Buck Naked,
I would say up to eighty percent of shooting in Africa would take place in bush land like within the bellow photo or even thicker SO the choice of a light weight bullet going at super velocity's really makes no sense even if the likes of Capstick recommended it.

The 30-06 will do it all and with great effect.

The 300WM will give you a bit more distance if you need it. I am now a fan of the 300 and have in my time seen many many animals knocked over with this calibre.

The 7x57 is another proven classic.

I'll second the nothing fancy 30-06 and 300 win mag. Finding ammo for these calibers in Africa is not an issue either.

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
I'll second the nothing fancy 30-06 and 300 win mag. Finding ammo for these calibers in Africa is not an issue either.

Personally I have always favoured a 30-06 and it has never faltered what ever the game.

I doubt any of you would be encouraging me to take my .375 Ruger if you saw it. It's an old pusher XTR 7mm RM that I rebarreled on a whim. I just wanted to try the cartridge out.

I'll just take one rifle and maybe a spare scope. If I have problems I'm sure I could get a loaner from the PH. Plus it'll save weight with the luggage.

Just out of curiosity why so few nods to the .308?

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:
Just out of curiosity why so few nods to the .308?

Possibly due to it being considered/recommended as a "lady's caliber" on another thread.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:
Just out of curiosity why so few nods to the .308?

Possibly due to it being considered/recommended as a "lady's caliber" on another thread.

Hmmm

quote:

Originally posted by Buck Naked:
I'll qualify this by stating that I've never been to Africa but I did hunt bison once and killed one with a 7mm-08, shot a moose in Canada, and have killed a number of cattle on the farm. All of these cattle like species were extremely easy to dispatch. Most of the cattle I shot with 22 shorts in the head at close range and they dropped like a brick so I can't understand how you think what Roy Weatherby did with his 257 is some sort of abberation. The buffalo in Africa are nothing more than a wild version of a cow.

Your first sentence, and the last sentence tells the whole tale!

If you want to see a PH in Africa roll his eyes, just watch him when you pull a WEATHERBY rifle out of the case for the first time in camp!

........................................................................

I've heard it more than once from an African PH that they prefer a heavier well constructed bullet over speed.

quote:

Just out of curiosity why so few nods to the .308?

Personally I love the 308 & have a new Tikka T3 that should arrive today.
I guess it's like this for me, a 243 will kill a whitetail & I have a couple of them, but I use much larger calibers for hunting them. I killed 1 with my 375H&H this past year.
Maybe it's just a macho thing, but I like using more gun than I probably need.
Likewise with bullet selection. Just about any bullet will take out a whitetail, yet I only use premium bullets.
When I have been to Africa I wanted the biggest & best that I could shoot well with the best bullet & the best optics I could afford.
The few lady hunters I know do not seem to suffer from "I need a bigger gun syndrome", whatever they shoot well seems to suit them just fine.
There, I solved the problem: men are gun nuts & just want an excuse to buy another rifle.

Cz 308 ,Mauser 300winch ,Mauser 243.

quote:

Originally posted by sheephunterab:
With many of the new ballistic reticle scopes on the market.....the benefits of a flat-shooting rifle really aren't that significant any more inside 600 yards. The 30-06 is a very capable 500 yard rifle with the right optics....and the right operator of course. The days of "Kentucky Windage" are long behind us.

I have a very accurate .308 Win that shoots 180 grain bullets. I shoot it at long ranges just about every week (I rotate other guns in the "off" weeks when it is being cleaned). It may not be the fastest, but with rangefinders, you don't need to worry about trajectory, and if you don't have one at long range you are pretty much guessing no matter what cartridge you shoot.

I would guess most guys who use a .300 WM for its flat trajectory sight it in around 300 yards, which makes it about 4 inches high from about 170 - 220 yards, which is the range at which a lot of animal are shot. Unfortunately, half your bullets are going to hit higher than 4 inches, resulting in a good chance of missing.

The 300 WM has the edge in energy and wind deflection, but an accurate .308 Win has more tolerance for wind error than an inaccurate 300 WM.

So my answer is take the one you are most confident in.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Buck Naked:
I'll qualify this by stating that I've never been to Africa but I did hunt bison once and killed one with a 7mm-08, shot a moose in Canada, and have killed a number of cattle on the farm. All of these cattle like species were extremely easy to dispatch. Most of the cattle I shot with 22 shorts in the head at close range and they dropped like a brick so I can't understand how you think what Roy Weatherby did with his 257 is some sort of abberation. The buffalo in Africa are nothing more than a wild version of a cow.

Your first sentence, and the last sentence tells the whole tale!

If you want to see a PH in Africa roll his eyes, just watch him when you pull a WEATHERBY rifle out of the case for the first time in camp!

........................................................................

I understand that you're just making a mean spirited little joke here for the amusement of your buddies at my expense. Since you highlighted in red the fact that I've never been to Africa I ask that you consider that Elgin Gates hunted all over Africa and the world with Weatherby rifles and cartridges.

Would you also consider him a fool?

Would you laugh at him when he pulled his Mark V out of its case?

How does YOUR African experience match up to someone like him? You pass yourself off as some sort of authority and ridicule me. How much experience do you have?

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
I doubt any of you would be encouraging me to take my .375 Ruger if you saw it. It's an old pusher XTR 7mm RM that I rebarreled on a whim. I just wanted to try the cartridge out.

I'll just take one rifle and maybe a spare scope. If I have problems I'm sure I could get a loaner from the PH. Plus it'll save weight with the luggage.

Load any round hot enough, and you will get a failure to extract. The Sako and claw type extractors will leave a hot load in the chamber. A Rem 700 type will either extract it, rip the rim off where the extractor bites, or break the extractor itself.

The whole issue of actions is way overblown IMO. Personally, my issues have been triggers and feed rails.

Let me see if I can help a little bit Buck.

Generally by the time you are hunting on safaris or have that interest, or for Marco Polo sheep and the like you have become somewhat more accomplished in a variety of things. Hunting being one of them.

Not unlike if you once drove a VW bug road car with a 4 speed and 70 Hp. But if you go to the 24 hours race and down with Porsche and start telling some of the top drivers and teams what you read and your experience in that VW road car, it probably won't get you far.

Many of these guys have hunted in a variety of places and have their own experience to rely on. Your host here on AR has been on more safaris and taken more buffalo than many if not most of those writers. He is probably up in the top percentiles of the client hunters of all time in Africa experiences. But you probably can't TELL him how to do it. But you could ask him . You see. He has probably taken a couple of hundred buffalo. On all kinds of conditions. There are others here too.

BTW he says he learns more all the time. I believe it as there are a lot of guys with something to share here. But hunters, and those on AR, can be a bit of a set in their ways bunch. And many here aren't afraid to get crosswise if they don't agree - and some of these things are certainly going to create disagreements.

As for me, I had and used Weatherbys. I never had any Africa problems but did have some guide in Alaska ragging about my choice. No matter. Had I had the high quality loading set up that I have today where I could have tailored my load better for more accuracy out of the Weatherbys, I would probably still have them. But in a fiberglass stocks as mine at the time were wood. Just something I came to like along the way in a hunting and using rifle.

As it was I had Winchester shotguns and lever actions and old guns so I headed off in that direction some to add to the herd, and because the Winchester rifles allowed more options to be gunsmithed should I require it. The Weatherby built Mark Vs don't allow as much work.

But I accept that Roy and Gates as well as Bell and others have shot animals with a 257 or a 300 or a 7mm that while interesting enough and a data point for their purpose, is not something I am going to do today. I would offer that when you and I are hunting some of the biggest game animals on Earth, that it is less theory and more practical application.

Just like there are only so many Mario Andretti's, Ayrton Senna's, Michael Schumacher's, Earnhardts and Pettys . . . there are only so many Roy Weatherbys, Elgin Gates, Harry Selby, Boddington, OConnor and Carmicheal, Bell or Selous, or Hemingway and Ruarks out there. They can by virtue of who they are and their accomplishments, plus time, training, and circumstance and by being there, do or try things that many of us more regular guys can't. But that doesn't mean we have to enjoy it any less. Indeed I enjoy it more.

That is about the best I can say.