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We may have some living legends on the this web site - Saeed, Larry Shores ect. Guy who have hunted and shot a lot of stuff in Africa. Don't think they are going to be many more in anyone starting to hunt Africa today. http://www.photius.com/rankings/world2050_rank.html These numbers are terrifying. Look at population growth from west Africa (Liberia, Burkina faso, Nigeria, Congo, Ethiopia, Somalia). In another 35 years Africa population wise will be changed. Mike | ||
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I first went in 1988. The change of population is shocking to me. You could be right. I think the continent will implode. The do gooders are making it worse not better. Legend? Not a chance! | |||
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I first went in 78. Bulawayo was really a pretty town,clean and alive. It is sad now compared to then. I don't think African hunting has a bright future but I hope so. | |||
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Don't count yourself out too fast Larry. You are held in very high regard by most if not all on this site. If you want to talk about all time African hunting legends still living I would rank the top 3 as follows. 1) I believe Andrew Holmberg is still alive and living in Denmark. 2) Harry Selby 3) Adelino Serras Pires | |||
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Larry, nice that you are being modest but it's true! | |||
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Holmberg lives in the south of Sweden. Born 1918 will be 97 in May. | |||
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Thanks for the correction. Not even close with Holmberg as the greatest living African Hunter. His clients took 63 elephants with I ivory over 100 lbs on each tusk. Personal best was 141. Held the record for the biggest buffalo 58" that he took personally. Pioneered safaris by camelback into the NFD of Kenya. Hunted throughout the glory years of east african hunting. May go down as the best East African Hunter living or dead. Enough said. | |||
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I think this was really supposed to be about population explosion . However, it seems that this has taken a turn. There are some guys out there who most have never heard of. Their exploits are nothing short of amazing. In 2008, I had the good fortune to spend 3 days with just such a gentleman. His name is Ray Makwehe. He has taken over 2,000 elephants as an elephant control officer in Hwange. This guy was amazing. I loved every minute of it. | |||
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Yes I turned the discussion a bit Larry but I thought it would be more enjoyable to discuss the living legends rather than be depressed with population explosion. In 1991 I met Adrian Reed in Vic Falls who had also cropped 1500+ eles in Wankie. I also met another gentleman at the bar in Vic Falls who held the record for the largest elephant taken in Rhodesia...132 lbs. Can't recall his name... | |||
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It's only 27 years back that Larry went to Africa the first time. I am pretty sure Saeed is in the same 1980s time frame, as are many other members here. If we go forward 27 years - 2042 - we are sitting on Nigeria with 250 mil. people. These demographic projections are pretty accurate - you need something dramatic to change them - like Aids in Botswana. Check out Yemens population - over 100 mil. I saw this and emailed and texted a few guys I hunt with in Africa that the future is producing protein - most likely from fish farming to feed this mass. The wildlife will get decimated. Mike | |||
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Not criticizing . Just observing. | |||
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I think we have to realize that Africa will implode no matter what. The biggest threat to the planet is population growth. The numbers presented show the severity of the issue. | |||
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Hate to say it, but all the do-gooders who want to eliminate AIDS, Malaria and every other disease -- such as Bill Gates -- don't understand that everything in nature is there for a reason and all have their purpose. Wipe out those impediments to population growth and they all just starve to death. I know, I'm sounding like a negative misanthrope again. | |||
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Sir, you are 100% correct. | |||
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I agree with all of you gentlemen But it's like that everywhere including here in States Africa is doomed though. People overthere breed breed and breed and meanwhile we eliminate diseases, Mosquitos , tse tse flies etc, What were we thinking? Same said for a south East Asia And legends? Plenty of them among the PH's as well " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Looking at that list -- and I didn't see Tanzania, but over the years, they have a whole lot of really cute kids there -- too many, unfortunately. I noticed significant projected declines in population in certain countries, mostly European and rather controlled growth in some countries, even African countries. The limited increases in Africa seemed to be in the desert countries that were not predominately Muslim, Namibia and Botswana. Someone should, and probably is, studying this and determining the reasons for population increase in particular places, as opposed to others. I'd be interested in the reasons. Some have blamed the Catholic Church for the population explosion in Mexico, Central and South America based on the historical teachings against contraception, but that can't be the answer. Look at the increases and projected increases in countries where the Church has little if any influence, including predominately Muslim countries. They have been pushing the use of condoms in many areas of Africa due to AIDS, but there is a lot of resistance to their use in Africa. I agree that the population explosion is a serious concern worldwide and especially in Africa, but why don't Namibia and Botswana seem to have the same issues? Why doesn't AIDS, malaria, tryps, cholera, etc. control the population any more? It used to. | |||
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Just looking at the raw data - its does not seem religion, culture, ethic group or race really matters. It across a geographic zone - a latitude band - stretching from Atlantic to Aden. The numbers are just mind blowing between 1950 and 2050. We need to get in fish farming. Mike | |||
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I disagree - there is do-gooder stuff as some would say but the growth numbers are happening in places where there has not been a diaproptionate focus of ngos ect. I also don't think these places are going to strave to death. The wildlife may be all replaced by human activity but i don't see massive starvation. I think all this population boom may be great for the aggregate african economy - terrible for wildlife. Mike | |||
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It ain't religion http://www.photius.com/ranking...ion_projections.html Is just geographic explosion Mike | |||
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[/QUOTE] If you want to talk about all time African hunting legends still living I would rank the top 3 as follows. 1) I believe Andrew Holmberg is still alive and living in Denmark. 2) Harry Selby 3) Adelino Serras Pires[/QUOTE] Good to hear us talking about real hunting legends. In my opinion there are no celebrity hunting legends , and I say that with respect as I know some very well. I would not leave Ron Thomson out of the mix. Although most of his Big game hunting score was in service of the game department and not for private gain or guiding clients , it is amazing what this man did in his career , probably exceeding any hunter alive today. His books are well worth reading. | |||
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I am envious - Larry/Saeed and the cohort/group that started hunting in 1980 and even 1990s will be last of the legends. Got to see a lot of wild Africa than anyone will see in next 35-50 years. Tanzania with 85 mil. people in 2050 - 10 times the population of 1950. I need to up my trips from 1 to 2-3 a year - hunt a little less maybe but see much more of the country and wildlife. Before it all becomes a sea of humanity kind of like India today. Mike | |||
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beretta, I never said it was about religion. Just making an observation. Perhaps it is more about a lack of TV. Just joking, sort of. | |||
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Definitely free time somewhere to make all these babies :-) The numbers in Uganda, Congo, Ethiopia, Yemen, Nigeria - just blow my mind. Time to go do some hunting or atleast see some of these countries before they are a mass of humanity. Mike | |||
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beretta, Agreed, hunt while you can. It won't last forever. And it is scary. Spend some time in Arusha. All of the many school children about. One the one hand, our educators could take a lesson. They are all dressed neatly in their uniforms and go to and from school in groups, singing along the way. Happy to be there, no baggy pants, etc. On the other, there are a whole lot of kids. | |||
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There will always be a smarter, adaptive better bug. As populations get denser they will be ripe for the picking when a proper influenza virus "drifts" or mutates into something like the Flu of 1918. The other interesting aspect of that particular pandemic was that the young and healthy were the highest percentage killed. Alaska had entire villages wiped out except for some elders and the very young. Essentially a bug that took out the breeders. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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Agree 100% - just think something bad will come out of India or Southern China. Large congested cities and a over medicated population. Perfect environment for a killer bug. I think we also get that before 2050. Mean while I got to read up more on fish farming. Mike | |||
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I have always wondered why a lot of the Indian population and the Chinese population wasn't wiped out by some pandemic. The population explosion in Africa is the #1 problem for wildlife. It is really hard to watch. If one takes the BEST places in Africa today, they would have been just an average place 25-30 YEARS AGO. Nothing special. The world needs to wake up. The population explosion will be the end of the world as we know it. Something needs to be done and done now. I know one thing. I am damn glad I am 59. I won't see the worst of things but rest assured, they are coming. | |||
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Larry on a population density basis India and China look no different than Germany or Netherland. They are just big !!!!! The population explosion in the band I posted is massive even by all other growth standards. The dirty little secret around the world is you need an increasing population base - even if you are the most ardent French nationalist - end of the day you will demand an increase in population indirectly cause all developed economy are dependent on increasing population base. We know what happens when it does not increase - its Japan and its very ugly. But for wildlife - this is going to be terrible same for hunting. Mike | |||
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The smart thing you did was start hunting Africa early - why you are part of the living legends. Even what was done from 1980s on will not be replicated. Mike | |||
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Tony Sanchez-Arino has hunted Africa since 1952....still do at 83.. Jose Pardal...a portuguese, hunted elephant extensively in Moz up to 1975. Being a schoolteacher he spent the summer in the bush with family and friends...he died 2013.. I strongly recommend his book "Elephant hunting in Portuguese East Africa" printed by Safari Press..Pardal was rather fanatic about ele hunting...  | |||
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I would never have thought that. | |||
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Insect protein is the future... | |||
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If you want to talk about all time African hunting legends still living I would rank the top 3 as follows. 1) I believe Andrew Holmberg is still alive and living in Denmark. 2) Harry Selby 3) Adelino Serras Pires[/QUOTE] Good to hear us talking about real hunting legends. In my opinion there are no celebrity hunting legends , and I say that with respect as I know some very well. I would not leave Ron Thomson out of the mix. Although most of his Big game hunting score was in service of the game department and not for private gain or guiding clients , it is amazing what this man did in his career , probably exceeding any hunter alive today. His books are well worth reading.[/QUOTE] Yes Jan real legends.. Another one or two.. I believe Anthony (Tony) Dyer is still kicking and living at Borana Ranch in Kenya. Angelo Dacey of Sudan fame believe alive as well. | |||
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Africa will be home to an estimated 2.4 billion people by 2050. That is a hell of a lot, sure, but Africa is a huge continent that is increasingly urbanized. As people move into cities, large scale farming increases, and the standard of living increases, hopefully protection of wildlife will be a priority. I'm not as doom and gloom as most of you? I deleted the photo because it was so large for the forums. Please resize it down to 1800 pixel max if you wish to post it. Saeed ----------------------------------------- "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. -Henry David Thoreau, Walden | |||
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http://forums.accuratereloadin...291006121#1291006121 Safari2, My friends Rose and Sam Pancotto hunted with Andrew Holmberg and I believe took three 100 pounders on their trip. Sam has amazing stories of his hunt with Andrew. Their hunting trip is in Andrew's book "Out in Africa". Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | |||
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Storms: Yes, Africa is massive. It has been totally mismanaged by corrupt governments. It is a disaster now. How will it be any better with the population explosion? I don't see how. | |||
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Someone forgot to include Canada, but I guess they don't have population explosion " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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Awesome Kathi. Thanks for passing it along. | |||
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Storms, Zimbabwe had large scale farming, but that hadn't worked so well after Uncle Bob took over. The concept of delayed gradification is not very common in Africa, not a lot of long term planning. It is more about get what you can, while you can. I think this will only get worse as the population explodes. I hope I'm wrong but I think the wildlife will suffer greatly during the population explosion. I also think the people will suffer, as political conflicts increase due to fights over resources. Again I hope I'm wrong. Go Duke!! | |||
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Should Ron Thompson be included? Reading his book "Mahohoboh" and besides being an excellent read he has some bag numbers that are quite impressive. Well over 5000 elephant? White Mountains Arizona | |||
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