The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Zimbabwe Leopard hunt with Hounds?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Zimbabwe Leopard hunt with Hounds? | Login/Join |
| Administrator |
Here is a story of a leopard hunt on bait. I got this directly from Joshka himself. He was a friend and visited us in Dubai often. Joshka used to hunt the same concession we hunt now with Alan Vincent. Him and his client went to put up a new bait. Suddenly, they see leopard walking right next to them right in the clear. The client takes a shot, and leopard takes off. Joshka left the client behind, and went to look for the leopard. They found a bit of blood, and before long, the leopard jumps out of a clump of rocks and and almost scalps Joshka, and runs off again. Both Joshka and the the leopard survived this episode. He went back to camp to put his scalp back, tie a bandage over it, takes a shotgun, and goes after the leopard again. They thought they would start where they left off. Apparently did the leopard, as he just laid right where he was found earlier. He jumps up again and has another go at Joshka, he manages to fight it off and kill it. I have personally see leopards close to the bait. But never got a chance at a shot. Last year we saw a very old leopard lying in the bush as we drove back to camp. I shot it as it jumped up to run off. I was thinking of what happened to Joshka when I was aiming at that leopard lying in the bush, with only his head showing. I did not want a repeat of it. | |||
|
One of Us |
Where I hunted in the central Kalahari I was told from the get go that there were no large trees or rocks for a cat to bay up in. They bayed up in blackthorn thickets and when humans approached, they would almost always charge. That’s why we hunted with SSG and shotguns. The hunt prior to mine, the cat dashed right in between the hunter and PH, giving neither a shot. It then jumped into the back of the truck and mauled a dog handler. I prefer to hunt, not play chess but to each his own.... Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
|
| one of us |
OK then, let's all waddle over to the blind, sit on a chair, put the rifle on a tripod pointed in the general direction of the bait, and wait for the leopard to show up. When he does, on goes the light and bang the leopard is on the wall. The fact that the leopard does not cooperate every time does not make this a chase. It's just a game of chance. And there is nothing fair about it, you are in a little fort and the cat is unaware of the ambush. Hunting with dogs involves finding a fresh track, following said track for long distances, and then finally letting the dogs out and facing down the leopard at close range when he is mad as, well, a cat .. and when you make eye contact many times he will come for you. This sounds a lot like a chase to me, and the outcome is fair in the sense that it's you or the cat whose blood will soak the sand .. about as fair as it gets in modern hunting. (My comment about shooting from a truck had nothing to do with leopards specifically, but everything to do with PHs who hold their noses over hunting with hounds but not when shooting from the truck.) p.s. Hunting cats, pigs and other big game with hounds is a sporting tradition in many countries. Using bait is illegal in most countries. Enough said. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
|
| One of Us |
Russ, I agree. Brian IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thank You Todd! | |||
|
| One of Us |
Don't these Kalahari Leopard hunts mostly foresee the Bushmen scurrying after the tracks over the desert scrub-land while the hunters follow a short distance behind in and open vehicle with shotguns loaded with SSG. Doesn't the shooting start (from the vehicle) when the Leopard is eventually flushed? Just asking  If hunting with dogs is considered so sporting and ethical as in fair chase, why isn't it embraced for any and all hunting? We know dogs are are almost a necessity for wing hunting, some being used solely for retrieving while others (due to the nature of the bird) are for pointing. In some African countries locals use packs of mongrels to hunt down game with an almost 100% chance of success - fair chase? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Russ, 9/10 the cat will be in a tree with up to 10+ dogs baying below. In other cases the cat could holed up in the rocks (depending on the terrain) with its back covered and in either circumstance is blocked from further retreat. P.S. The cat will find itself in this predicament only because it is unable to outrun the pack of hounds. Sounds a bit like those Arab folk who chased a Wildebeest or whatever with a vehicle until it could run no more. Again, 9/10 chances are that those closest to the quarry, dogs or the handler will take a hit from the cat. Have not heard of many if any, clients or PHs being mauled during such hunts though though the odd PH may have received a scratch or two through negligence. 9/10 also has it that there is a wait for the hunters to arrive at the scene before a shot is taken at the cat. 9/10 also has it that hunting with dogs is illegal in most African countries.  | |||
|
One of Us |
Russ, I hear you and sometimes this is the case and there is nothing worse than those who post photographs of a Leopard feeding and start fishing for a client. Like I said nothing wrong with hounds and I have good memories of them calling at night along the banks of the Mississippi and meeting some very fine folk of whom it was their tradition. On a lighter note I remember a PH in the Luangwa who bought a couple of village dogs to help follow up a wounded cat. That night another Leopard came into camp broke into his chalet and killed them. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
|
| one of us |
Although I've never been on a leopard hunt with hounds the idea does not appeal to me.In my mind dogs are for foxes, hares and birds.I really like the leopard over bait method.A real challenge would be hunting a leopard with open sights just like Corbet did. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wound your Leopard and you will be granted your wishes, ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
|
One of Us |
WOW. Sounds so easy. Except for the fact that it isn't!! | |||
|
| Administrator |
Yes it is. Except for the light part  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Russ seems to have a fixation about the light yet no one has mentioned any. If his clients shot their cat with a light did they go back to him and complain or demand a refund? While the TZ hunting regulations clearly state that hunting with the use of artificial light is prohibited, it also goes on to state that it is not permitted to hunt any game before sunrise/after sunset. An unwritten exception (blind eye) is extended when hunting for Leopard but clearly not to be abused so sitting in a blind in the middle of the night is unacceptable even to the Authorities. Hence the classic sitting in the blind at dusk and dawn where the aficionados for extraordinary light-finding optics with illuminated reticles stand a better chance on the target during those extended twilight hours. BTW (though very uncommon) we have also shot quite a few Leopard during a daylight bait-check after noticing our arrival had disturbed its feeding session; promptly erected and sat in a makeshift blind and whacked it 15 mins. later. Last but not least, if the PH knows his cats he can pretty much reprogram its feeding timetable. | |||
|
One of Us |
Anyone who thinks that hound hunting is just strolling up to the cat and shooting is missing the point. I can think of no greater sporting tradition than hunting with dogs. Man has been working with our K9 counterparts since the dawn of time. It has taken the houndsman who owns the pack many years and miles to train his hounds. Those hounds were selectively bred over hundreds of years for trailing, treeing and baying their quarry. They have also been selected for just the right balance of grit and sense to stop a cat without getting themselves killed. Top hounds are few and far between, trust me on that as I've owned hundreds and hunted with thousands over the years. What you are really paying for on a hound hunt is the privilege of watching the culmination of years of breeding, training and experience come together as a purpose bred hunting athlete does what it has been born to do to and produce results. All that said, if you aren't a dog person to start with, it's probably not for you. I'm still puzzling over how hanging bait and sitting in a blind constitutes outsmarting a leopard. The leopard is responding to food and is not knowingly playing a high stakes game of wits with you. I'm not knocking the validity of the method, just the language of the description. All We Know Is All We Are | |||
|
| One of Us |
The outsmarting is getting a big Leopard on bait and to feed when you are sitting. One slight mistake in the set up and you might be spending another 14 days looking. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
|
| one of us |
Bait Hunting a truly wild, and smart leopard and taking him at the end of a 14 day hunt has to be be at the top of great hunting experiences.What is the point of going hunting if one does not see this? | |||
|
| One of Us |
TREE'EM: As you know, Leopards are far from dumb and probably the smartest of the cat family. They are well aware that the ass-end of a Zebra or carcass of a Warthog don't simply grow on trees. Try as you might, human scent will be all over that tree and immediate vicinity and renewed afresh each time you visit the bait. The approaching vehicle and the humanity that it disgorges and possibly replenishes the almost devoured offering, often with a different delicacy, will not escape its watchful eyes as it will be laying up not too far away. Bottom line is that he knows you own that morsel and in episodes such as these, he is nothing more than a thief. The myth of not taking a piss or smoking a cigarette anywhere near the bait is just that, a myth and I have often proved it by pissing on and stubbing out a cigarette on the tree trunk. He doesn't give a damn. All that you have to be wary of is the wind and ensuring he has not discovered your blind which should be set up on D-Day. Its not as easy as some make it out to be and if you end up with a wounded cat to deal with, that's when the fun begins; no dogs to find it for you. To each his own. | |||
|
one of us |
Sorry ,im not african ,but i hunted pumas bob cats boars peccry and even buffalo with dogs ,mostly dogos argentinos ,labs and pointers pack .I still do it but as Saeed statedwe are getting old so i passed this to my son and younger guides. Besides that i have bee friend of fanatic dogueros like the late Theunis Botha ,Gavin Lipges and another famous houndsmen and i pursued injured and problem cats in Africa with local PHs and fan of the dogos.The most important this is to have a good tracker and put the dogs on the tracks of a big male .This must be signed BEFORE the hunt.THIS dont assure you to kill a male but an effort will be done.With Bobby Moore and old AR member we treed a big puma but before he could shoot it jumped to a nearby river and all my dogs jumped in the current too ,being scared of loosing them i jumped in the current ....just to see that my dogs easily swim against it ....to make the history short i was cold and the puma scaped ... www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
|
| one of us |
Anyone else remember that old story in Outdoor Life or Field and Stream about a guy wanting to shoot a black jaguar? Eventually one showed up near a village so word was sent to him and that he should also bring a pack of cougar hounds for the hunt. So he bought a pack of Idaho cougar hounds and told of the huge amount of paper work to take the hounds into that South American country. He got it all together and eventually showed up with his pack. Some guy looked at him and said that he knew that Americans were rich but why did they have to bring the bait with them. The jaguar was living off of village dogs. Aside from all that … I personally do not think that they should use hounds to hunt leopards. I have heard it said that is the only way to get one of those old wise leopards in Namibia. If that is the case - good for the leopard. | |||
|
| one of us |
I would wager that more than half the leopards shot from a blind are shot after dark with a light. This after using a trail cam to id the leopard ahead of time. Heck, some PHs even use listening devices so they know when to turn on the light. And even then, too many are wounded ... from what is effectively a bench rest with a scope at less than 100 yards. And then the client is usually not even involved in the follow-up. I say you wounded it, you go after it. Now, not in the morning. The more I think about it the less I think of it. Most everyone would agree (and most game depts certainly do) that shooting over a light is not sporting. Why is leopard hunting an exception? Not illegal to hunt cats with dogs in Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, or (certainly parts of) South Africa. It may be illegal in the other 20% of Africa (by hunter numbers). Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
|
| One of Us |
Here, in the Southern State of Australia, Victoria, we have a long, strong and proud tradition of coursing deer with hounds. A popular pursuit enjoyed by men, women and children, families, friends and others. Well regulated, and by the most part, run by a number of serious hounds-men who spend a lot of time and money carrying for their dogs and running proper, ethical hunts. As in all forms of hunting, hound hunting can be operated in a non-ethical manner, no doubt, and so can any other form of hunting. You guys who are comparing non-ethical forms of hound hunting are doing no different than the un-educated comparing poaching with hunting. A hound hunt does not guarantee success as many uninformed seemed to think and link with the ethics of the hunt. | |||
|
| One of Us |
It IS illegal to hunt leopard with dogs in Namibia and Botswana. Spot lights, trail cameras, illuminated reticle scopes,laser range finders, and other electronic“fair chase aids” are legal, though.  Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
|
| One of Us |
We've got guys saying leopard over bait is not fair chase / unethical, leopard with hounds is not fair chase / unethical, and tracking them with bushmen in the manner they do in Namibia is not fair chase / unethical. Those are the three methods I'm aware of that produce a reasonable chance of success. Yes, a few are shot during a chance encounter, but not many. Certainly not a reliable method and for sure a method that more often than not doesn't allow for close observation of the cat to determine if it is the correct one. Back to the bait method, I'll agree the shot itself is often not challenging (wound the cat and all bets are off), but the shot isn't the challenging part of that type of leopard hunt. It's the chess game of getting him in the tree while you are in the blind in the first place. Anyone who thinks the actual shot is how the hunt is defined causes me again to wonder how much leopard over bait hunting one has done personally. Some of the commentary on this thread sounds more like a discussion one would expect to see on a "Lion Aid" or HSUS Facebook page. Everyone should double check their password immediately. I'm pretty sure Joluburn or Hizzie have posted under some of our regular member's names. | |||
|
| one of us |
If the client knows he will be involved in the follow up, should things go wrong, it will be a difficult shot.If he plans to stay in the truck then he will think and tell others it is an easy shot.Same goes for the PH. | |||
|
One of Us |
Done both a few times. Hound hunting is a winner for me because I love dogs and see them work is magnificent. Failed one hounds hunt for Mr Spots because I kept obbsesed with a very big cat that kept outsmarting the dogs. His tricks where incredible. Apparently the leopards do this to get hyenas of their tracks. 14 days after we nearly closed the deal but when tracks where getting ultra fresh he joined a female and started mating. Had to call it quits. Next year a good friend of mine got him after 9 days of playing hide and seek. He was an oooooold Monster. That said I have shoots cats from blind and with dogs and if I only could do one more again it would be with hounds. The fresh morning breeze, the lead dog getting the scent, the chase the following at full speed, the waiting ti see if the dog can find again the scent, the heart pumping.... Warric Evans hounds are superb diego | |||
|
| one of us |
Did it twice in Botswana, wasn't illegal then. Namibia wasn't there a big brouhaha when Boddington's daughter shot the hound handler on a leopard hunt? I would venture to say that some PH's prefer to have the client come back next year, that way they can sell the leopard 3x. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
|
| one of us |
One of the big controversies about hound hunting not mentioned so far is that there were a lot of rumors about operators in Namibia box trapping leopards, then releasing them. Supposedly that had to do a lot with making hound hunting illegal there. As for sitting in a blind, I find it really interesting; the sounds, etc. | |||
|
| One of Us |
George, In most cases the PH will go it alone with one, maybe two of his best trackers. The follow-up on a wounded Leopard is not what one would call fun, cannot compare with any of the other DG species and should the shit hit the fan, the PH cannot afford to have his client ending up looking as though he were put through a shredder. | |||
|
One of Us |
I have enjoyed the different responses for both bait and hounds. Arguments for and against. In my opinion QUOTAS are critical for any area. If the quota allocated is sustainable then I believe this should be able to accomadate bow/rifle/hound/spear hunt. Why restrict ourselves. One will always get into a discussion of what is ethical ,right or wrong. This will go around in circles. But what is key is adding value to the species, stopping human encroachment and enhancing the sustainability of these beautiful creatures and their habitat. | |||
|
| one of us |
EXACTLY. Why I always thought writers and those on AR who said RSA captive bred lions took the pressure off wild lions was a stupid thing to say, as it means quotas are (were) unsustainable. | |||
|
One of Us |
There is a reason you see PHs don heavy coveralls to follow up a wounded leopard on the shows and it ain’t the cold. I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills. Marcus Cady DRSS | |||
|
| one of us |
Guys, One thing I have not seen mentioned was the fact that quite a few PH's I have spoke to think having dogs tearing about a property just disturbs the whole environment. Additional to that their opinion is that the leopards become near impossible to hunt with bait as they become so wary. I'm not against hunting any cat with dogs but I think there are some things to consider before booking a dog hunt. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
|
| one of us |
So how about sitting at a waterhole then, for any species not particularly leopard ... OK with a rifle? It's done all the time with a bow. Add a bale or two of lucerne? That's done too. No? Why not. It's just a blind with some bait. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
|
| One of Us |
Having hunted mountain lion with hounds I can attest to the excitement. A good friend of mine is a houndsman and nothing is more exciting and personally rewarding to him than working his dogs. I certainly believe the hunt to be fair chase especially after tearing over hill and dale following the hounds. Tim | |||
|
| One of Us |
Except that a water hole is there every day and has been for a long period, assuming it hasn't dried up from seasonal drought. There is no skill involved in getting animals who know the locations of water holes to come to them. Russ, I understand you are an agent? If so, surely you know that simply hanging a piece of meat in a tree is a LONG WAY from getting ANY cat into that tree, and certainly no guarantee of getting a mature male leopard to feed on it, not to mention at a time of your choosing without being spooked by the construction of a blind or your presence in it. The difference in your water hole example and a leopard blind are stark. | |||
|
| one of us |
I know a lot of folks find driving around checking baits to be boring, but I find it pretty exciting - seeing which bait got hit, the trail cam pics, the amount of meat that was eaten, etc. I would also say I have heard of some hound hunters striking out; it isn't a sure thing either. As Mark pointed out, the PH connects with a houndsman; I am not sure at that point who typically runs the show. Whether you bait hunt or hound hunt, IMO the biggest success factor is hunting where there are a lot of leopards and using a PH who has a lot of experience with cats. Just call me Captain Obvious. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The big draw back that I see hunting leopard with hounds is that in all the ads I have seen it is quite a pricey endeaver verses blind hunting. Good cat hounds in africa must be a lot harder to come by than in the u.s. Mountain lion/cougar/puma hunting is near impossible without hounds as they are very unlikely to come to bait. However, south texas research shows that they will take over a hunter killed deer that was not recovered. I have read that in south texas 3 or 4 cougars are taken each year from deer stands by shear chance. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Wonder how the hounds react to tsetse and high density Lion areas? ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
|
| One of Us |
In tsetse areas they basically die. In high lion areas they are likely attracted by lion scents and follow.... how it may end you can imagine diego | |||
|
One of Us |
Been on 3 bait hunts and 3 dog hunts, I would do any of them again even if I prefer to hunt them with dogs. Thats the beauty with hunting there are so many ways of doing it. To people that says its a slamdunk proves just that they have never done it. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Zimbabwe Leopard hunt with Hounds?
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia