-like place with a thousand acres or so around it. Eight to ten lions were penned around the dining area and it would make your spine straighten when a big cat roared while you were trying to eat your hamburger.

Without any seriousness, I asked the host what it would cost to hunt one of the lions. I was quoted some huge amount for a male and $2000 for a female.

I guess I should have asked how it would be accomplished (Could I shoot from the front porch, inbetween the BMW's and Mercedes?), but I just continued to eat my cereal and shook my head, "no".

I do think a solid would have been in order, though... just in case I had to penetrate some wire or a fence post or a car tire or something????

I know there are pretty-real lion hunts in RSA, but this would have been anything but. However, if anyone wants to kill a lioness in any manner he so chooses, that's his bit... just don't tell me it's rain when you're pissing on my leg. So, find yourself a real, exciting lioness hunt and have at it... and have a great time. I'd love to hear about it and will trust you to keep your pants zipped!

I understand the points being offered here. Having just returned from a tuskless hunt, I thought it would make sense to try to find a lioness hunt...cheaper, more intense just like the tuskless. In other words, perfect for my budget and preferred style.

Yukon:

If the "waitress" had said... "We have 45,000 hectares hard against the park, with no fence on the border and a lioness killed my lab last night. Wanna go for $2k and kill the bitch?".... I think I'd not have finished my orange juice hatting up and heading out.

I hope you find something you'll be comfortable with. It's your bucks.

I strongly suggest you check on Burkina Faso, though. Maybe not the biggest manes, but fully mature lions are taken by tracking... and there are no fences in the country... except a couple of mud ones in the capital.

Who is booking and operating in Burkina Faso? Did you have anyone specific in mind?

There have been lots of threads on it in the past. John LaSala used to book hunts. www.africanhuntingadventures.com

quote:

Originally posted by yukon delta:
Well, my hunt was tuskless not PAC but that would be interesting to try one day. I think I would still prefer the tuskless as shooting one out of a village or irrigation system is not my first preference. Lots of night shooting for PAC too, eh?

It's starting to sound like a number of us find the lioness interesting. The problem (as I see it) is that it could be as popular as the tuskless hunt but with far less permits offered.

Maybe a booking agent or PH will chime in before long.

No. Most all PAC shooting is typical tracking of elephants in the daytime, then approaching and making the shot.

There is some night time PAC hunting but my understanding is that it is limited to areas adjacent to parks where the elephants come out of the parks only at night.

While there is a park adjacent to Omay, Omay is large and has "resident" elephants that stay in Omay. Of the two PAC bulls that I hunted there, one was taken by the typical tracking from raided fields. The other was found on a walk in an area locals had sen elephants the previous day. We found a steaming dump and were tracking from there when cracking branches gave away his location.

JPK

Thanks for the link. Some interesting options on there but the lion hunt is still 30k. I'll keep looking around but several avid hunters I know got their lion a few years ago because they knew it was climbing up out of their budget. It's even worse now. I have to save and scratch for most of my hunting already so I doubt a lion is in my future.

Aziz posted a very detailed report on his Burkina Faso hunt.

I have seriously considered a tracking hunt for lion in Burkina Faso. So many hunts, so little time and money...

That's an interesting report. That hunter really gets around and does some very cool hunts. What a shame about the lion getting into the park though.

Remember when you look at those hunts to convert the Euros...ouch.

yukon, I give the contacts for Toufic Hanna in Burkina Faso in this thread:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=537100494#537100494

You can contact him directly and lion hunting is definitely cheaper in Burkina.

Here is some information I had from a previous exchange with an AR member talking about 2005 prices with Toufic:

I happened to be speaking with Jean Bernard DeRunz today. He saw your post about Burkina Faso, and since he has been there suggested you consider the PH he hunted with: Toufic. Toufic won't be at Rambouillet this year as he just underwent surgery and was told to take it easy for awhile. Anyway, his e-mail is toufic@fasonet.bf and his telephone numbers are: in France (33) 6 23 31 64 39 and in Burkina Faso (226) 40 770 145 or (226) 70 207 101. The latter is probably a cell phone. He most likely doesn't speak English but he is married to a Ghanian woman who does. It takes most Lebanese about a week to learn to speak English so on a ten day hunt the last three days ought to be fine. His outfit is called Namoungou Safaris and his camp is called Campement Yentangou. I haven't tried to google either yet.

Toufic is one of those Syrians (which the locals call Lebanese) who emigrated to West Africa, probably to escape persecution if he is a Christian, like alot of the "Lebanese" in West Africa. To hunt Roan and/or Buffalo requires a ten day license (9 hunting days), lion requires a 14 day license (12 hunting days). At 2005 prices the ten day package (9 hunting days) costs 5350 Euros for 2 on 1. For a single hunter add 100 Euros per hunting day. The fourteen day license costs 6850 Euros 2 on 1. Same supplement for a single hunter. The big game license is an additional one time fee of 235 Euros.

His animal tax list is sort of complicated because in Burkina Faso the trophy prep and export certificate isn't included. Adding up the seperate elements I come up with the following totals: Roan approx. 626 Euros, buffalo approx. 596 Euros, Defassa Waterbuck approx. 506 Euros, Harnessed bushbuck approx. 500 Euros. If you decide to go for a lion add 1500 euros to the 14 day hunt flat fee and 1636 Euros of animal tax if successful. A lion is a lion and a buffalo is a buffalo even if they aren't shot in Tanzania. A ten day hunt taking one buffalo and one Roan would cost approx 6807 Euros, or 8,168 USD at 2 on 1 prices.

I am talking about a male lion here, not a female.

Thanks for the info and new option. Good to know and something to think about.

The chances of getting a lion in BF are very low indeed. And they are largely maneless.

We can arrange a marauding lion hunt in Namibia, up against Etosha park. You could get into an immature male, a female, or a maned male. Trophy fee ranges accordingly, from $7500 to $15000. This is not a sure thing, but on a two week hunt you have an even chance of an encounter.

We can do the same for you in Botswana but the odds are a bit lower and the price quite a bit higher.