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Jeff, I'm sure you would love Rainer's style of hunting.  | |||
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I sat down with both RHS and RJ at SCI this past month and sent my deposit to RJ....need I say more? Iceman www.wildernessspiritwoodworks.com | |||
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Yellowstone, Iceman and I got a chance to meet your friend at the screening of the video (which was the segment about his hunt). The hunt and video were fantastic, and your friend (and his Dad) seemed like GREAT guys. I really enjoyed chatting with him after the screening. Cheers Canuck | |||
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"clamboring around on the top of this mountain" I've clambored around on the top of this mountain. The top of this mountain is well into the Burko concession (RHS). The road up to the top was built by RHS and well into RHS area. I have no connection to RHS or anyone else in TZ, but this is just the truth. If I were with RHS, I'd be pissed. After paying for the concession and physical upgrades, like roads, to have the area poached would be upsetting. | |||
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And did you ask each about the boundary of the block ? I would say not. | |||
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This correct. It does not matter to me what side/company you choose to hunt with or defend as the block owner. The facts are the facts. Choose to ignore it as you wish. If you are hunting with either company in the area and the verdict comes down that it belongs to the other, someone is losing their trophies. It will get sorted out over time and you may get your trophies back, but it will be sometime before that takes place. If anyone really wants to know for sure if I know my facts, email RJ and RHS and ask them the details. If there is no dispute then you will find out for sure. Then you can come back here and rip me. And I would deserve it. On the positive side, anyone that has a dispute with Mrs. Niavasha with regards to the wildlife department has a long road ahead. On the other hand, if the judgement goes against her and Intercon, that would make all trophies taken there, poached trophies. That could possibly lead to Lacey Act problems that do not easily go away. Perhaps a lawyer could weigh in on that side of it. After I posted, it started to become a small issue about my post count and who I was, and if I was telling the truth. As I said, take it for what it is worth to you. Hunt with who you choose. It's not an issue for me. I am not the one that could/might have their trophies confiscated. The thread was posted about Mr. Josch's mountain buffalo hunting and I commented that he was not hunting in his own block. Believe it or don't, . . . . . I don't care which you choose. | |||
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You need to understand that to most if not all of us, you are an anonymous internet poster who calls himself "The Shadow" and claims that he "knows." Anyone not skeptical of such a source should have a full time nanny. But if your information is true, a prospective hunter would certainly be better off knowing it before booking with Mr. Jösch. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Perhaps this is the reason I am the Shadow. Now that I have posted what I "know", perhaps someone would be good enough to post up emails they receive from RHS and RJ as to any contention about who owns what. As I said previously, if I am incorrect, I should be ripped. If others are incorrect will they say they were incorrect. Or does it only work one way ? | |||
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The Shadow Knows:
" Mrs. Naivasha " ?? | |||
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Yes. | |||
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It's pretty clear that this area is disputed and that one party is imfringing on the other. "you are an anonymous internet poster" OK, but it's pretty clear this individual is either with or close to RHS. Now, boys and girls, take about 3 steps back and look at this. On one side you have RHS, one of the most respected companies with multiple concessions, millions of dollars invested, and a a long-term reputation. On the other side you have "Intercon." Can you tell me please who the head PH of Intercon is? what about his reputation? Isn't it true that they are merely owners of their concession and sublease out time to independent PH's. In case you didn't know it, building tracks up mountains isn't easy. Just who do you think built the gd track up there, Intercon or RHS? Or RJ?? Do you seriously think that a PH who leases a concession on a part-time basis is going to fund such a thing?? It is one thing to sneak into an area and poach and quite another to build a track in someone else's area. (On one of my trips to Burko they had just finished this track.) Now boys and girls, let's continue. On this side you have RHS, with a long term reputation and millions of dollars invested. Do you seriously think they would jeopardize this by poaching one area?? On the other side you have RJ, who is just a suitcase and a plane ticket away from leaving the country. Just who do you think would have the most to lose by poaching?? If you have any gd brains, use them. | |||
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I was under the impression that she was dead and buried, along with her husband. | |||
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Clear from what? Not from this thread. It seems clear that each of Intercon and Robin Hurt Safaris has a hunting block that includes part of the same mountain. It also seems clear that Intercon sublets Cape buffalo in its block to Mr. Jösch. It's also abundantly clear that two anonymous internet posters (no offense intended, just stating the facts) are claiming that Mr. Jösch has trespassed onto RHS's block, and killed buffalo in that block, while hunting on the mountain. One such poster is claiming that RHS has filed a complaint with the Tanzanian wildlife authorities, and that Mr. Jösch will be asked to "vacate the mountains in which he currently hunts." Based on this thread, there's no way to know if these claims are true. Yet they constitute very serious charges. I'm not saying they're not true, but I am suggesting that they ought to be backed up by people willing to ID themselves. Not sure, and not clear to me, why those making these claims are so reluctant to be more direct and less anonymous. EDITED TO ADD: I have emailed a link to this thread to Rainer Jösch. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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And someone should forward his reply to RHS, just to get both sides of the story. | |||
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"Shadow", or whoever the hell you are?? No question, some of, or all of, what you say, could be true? I for one certainly don't know the facts. What I do know however, is nothing shows less charcter in a "MAN", than hiding behind an anonymous screen name, and bad mouthing someone's reputation. Especially when said person, has no idea its even going on. Since you have taken such a personal issue with RJ over a public internet forum. Perhaps you can now snatch your balls out of your wife's purse, and present your name/facts to this forum, and give RJ the courtesy of looking him in the eye, while you slander his name/livelihood! Fact is, I don't know RJ, never met him, never hunted with him, don't know anyone who has. Just happen to think you Mr. Shadow, are a "chicken-shit".  | |||
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Well, you should have some clue, didn't you hunt with RHS ? I mean, you should at least know how to check to see if I'm correct or just full of crap.
You mean an anonymous name like loud-n-boomer or safari-lawyer or 375LVR to just pick some names at random. You mean like that? What difference does it make if you know who I am? It should only matter if I'm telling the truth. And as I have stated before, if I am not correct, I should be ripped here. But it looks like I'm getting ripped by you before the verdict is even in. So, maybe the truth does not matter that much to you. Who knows? Regarding his reputation, did you miss the post above where Mr. Josch is geting an email about this post ?
I have no issue with Mr. Josch. All I said was he was not hunting in the block he says he hunts in. My real concern was for anyone that hunted with him. If he is declared as hunting in Intercons block, GREAT !, no problem. If he is declared a poacher (there is no other way to put it). You as an agent Mr. Neilson should have an idea of what would happen. Please relay your thoughts as to what would happen to any client trophies that had been taken by hunting in a block not designated on your license. I think you know very well what would happen.
For what purpose. As I have posted earlier, I have seen plenty of people treated rudely by posting facts or opinions when it was really uncalled for. Why, because they differed from someone else's opinion that had a higher post count. Either what I say is true, or it is not. If I tell you where to find me, will that make my facts "true'er"? As I have said, believe it or don't. Your choice.
I have.
Does that mean I'm not getting any more brochures from you ?  | |||
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It will be too bad if it is all w/in RHS area....they'll ruin it by punching it full of roads, as they apparently have on the side of the mountain that is undisputedly theirs. The major appeal of hunting the mountain with RJ is that its done on foot. Seems everyone else with mountain buffalo has already punched roads all through their areas. | |||
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 Thanks! Brian Clark Blue Skies Hunting Adventures www.blueskieshunting.com Email at: info@blueskieshunting.com African Cape Trophy Safaris www.africancapesafaris.com Email at: brian@africancapesafaris.com 1-402-689-2024 | |||
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I was there with Iceman. The blocks came up in conversation, but there was no hint of a dispute. Just that the blocks shared a common boundary, and that one had one side of the mountain and the other side had the other. The RHS guys were very complimentary of RJ's operation and actually recommended RJ for the full blown foot safari experience. | |||
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I don't think things like this would be 'aired' in public. There is no benefit for either to do so.
DS in Arusha is another. | |||
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Dear Mr. Knows: I ain't got a dog in your fight, but my proper name is on everything I post. See below. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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Sorry, I don't read a lot of posts in this section. I apologise for the error. I was just trying to make a point. | |||
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Nope, never hunted with RHS! "Shadow", safari-lawyer and the others you mention, did not come on this PUBLIC forum simply to slander others, and do it anonymously. My only issue is with you, doing this anonymously, and doing it in public. I agree, if true, trouble for all involved. In this case, I don't necessarily disagree with the message, but the messenger and the way he's delivering it. You decided to jump into the mix here on a public forum, and provide info that if true, could be illegal/unethical, etc. So how about providing full disclosure, so then all the cards are on the table? As for the brochure, I'm fairly certain I do not have "The Shadow Knows" on my mailing list! | |||
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Sorry, thought you had. Was it Ramoni ? Doesn't really matter.
You are incorrect, that is not the reason. Slander has to be incorrect information. So, you assume I have posted information that is not truthful. However, you have no idea who is correct, but you have come in with your verdict of slander. Amazing.
You'd be surprised | |||
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Shadow - If this is how you prefer to handle this sort of issue, I guess that's up to you. Maybe it makes you feel better to bring down those you envy? Regardless of your reasons, certainly there are better ways to deal with your concerns. "Slander is to provide in-correct info", as you put it. What proof have you given besides an anonymous name, and your story, to prove you've done otherwise??? Nothing, zero, period!! So far you've just told folks of RJ's wrong-doings, and then expected us all to believe you. Well, if you're right, then show the proof!!! If you can't, or you won't, for god knows why? Then lay-off a guy's reputation/livelihood, its simply un-professional, and frankly, pathetic!!! | |||
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Why would I envy him? Someone that is (in your mind, possibly) breaking the law is no one to envy. If I was to envy anyone, it would be one of the larger safaris companies. But I don't envy anyone.
Ok,, hows this. There is some outfitter hunting in Mto Wa Mbu up in the mountains for buffalo that is not hunting in the block he subs from Intercon. How's that? Better?
And what knowledge do you have you to prove Mr. Josch is not hunting in RHS's area? And I am incorrect?
I don't have the GPS coordinates right here at my fingertips. And even if I did, how would you know they were correct ? How would you know?
Oh, it's ok to poach game, as long as you don't get caught. OK, I get it. You should have been a Tanzanian game scout. Do you encourage your clients to go with Outfitters that are trespassing and poaching in others hunting areas ? I would hope not, yet you condone it for others, AS LONG AS THEY DON"T GET CAUGHT. Come on. You keep nagging at me, to prove my facts. Why don't you just shoot off an email to the two companies and post their replies here? does not make sense for me to do it. You'd just say I was slandering Mr. Josch again. | |||
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TSK, I think you're missing the forest for the trees. No one is saying you're wrong or lying for that matter. You may well be right. What we are saying is that it's in poor taste when some anonymous person shows up and makes negative posts about an outfitter on the internet in front of his potential clients without disclosing who you are or allowing the outfitter to defend himself. VERY poor taste. Yes you are right. RJ has been notified and will likely chime in, but no thanks to you. You were previously content to rip him on here without his knowledge. You may be right and if you are I appreciate that you brought this out, but you chose a rather decidedly shabby way of doing it. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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Let me see....respected outfitter who is well spoken of by the person he is supposed to be poaching from or anonymous internet person who, according to a Tanzania resident earlier in this thread, is using a dead woman as a reference. I just don't know who to believe...  ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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And flogged it. I for one would love to hunt on a Masai Mountain and would like to know that it is a legal hunt. However, I do not think its your place to slander RJ and to do it anonymously. Perhaps RHS are the ones that should bring this up if they have an issue or have they asked you to do this for them? What about Innocent until proven guilty? No doubt this will come out as I doubt RHS or any company for that matter would give up hunting areas and quota to a poacher. | |||
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 Spoken like a true gentleman hunter.....  Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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I have no connection to RHS safaris other than hunting with them. I have the same connection to Intercon. Had good safaris with each. | |||
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Everyone has a choice just like you. Believe it or don't. As I said, it is not me that will have their trophy confiscated should anything go bad. So, take it for what it's worth to you. Should you go, and it does go bad, don't be the one coming here moaning on and on about trying to get your stuff back from Tanzania. You want to go, go. I wish you all the best. | |||
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The offspring live on....... and there is a "Mrs Naivasha" amongst them. "...Them, they were Giants!" J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset | |||
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For all to see here. I know and have hunted with Mr. Josch. He is a knowledgeable, good professional hunter. Anyone looking for a good ph could do a lot worse. However, this has nothing to do with his abilities as a hunter. | |||
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Shadow - As Brett says above, you have totally missed the POINT!! Re-read his post, maybe my position in this matter will eventually dawn on you, maybe?? | |||
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All controversy aside, I do not think a mountain buffalo hunt is good for a firt-timer. For those of you who have Saeed's recent video, his exploits on Mt. Gelai are interesting. Beautiful scenery, tropical boubous, bushbuck barking, etc. Damnably frustrating hunting, though. Be prepared for the fact that you may never even see a buffalo or that if you see one, it may be across a valley, and you can't even get close enough for a shot. Physically, it is demanding. That 10# rifle gets awfully heavy when you're going uphill at altitude. Don't even consider this hunt unless you are in excellent shape. This is a hunt where you alternate between "gawd, and I'm paying money for this!" and "gosh, isn't this fun". The person who goes on this hunt has to be fully prepared to come back empty handed. Most first-time hunters would be very disappointed, whereas someone who has been on a few trips can still enjoy it for what it is. | |||
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Shadow and everyone else, It was never my intent to unleash such a muck storm as this. My point was and is that one needs to back up what they say with some kind of factual evidence. I made a point of stating that I was not disputing what you said. What is needed is dates and or gps coordinates. Maybe there is somme other substantiating evidence. It is not about wether or not we believe you. It is about credibility. I dont understand why you feel the need to remain anonymous but that is your choice. Maybe you are afraid of legal or other retributionMaybe you are just a private person. I dont know. The are only 2 things I ask for. One is if possible let people know who you are and as such add credibility. If you do not feel you can do that for whatever reason I will respect that as well. In that case however you need to give us enough facts to go on. You have done part of that by telling us who the adjacent holder is. It is obvious there is a dispute and some controversy here. What is not apparent is who is doing what to who. Also not apparent is your motive in all of this and your relationship if any to either party. Even the last statement is not importantwhen compared to just plain facts without all the emotional baggage that has been generated. I dont hide behind a screen name and am easy to find. If you wish to discuss this privately please pm me. Mike Happiness is a warm gun | |||
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Amen to this!! Shadow: either provide gps data (where Rainer Joesch hunted and of the neighboring concession) or please be silent. And if shadow does not come up with facts, then please please let us stop this discussion!! Cheers, hans  | |||
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An excerpt from a message - 19 February 2011 The boundary issue between Naivasha and RHS is indeed being looked at within the Game Dept., I have verified this. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - As previously stated, I am not telling anyone not to go hunting with Rainer Josch. Do your "due diligence", make an informed decision and book with whom ever you like. There is enough information here for you to contact not only the two companies involved, but people "on the ground" in Tanzania. To those that want the GPS coordinates, what good would that do you in making a determination of whose block it is? Another poster said he was sending this thread to Mr. Josch. Perhaps all should wait and read his response. There has been a complaint filed. As I have posted, I have been to the area discussed with both companies. I happen to believe the area to be in RHS's block, but it does not matter what I think. It only matters what the wildlife department says, even if the block GPS'd in RHS's area. A dispute long ago was settled by the wildlife department between two companies by moving the GPS'd border back 5 miles equally in to each companies block leaving a "DMZ" so to speak. | |||
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So by this post you do not know a damned thing other than there is a dispute. Using the information you have provided anyone booking with RHS should be very careful as they may be hunting on RJ's concession and US citizens could face a possible Lacey Act prosecution. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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