Just watched a complete exercise in selfishness. This clown and his crew shot a Klipspringer at 600 yards in a 16 MPH wind.

Why? To get it on film? No respect for the life of an animal.

Losers.

I'm impressed you were able to watch the whole show....

Wonder how many they missed, or hit poorly, before getting the public version...

While I am not a fan of shooting animals at such great distance (unless you are shooting Charlie), this type of debate is where the anti's use divide and conquer and win.

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:
While I am not a fan of shooting animals at such great distance (unless you are shooting Charlie), this type of debate is where the anti's use divide and conquer and win.

...But the TV show doesn't?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
Just watched a complete exercise in selfishness. This clown and his crew shot a Klipspringer at 600 yards in a 16 MPH wind.

Why? To get it on film? No respect for the life of an animal.

Just because you're not talented enough to do it, don't assume no one else is.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
Just watched a complete exercise in selfishness. This clown and his crew shot a Klipspringer at 600 yards in a 16 MPH wind.

Why? To get it on film? No respect for the life of an animal.

Just because you're not talented enough to do it, don't assume no one else is.

Too many variables in his shot. And you're right. I'm not much of a shot. I only take sure things, or nearly sure things when it comes to taking a life.

Can you tell me all the wind holds and animal vital size? I'd be curious.

Hunting gimmicks are hated by the the general public and a lot of hunters.

Hunting for meat is well accepted - one of netflix most watched and trending show is on meat hunting and cooking wild game.

Most hunting shows do little to advance hunting or hunting rights.

Everything is hated by the anti-hunting/peta crowd but were are not really trying to change their wrapped minds.

Its the vast non hunting majority of normal people who consumer meat and use leather products are the ones we need to support hunting.

Mike

I just measured what I consider the kill zone on a Klippy in my Trophy Room. I'd say 6 to perhaps as much as 8"

I know I wouldn't be capable of hitting a 8 inch bull at 600 yards in a 16 MPH crosswind.

quote:

Originally posted by Emory:
Wonder how many they missed, or hit poorly, before getting the public version...

Often they will range a rock or something at the same distance then verify their drop on it, then take a shot at the animal. The former never is filmed or at least shown.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/hu...-1481316596?mod=e2fb

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/hu...-1481316596?mod=e2fb

Mike

Dang...

i really love long range shooting - paper steel prairie dogs crows gophers even politicians but no no no game

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:
While I am not a fan of shooting animals at such great distance (unless you are shooting Charlie), this type of debate is where the anti's use divide and conquer and win.

Absolutely. Like the bred lion hunting "debate".

There is limits to technology in hunting, but where the limit stops is up to us
Unfortunately in hunting just like in anything else, technology can downright ruin it in the name of success for any cost
We see it in magnum firearms and also in compound technology ( archery got lost in translation )
It's coming to a head collision down the line

your not much of hunter if you can only stalk over a 36" hold over

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
Just watched a complete exercise in selfishness. This clown and his crew shot a Klipspringer at 600 yards in a 16 MPH wind.

Why? To get it on film? No respect for the life of an animal.

Just because you're not talented enough to do it, don't assume no one else is.

Too many variables in his shot. And you're right. I'm not much of a shot. I only take sure things, or nearly sure things when it comes to taking a life.

Can you tell me all the wind holds and animal vital size? I'd be curious.

I didn't say I was talented enough to do it but that doesn't mean no one else is.

Long range shooting is not for me as I have alway enjoyed the pleasure of the persuit. Don't get me wrong, taking a shot at a nymbil little Chamois at up to 300m may be required but more than that is more like target shooting with too many variables and little chance of a sucseful follow up for me to consider it acceptable to shoot at Game at such distances.

Shooting at long range at live animals is a stunt, not an exhibition of skill. These dopes are using a ballistic computer to substitute for talent. At that range, it is too easy for the "target" to take a step during the shot sequence, turning a lung shot into an ass shot. What is the point of it all?

Interesting.

I like to get as close as I. I am not fundamentally opposed to a long range shot under the right circumstances.

I shot a sheep in August at around 550 yards. I would not have taken that shot with any wind and/or a lesser rest. I said no twice before we made the rest better.

Anything over "knife in hand" distance is unethical.
Throwing your knife, tying it to the end of a stick, or heaven forbid throwing that stick is unethical.

IOW the "it's to far for me, so you shouldn't do it" argument is even older than "the worlds oldest profession" is.

My dad thought anything over 100ys was impossible, while gramps thought anything over 50yd's was "stunt" shooting (dad used a 30-30, Gramp's a 32-20) and BOTH thought a 30-40 Krag was "to powerful" for deer.

IMHO, most hunters (including me) do not have the physical traits, skills, training, equipment,and practice for such long range shots.

However, our military winnows out the few that can and trains them as snipers. I know one such person whose post military and contractor career utilizes those skills and knowledge. At one range where we both shoot he holds the 500 yard record with a group of less that 1/2 inch.

He does hunt and teaches long range shooting for hunters. He also makes rifles especially for 1,000 yard accuracy. He is very likeable and knowledgeable and his skills are in constant demand.
I say, more power to him and wish him well as a fellow shooter and hunter.

quote:

Originally posted by AFRICAN LEADWOOD:

quote:

Originally posted by Wesheltonj:
While I am not a fan of shooting animals at such great distance (unless you are shooting Charlie), this type of debate is where the anti's use divide and conquer and win.

Absolutely. Like the bred lion hunting "debate".

So, discussing a television program is more harmful than the production itself? I'm a bit confused by that logic.

This topic is a slippery slope and I choose to stay out of this debate. Someone's effective range is a function of their training, their equipment and their god given natural abilities.

I've witnessed plenty of people that are shooting beyond their effective range at anything beyond the end of their barrel. .

One interesting aspect of it is the fact that it's very hard to judge the animal at great distance (there are ethics involved here beyond the simple ethics of the shot)
Also, any of us that have viewed animals in the scope at distance past say 400/500/600 + meters. Things look really SMALL.
I always love it in movies where they have a crystal clear steady picture of a target (usually moving) where they can see the pupil in someone's eye at 1,000 meters

No worries Steve and I have had some miss Buffalo at under 100 yards hence the margin for wounding is much greater.

For the hunting of Lechwe and Sitatunga shooting is fairly long range and hunters are advised to bring calibers to suit.

Well now we have this topic being discussed in two areas, here and in the American Hunting topic area.

In both the "E" word is getting tossed in occasionally. Another word that has surfaced is "Sniper".

I really do not view these type discussions concerning the various "Hunting" methods others use or other hunters individual concept of "Ethical Behavior" as giving fuel to any of the anti-hunting groups, but as wedges dividing hunters.

To me this is one of those issues that reminds me of a line from some movie I watched, "Just because a person CAN do a thing, SHOULD they do that thing???".

Absolutely Randall
Like I said earlier , one day, the technology will do us in if we don't protect hunting as it is " Hunting "

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Well now we have this topic being discussed in two areas, here and in the American Hunting topic area.

In both the "E" word is getting tossed in occasionally. Another word that has surfaced is "Sniper".

I really do not view these type discussions concerning the various "Hunting" methods others use or other hunters individual concept of "Ethical Behavior" as giving fuel to any of the anti-hunting groups, but as wedges dividing hunters.

To me this is one of those issues that reminds me of a line from some movie I watched, "Just because a person CAN do a thing, SHOULD they do that thing???".

Hi Randall, Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Lets just leave the "E' word out of it and just focus on the skill required.

Is anyone on this forum, capable of consistently hitting an 8" bull, at 600 yards, in a 16 MPH crosswind? Pick any of your favorite long range specific chambering.

I'd like to hear AAZ's opinion on this. He's a long range guy and seems pretty knowledgeable.

I would also like for someone to post the firing solution. If I see this correctly, A 1" gun is off by up to 6 inches at 600 in perfect conditions? Is this the correct manner in calculating it?

I know what you are saying Steve. I have seen the show. Some of these shots are just insane. 800-900 yards or more. They could clearly get closer.

I took a long range shooting school in TX. Honestly, it is surprisingly easy once your rifle is dialed in. I was able to hit a grapefruit sized target every time at 600 yards. It is all about knowing how far one is shooting and where your one's rifle hits at that distance.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I know what you are saying Steve. I have seen the show. Some of these shots are just insane. 800-900 yards or more. They could clearly get closer.

I took a long range shooting school in TX. Honestly, it is surprisingly easy once your rifle is dialed in. I was able to hit a grapefruit sized target every time at 600 yards. It is all about knowing how far one is shooting and where your one's rifle hits at that distance.

I like shooting far as much as anyone. I have gong a buddy who developed it in Boise sent me. Its called a "Guns Gong Crazy." I have a 50 BMG and love to take long pokes. But I see no value in making the target a live game animal.

My opinion, if they want to shoot stuff that far, go ahead. I've wounded enough stuff over my hunting career that I don't ever want to increase the odds of that feeling and the issues it causes for the animal(s)

Merry Christmas to you and yours Steve, hope all is well in your world.

I would be more than happy to see the "E" word left out of all of the conversations on here concerning hunting of any kind.

Unfortunately, you, I and pretty much everyone else that hangs out here knows that keeping the "E" word out of these discussions is an impossibility.

It has something to do with our passion toward hunting and our personal beliefs of Right and Wrong.

It's NO DIFFERENT then an IDIOT on The TV Show Drop Zone took an UNETHICAL 100 yard Bow Shot at a Mule Deer!!! As the long range shooting appear's more and more on TV shows I have noticed MORE and MORE gut shot animals and some aren't even showing the hits on the animals!!! Talk about a Black Eye for the Hunting Community!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I know what you are saying Steve. I have seen the show. Some of these shots are just insane. 800-900 yards or more. They could clearly get closer.

I took a long range shooting school in TX. Honestly, it is surprisingly easy once your rifle is dialed in. I was able to hit a grapefruit sized target every time at 600 yards. It is all about knowing how far one is shooting and where your one's rifle hits at that distance.

I like shooting far as much as anyone. I have gong a buddy who developed it in Boise sent me. Its called a "Guns Gong Crazy." I have a 50 BMG and love to take long pokes. But I see no value in making the target a live game animal.

My opinion, if they want to shoot stuff that far, go ahead. I've wounded enough stuff over my hunting career that I don't ever want to increase the odds of that feeling and the issues it causes for the animal(s)

I agree with you. I much prefer close shots. However , if a long shot is all I have and all I am going to get, I will take the shot under the right circumstances.

Gents, this is really much ado about nothing. There is only one question to ask yourself, is it legal? Of course it is. Quod erat demonstrandum. End of discussion. Stated another way, is there a law against taking questionable shots or shots with a reasonable probability of wounded and lost game? Of course not. Quod erat demonstrandum. End of discussion. We need to move past questioning questionable practices, we need to stand united and have the back of the person representing the lowest common denominator of hunting practice. Someone wants to take a poke at a small antelope at 600 yards with a 16 mph cross wind . . . God bless them . . . let's stand with them instead of questioning them.

quote:

let's stand with them instead of questioning them.

How many do you believe will voluntarily do that?

My thought on long range deliberate shooting is that after a certain distance, only those so significantly skilled should be trying and they should know they will hit.

If they choose to take a shot over 600, that is their tag, they are done.

This puts the ethics of it with the hunter, along with him being responsible for making a proper decision.

I too have seen a bunch of gut shot dead animals around after long range folks have been shooting. I have heard from some guides that the shows leave a large number of animals wounded because they either can't tell it was shot or they cannot follow it up in a timely manner so it is lost.

Something has gone wrong with hunting...it's not the same type of people I grew up around. The crowd has changed and not for the better.

Just my opinion, nothing more, but the concept of Competition has had the biggest detrimental effect on hunting during the 50 years I have been hunting.

It may simply be a symptom of the greater disease of people wanting to be viewed as a winner at something. With the Long Range hunting aspect, throw in the glorification in this era of the Military Snipers in the various military conflicts around the globe.

Some folks have merely taken the step from moving from the shooting bench and punching holes in paper, ringing gongs, setting off a charge of dynamite, to killing animals. It appeals to a certain mind set and part of that mind set involves a desire to compete and win, that not all of us share or believe in.

To me personally, and YES, I have wounded and lost game at less than 100 yards, anyone that has hunted any length of time that is honest will admit to having lost an animal at some point in time, that is just part of the equation, stuff happens.

To me however, purposely setting up and taking shots at such ranges, all those involved should make every effort possible to make sure anything shot it is either cleanly missed, or if not instantly killed but wounded, is tracked down and finished off.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
No worries Steve and I have had some miss Buffalo at under 100 yards hence the margin for wounding is much greater.

For the hunting of Lechwe and Sitatunga shooting is fairly long range and hunters are advised to bring calibers to suit.

I missed a hippo at less than a 100 yards