Without the lower jaw to do an accurate assessment of the Bulls age, but looking at his skull etc and weight length of ivory, we would put the bull at between 40-50 years of age.

Most people don't opt to shoot say a 50lber... It's all that around nowdays sadly.

I am no expert but I would think if it's 122 pounds it over 50.
Lesson I have learned is no more pic on internet
Even on a hunting site some want to condemn...
I think I will have the hunting company sign a pic waver from now on. Sad really sad

Has the pic on the OP of this thread been removed?

quote:

Originally posted by jeff h:
I am no expert but I would think if it's 122 pounds it over 50.
Lesson I have learned is no more pic on internet
Even on a hunting site some want to condemn...
I think I will have the hunting company sign a pic waver from now on. Sad really sad

Most outfitters don't name the hunters in their trophy pics.If they do they make their way to google images under your name.This way everybody that knows you knows what you are doing in your private life and if you decide to take an art class or a cooking class etc...one google of your name produces images that some may find difficult to accept.Ofcourse if you have a very common name you can get away from this but if not then you have to face this.Why should everyone know what you do in your private life? Do you know what they do? No so it is not fair.

http://www.theguardian.com/wor...e-conservation-group



German elephant hunter will be named and shamed, vows Zimbabwe taskforce
Conservation group will track down and vilify hunter who allegedly paid £40,000 to kill one of Zimabwe’s largest elephants

Peter Walker
@peterwalker99
Friday 16 October 2015 08.44 EDT Last modified on Friday 16 October 2015 08.45 EDT



A Zimbabwean conservation group has vowed to identify a German hunter who shot one of the largest elephants seen in the country, so the man can be publicly vilified like the killer of Cecil the lion.

Johnny Rodrigues, chairman of the Zimbabwe conservation taskforce, confirmed that the man, as yet unnamed, had a permit when he shot the huge male elephant last week. The animal was unknown to Zimbabwean experts and is believed to have wandered across the border from South Africa, he said.

Such old, massive elephants were almost never sighted, Rodrigues said: “They’re very, very rare. His tusks weighed over 54kg (119lb) – that’s unheard of. You might have 10,000 or 15,000 elephants, but only one in that herd who’s so majestic and iconic.”

The German hunter had paid a lot of money to go on a four-day hunt and had the correct licence and permit to shoot an elephant, Rodrigues said.

However, he added, killing such an elephant was wrong and the hunter should experience similar treatment to Walter Palmer, the Minnesota dentist who faced public protests after he shot Cecil, one of Zimbabwe’s best-known lions, in July.

Rodrigues said: “We don’t know who this hunter is but we will find out. The authorities and the hunters’ association are trying to protect him, but ... we’ve got his photograph. We will identify him and when we do we’ll leave the public to do what they did to Walter Palmer. People like that deserve it.

“He had a permit but he should have used his common sense to say, this is a majestic animal, and to report it to the authorities or to conservation groups. We would have collared it,” said Rodrigues.

“We have our frontline investigators on this and we will find out his identity and we will make it public. What he’s done is just greed. He’s not guilty of breaking the law by not having a permit and a licence. He had all that. But to shoot an iconic animal is wrong.”



While Palmer learned this week he will not face criminal charges in Zimbabwe for shooting Cecil, he faced weeks of protests after returning home.

According to the Daily Telegraph, the German man paid almost £40,000 to shoot a series of animals in Zimbabwe’s Gonarezhou national park. The newspaper reported that some hunters say the elephant might have been the biggest shot in 30 years.

Rodrigues said he only knew of two similar-sized elephants in Zimbabwe, one of whom had been killed by a poacher. Such is the size of their tusks, the elephant often drags them along the floor.

“These big animals, when they get sighted, should be collared,” he said. “There should be a law to prevent them being killed. Yes, they have gone past their productive life, but these hunters are acting like gods and taking their lives away. We should be protecting them, utilising them as a marketing tool, so tourists go and see them.

“Let’s have some ethics. Just because they have money, they don’t need to do it. It’s only so they can mount them on a bloody wall. What is that?”

It seems like the trouble maker resides in Zim.
Would someone post a big picture of this guys face?

I find it so incredibly sad that the day has come when taking a trophy of a lifetime turns into such a shitstorm even among us hunters.
Sad, sad indeed.

Is this Rodrigez cretin a citizen of Zimbabwe?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Graeme is exactly right, it is incumbent on every hunter to be responsible and consider the conservation implications of their efforts . . . if we do not do that, governments and regulators will do that for us and we will inevitably not like the result. If and when our hunting rights are taken away it will not be as a result of the actions of someone that was doing something illegal, it will be as a result of the actions of someone that was doing something unethical and unconscionable albeit legal.

HMMMMM??? Exactly the very same points I and Dr. Easter raised 5 years ago over the shooting of a 2 - yr old lion in Zambia, and you Mike were in fact one of the guys who criticized me harshly for doing so???

All I heard was, "it was legal - so go pound sand, etc, etc, etc!" My concern was never about the legality, only about the long-tern conservation implications on the lion, and the fact that rules/laws would be implemented if we hunters didn't control so ourselves. Ones we wouldn't like, and that's exactly what happened initially in TZ.

Apparently the above only applies to elephants then??? You certainly didn't apply your points above to lions 5 years ago!

I have since then realized some of my actions could have been better presented, and I'm not the final say on all things lion hunting - but my intentions were always in favor of what's best for the lion, nothing more (in my eyes anyway). As I am certain yours are too for the elephant!

FYI - as you know, hunting is NOT a "right!" Thus why in theory I agree with your overall points. I do however think shooting this particular elephant was just fine, as he was undoubtedly on his last set of molars, and not likely long for this world. I'm not sure what the "ethical" question is in this case, unless you know something I don't?

Most likely at this time of year in Malapati, this elephant was likely shot in the daylight. There's no waterholes within the hunting area to speak of, but the river is the boundary between Ghonarzhou / Malapati safari area. The river is likely not flowing now, but has pools all along it, etc. The buff / elephant come to Malapati for two reasons late in the year, one for the water in the river of course, and the other for better feed as they have been hammering the park for months prior. Elephants come out on a very regular basis later in the year, and some wander into around for a considerable time during the day too. My 84 pounder was shot at 5pm, about 1 mile from the boundary and he was continuing on into the block when we found him. The next morning we went back to the scene, and not far away was a smoking hot (HUGE) track going into the block just as mine the evening before.

It is not that it applies to elephants only.It is that it does not apply to his close buddies.

quote:

Originally posted by bwana cecil:
I find it so incredibly sad that the day has come when taking a trophy of a lifetime turns into such a shitstorm even among us hunters.
Sad, sad indeed.

Bwana,
It is due to the total mismanagement and corruption by the people managing the wildlife.

If parks departments actually looked after the wildlife...................

If there weren't operators known to shoot ele in Gonarzhou...............

If there weren't so many tuskers shot at night with a spot light............

If rhino could at least be safe inside a reserve like Bubye Valley with protective help from the government and not complicity in their destruction.........

Then there would be less bickering.

But with the current state of affairs, it is understandable. And that, is what is sad, sad indeed.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Graeme is exactly right, it is incumbent on every hunter to be responsible and consider the conservation implications of their efforts . . . if we do not do that, governments and regulators will do that for us and we will inevitably not like the result. If and when our hunting rights are taken away it will not be as a result of the actions of someone that was doing something illegal, it will be as a result of the actions of someone that was doing something unethical and unconscionable albeit legal.

HMMMMM??? Exactly the very same points I and Dr. Easter raised 5 years ago over the shooting of a 2 - yr old lion in Zambia, and you Mike were in fact one of the guys who criticized me harshly for doing so???

All I heard was, "it was legal - so go pound sand, etc, etc, etc!" My concern was never about the legality, only about the long-tern conservation implications on the lion, and the fact that rules/laws would be implemented if we hunters didn't control so ourselves. Ones we wouldn't like, and that's exactly what happened initially in TZ.

Apparently the above only applies to elephants then??? You certainly didn't apply your points above to lions 5 years ago!

I have since then realized some of my actions could have been better presented, and I'm not the final say on all things lion hunting - but my intentions were always in favor of what's best for the lion, nothing more (in my eyes anyway). As I am certain yours are too for the elephant!

FYI - as you know, hunting is NOT a "right!" Thus why in theory I agree with your overall points. I do however think shooting this particular elephant was just fine, as he was undoubtedly on his last set of molars, and not likely long for this world. I'm not sure what the "ethical" question is in this case, unless you know something I don't?

Most likely at this time of year in Malapati, this elephant was likely shot in the daylight. There's no waterholes within the hunting area to speak of, but the river is the boundary between Ghonarzhou / Malapati safari area. The river is likely not flowing now, but has pools all along it, etc. The buff / elephant come to Malapati for two reasons late in the year, one for the water in the river of course, and the other for better feed as they have been hammering the park for months prior. Elephants come out on a very regular basis later in the year, and some wander into around for a considerable time during the day too. My 84 pounder was shot at 5pm, about 1 mile from the boundary and he was continuing on into the block when we found him. The next morning we went back to the scene, and not far away was a smoking hot (HUGE) track going into the block just as mine the evening before.

Aaron,

Since you make money selling for this outfitter, your opinion is way too biased.

Jeff

You obviously don't know Aaron, to make a statement like that...

Could Hunted Elephant be the Next Cecil?

By SAPeople Staff Writer - Oct 16, 2015

It bears all the markings of another potential social media storm like the one created by Cecil the Lion. Initial reports claimed an elephant – which some said was iconic because of his huge tusks – was reportedly shot when he strayed out of the Kruger National Park into Zimbabwe a week ago. But how much of it is true?


Late on Wednesday the news appeared on Facebook, with pictures to “prove” it: the dead elephant, the huge tusks, a hunter with his gun standing next to a dead animal. Only late on Thursday, though, was the story picked up by a major publication, The Telegraph, by the same writer who broke the Cecil story, Peta Thornycroft. At the same time, a Facebook post used as a source for other stories about the hunt had disappeared.

So what is going on exactly?

Thornycroft wrote in her article that “a German hunter has risked the wrath of animal lovers once more by shooting dead one of the largest elephants ever seen in Zimbabwe”.


One of the pictures that appeared on Facebook alleged to be of the hunter and the elephant that was said to be Nkombo. Source: Facebook
The first reports identified the elephant as a very large tusker – possibly 60 years old with tusks weighing 54 kilograms each, and possibly one named Nkombo – that had strayed out of Kruger National Park. If it was Nkombo, he was apparently known to be in the Shingwedzi area in the north of Kruger. The elephant was reportedly shot in an area near Gonarezhou National Park, which is northeast of Kruger.

The Telegraph said the killing took place on 8 October “by a hunter who paid $60,000 for a permit to land a large bull elephant and was accompanied by a local, experienced professional hunter celebrated by the hunting community for finding his clients large elephants.

“The German national, who the hunt’s organisers have refused to name, had travelled to Zimbabwe to conduct a 21-day game hunt including the Big Five of elephants, leopards, lions, buffalo and rhinoceros,” the report said.

IF THE STORY IS INDEED TRUE, THE SIMILARITIES TO THE CECIL HUNT IN JULY ARE ALMOST UNCANNY.

On the site tuskersofafrica.com, Nkombo, which it says was collared until May 2014, was last photographed on October 3. He is described as “Left ear small notches near the center and hole in the upper part of the earlobe. Almost straight tusks and almost equal in length.”

A news report on Friday quoted an elephant authority in South Africa saying that going from descriptions of Nkombo versus the killed elephant, it was unlikely they were the same animal.



Neither the South African National Parks nor Zimbabwe’s Parks and Wildlife Management Authority have responded to requests for comment about the reports.

If the story is indeed true, the similarities to the Cecil hunt in July are almost uncanny. The event took place in Zimbabwe. The animal was important enough to have a name and was seen as iconic. The hunter was a foreigner who had paid a lot of money for the chance to kill the animal (the price paid for Cecil was apparently over $50,000). And Cecil had strayed out of his protected area when he was shot.

Earlier this week, coincidentally, it was reported that the US dentist who shot and killed Cecil, Walter Palmer, will not be prosecuted because officials said he had obtained the legal authority to hunt.

The news of the unconfirmed elephant hunt also comes barely a day after other bad news for Zimbabwe conservation, the poisoning by suspected poachers of at least 26 elephants in Hwange National Park. A week earlier 14 other bodies of poisoned elephants had been found.

A spokeswoman for Zimbabwe’s Parks and Wildlife Management Authority was quoted in a U.S. newspaper on Thursday saying the poachers used blocks of industrial-grade cyanide to poison watering holes and salt licks favoured by Hwange’s elephants.

- See more at: http://www.sapeople.com/2015/1...sthash.zLbVeXId.dpuf

quote:

Originally posted by Zimbabwe Wildlife Conservation:
Without the lower jaw to do an accurate assessment of the Bulls age, but looking at his skull etc and weight length of ivory, we would put the bull at between 40-50 years of age.

Most people don't opt to shoot say a 50lber... It's all that around nowdays sadly.

I have heard that the last set of molars comes in at around 43 years of age on an elephant give or take. After that the elephant has 5-15 years depending on his diet before they are worn down to the point that the elephant begins starving.

Would you please clarify this for me?

Thanks

So is now the right time to tell the media and anti's that this is all a hoax?

To say that Aaron's comments cannot be taken at face value due to the fact that he books for Nixon is laughable. But I doubt Aaron is laughing. It was, in a word, insulting. Aaron's experience with Africa, elephant, and the area this bull was taken in trumps any associations he may have with Nixon. To suggest otherwise, as Matt said, clearly indicates a that comment was made by someone who does not know Aaron well.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
To say that Aaron's comments cannot be taken at face value due to the fact that he books for Nixon is laughable. But I doubt Aaron is laughing. It was, in a word, insulting. Aaron's experience with Africa, elephant, and the area this bull was taken in trumps any associations he may have with Nixon. To suggest otherwise, as Matt said, clearly indicates a that comment was made by someone who does not know Aaron well.

+1!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
To say that Aaron's comments cannot be taken at face value due to the fact that he books for Nixon is laughable. But I doubt Aaron is laughing. It was, in a word, insulting. Aaron's experience with Africa, elephant, and the area this bull was taken in trumps any associations he may have with Nixon. To suggest otherwise, as Matt said, clearly indicates a that comment was made by someone who does not know Aaron well.

I said his opinion was biased. Exactly how is that insulting? Are you going to tell me that someone that has a financial interest in a topic/company is unbiased? I like Aaron a lot, but I don't think after going after Jines then me pointing out he is biased he should be aggrieved or insulted. It wasn't mean't that way. But since everyone here now has the skin of a 97 year old woman, I apologize Aaron. I thought we we conversing. I didn't know your manhood and African experience were challenged. At least Fulson thinks they were.

Jeff

There are very few people here if any that don't have some money interest in the industry if not just being a "good client" to an outfitter or just those that want to belong to a certain group.It is very difficult to get a straight opinion from anyone-sadly.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
To say that Aaron's comments cannot be taken at face value due to the fact that he books for Nixon is laughable. But I doubt Aaron is laughing. It was, in a word, insulting. Aaron's experience with Africa, elephant, and the area this bull was taken in trumps any associations he may have with Nixon. To suggest otherwise, as Matt said, clearly indicates a that comment was made by someone who does not know Aaron well.

I said his opinion was biased. Exactly how is that insulting? Are you going to tell me that someone that has a financial interest in a topic/company is unbiased? I like Aaron a lot, but I don't think after going after Jines then me pointing out he is biased he should be aggrieved or insulted. It wasn't mean't that way. But since everyone here now has the skin of a 97 year old woman, I apologize Aaron. I thought we we conversing. I didn't know your manhood and African experience were challenged. At least Fulson thinks they were.

Jeff

Jeff - Come on man, really? I DO NOT find your comment insulting at all, but in no way is my opinion biased based on any relationship I have with Nixon. That's just non-sense! If I thought anything here was wrong, I would say so!

I don't care who/what/where this bull was taken (legally of course) in my opinion it was 100% acceptable to hunt/kill this particular bull for reasons I outlined already. Secondly, any association I have with SSG does not change the fact that the same ethical rules Mike is applying to this case, are not the same he has applied to the lion in the past - period. I like / respect the hell out of Mike, I really do! I just disagree with him - that's all.

Frankly, I did NOT sell one single new elephant hunt to SSG in 2015 - partly because of the USFWS ivory importation ban, and secondly for reasons of my own. Anyone I have hunting there in 2015, was in fact booked in 2013 / 2014. If I was relying on elephant hunt sales in Zim to survive, I would be SCREWED!!

I still believe in the area, at the right time especially - but hunting Malapati comes with its own unique set of circumstances too!! You know what I mean.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
To say that Aaron's comments cannot be taken at face value due to the fact that he books for Nixon is laughable. But I doubt Aaron is laughing. It was, in a word, insulting. Aaron's experience with Africa, elephant, and the area this bull was taken in trumps any associations he may have with Nixon. To suggest otherwise, as Matt said, clearly indicates a that comment was made by someone who does not know Aaron well.

I said his opinion was biased. Exactly how is that insulting? Are you going to tell me that someone that has a financial interest in a topic/company is unbiased? I like Aaron a lot, but I don't think after going after Jines then me pointing out he is biased he should be aggrieved or insulted. It wasn't mean't that way. But since everyone here now has the skin of a 97 year old woman, I apologize Aaron. I thought we we conversing. I didn't know your manhood and African experience were challenged. At least Fulson thinks they were.

Jeff

Jeff - Come on man, really? I DO NOT find your comment insulting at all, but in no way is my opinion biased based on any relationship I have with Nixon. That's just non-sense! If I thought anything here was wrong, I would say so!

I don't care who/what/where this bull was taken (legally of course) in my opinion it was 100% acceptable to hunt/kill this particular bull for reasons I outlined already. Secondly, any association I have with SSG does not change the fact that the same ethical rules Mike is applying to this case, are not the same he has applied to the lion in the past - period. I like / respect the hell out of Mike, I really do! I just disagree with him - that's all.

Frankly, I did NOT sell one single new elephant hunt to SSG in 2015 - partly because of the USFWS ivory importation ban, and secondly for reasons of my own. Anyone I have hunting there in 2015, was in fact booked in 2013 / 2014. If I was relying on elephant hunt sales in Zim to survive, I would be SCREWED!!

I still believe in the area, at the right time especially - but hunting Malapati comes with its own unique set of circumstances too!! You know what I mean.

Fair enough.

Jeff

If Aaron was not set back, then I guess I should not have been. But having associations with products, operations, safari firms ( and GOD knows I have them all) does not mean you cannot speak honestly, or have opinions without them being biased.

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Zimbabwe Wildlife Conservation:
Without the lower jaw to do an accurate assessment of the Bulls age, but looking at his skull etc and weight length of ivory, we would put the bull at between 40-50 years of age.

Most people don't opt to shoot say a 50lber... It's all that around nowdays sadly.

I have heard that the last set of molars comes in at around 43 years of age on an elephant give or take. After that the elephant has 5-15 years depending on his diet before they are worn down to the point that the elephant begins starving.

Would you please clarify this for me?

Thanks

More or less, your comment is accurate. Elephants get 6 sets of molars, the last of which comes in roughly around the 40 - 45 year mark on average, from what a couple of scientists have told me personally. Diet, etc, plays a part in that according to them, just as it does regarding how long the last set lasts - according to what I was told. I would say on average that gives a bull elephant an average life span of 50 - 60 years at most. This particular elephant certainly had a very sunken head, usually a good indication of advanced age. To know exactly sure would be interesting.

But unless otherwise illegal for some reason, I would never suggest to anyone that this magnificent trophy should not have been hunted. What now, we are going to start saying that particular "trophy" is TOO big / TOO old - and he should be left alone to live out his last days and then die a slow death of starvation. Knowing full well nobody benefitted from his death at all, not the game department (trophy fee) not the outfitter / employees, not the hunter, and not the local community (meat / fees from hunting if applicable). Especially in places where often times the outfitter/hunters dollars/community have in fact helped to protect the flora/fauna where bulls like this occasionally roam. We appreciate the help, but just don't reap the rewards of your work/investment. Not to mention, the next worst likelihood is he's poached - what a true waste that would be. Tusks removed, left to rot in the hot African sun - all while some Chinese bozo smuggles the ivory back to China.

According to everyone, nobody even knew this bull existed - even that idiot Johnny Rodriguez said that. How can an animal, unknown to anyone - be an icon??? Ya, that's not how the whole icon thing works people. Obviously he wasn't a tourist attraction, a photo op, or a money generator for any National Park! He was simply a large wild animal, who happened to wander into a legal hunting area - where elephant hunting is what they do, that NOBODY was aware of until the pics hit the internet!!! I say congrats to the hunter, to Nixon Dzingai the same - and I hope this magnificent bull is displayed somewhere special to the owner. He's certainly garnered way more notoriety in death, than he ever did in life!!

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:
Bull of a lifetime. I could only imagine being able to track and hunt such a big tusker. Great job to the PH and his staff.

I do not understand why some of the people on here would say they would rather shoot a 50 pounder. I want to harvest the best trophy possible in a legal manner. Yes, the experience has everything to do with the hunt but you should desire the best trophy possible. I am a Charter Boat Captain. I hear other Captains all the time on the radio say that they would never kill a 1,000 pound (Grander) Blue Marlin. That changes real quick when you have him hooked and pulled up beside the boat.

It is easy to sit behind a computer and like you are Mr. Conservation.

I would have loved the opportunity to take a shot at this great bull. The only reservation that I would have is if I had to pay by the pound. I do not know if this is fact but I have herd rumors where clients pay up to 1,000 per pound.

Congrats!

Cause a proper 50 pounder from the Save would meet the basic requirements of the USFW to ever allow imports from Zim. The Save elephant will be taken from a herd that is surveyed, a quota scientifically dtermined, if culls need to done they are professional and humanely done and so on.

Zim has done a terrible job of managing it's elephants (wildlife, farms ect the list goes on). Only person funding a survey is a anti hunter - billionaire Paul Allen. Tells you what all our hunting as conservation associations are doing - handing out inner circle awards.

Either we operate in a world of scientific game management and hunting or keep seeing hunting privileges taken away .

Look at how giant bluefin tuna are regulated.

Aaron since you are a supporter of scientific approaches to aging lions and designing optimal harvest rules. Have you ever asked or inquired how quota is determined at malanpati? Is there coordination with Frankfort zoo who runs the park on harvesting elephants ?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Zimbabwe Wildlife Conservation:
Without the lower jaw to do an accurate assessment of the Bulls age, but looking at his skull etc and weight length of ivory, we would put the bull at between 40-50 years of age.

Most people don't opt to shoot say a 50lber... It's all that around nowdays sadly.

I have heard that the last set of molars comes in at around 43 years of age on an elephant give or take. After that the elephant has 5-15 years depending on his diet before they are worn down to the point that the elephant begins starving.

Would you please clarify this for me?

Thanks

More or less, your comment is accurate. Elephants get 6 sets of molars, the last of which comes in roughly around the 40 - 45 year mark on average, from what a couple of scientists have told me personally. Diet, etc, plays a part in that according to them, just as it does regarding how long the last set lasts - according to what I was told. I would say on average that gives a bull elephant an average life span of 50 - 60 years at most. This particular elephant certainly had a very sunken head, usually a good indication of advanced age. To know exactly sure would be interesting.
!

Thanks.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/16/...-zimbabwe/index.html


CNN News video concerning the elephant hunt.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news...on-was-a3091916.html



Ricky Gervais offers £40,000 to knock teeth out of German who killed Africa's biggest elephant

The outraged comedian made the offer after a hunter shot dead what is believed to be the biggest elephant in Africa for half a century.

HANNAH AL-OTHMAN 8 hours ago


The elephant was killed in Zimbabwe, less than three months after Cecil the Lion was shot dead by Minnesotan dentist Walter Palmer.

Gervais, known for his strong views on animal rights, was among those who condemned the killing.

He tweeted: "German Hunter pays 40K to kill Africa's biggest elephant. Can I pay 40K to knock Germany's biggest tw*t's teeth out?"



The elephant, which had 122-pound tusks, was killed on October 8 in Gonarezhou National Park in south-east Zimbabwe, and is thought to be the biggest elephant killed on the continent in decades.

According to Johnny Rodrigues, Chairman of Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, the bull elephant's tusks were so large that they dragged along the ground.


The hunter, thought to be a German national, reportedly paid $60,000 (£39,000) for a hunting permit to shoot the beast as part of an organised hunt, according to The Telegraph.

He was accompanied by an experienced guide throughout the 21 day trip.

The elephant was thought to be at least 40 years old at the time it was shot.

Johnny Rodrigues Chairman for Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, said it is suspected that the animal may have come from the Kruger Park in South Africa.


However, Kruger spokesman William Mabasa said: "If this elephant came up from the Kruger, he would have had to go through all the communities on the edge of Gonarezhou and someone would have seen him. It's not possible.

"The most disappointing thing is that when a local Zimbabwean kills an animal for food for his family, he is sentenced to between 5 and 15 years in prison but when a wealthy foreign hunter comes in and shoots an animal, he gets away with it. What message are we giving the people?"

There was global outcry when Cecil the lion, was killed with a crossbow in July in Zimbabwe's Hwange National Park, as apart of an organised hunt.

Animal rights charities criticised the decision by Zimbabwean officials this week not to prosecute the dentist, but the authorities said he had filled out the proper paperwork allowing him to hunt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj2gCxreGSI


Import ban may prevent German hunter from bringing tusks home.



Published on Oct 16, 2015
Import of trophy tusks from one of Africa's largest elephants could be illegal, warns Germany, as reward offered for hunter's identity
Germany will consider blocking the import from Zimbabwe of the tusks of one of Africa’s biggest elephants killed by one of its nationals, it said on Friday amid growing global outrage over the hunt.
The country’s nature conservation agency said it had in the past refused entry for animals killed in trophy hunts and would not hesitate to do so in this case if the hunt had infringed German wildlife regulations.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Graeme is exactly right, it is incumbent on every hunter to be responsible and consider the conservation implications of their efforts . . . if we do not do that, governments and regulators will do that for us and we will inevitably not like the result. If and when our hunting rights are taken away it will not be as a result of the actions of someone that was doing something illegal, it will be as a result of the actions of someone that was doing something unethical and unconscionable albeit legal.

HMMMMM??? Exactly the very same points I and Dr. Easter raised 5 years ago over the shooting of a 2 - yr old lion in Zambia, and you Mike were in fact one of the guys who criticized me harshly for doing so???

All I heard was, "it was legal - so go pound sand, etc, etc, etc!" My concern was never about the legality, only about the long-tern conservation implications on the lion, and the fact that rules/laws would be implemented if we hunters didn't control so ourselves. Ones we wouldn't like, and that's exactly what happened initially in TZ.

Apparently the above only applies to elephants then??? You certainly didn't apply your points above to lions 5 years ago!

I have since then realized some of my actions could have been better presented, and I'm not the final say on all things lion hunting - but my intentions were always in favor of what's best for the lion, nothing more (in my eyes anyway). As I am certain yours are too for the elephant!

FYI - as you know, hunting is NOT a "right!" Thus why in theory I agree with your overall points. I do however think shooting this particular elephant was just fine, as he was undoubtedly on his last set of molars, and not likely long for this world. I'm not sure what the "ethical" question is in this case, unless you know something I don't?

Most likely at this time of year in Malapati, this elephant was likely shot in the daylight. There's no waterholes within the hunting area to speak of, but the river is the boundary between Ghonarzhou / Malapati safari area. The river is likely not flowing now, but has pools all along it, etc. The buff / elephant come to Malapati for two reasons late in the year, one for the water in the river of course, and the other for better feed as they have been hammering the park for months prior. Elephants come out on a very regular basis later in the year, and some wander into around for a considerable time during the day too. My 84 pounder was shot at 5pm, about 1 mile from the boundary and he was continuing on into the block when we found him. The next morning we went back to the scene, and not far away was a smoking hot (HUGE) track going into the block just as mine the evening before.

Aaron,

Since you make money selling for this outfitter, your opinion is way too biased.

Jeff

That was a really stupid statement.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

According to everyone, nobody even knew this bull existed - even that idiot Johnny Rodriguez said that. How can an animal, unknown to anyone - be an icon??? Ya, that's not how the whole icon thing works people. Obviously he wasn't a tourist attraction, a photo op, or a money generator for any National Park!!

That is exactly what I was thinking. The icon that no one had ever seen.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by AilsaWheels:

quote:

Originally posted by Zimbabwe Wildlife Conservation:
Without the lower jaw to do an accurate assessment of the Bulls age, but looking at his skull etc and weight length of ivory, we would put the bull at between 40-50 years of age.

Most people don't opt to shoot say a 50lber... It's all that around nowdays sadly.

I have heard that the last set of molars comes in at around 43 years of age on an elephant give or take. After that the elephant has 5-15 years depending on his diet before they are worn down to the point that the elephant begins starving.

Would you please clarify this for me?

Thanks

More or less, your comment is accurate. Elephants get 6 sets of molars, the last of which comes in roughly around the 40 - 45 year mark on average, from what a couple of scientists have told me personally. Diet, etc, plays a part in that according to them, just as it does regarding how long the last set lasts - according to what I was told. I would say on average that gives a bull elephant an average life span of 50 - 60 years at most. This particular elephant certainly had a very sunken head, usually a good indication of advanced age. To know exactly sure would be interesting.

But unless otherwise illegal for some reason, I would never suggest to anyone that this magnificent trophy should not have been hunted. What now, we are going to start saying that particular "trophy" is TOO big / TOO old - and he should be left alone to live out his last days and then die a slow death of starvation. Knowing full well nobody benefitted from his death at all, not the game department (trophy fee) not the outfitter / employees, not the hunter, and not the local community (meat / fees from hunting if applicable). Especially in places where often times the outfitter/hunters dollars/community have in fact helped to protect the flora/fauna where bulls like this occasionally roam. We appreciate the help, but just don't reap the rewards of your work/investment. Not to mention, the next worst likelihood is he's poached - what a true waste that would be. Tusks removed, left to rot in the hot African sun - all while some Chinese bozo smuggles the ivory back to China.

According to everyone, nobody even knew this bull existed - even that idiot Johnny Rodriguez said that. How can an animal, unknown to anyone - be an icon??? Ya, that's not how the whole icon thing works people. Obviously he wasn't a tourist attraction, a photo op, or a money generator for any National Park! He was simply a large wild animal, who happened to wander into a legal hunting area - where elephant hunting is what they do, that NOBODY was aware of until the pics hit the internet!!! I say congrats to the hunter, to Nixon Dzingai the same - and I hope this magnificent bull is displayed somewhere special to the owner. He's certainly garnered way more notoriety in death, than he ever did in life!!

Aaron since you are a supporter of scientific approaches to aging lions and designing optimal harvest rules. Have you ever asked or inquired how quota is determined at malanpati? Is there coordination with Frankfort zoo who runs the park on harvesting elephants ?

Mike

The thought of Gervais knocking someone's perfectly good teeth out is so funny. I guess he does bill himself as a comedian. I doubt Gervais could knock the caramel off a creme brulee.

More info on the hunt

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...ter-in-Zimbabwe.html


Nixon Dzingai, the professional hunter who led the hunt, said the elephant had arrived unexpectedly one morning towards the end of the German’s trip, and they had not realised the size of his tusks until it was too late.
"We did not have to stalk the elephant it just showed up at 7.30 in the morning, before the heat. I was so surprised when we saw how the horns. My client did not ask for this, he just wanted an elephant,” he told The Telegraph.
He defended the hunt as legitimate however, pointing to the age of the elephant. “I estimate this one was 60 years-old,” he said. “Anyone could see it was a very old elephant.”

Mike

LOL @ Germany possibly refusing import. Frankly, if I were the hunter and could afford 60K for the hunt, I would just build a small home in a more import friendly country because there is no way in hell I am sacrificing those tusks. I would then send the German authorities a picture of myself, standing between the tusks in my trophy room, mooning them.

quote:

But unless otherwise illegal for some reason, I would never suggest to anyone that this magnificent trophy should not have been hunted. What now, we are going to start saying that particular "trophy" is TOO big / TOO old - and he should be left alone to live out his last days and then die a slow death of starvation. Knowing full well nobody benefitted from his death at all, not the game department (trophy fee) not the outfitter / employees, not the hunter, and not the local community (meat / fees from hunting if applicable). Especially in places where often times the outfitter/hunters dollars/community have in fact helped to protect the flora/fauna where bulls like this occasionally roam. We appreciate the help, but just don't reap the rewards of your work/investment. Not to mention, the next worst likelihood is he's poached - what a true waste that would be. Tusks removed, left to rot in the hot African sun - all while some Chinese bozo smuggles the ivory back to China.

Aaron, I wholeheartedly agree with you on this...it really is as simple as you say.

It's getting to the point that if you are lucky enough to shoot a truly remarkable animal you will be subjected to public humiliation and death threats. Not suggesting that anyone run for cover, but with the hypersensitive, misguided anti-hunting sentiment in the world, is it really a great idea to plaster your hunting pictures all over the Internet? And if you do, isn't it reasonable to expect a significant backlash?

Not saying that I would have passed up such a trophy, but you can bet no one would see a public picture of it. Then again, I don't hunt for the approval or adulation of others. I hunt for me.

quote:

Not saying that I would have passed up such a trophy, but you can bet no one would see a public picture of it. Then again, I don't hunt for the approval or adulation of others. I hunt for me.

I hunt for me too....but I still think I would project 100 foot square versions of that photo onto the sides of large buildings. Just a stunningly cool animal.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Blue Devil:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Graeme is exactly right, it is incumbent on every hunter to be responsible and consider the conservation implications of their efforts . . . if we do not do that, governments and regulators will do that for us and we will inevitably not like the result. If and when wour hunting rights are taken away it will not be as a result of the actions eeof someone that was doing something illegal, it will be as a result of the actions of someone that was doing something unethical and unconscionable albeit legal.

HMMMMM??? Exactly the very same points I and Dr. Easter raised 5 years ago over the shooting of a 2 - yr old lion in Zambia, and you Mike were in fact one of the guys who criticized me harshly for doing so???

All I heard was, "it was legal - so go pound sand, etc, etc, etc!" My concern was never about the legality, only about the long-tern conservation implications on the lion, and the fact that rules/laws would be implemented if we hunters didn't control so ourselves. Ones we wouldn't like, and that's exactly what happened initially in TZ.

Apparently the above only applies to elephants then??? You certainly didn't apply your points above to lions 5 years ago!

I have since then realized some of my actions could have been better presented, and I'm not the final say on all things lion hunting - but my intentions were always in favor of what's best for the lion, nothing more (in my eyes anyway). As I am certain yours are too for the elephant!

FYI - as you know, hunting is NOT a "right!" Thus why in theory I agree with your overall points. I do however think shooting this particular elephant was just fine, as he was undoubtedly on his last set of molars, and not likely long for this world. I'm not sure what the "ethical" question is in this case, unless you know something I don't?

Most likely at this time of year in Malapati, this elephant was likely shot in the daylight. There's no waterholes within the hunting area to speak of, but the river is the boundary between Ghonarzhou / Malapati safari area. The river is likely not flowing now, but has pools all along it, etc. The buff / elephant come to Malapati for two reasons late in the year, one for the water in the river of course, and the other for better feed as they have been hammering the park for months prior. Elephants come out on a very regular basis later in the year, and some wander into around for a considerable time during the day too. My 84 pounder was shot at 5pm, about 1 mile from the boundary and he was continuing on into the block when we found him. The next morning we went back to the scene, and not far away was a smoking hot (HUGE) track going into the block just as mine the evening before.

Aaron,

Since you make money selling for this outfitter, your opinion is way too biased.

Jeff

That was a really stupid statement.

Thanks!

I try...

Jeff