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| One of Us |
I know a hell of a lot of Euros and U.S. dollars are pumped into outfitters' bank accounts every year. At the end of the season who benefits the most? The overhead of running a safari company is bloody expensive I know for certain. But at season's close do the owners/leasers make enough money to be considered wealthy? Somebody has got to be making out pretty good. Right? The booking agents that broker the deals are entitled to a certain percentage of the daily fees right? The good ones who book a lot of safaris do OK I'd imagine, but are any of them getting rich off this stuff? The PH's who toil for the clients, putting their life on the line in some instances, always seem truly gratified upon receiving a nice tip. That suggests to me their daily wages aren't substantial, nothing really to brag about. The taxidermists seem to be doing OK, but their overhead is sky high as well. Many often seem strapped for cash. For those who say the governments are getting rich, huh! Look at the respective economies of some of these countries where we hunt. Continent wide Africa is the poorest of all the seven. Oh yeah, one more group. The guys who produce the DVD's and write books I know for sure are not getting phat at this. The safari clothiers, accessory producers, gun makers? Are they lining their pockets? Perhaps the answer is, nobody is getting rich financially from safari hunting. I honestly don't know. Yes we're all "richer" from our experiences on the Dark Continent, but who really is taking home the lion's share of the dough? | ||
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I would say that the Governments make the most profit, as they have verry little outlay expense. Just because the "government" is making the money, does not mean it is benefitting the people. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I have spend a small fortune--------but I am richer for the experience  nothin sweeter than the smell of fresh blood on your hunting boots | |||
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I think the corruption in African governments is where too much of the money goes. My house is paid for, I can afford Africa every year or so and I have enough memories to last me a lifetime. I guess you could say I am. Rich | |||
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Like anything in life it is all relative. Compared to the average income of most southern Africans everyone from the camp cook to the Safari operator is making a fortune. The issue for most operators and PHs is that this isn't anywhere near what their clients make at home. They see what their clients have and want that instead of seeing what the average African has and know they are worlds better off. The average African wouldn't dream of taking an airplane anywhere matter less Dallas and Reno for the shows. If you talk to a lot of PHs they turn these trips into vacations and go places like Mexico while they are here. You'd need to be making 500 times the African's wages to do that. The average annual income in Zimbabwe is est at between $400-$1,200. In the US it is $45,000. So in reality is you tipped your PH $400- $1,200 you are giving him the equivilant of $45,000. So the answer is, to Africans they are paid like pro athletes, to Westeners they are scraping to get by. | |||
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There are no big bucks in the African hunting business - except for a certain few, and for them, in most cases, only at best for a couple of decades or so. I like to visit Africa for hunting purposes, and I will keep doing so for as long as I can, but I could not do business there. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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+1 Seloushunter Nec Timor Nec Temeritas | |||
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Ah shit, does that mean I'll have to postpone ordering my learjet again?  | |||
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The industry would be a classic example for a first-year economics student about supply and demand. The more money the outfitters make, the more enter the industry and the more fall out for an oversupply, until the next swing. Bottom line is that it is a fair living for those that do it well, not much for those that are finding their feet and good money for those who are exceptional. I doubt many are getting really rich. | |||
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In Tanzania it is very easy to see who is making the killing. It is those politically connected, who pay relatively small amounts for the concession, then they sub-lease it at an enormous profit to the operators. I know, sub-leasing is supposed to be illegal, but that is how things are run nowadays. | |||
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If one questions anyone in the industry they will surely get the answer "not me". No one makes big bucks there is always someone making bigger bucks, so it is all relative. I bet that canp cook is doing better than his neighbor etc. I hunted a property in RSA and the land owner had a 6 (I think) passanger plane to fly guests in and travel to Joberg on business he also had a little single seat plane to fly around the property checking game etc. At dinner one evening he related about flying to Joberg vs driving his Mercedes i e the cost about the same. He had a big laugh when he told of getting a speeding ticket on the way back from Joberg, it cost him a fine of about USD 3,000. Relatively speaking not a poor man living hand to mouth, but I bet he doesn't considre himself rich. I spoke of RSA and I would bet RSA is not in the relm of this discussion, eh. As to wealth I don't think this is a proper topic for Africian hunting after all I would bet most posters here are not living hand to mouth, if they are they have no business hunting in Africa. JMO | |||
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Do speeding tickets really cost that much in RSA? Seems a bit high to me  .....but I dunno, haven't gotten one.xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Peenuts compared to this one! | |||
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Good Q, here is my view. I think for established outfitters who have their own ranches, game etc, they have done very well. I would say that most established PHs lead a good life when compared to others in their countries. But at the end of the day it is a job. And most jobs make one a living but dont make you rich in Africa or here in the States for that matter! | |||
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Nowhere near. Most speeding fines are usually in the region of ZAR200 - 500 and one of ZAR1000 is a very big ticket. You can usually talk your way down a grade with the traffic cop and down another grade when you go to the traffic dept to pay the fine. Last one I got was originally ZAR500 and I talked it down to ZAR150. They're going to change the system to one where licence points are also involved but my crystal ball tells me that what's most likely to happen will the the traffic cops will just get richer. Karibu Africa!  Exchange rate is currently about US$1 = ZAR7.5 | |||
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I can bet that most of us who hunt in Africa could not afford to buy the 777 ranch. Yes they may not be millionaires but I agree with GeoffM24’s assessment 100% as it pertains to the Southern African countries. Aziz  | |||
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GeoffM24, There are (effectively) two separate ecomomies in Africa. The average income for a tracker or a cook etc might be/is in the region you mention but he probably lives in a shack or a mud hut, his staple food will be mealie meal and once his kids hit about 12 years of age, they'll be looking after the cattle or similar rather than going to school. The average PH is white, lives in a house, runs a truck, pays school fees, medical insurance and all the normal bills and believe me, that costs a helluva lot more than US$400-1200 per year. As much as I'd like to think PHs are paid like Pro athletes, that sadly isn't anywhere near the truth. Just the cost of a TZ PH licence and associated paperwork is in the region of US$6K per annum. | |||
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PH's and Outfitters, who do not own their own land or lease concessions - make ends meet. This profession is a labour of love - with low profit margins - however we have a healthy outdoor lifestyle - and get to meet great people, creating lasting frienships with like minded people, and share wonderful experiences ! Sure beats sitting in the traffic in a big city fighting to get to work/office each day !! Mark  Mark DeWet Mark DeWet Safaris - Africa E-mail: marksafex@icon.co.za  ... purveyors of traditional African safaris | |||
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Steve. As too speeding our last one was when rate was about 6 ZAR to 1 USD. Equaled about 20 USD. As to big bucks. There are operators that have large facilities that have made there money elsewhere and have hunting for the pure enjoyment. We were ,last year. on over 50,ooo hectars with excellent accomodiation,game managment and all new heavy equiptment. They allow a max of 30 hunters a year. No way ,even with large game bag,could 30 hunters begin to pay up keep. Tax write off ?... there are better. My take is that if property was paid for up front they can do ok,or if inhereted or they had a rapid paydown. The guy that uses other peoples property may not be doing much better.(I am thinking RSA) Interest rates there in 08 were about 11% and now over 6% for banks and mtg. rates above that depending on the loan. If somone had bot a ranch in RSA say in 04 they may have hit a home run on property appreciation. In this business no matter if it is guiding ,ranch facilities, etc. most do it for the love of our outdoor calling ,defray costs(ranch) and to get buy. We have been associated with many who are in the top and are making a living, just getting-by or doing OK. There are a few who are hitting a home run. There are better ways to make it big. So for the guy with all the planes ,look deeper ...chances are there was another career in the past. For the guys in the rest of sub-saharan Africa they too are in a game of constantly changing rules and political power plays. Example.. Leopard Ridge in Zam...Rosss deported and accused of trying to overthrow the gov't and some other got the concession. There are those who are in and would like to get out. Thank God they are out there so we can be there too. Just some observations. Elton Elton Rambin Mail/Ship: 1802 Horse Hollow Rd. Barksdale, Texas 78828 Phone: 479 461 3656 Ranch: 830-234-4366 Check our Hunt & Class Schedule at www.ftwoutfitters.com 4 Rules of Gun Safety 1/ Treat all guns as though they are loaded. 2/ Never point the muzzle at anything you do not want to shoot. 3/ Do not put your finger on trigger until your sights are on target and you are ready to shoot. 4/ Be sure of your target and safe background. | |||
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OK so many of you say it's an industry that functions through a labor of love, average profit margins and the pure enjoyment of the outdoors. What about the observers who describe safari hunting as the "Bloodsport of the Rich"? Is that an accurate portrayal? If the majority of posters describe themselves as middle class, decent income earners, barely better than "average joes," (and I'm starting to feel the makeup of this board is starting to be more reflective of a large percentage of safari-goers) let's demystify this notion! Safari hunting then is not the "Bloodsport of the Rich." Yes lotsa hunts in Bots and Tanz will run you over six figures, but if I'm correct most of us don't drop that much for the normal average 10-14 daY SAFARI HUNT. And furthermore if I hear you guys correctly, here in the U.S., and over there in Africa who are posting to this topic, maybe only a handful of guys, landowners, outfitters etc., are really getting wealthy at safari hunting. Shakari is this a fair synopsis? | |||
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Who's getting rich? Cabela's! Paul Smith SCI Life Member NRA Life Member DSC Member Life Member of the "I Can't Wait to Get Back to Africa" Club DRSS I had the privilege to fire E. Hemingway's WR .577NE, E. Keith's WR .470NE, & F. Jamieson's WJJ .500 Jeffery I strongly recommend avoidance of "The Zambezi Safari & Travel Co., Ltd." and "Pisces Sportfishing-Cabo San Lucas" "A failed policy of national defense is its own punishment" Otto von Bismarck | |||
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Moja: I admire the fact that you are a successful businessman outside of the hunting industry, but one thing I am really growing tired of is those in the industry like you who complain they are not getting rich, they never get a free hunt, and yet they seem to go on hunt after hunt. Those numbers ain't adding up... | |||
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SableTrail, Iv'e only been on one safari so far, my second will be this may. My wife and I are definitely not rich but we sacrifice in other areas to be able to go to Africa every other year or so. A 10 to 14 day safari is all I'm able to afford right now. A 21 day safari to Tanzania is something is a dream I hope to accomplish by my early fourties.  | |||
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Cabelas. Their stock price is about half of what it was 5 yrs ago and earnings over the same time.. no home runs there.. over the years. Qtrly earnings are up yoy this year compaired to last years industry earnings hitting wall.Net income over the years is down. Huntin trip rev.is small. Retail about 50%,direct 43%,financial 5% and last 1%.. quess what that might be. Elton Elton Rambin Mail/Ship: 1802 Horse Hollow Rd. Barksdale, Texas 78828 Phone: 479 461 3656 Ranch: 830-234-4366 Check our Hunt & Class Schedule at www.ftwoutfitters.com 4 Rules of Gun Safety 1/ Treat all guns as though they are loaded. 2/ Never point the muzzle at anything you do not want to shoot. 3/ Do not put your finger on trigger until your sights are on target and you are ready to shoot. 4/ Be sure of your target and safe background. | |||
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business is business the old rule of thumb--------80% of the business is done by top 20% of those in that business --so 20% of the companys are likely to be doing very well (normally) with the remainder 80% of companies just sqeaking out a living------if the rule is true.  seems likely true in the safari business nothin sweeter than the smell of fresh blood on your hunting boots | |||
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I don't speak for the industry, or in fact, for anyone but me, however: I'd say that the VAST majority of people involved in the industry don't make much of a living, let alone make a good living. Most people do it because they love doing it rather than with any expectation of big profits..... certainly that's the case with us and pretty much everyone I know who's involved in the industry. On the surface it might look like we make good money but the expenses of staying in the industry are horrendous and often, as soon as money comes in, it goes out again and very often a lot of the things westerners take for granted, simply don't happen for people in this industry. Pensions are a good example. I doubt that more than 10% of PHs can afford a pension plan...... which is why so many guys carry on working after their sell by date etc. Salaries vary but none are good. I seem to remember a PH posting recently that he was now earning the same as 10 years ago.You also have to bear in mind that some safaris don't make much money for a variety of reasons... for example, a buddy of mine was in the brown stuff a couple of years ago and (to coin a recent phrase on AR) the 'unwritten code' is you give help when it's needed. That hunt earned me about US$5 a day..... but you do what's right whether it's profitable or not. As to the question of who is making more serious money when compared to effort and expenditure.... maybe a very few agents and PSmith suggests, companies like Cabela's.... but precious few others. All that said, if I had the chance to live my life over again, about the only thing I'd change is that I'd have come to Africa earlier in my life. The fact is that safaris are expensive for everyone on both sides of the fence...... and frankly, when some bugger comes along and wants to screw you into a discount or asks for a donation etc, it really is a pain in the arse..... which is why I don't play that game. | |||
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AAW: Hey man thanks for the business acumen compliment, but you're interpreting my post incorrectly. I am not registering a complaint. I've been very blessed within the hunting community, and I'm now working on several writing projects. One of them is to explain the state of the safari industry prior to the recession and its impact upon it. That's all. This is not a bitch session. I'm am truly seeking valued input from AR members on the posted topic. One of my goals is also to find out what correlation is there in the safari industry to---status versus wealth. Some have status with no wealth. Some have wealth with no status and some have both. Let me reiterate, I am going somewhere with this topic. This is not me complaining about my situation. What I said above about DVD producers is a fact, and I am trying to elicit thoughtful input. | |||
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I don't think I'm qualified to give meaningful input about the financial situation of safari companies. On the part of hunter's finances I think you have a broad spectrum. I know some that are very wealthy and can afford whatever hunt they want. This is the any time any place crowd. You name the time and place and they'll be there because that's what and where they want to hunt. I know a lot more who like myself make very good money, but nothing obscene and are willing to prioritize the use of that money for safari hunting, double rifles, ect. This is probably the safari every year or every other year crowd. They could do a 100k Tanzanian hunt if they wanted every 2-4 years or they could do a safari to Zimbabwe every 1-2 years. I think this crowd is much larger than the first. And then there's a lot more people that have to make difficult decissions and budget hard to make their hunt or hunts happen. This is the hunt of a lifetime crowd......or after they go once...hunts of a life time crowd. They really budget hard to make a dream happen over a number of years. I don't claim these to be exclusive, but I think these groups cover a lot of people. Personal finances and financial decisions also play a big part in this. My financial situation as a single w/o kids twenty some year old doctor aren't the same as someone with my income, but has a wife, kids, mortgage, car payments, ect, ect. If I prioritize I could do a hunt every year or two. The other person may be an every 5-10 year person or hunt of a life time person for that matter. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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I don't know who got rich from safaris, but I can tell you one who got a lot poorer from safaris! ......................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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  Nice one!  | |||
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How many outfitters and PH's have retired from the industry weathly?? A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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AAW, Another voice here saying that I'm not bitching but most people would better off workng at Wal-Mart than doing what I do. There are definitely some nice perks that go along with being in the "Business" but those perks do not pay the bills. The people that I know that are doing very well in the safari business or appear to be are not doing it strictly from revenue received from safaris. Many have affluent backers that can afford a few million as play money. Others made money doing something before getting involved with safaris. Another group is involved in other endevours other than the actual hunting. Some long term safari operators have done fine as they have avoided the pitfalls of getting too far in debt and getting too big and spread out but wealthy they are not. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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No one. But it depends on your definition of rich. If having memories that do not fade, then we are all rich. If it means having money in the bank - most of us are rich beyond imagination to 90% of the world's population. Follow the money to see who keeps it in that business. It is a bit like a sports franchise - not many make millions but a lot of people live well. I have yet to read about anyone starving to death in the safari business. | |||
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I don't consider myself living hand to mouth, but my wife often make similar comments as to if I have any business booking another African hunt. I don't consider myself rich by any means, but I cut back on certain things such as driving the old pickup a few more years and such. That said...I would think that few individuals are getting REAL RICH on the hunting business, because I know the concessions are pretty expensive (or so I have been told). That plus other operating expenses probably takes a big chunk of the money I pay to the safari company. Therefore, I would follow the money to the people who get paid when concession areas are bid out, which I assume is the local government, which does not have an offsetting cost to them, other than possible poaching patrols and some administration cost (probably not much for that from what I have seen). Therefore why are the governments not getting rich from the safari business? Probably because many of our hunting destinations do not have a lot of other sources of income such as manufacturing,service industry, tourism, etc. Just my guess. Let me go and audit everybody's books and maybe I could do a report and tell everyone where the money goes. Could I do a little hunting on the side while I'm there?  | |||
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"Rich" is very relative - to your local economy and to what you are used to. I am "rich" in New Zealand compared to my time in India with senior management jobs. Within India I was "rich" compared to the millions of poor and I was upper middle class compared to millions of others! No I cannot afford an African safari, not for a few years...... I have posted my views on the matter here http://forums.accuratereloadin...561035521#5561035521 "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Sorry to hijack but average incomes are seldom used in any analysis due to anomolies and outliers. Median income is a far better measure of the 'norm'. If $45000 was median in the US that would be very good! I believe Canada's median (2006) was CDN$32000 (I dont have the data with me) and there costs tend to be higher unit-for-unit (i.e. item x is $5 in the US but is CDN$6 in Canada). | |||
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Definitely not me. Mike | |||
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With the Canadian exchange rate making the Canada $ less than the US $, the median CDN of $32,000 would be even less in US $, I guess it would be better to hunt caribou than elephants? I would think some Canadians hunt Africa. Those numbers for the US and Canada both seem low. | |||
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Cabela's for selling us stuff we really don't need but that keep us day dreaming with that upcoming hunt ??? L | |||
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My precious wife will soon be independently wealthy because of safari hunting. As a matter of fact, she's figured out how much hunting costs and she's started keeping score. Ouch! Will J. Parks, III | |||
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