THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM AFRICAN HUNTING FORUM

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    Concern about declining Cape buffalo trophy quality
Page 1 2 3 

Moderators: Saeed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Concern about declining Cape buffalo trophy quality
 Login/Join
 
one of us
posted
https://www.farmersweekly.co.z...falo-trophy-quality/



Concern about declining Cape buffalo trophy quality

By Annelie ColemanOctober 30, 2018 9:15 am

The Cape buffalo occupies a top spot on hunters’ wish lists, but studies show a decrease in the quality of buffalo trophies, according to Dr Johan Rabie, buffalo breeder and owner of Chimoyo Wildlife. Annelie Coleman asked him about the reasons behind this worrying trend.


According to Dr Johan Rabie, legal hunting generally improves wildlife populations, but in the case of buffalo it has probably contributed to the decline in the quality of trophies.


What is the current size of South Africa’s buffalo industry?
The country has about 2 500 registered buffalo farms. The privately owned, disease-free buffalo population is estimated at 50 000 to 70 000 animals.

How accessible is the buffalo breeding industry for the less affluent, given that some bulls sell for millions of rand?
We need to differentiate between stud and commercial breeders. Stud breeders easily pay R5 million for an outstanding bull and R1 million for a cow or heifer. I know of only 22 buffalo bulls with horns exceeding 50” [127cm] in the entire country. Such bulls are rare and therefore very expensive. But this may create the perception that buffalo breeding is restricted to the super-rich.


The capital outlay for initial stud breeding stock is substantial. Stud breeders are not interested in bulls with horns measuring less than 48”, according to the measurement convention used in Rowland Ward’s Records of Big Game [RW], which records the measurements of game animals taken in fair-chase hunting, or less than 126”, according to the measurement convention used by Safari Club International (SCI). Pedigree, fertility and pre-potency also have an influence on the spectacular sums paid for outstanding genetics.

Commercial breeders mostly produce bulls for the hunting market. There is a huge shortage on the African continent, and hard-bossed hunting bulls sell for R80 000 to R200 000 each.

The generally accepted norm is that the monetary value of a bull should equate to the reasonable market value of 10 to 15 of his offspring. Most commercial buffalo breeders are willing to pay between R500 000 and R1 million for a breeding bull.

A new entrant to the commercial buffalo industry can acquire a bull, as well as 10 to 20 breeding cows, for between R2 million and R3,5 million. New entrants find this segment much more accessible and affordable.

What contribution does the hunting of Cape buffalo make to the total hunting industry in South Africa?
The Cape buffalo occupies a top spot on most hunters’ wish lists. After Canada, South Africa is the number one hunting destination for Americans and their preferred African destination by far.

South Africa’s variety of 45 major plains game species, the Big Five, abundance of good-quality trophy animals, excellent infrastructure, and good medical care are all cited as major attractions for US hunters.

Cape buffalo contributed 12%, or R145 million, to South Africa’s R1,2 billion annual foreign currency earnings from trophy hunting in 2015. This makes it the second-biggest earner after lion hunting, which contributed R181 million.

How does the local hunting industry compare with buffalo hunting in the rest of Africa, such as in Kenya?
The sustainable utilisation of Africa’s wildlife is a vital component of its conservation. In countries where hunting has been banned, wildlife numbers have crashed.

Where hunting is legal, wildlife populations are booming. Kenya introduced a total ban on hunting in the 1970s and its wildlife has suffered severely as a result. On the contrary, South Africa now has more wildlife than 150 years ago.

According to the RW, during the past 15 years, South Africa has moved from the fifth-highest to the third-highest position for the number of buffalo hunted as trophies, surpassing Zambia and Zimbabwe.

I expect the gap between South Africa and Tanzania, as well as Kenya, to narrow significantly, and the gap between South Africa and Zimbabwe, Zambia and Mozambique to widen.

This is because South Africa is the only country on the continent where active breeding efforts have resulted in significant growth in the buffalo population. Between 1896 and 2000, fewer than 7% of all RW trophies were hunted in South Africa. In the short time since, this has increased to 44%.

You said that horn sizes of buffalo trophies had declined over the past 50 years. Please explain why this has happened.
Studies from other African countries demonstrate a decline in trophy quality. Muposhi et al (2016) found that the trophy quality of elephant, buffalo, kudu and sable antelope taken in the Matetsi Safari Area in Zimbabwe had decreased.

A Tanzanian study (Wilfred, 2012) reached the same conclusion for buffalo, impala, warthog and kudu.

Legal hunting, as described above, generally affects wildlife populations positively.

However, in the case of buffalo, it probably contributed to this decline. Careful analysis of the photographs of the SCI top six-ranked buffalo bulls shows that five of them were probably hunted younger than 7,5 years, well before they earned breeding status.

The long-term effect of this negative and unsustainable selection method obviously caused this general decline in trophy quality.

What mistakes have been made in buffalo breeding?
The biggest known buffalo bull alive today measures between 55” and 56”, which is 6” short of the RW record. Of the 697 bulls in the RW book, 214 measured less than 47”. The average breeding bull in South Africa today is probably between 43” and 45”.

As a result of poaching and diseases such as bovine tuberculosis, the bulls in our game parks and other African countries probably measure even less.

Therefore, the average buffalo bull alive today has far smaller horns than his counterpart of a century ago. Using horn spread as a major selection criterion is thus fully justifiable.

One of our mistakes is that we are ineffective in countering the propaganda of those implying that we are fixated on horn selection only and that this will eventually result in ill-adapted, inbred, disease-prone animals.

Buffalo breeders, hunting outfitters and everybody in the wildlife value chain must collaborate closely to promote the magnificent and well-balanced buffalo specimens that are produced in our extensive breeding and hunting operations.

What would be the best-case scenario for the buffalo breeding and hunting industry in the next decade?
The continued legal protection of individual property rights is first and foremost. Second is the expansion of the Veterinary Procedure Notice, which controls buffalo testing and movement, to include greater levels of self-regulation.

This needs to happen as soon as possible as it will facilitate the trade of buffalo between existing buffalo owners, and easier trade will in turn attract new entrants.

Third, in the best-case scenario, the permit system is streamlined without sacrificing proper disease control measures. Currently, the movement of a buffalo between two provinces requires approvals from the directors of veterinary services of both provinces, an import permit from the department of environmental affairs in the destination province, and an export permit from the province of origin. This means approvals from at least four separate government offices.

In addition, a registered breeder with more than one approved buffalo property is unable to move buffalo between his own farms without going through this time-consuming and expensive testing and quarantine protocol.

In the latter scenario, a buffalo breeder, at his own risk, should be allowed to move buffalo with the necessary approvals and permits, but without the requirement to have them tested again.

Lastly, game ranchers, outfitters, professional hunters and [casual] hunters need to work together to uphold fair-chase principles and promote South Africa accordingly.

Fair chase is the ethical, sportsmanlike and lawful pursuit and hunting of any wild big-game animal in an area large enough and in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage.

It is crucial for buffalo breeders to supply the hunting market with unadulterated wild animals rather than semi-domesticated specimens raised on supplementary feed and in constant close proximity to humans.

Email Dr Johan Rabie at johan@chimoyo.com.


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
Posts: 9535 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I love to hunt Cape Buffalo. Although I have only killed 3, it is due to the high cost of the total experience.

When you had in airfare, hotel rooms, daily rate, trophy fees, tips, and shipping and dipping. It is a lot of money IMO.

Once you pay that much money, you want to get the best trophy you can get for your money.

Although a first timer, or an old timer, who has killed great bulls in the past, might be satisfied with a typical 32-34 inch buff; more discerning hunter's trying to get the most out of their hunting bucks, want something in the 40" class.

These creatures eventually get shot out, and even the 32-34 inch bulls are taking a beating.

Perhaps this trend could be alleviated by offering
lost cost buffalo hunts for the smaller (i.e. non-trophy) bulls?

That's what has been happening with elephants for some time now.

Taking out the "marginal" bulls should help with the genetics of the herds, I would think.

If they could offer these hunts for around, let's say $3000,00 (daily rate for 5 days and trophy fee), I would think that they would get a lot of takers.

Could they make a decent profit? That, I don't have a clue.

Just a thought.


Hunting buff is better than sex!
 
Posts: 2205 | Registered: 29 December 2015Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of crshelton
posted Hide Post
quote:
but studies show a decrease in the quality of buffalo trophies,


So decades of hunting the larger bulls and passing on the smaller bulls has changed the natural mix of the two?

Roll Eyes


NRA Life Benefactor Member,
DRSS, DWWC, Whittington
Center,Android Reloading
Ballistics App at
http://www.xplat.net/
 
Posts: 2294 | Location: Republic of Texas | Registered: 25 May 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Todd Williams
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BuffHunter63:


Once you pay that much money, you want to get the best trophy you can get for your money.

Although a first timer, or an old timer, who has killed great bulls in the past, might be satisfied with a typical 32-34 inch buff; more discerning hunter's trying to get the most out of their hunting bucks, want something in the 40" class.



Actually, there are many of us "more discerning hunters" trying to get the most out of their hunting bucks wanting the best hunting EXPERIENCE regardless of the animal's spread.

Evidence of this can be seen in the number of scrum capped, otherwise broken horned, or just older declining bulls being taken as these these old dugga boys are most often found alone or in pairs, completely switched on, far away from the herds, offering an exceptional challenge to get into range. It's an old discussion and I know I'm in a distinct minority on this forum, but I'd much rather take an old beaten and battered bull in close quarters with an open sighted big bore double rifle, requiring days and days of tracking and numerous blown stalks before getting a hard earned shot than sniping a 45" bull from a couple hundred yards with a scoped 375.

YMMV however.


coffee
 
Posts: 8533 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I like to walk a lot and spend my whole day out in the bush.Next time I hunt them-which I hope will not be too long,I will hold out for a 40 incher just so I can spend more time out hunting.This year I told my PH I wanted an old buff with polished horns and we got two by day 4- one very nice but not too wide.My choice is a very old and wild dagga boy. If he is wide all the better.I agree with what Todd is saying.
 
Posts: 11651 | Location: Montreal | Registered: 07 November 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of cal pappas
posted Hide Post
I've noticed a decline in buffalo trophy measurements since my first hunt there in 1994.

It used to be "look for 40+"
Then it was "look for a good 38"
Then to "we'll find a good bull in the mid-thirties"
Now it's a "solid boss, we're not going to worry about how wide it is"

You'll hunt more in Zim, but nice bulls are found on the larger properties in SA. Large enough to give the feel of a fair chase hunt.
PM me and I'll put you in contact with the ranch were I took a 43+ and a friend took a 45 1/2 August of this year. I'm going again this summer.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of tomahawker
posted Hide Post
I’ll go out on a limb here and ask those who advocate shooting old scrum cap bulls, have you shot a 40” or above bull? I’ll bet yes. We’re all tyros in the beginning dreaming big hunts.
 
Posts: 3633 | Registered: 27 November 2014Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
May be there is a decline in buffalo quality bred on farms and ear tagged in South Africa! rotflmo

In the wild there are plenty of old, hard bossed bulls - regardless of SCI’s silly measurements!

That is the only measurement I look for.

Old bulls with a hard boss.

Size is immaterial, as I have shot lots of bulls in the 44-45 range, and only one broken horned 49 inches.

I just love hunting buffalo!

Very easy to kill with a 375.

One seems to need several shots from 577 rifles to kill one rotflmo


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69284 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of fairgame
posted Hide Post
When you hunt wild places you never know what to expect. I have had first timers shot mid 40's buff and repeat clients turn down 30's looking for 40 plus.

Set your own standards and hunt your own way but can you afford to come home without your trophy?


ROYAL KAFUE LTD
Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com
Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144
Instagram - kafueroyal
 
Posts: 10003 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of fairgame
posted Hide Post
quote:
If they could offer these hunts for around, let's say $3000,00 (daily rate for 5 days and trophy fee), I would think that they would get a lot of takers.


Offer a buff lower than the trophy fee?


ROYAL KAFUE LTD
Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com
Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144
Instagram - kafueroyal
 
Posts: 10003 | Location: Zambia | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Todd Williams
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by tomahawker:
I’ll go out on a limb here and ask those who advocate shooting old scrum cap bulls, have you shot a 40” or above bull? I’ll bet yes. We’re all tyros in the beginning dreaming big hunts.


No. Haven't shot a 40"+ bull.

Also haven't shot a scrum capped bull but did shoot a broken horned bull in 2012.

Have had a hell of a good time hunting buffalo however.
 
Posts: 8533 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of ManuelM
posted Hide Post
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo...y=robin_hurt_safaris

Shooting that kind of animals on a single safari is no longer posible, likely many of the big genetics are gone, still as long as you let them live any old bull is a great troph


Manuel Maldonado
MM Sonoran Desert Hunters
https://www.facebook.com/huntingMM
 
Posts: 532 | Location: Hermosillo, Sonora | Registered: 06 May 2013Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
If they could offer these hunts for around, let's say $3000,00 (daily rate for 5 days and trophy fee), I would think that they would get a lot of takers.


Offer a buff lower than the trophy fee?


I think they mean a farm bred animal, not a wild one where the trophy fee is exactly the same, no matter how big he is.

I have seen escalating fees being charged for bigger trophies in South Africa, may be this is what is meant here.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69284 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of cal pappas
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
If they could offer these hunts for around, let's say $3000,00 (daily rate for 5 days and trophy fee), I would think that they would get a lot of takers.


Offer a buff lower than the trophy fee?


I think they mean a farm bred animal, not a wild one where the trophy fee is exactly the same, no matter how big he is.

I have seen escalating fees being charged for bigger trophies in South Africa, may be this is what is meant here.


Saeed:
Is not charging more for higher quality done in Europe? The hunting I've seen advertsed there is open and wild, but the antlered game is charged for by weight.

I've also seen hunts that charge based on size in the Pacific as well as in the USA. Some fenced some wild. An operator in Zimbabwe began a price list based on size a decade or more ago.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
I refuse to hunt ANY place that charges for the size of the animals.

I could not careless where it is.

Europe, New Zealand or anywhere else.

I find it so silly when someone starts by saying “I shot a Gold Medal this, and Silver Medal that…”

When it gets to this, it is no longer hunting.

But collecting.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69284 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I refuse to hunt ANY place that charges for the size of the animals.

I could not careless where it is.

Europe, New Zealand or anywhere else.

I find it so silly when someone starts by saying “I shot a Gold Medal this, and Silver Medal that…”

When it gets to this, it is no longer hunting.

But collecting.


X1000
 
Posts: 2665 | Location: Utah | Registered: 23 February 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
May be there is a decline in buffalo quality bred on farms and ear tagged in South Africa! rotflmo

In the wild there are plenty of old, hard bossed bulls - regardless of SCI’s silly measurements!

That is the only measurement I look for.

Old bulls with a hard boss.

Size is immaterial, as I have shot lots of bulls in the 44-45 range, and only one broken horned 49 inches.

I just love hunting buffalo!

Very easy to kill with a 375.

One seems to need several shots from 577 rifles to kill one rotflmo


Spot on! I've not killed near as many as Saeed, but I've shot over 20 buffalo bulls. Size was never my concern, it was mostly bait! Regardless, if a big / wide bull was present I wanted to hunt him and I did on several occasions! I simply think most folks have decided to enjoy the buff hunting experience more, and have been less concerned with "spread". Especially considering many of the big / wide bulls are often still soft?! JMO.


Aaron Neilson
Global Hunting Resources
303-619-2872: Cell
globalhunts@aol.com
www.huntghr.com

 
Posts: 4888 | Location: Boise, Idaho | Registered: 05 March 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
There is something to the once you have a big one, it becomes less of a priority. When I first started I wanted something 40” that was hard bossed- and got told that we would look for that, but that I would not be shooting soft bulls just to meet inches.

My first few hunts were in the quest to get that. Once that was done, it became do better... Now I say I’m going to keep at it until I get a 50”er... but freely admit that all that means is I’m not about to quit hunting them. My last several bulls have all been well under 40” and I’m looking for a scrum cap.

If quotas are appropriate, the herd quality should stay good.

I’d like to find a way to encourage folks to shoot the less spectacular bulls that we would like to weed out, and the only way is probably financial incentive, as much as I don’t like that tiered trophy fee idea. Mokore had the start of that with their lower price for sub 35” bulls, but it wasn’t consistent. We consistently hear folks griping about prices here...and no one likes paying more than they should. Unfortunately cutting quotas will raise prices and reduce the number of folks being able to hunt them.

The thing that got me was this seemed to be all based on the SA market, and that is somewhat artificial due to size pays there in many locales.
 
Posts: 11200 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
There is something to the once you have a big one, it becomes less of a priority. When I first started I wanted something 40” that was hard bossed- and got told that we would look for that, but that I would not be shooting soft bulls just to meet inches.

My first few hunts were in the quest to get that. Once that was done, it became do better... Now I say I’m going to keep at it until I get a 50”er... but freely admit that all that means is I’m not about to quit hunting them. My last several bulls have all been well under 40” and I’m looking for a scrum cap.

If quotas are appropriate, the herd quality should stay good.

I’d like to find a way to encourage folks to shoot the less spectacular bulls that we would like to weed out, and the only way is probably financial incentive, as much as I don’t like that tiered trophy fee idea. Mokore had the start of that with their lower price for sub 35” bulls, but it wasn’t consistent. We consistently hear folks griping about prices here...and no one likes paying more than they should. Unfortunately cutting quotas will raise prices and reduce the number of folks being able to hunt them.

The thing that got me was this seemed to be all based on the SA market, and that is somewhat artificial due to size pays there in many locales.


I agree with you... I have shot three but never focused on trophy size..Dugga boys..all say 38" and I've seen many younger bulls over 40-44"
But..to me it should be simple...increase total quota....(maybe considerably) and just shoot a bunch of "Management bulls" at a greatly reduced price. Incent people to significantly reduce the numbers of "less desirable" and "surplus" bulls just like we do here in the US with Whitetails...
A 36" 10yr old bull is exactly like the 8 point 6 year ol Whitetail.. hammer them...hammer them all...
 
Posts: 931 | Location: Music City USA | Registered: 09 April 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I suspect I m like many who wanted a really wide buffalo and over time and buffalo hunts ones priority change to enjoying the incredible excitement, thrill, and relief of getting close and shooting an old crabby dahka/ tsotsie bull staring you down. I shot a couple of 42” ones during exciting and hardworking hunts but then after shooting a wild 47” one in Namibia I chose to go for the experience although the one at Dinoseng in SA was disappointing. Next year I m not looking for spread but old buff and hiking and camping along the Klasrie river , like the old hunters, except they were hunting for elephant.
 
Posts: 485 | Registered: 16 April 2012Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
In the Early 1980's a paper was published by a senior section ranger in the KNP on the cape buffalo and trophy animal

In any given free range un hunted Buffalo population about 8% of the population is usually deemed trophy quality as defined by maturity sex and by size of horn defined by the minimums traditionally defined by Rowland Ward ( this is for purpose defining animals within the population as opposed to what a individual hunter may see as his trophy hunted )

This by definition at any time infers a finite number of animal that fall within this definition category.

The implication of this number cannot be lost on those who assign quotas.

The reason lies in what accounts for trophy size horn growth !

The most important factor is genetics ( ie a trait for big horns) with epigenetics playing a role in regional differences in size. We see size traits based on the biome in which the buffalo find themselves

If the genetic pool for large horns is depleted before buffalo can pass on their genetic on we run a risk in depletion of trophy quality. Now this does not just imply due to hunting but loss due to disease.

Bosses begin harden by 6-7 years and are fully hardened by 8-9 years while sexual maturity is reached by 3.5 years to 5 years. It is then the young bulls age 6 to 7 who mate with the cows during the wet season, whilst the older really big 12 year old bulls no longer mate the cows.

It is therefore important from a conservation perspective to hunt only old mature bulls.
 
Posts: 7857 | Registered: 16 August 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Here is one I took not along ago.I am going to have a shoulder mount done.His steaks were a little tough but still delicious

[URL= ]dagga[/URL]
 
Posts: 11651 | Location: Montreal | Registered: 07 November 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I've had several discussions with KNP people about reducing rates for those old bulls 34" and less. But none of them wanted to listen..... An area can only have so many animals, why keep the inferior (genetically) old animals around. Incentives people to hunt them and get them off the grass and out of the gene pool.

.
 
Posts: 42463 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of cal pappas
posted Hide Post
Outstanding buffalo, George.
One like this is a dream.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by shootaway:
Here is one I took not along ago.I am going to have a shoulder mount done.His steaks were a little tough but still delicious

[URL= ]dagga[/URL]


What a great trophy!

Knocks spots off all the silly SCI measurements, which make no sense at all, except for a "competition" clap


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69284 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
Outstanding buffalo, George.
One like this is a dream.
Cal

Thanks Cal.We picked up his tracks along a dirt road and then stopped right there for lunch and a nap under a berry tree.Then we started tracking in the afternoon.There was no visible soil under our feet just grass but our trackers were on him.Then I was the first one to see him in the long grass about 30yds away with his rear towards us.He then turned into the grass and disappeared.We tracked until the sunset but no sign.Richard said to call it a day and we headed back to the truck but without our trackers.Once at the truck I joked that our trackers had found the dagga and were waiting for us.I was right.The trackers called out and soon we were back on track but this time we got him.
 
Posts: 11651 | Location: Montreal | Registered: 07 November 2002Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
Buffalo hunting, more than any other type of hunting, seems to get all the weirdos out!

From the utterly stupid "I let the buffalo decide how to die", to the cut off shirt sleeved double rifle carrier "I never shoot them until my barrels touch them!"

Some of us just enjoy hunting buffalo, in any form it comes.

Following them for days, and never getting a shot.

Jumping out of the truck and shooting if one sees one.

Shoot them at arms length, or 400 yards.

It is called HUNTING!

And one takes what one gets.

And enjoys it. clap

I will leave the drama to the wannabees! rotflmo


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69284 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of cal pappas
posted Hide Post
Saeed:
How is "jumping out of the truck and shooting..." hunting?
Just wondering.
Also, who is the cut off shirt sleeved fella?
Cal
PS. Grouse hunting is on here in Alaska's fall and nothing, I mean absolutely nothing, is better than going afield with a nice English 12-bore and letting the grouse decide how it's going to die!


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
Cal,

I take hunting as it comes.

If I have to follow buffalo for days on end, I have no problem with it.

If I see a bull while driving, I have absolutely no reservations of jumping out and shooting it.


It is hunting.

And one has absolutely no control over it.

Of course, hunting ear tagged farm buffalo is a different matter altogether.

It cannot be called hunting as far as I am concerned.

I did go to South Africa, twice, to shoot farm animals, some from the back of the truck.

It is not really hunting, but that is how they do it there, and I loved every minute of it. clap


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69284 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of cal pappas
posted Hide Post
Thanks, Saeed.
With all of our differences and pissing and moaning, I think you're a gentleman.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Shootaway ( or do you prefer George ? ),
That indeed is a great trophy. Congrats.
Did Rich give you an estimate of the bull's age ?


Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing.
 
Posts: 2108 | Location: New Zealand's North Island | Registered: 13 November 2014Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 30.06king:
Shootaway ( or do you prefer George ? ),
That indeed is a great trophy. Congrats.
Did Rich give you an estimate of the bull's age ?


Thanks 30-06.If I recall correctly I asked him about one of the two I shot-I cannot remember which.The one pictured above was older.He said around 14yrs.
 
Posts: 11651 | Location: Montreal | Registered: 07 November 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Todd Williams
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
Outstanding buffalo, George.
One like this is a dream.
Cal


+1
 
Posts: 8533 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I've only taken 7 buffalo. 2 of them are over 41" with the best one being an old Dagga boy. chipped and peeling bosses, smoothed out, almost polished . 2 days of following him before finally catching up with him. For me, I'd rather take an old bull, they're switched on all the time, harder to hunt.


Guns and hunting
 
Posts: 1137 | Registered: 07 February 2017Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
If they could offer these hunts for around, let's say $3000,00 (daily rate for 5 days and trophy fee), I would think that they would get a lot of takers.


Offer a buff lower than the trophy fee?


I'm sure every outfitter and/or country has different methods of setting "trophy fees", but if you want to have effective "buffalo management" you need to offer an strong incentive for a paying hunter to shoot the less desirable bulls and/or cows.

Thinning out sub-standard bulls and barren cows is a big part of herd management. All people involved in the safari industry should recognize the importance of this in areas where buffaloes are over populated, and lower prices accordingly.

If a hunter is paying a premium for a "trophy bull", unless he/she is very rich, or has shot big bulls in the past, they are most likely want the best bull they can get, not a run-of-the-mill, average buffalo.

I realize from the outfitter/agent's viewpoint, they want to sell hunts, but offering "trophy buffalo" hunts where the hunter has almost no chance of shooting anything more than a 32" buffalo, is bordering on a scam IMO.

But as always, this is JMO.

BH63


Hunting buff is better than sex!
 
Posts: 2205 | Registered: 29 December 2015Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Why do inches come into it ?
As long it is an old bull and a good hunt = great trophy. The inches don't matter. If the bull is 32" and really old then its a trophy !
 
Posts: 186 | Registered: 28 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
JTEX and Saeed have it right, IMHO. I have only shot 4 buff. Hunting them, to me, is addictive. First safari, herd bull, about 35. Could not have cared less about the spread-it was about the hunt. Shot three buff in one trip-one "non trophy", one old cow (that hunt was great-getting in to herds and selecting the oldest, barren cow), and one over 40. FWIW I know several hunters, including me, who would pay $10K or so to hunt three "non trophies" just for the hunt. The Save seems to be heading that way, but for those operators who are smart and have plenty of buff, do what they do in the States and offer reasonably priced hunts for multiple "culls" and everybody wins.


"Never, ever, book a hunt with Jeri Booth or Detail Company Adventures"
 
Posts: 490 | Location: San Antonio, Texas | Registered: 09 November 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I know a place in RSA where they let the 36" bulls go for about $7500 all in. That's half price in today's market

Having said that, RSA has bigger things to worry about than buffalo with small horns. As in "land reform" ... after which there will be few buffalo at all.


Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC
BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris
Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns
VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear
 
Posts: 2934 | Location: Texas | Registered: 07 June 2003Reply With Quote
Administrator
posted Hide Post
And let us not forget the simple fact that buffalo hunters, who appreciate what that is, will never hunt one on a farm anyway!

Lion and buffalo on a farm?


No problems with plains game.

But never lion or buffalo.

These require a proper hunt in the wild.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 69284 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of cal pappas
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
And let us not forget the simple fact that buffalo hunters, who appreciate what that is, will never hunt one on a farm anyway!

Lion and buffalo on a farm?


No problems with plains game.

But never lion or buffalo.

These require a proper hunt in the wild.


How about elephant and hippo? I've seen these offered on private enclosures.
Cal


_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
1997 Zimbabwe
1998 Zimbabwe
1999 Zimbabwe
1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation
2000 Australia
2002 South Africa
2003 South Africa
2003 Zimbabwe
2005 South Africa
2005 Zimbabwe
2006 Tanzania
2006 Zimbabwe--vacation
2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
2008 Zimbabwe
2012 Australia
2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
2013 Australia
2016 Zimbabwe
2017 Zimbabwe
2018 South Africa
2018 Zimbabwe--vacation
2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
2021 South Africa
2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later)
______________________________
 
Posts: 7281 | Location: Willow, Alaska | Registered: 29 June 2009Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Hunting  Hop To Forums  African Big Game Hunting    Concern about declining Cape buffalo trophy quality

Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia

Since January 8 1998 you are visitor #: