Larry Shores sure this Guy can provide you the right Priced Charter for Tanzania

quote:

Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:
Larry Shores sure this Guy can provide you the right Priced Charter for Tanzania

He will also provide the trophy elephant to complete the big 4 on one license for $100k only before trophy fees.

Mike

Charters are indeed expensive but sometimes it pays not to stint.







Gives pause for thought hey?

How is it that here in the West and in Alaska you can charter for lot more reasonable prices?
Planes crash for many reasons
Nice scare tactics guys but no excuse

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
How is it that here in the West and in Alaska you can charter for lot more reasonable prices?
Planes crash for many reasons
Nice scare tactics guys but no excuse

There is a vast difference between America and Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
How is it that here in the West and in Alaska you can charter for lot more reasonable prices?
Planes crash for many reasons
Nice scare tactics guys but no excuse

I'm no expert on that neck of the woods and come to that, I don't claim to be an expert on anything but would suspect that just one factor that'd make a major difference is that aircraft there can serviced/overhauled etc without having to be flown to the next country or even further whereas in Tz, the aircraft would have to go to Kenya at least and in some cases probably South Africa.

The article does give me the idea to call my cluttered reloading and storage room "my research centre". I'll even insist on using the British spelling to provide an air of seriousness to my efforts there.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
The article does give me the idea to call my cluttered reloading and storage room "my research centre". I'll even insist on using the British spelling to provide an air of seriousness to my efforts there.

Quite right too.

In today's day and age, there is no excuse for Tanzania not having knowledge and competent pilots/mechanics doing maintenance and simple overhauls right there
I understand that African countries are very incompetent but still I don't consider it excuse
Tanzania simply rides the upper price market and as long as it works for them then it's OK with me
I just received offer for plains game package for $ 35,000 not including trophy fees
That's one country I won't hunt
I call it rape and pillage

I AM DOING a HUNT IN Cameroon in 2 weeks time just got pricing for one way charter into camp 12 000 euro!! and back another 12 000!! That is euro not USD!! I am obviously in the wrong business!!!

Simple rule if you want to get on one of these charter planes better make sure the owner is also the pilot or at least on the plane with you.

Best deal in African hunting are the airlines that gets you there for $1500.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
In today's day and age, there is no excuse for Tanzania not having knowledge and competent pilots/mechanics doing maintenance and simple overhauls right there
I understand that African countries are very incompetent but still I don't consider it excuse
Tanzania simply rides the upper price market and as long as it works for them then it's OK with me
I just received offer for plains game package for $ 35,000 not including trophy fees
That's one country I won't hunt
I call it rape and pillage

P'raps someone will pass your message onto the Govt and they'll pull their socks up.

Joking aside, the fact is there isn't such services available there whether people like it or not. - It's just the way it is and Africa being Africa, it probably won't change any time soon.

Tanzania has always been expensive and there are a variety of reasons not least amongst 'em, the massive distances, lack of facilities and even roads, the way the Reserves are set up and how good the hunting is....... and the Governmunt know that and don't hesitate to make the most of it.

quote:

Originally posted by StormsGSP:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
How is it that here in the West and in Alaska you can charter for lot more reasonable prices?
Planes crash for many reasons
Nice scare tactics guys but no excuse

There is a vast difference between America and Africa.

How about the vast difference between Zim and TZ for the same plane ?

I think people living in the West have absolutely no idea how Africa functions.

Has any of you tried to set up some sort of technical facility in Africa??

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think people living in the West have absolutely no idea how Africa functions.

Has any of you tried to set up some sort of technical facility in Africa??

Well, I have, and in Juba no less. We (Louis Berger) built, equiped and trained staff for a geotechnical laboratory for highways and buildings construction in 2005 if I remember correctly. It worked while we were running it; I have no idea what's its like today. Of course, once you hand it over to an African government administration the future of it is pretty much a foregone conclusion.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

How about the vast difference between Zim and TZ for the same plane ?

Bingo!

Also, to Saeeds point I think some people living outside of Alaska or remote areas of Canada have any idea how those places function. If one can charter into these places at reasonable cost, there is no reason Africa should cost all that much more. The same is doubly true of Zimbabwe. Are those justifying high TZ charter costs really implying that operating there is more difficult than in Zimbabwe over the last decade. Give me a break!

Suggest you look at the size of Zim compared to Tanzania and them look at the neighbouring countries of each of them and then consider where the nearest qualified engineers and service facilities are for each.

That's just one of the many issues but it is a very important one and it does make a very big difference.

Quite honestly, it doesn't make any difference how many people bleat about cost differences etc because it costs what it costs and all the bleating in the world won't change it.

If someone doesn't want or can't afford to hunt Tanzania then the answer is to hunt elsewhere because (unfortunately) the prices there ain't gonna change any time soon.

Unless of course they go UP!

Steve:

I can afford it and I ain't going. F em.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
Suggest you look at the size of Zim compared to Tanzania and them look at the neighbouring countries of each of them and then consider where the nearest qualified engineers and service facilities are for each.

That's just one of the many issues but it is a very important one and it does make a very big difference.

Quite honestly, it doesn't make any difference how many people bleat about cost differences etc because it costs what it costs and all the bleating in the world won't change it.

If someone doesn't want or can't afford to hunt Tanzania then the answer is to hunt elsewhere because (unfortunately) the prices there ain't gonna change any time soon.

Unless of course they go UP!

The problem is not the hunters - we have choices to go spend our discretionary dollars.

It's the operators in tz who now have issues selling their high priced hunts.

15k buff hunt with a 15k charter is a joke.

All this bs about one can hunt so much on a license is a joke too as we are seeing tz operators saying they will allow hunters to split a license - is that even legal.

I bet we see a lot more tz specials in the coming years.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Steve:

I can afford it and I ain't going. F em.

And I can't afford it so I'm not going.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Steve:

I can afford it and I ain't going. F em.

Damn I was going to go for a 15k double buff hunt if you picked up the 15k charter when you hunted for elephant

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Steve:

I can afford it and I ain't going. F em.

I don't blame you at all for feeling that way....... but my point is, whether we like it or not, the prices won't come down in at least the foreseeable future and probably never.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

The problem is not the hunters - we have choices to go spend our discretionary dollars.

It's the operators in tz who now have issues selling their high priced hunts.

15k buff hunt with a 15k charter is a joke.

All this bs about one can hunt so much on a license is a joke too as we are seeing tz operators saying they will allow hunters to split a license - is that even legal .

I bet we see a lot more tz specials in the coming years.

Mike

No.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

The problem is not the hunters - we have choices to go spend our discretionary dollars.

It's the operators in tz who now have issues selling their high priced hunts.

15k buff hunt with a 15k charter is a joke.

All this bs about one can hunt so much on a license is a joke too as we are seeing tz operators saying they will allow hunters to split a license - is that even legal .

I bet we see a lot more tz specials in the coming years.

Mike

No.

Steve - seeing a lot of offers of split license. Allows 2 hunters to split cost as well as charter. And it's illegal - nice.

Even the road transfers costs are really high.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

Steve - seeing a lot of offers of split license. Allows 2 hunters to split cost as well as charter. And it's illegal - nice.

Even the road transfers costs are really high.

Mike

Split licences have been offered for as long as I can remember but they've always been illegal. Split quota or reduced number of animals on each licence but with separate licences are not illegal and any sensible outfitter will choose that option rather than the former.

Ja. You're right, road transfers are expensive (sometimes for good reason, sometimes not) and also bloody uncomfortable but I guess any alternative is better than no alternative.

Charters are expense but what makes it worse is that the safari companies use your empty
Plane on both directions to take their stuff to into and out of camp

quote:

Originally posted by Joe-S:
Charters are expense but what makes it worse is that the safari companies use your empty
Plane on both directions to take their stuff to into and out of camp

They should split the costs but I think you have a zero chance of that.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Joe-S:
Charters are expense but what makes it worse is that the safari companies use your empty
Plane on both directions to take their stuff to into and out of camp

The safari business is just that, a business and if the client is to be in camp, he must be fed and watered.

Supplies could of course be bought in by truck on the dirt roads but breakages, manpower and additional vehicle costs etc would mean extra costs and extra costs mean higher prices. - It's a vicious circle.

Steve, this is not directed to you personally but...the hunting industry in TZ as a whole should be VERY CAREFUL to not bite the hand that feeds it!

It's not a huge pool of people who are paying those astronomical TZ prices...better be careful that they don't wake up one day and say, "I am paying a $3,500 Daily Rate and $25,000 Charter Fee?" Are you serious??

I think that if this extremely wealthy group of hunters got together and boycotted Tanzania you would see plummet.

Just sayin

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I think people living in the West have absolutely no idea how Africa functions.

Has any of you tried to set up some sort of technical facility in Africa??

Actually I am in Blantyre as I write this helping to set up a medical laboratory facility. Other than getting equipment through MRA, it's been fairly smooth so far.

Shakari and Leopardtrack
You guys are on it and I agree with you
Like Larry said. I'd like to go but No thanks No and the reasons are? ...

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
Steve, this is not directed to you personally but...the hunting industry in TZ as a whole should be VERY CAREFUL to not bite the hand that feeds it!

It's not a huge pool of people who are paying those astronomical TZ prices...better be careful that they don't wake up one day and say, "I am paying a $3,500 Daily Rate and $25,000 Charter Fee?" Are you serious??

I think that if this extremely wealthy group of hunters got together and boycotted Tanzania you would see plummet.

Just sayin

Quite right that it's not directed at me....... Firstly, I have nothing to do with the Tz Govt and secondly, I've been retired and out of the business for some years...... all I'm trying to do is explain that sometimes, some people have a very simplistic idea of African hunting safaris and explain why some things aren't as simple as they might first appear.

I agree that a boycott might change things but I don't think it'll ever happen any more than SCI would abandon the donations system........ I remember a time not too long ago when a certain PHA surveyed the membership and an overwhelming number of members voted to boycott the convention but next year, everyone was there as per normal and it's the same with hunters in Tanzania...... they know it's unique and enough people will always be willing to pay the premium.

Mind you, as I've said before, if the Steigler's Dam project ever happens and it's looking increasingly like it will, a large part of the SGR will be rubber ducked and that might well change things........ but every time that particular subject come up, everyone looks the other way and cops a deaf 'un.

There have been times I could not stop laughing when I was in Africa.I did not mean to be rude but at times my legs would go weak from all the laughter.The funniest time was when we all stood up before we ate at the dinner table and the waiter,cook and his staff came and announced in their accent in detail what we where going to eat.I could just not keep standing from the laughter.They stopped doing this for some reason.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by StormsGSP:

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
How is it that here in the West and in Alaska you can charter for lot more reasonable prices?
Planes crash for many reasons
Nice scare tactics guys but no excuse

There is a vast difference between America and Africa.

How about the vast difference between Zim and TZ for the same plane ?

Larry, the Tz outfitters have been dodging this question for years. this is a recurring topic with no answer other than greed on the part of air services. and i know for an absolute fact that at least some TZ outfitters get a kickback on charter fees( i was told this directly by one of them)....

Yup.

A particular plane in Zim is about 500 per hour. The same plane in TZ is about $1,200 per hour.

Lay all the BS you want on me about that . I ain't buying it nor am I buying TZ safaris. This year I am going to Zim, Australia and Argentina.' I am still going to pay less than a full bag 21 day safari in TZ.

The TZ government is entitled to make their decisions. I am entitled to make mine .

Good response Steven and I do understand what you are saying. Again, I know that you are retired and are NOT a TZ Govt Official

Fellas, I am not suggesting that hunters boycott Tanzania but I think it is safe to say that we are getting bent over, without lube, with these ridiculous Tanzania prices. I know that TZ is a remote country and logistically it must be a nightmare to fit a Safari but $3,500 for a daily rate....really?? Let's not even get into the ridiculous Govt Fee's and Air Charter costs.

All I'm saying is that if the golden goose suddenly died you would see prices plummet back to earth.

Ironically enough, even at these prices, I bet that TZ PH's are still only making a couple hundred bucks a day, and a master tracker only $5.00 a day if he's lucky.

Well I guess I've always been a contrarian. I love Tanzania. In my opinion, there is nowhere better or that offers more varied terrain or game. I will continue to hunt there as long as I am physically and financially able to do so.

As far as charters, it seems someone with the appropriate certifications and licenses should open a shop to service single and twin piston engine general aviation airplanes in Dar and they would make a fortune. It might, but probably wouldn't, reduce the cost of charters significantly.

Besides the need to have the aircraft serviced in other countries, the other reason for high charter costs is the distances that are often involved. A charter from Dar to the Selous for a single hunter and PH might only require a Cessna 180. While still dear, it's not exorbitant.

My last charter, arranged at the last minute, so that impacted price, was from western Tanzania to Dar. They used a Caravan for 2 passengers. I suspect due to range and availability of aircraft. It was rather steep, but there was no choice.

I personally like the road transfers because it allows me to see a bit of the country, but they can be rather tedious and tiresome. They are not cheap, but considering the cost of fuel, the use of a vehicle and the time of the driver, you can't say they are unreasonable.

But, it's time vs. money and that's often the same thing.

Some years back I was at a bed and breakfast in Harare chatting with a chap who had just flown charter for the season in Tanzania. He was a retired airline pilot. He told me that the safari outfit was very bitter that he charged them so much for the service - but then added on 100% on the client's tab ....

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
There have been times I could not stop laughing when I was in Africa.I did not mean to be rude but at times my legs would go weak from all the laughter.The funniest time was when we all stood up before we ate at the dinner table and the waiter,cook and his staff came and announced in their accent in detail what we where going to eat.I could just not keep standing from the laughter.They stopped doing this for some reason.

come on wondering why they stopped?
never had anthing bad to say about you but this time you shot yourself in the foot no?

luckily you do not have my accent when you read ...