It seems like more hunters are trying to avoid JNB and the silly SAPS forms and inspections and the chaos of the JNB arrivals terminal and the almost always overnight requirement when entering africa through JNB. Not to mention the crime and extortion that occurs at JNB.

Count me among them. While I have close personal friends in RSA and enjoy Shalk and Diedre at African Sky, after almost 20 years of safari I just want a smoother transition and less inconvenience to my hunting experience. In the past the only time I didn't fly via JNB was when heading into east africa.

Now that there are viable options for avoiding JNB into southern africa, I intend to do so whenever possible, starting in 5 weeks.

What are the other options for traveling/hunting Limpopo?

essentially none...

Gator-

Welcome to AR.

Anytime you're hunting RSA you cannot avoid the JNB merry-go-round. I last hunted RSA in 2003 to pick-up some East Cape species I didn't know about on my first East Cape safari many years prior. I honestly don't anticipate hunting RSA again, unless I go down to visit friends and we decide to do some hunting together. But there are many species only available in RSA and I've had a good hunt in the Limpopo.

Using mileage tickets can well affect your choice to avoid Jo-Berg. My last trip into Zambia we flew into Lusaka from Heathrow to avoid Jo-Berg but honestly it caused so much more scheduling issue that I will go through Jo-Berg next time and just use a rifle permit service again. It really isn't that big a deal.

I flew into JNB in 2008 and 2011. I had no problems what so ever.

Rent

JNB May 2012, arrival seamless, less than 10 minutes to clear with guns, with the help of Godfrey from African Sky. Leaving for Zim 7 days later after overnighting at and with the same help from African Sky and Godfrey, Seamless!

My previous four trips were to Tanzania via AMS, but this year I flew thru JNB. The SAPS stuff is no more trouble than the Dutch consent form.

My bag were inadvertently checked to WDH instead of JNB, but the baggage guy got it for me. He told me due to theft, the ability of employees to access the baggage holding areas and grab a bag are severely restricted.

The worst place I have ever transited guns was Beijing. You don't keep your guns; they get locked up at the police station at the airport. Australia isn't much better.

quote:

JNB May 2012, arrival seamless, less than 10 minutes to clear with guns, with the help of Godfrey from African Sky. Leaving for Zim 7 days later after overnighting at and with the same help from African Sky and Godfrey, Seamless!

Diedre told me in Dallas that Godfrey was no longer with them.
He was very helpful & polite, we should all try to be that way.

Mike,

I have to agree with the others. Transiting through the new O.R. Tembo is just not that big a deal. Engaging a meet/greet/gun permit service is just part of the safari's total cost and takes all the hassle out of arrival. Last year Sadie and I were less than 30 minutes from arrival to sitting in the departure lounge for our flight to Zim.

If you don't want to overnight schedule a flight that comes in early enough to allow you to make the flight up to Zim. I have never had to overnight in JNB except one time when we were chartering to Mozambique very early the next morning.

Mark

+1

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Mike,

I have to agree with the others. Transiting through the new O.R. Tembo is just not that big a deal. Engaging a meet/greet/gun permit service is just part of the safari's total cost and takes all the hassle out of arrival. Last year Sadie and I were less than 30 minutes from arrival to sitting in the departure lounge for our flight to Zim.

If you don't want to overnight schedule a flight that comes in early enough to allow you to make the flight up to Zim. I have never had to overnight in JNB except one time when we were chartering to Mozambique very early the next morning.

Mark

I checked my bags and rifles all the way through in 2011 and had no issues. San Diego - Chicago - Frankfurt - Jo'berg - Beira.

Aside from some boringly long layovers, no issues.

Arriving in Joburg is a pain if you don't prearranged permits.

I get all my clients permits pre issued and it is a matter of ten minutes from when the guns arrive to us heading out of the terminal.

If you have a connection then fly via London and the virgin flight arrived first thing in the mng rather than the afternoon arrival from the USA.

Guns in the uk are also a piece of cake if you get the paperwork done properly.

K

My last trip (Oct 2011) I flew Virgin Atlantic from Los Angeles to JFK then got on a SAA flight nonstop to Joburg had a lay over of about three hours and then jumped on another SAA flight to Harare. So I went through Joburg, but didn't overnight there or have to go through the SAPs hassle. Everything was on time and my guns and baggage arrived with me. My PH met me at the airport for another five hour ride to the Safari area. It was basically 36 hours of straight travelling. I now book a day or two at the start of my safari as a fishing/relaxing day as I am quite fatigued upon arrival. I have stayed at the Afton house quite often and have always enjoyed the hospitality, but unless I am specifically hunting in RSA I schedule my flights to avoid having to leave the airport. I rather rest up in the bush avoid SAPS and Oliver Tambo Intl as much as I can.

I am taking the same route this year leaving May 30th. I booked it with Travel With Guns.

I didn't read all of this thread. If someone already said this, I apologize.

Personally, I hate Johannesburg and the thieves in the place. It is an unfortunate reality that I must fly through there. Last August when we went to Botswana, we had to fly through Tambo & spend the night. We used a service that met us at the plane and escorted us through the entire process. We waited in no lines and went through very quickly. It only cost $200-$300 and was worth every penny.

Come on guys. I may be getting old and cranky, but from the sounds of the "I had no problem" replies and the dates shown, it appears none of you enjoyed the pre-SAPS experience. I always cleared my own guns in those days and have done post SAPS as well, but started using a service after undue delays and long lines at the SAPS office. Just wait until 2 or 3 jumbo jets land at the same time, due to airline delays, and dump 50 hunters into line at SAPS. Been there, done that, didn't enjoy it in the slightest.

Of course, all the outfitters and agents posting in this thread want you to think it's all smiles and winks but then they do have a fiduciary interest in making you believe it is always easy, now don't they?

No question that the gun services are efficient, but what's the real purpose of the SAPS delay in the first place? What is it that RSA is looking for and what are they accomplishing that they were unable to accomplish with the less restrictive system? Why should we have to pay anyone to clear our guns at JNB? And don't even get me started on the private contractor firearms inspectors upon JNB departure - talk about crooks!

And arrival-connection times in JNB are almost impossible without an overnight. Those that can be made are exceptions to the rule. I've hunted at least 8 sub-Saharan african countries, each one multiple times, so I have more than a little experience at the JNB game. I have resolved to avoid it in future if any viable alternative is available. Emirates Air now flies into Zambia and Zimbabwe direct from Dubai with no JNB stop. Air Namibia connects from Frankfurt directly into Windhoek. There are options.

And I might add that I have flown all kinds of different airlines and routings into africa, almost annually over the last 18 years. I remember when SAA was absolutely incredible and also when it degenerated into a POS airline with surely attendants in Business Class. Finally swore off them after being sneered at both going and coming in 2004. Virgin via London was good but had a very long UK lay over. Delta requires a change in Atlanta or NYC and is inconsistent. BA is good but has firearms issues in UK, especially if going into Zim. Air travel stopped being enjoyable for me post 9/11.

Rant off.

I went through the overnight plan in Joberg to Vic Falls in early September 2012. No problems with 2 hunters and 4 guns. We did get skimmed for $20 a piece in Vic Falls on the way out. That was the only "African Experience" we had on that hunt.

Forgot to mention I went through Joberg on SA hunts in 99 and 04. Again no problems and no difference in delay or hassle between 99, 04, and 12. Maybe I have good Karma, not great but good.

I go to south africa every year. Never had any problems.
I did send around 40clients in the last 2-3years to my friends farm. Never any problems.
Sometimes it takes an hours but besides that they are OK.

I just returned from RSA. And YES there were no problems.
Plan your trip wisely and you won't have to overnight in RSA.
Two sets of tickets will take care of the BA / Zim issue.
Travelling through UK with firearms will be fine as long as you use a travel agency that is up to date on gun related issues.

Your trip will go smoothly...really...

I have been travelling through RSA for over 20 years and it just gets easier with each trip.

quote:

Of course, all the outfitters and agents posting in this thread want you to think it's all smiles and winks but then they do have a fiduciary interest in making you believe it is always easy, now don't they?

Mike,

I don't think you meant to call me a liar. Right? If a client does what I recommend they should have no problem in JNB.

I've hunted 8 countries too and actually predate you a little on my first safari so I've been through all the airports too. O.R. Tembo has its quirks like all the rest but I think of the last 5 African airports I've been through O.R. Tembo was the fastest transition.

Mark

My only experience with OR Tambo went pretty well, in 2009. However, I still prefer the old Jan Smuts Airport. Now that was easy. Ahh, for the good old days...

Hey Mark,

Come on on now, where did I call you a liar? Never happened. Always thought we got on well and often agree on issues, but you DO have a fiduciary interest, just as I did when I was an african hunting consultant.

Mark, are you saying you've never had a contract inspector at JNB ask you for biltong or security tell you your scope cannot be in your carry-on bag or a counter clerk say your luggage is too heavy to fly into Zim, Zam or any other african country on a connecting/onward flight? I have experienced these or been present when other hunters have, many times. Can you deal with these issues? Sure. Should you have to? Hell NO! Do they ruin a safari? Never. But they can be stressful, uncomfortable and cause serious resentment, especially when you know you have done nothing wrong. Ever had to run from security all the way back to the gun inspection point, hoping all the way that your gun case has not been moved to the aircraft yet, just so you can put your scope inside your gun case? I haven't but I've been with hunters who did.

I have traveled all around the world and been on every continent except Antarctica. JNB is, without compare, staffed with the most corrupt, incompetent and rude airport personnel I've ever had the displeasure to deal with. Hiring a meet & greet gun clearance service definitely helps, but why should a client have to pay for a service that he should be able to do himself; and can anywhere else in the world!

Larryshores put it well when he said "Personally, I hate Johannesburg and the thieves in the place." Larry also has more than a few trips through JNB.

NOTE: Read the latest post on African Travel thread by a new poster regarding his ammo. Nowhere else in the world but JNB will you have a problem like this when traveling with less than 5Kg (11 lbs) of sporting ammo.

Mike,

Its clear from your earlier post that you were implying that I would sugar coat the O.R. Tembo experience and that's just not true. As for a fiduciary interest do you think I get paid by these meet/greet outfits or travel agents? I assure you I don't.

Larry did say he didn't like O.R. Tembo and who likes any airport? He also said of his meet/greet service "We waited in no lines and went through very quickly. It only cost $200-$300 and was worth every penny." That is what I recommend and folks love it.

Mark

Man I am glad the season is starting---lots of cabin fever going around.



Y'all play nice now-hear?

I have always cleared SAPS in JNB myself, never a problem. 6 or 7 times now and will do so again in July.

Knock on wood, but I've cleared SAP myself for three safaris. No problemo so far.

Does not Emerites fly Houston Dubai Harare? Long flight. Eliminates Jo'berg.

I may fly that route next. I have a niece and her husband living in Dubai.

If I never have a SA Po-liceman ask me to "buy him a cool drink" again, it will be too soon.

If there is any other option, I'll take it.

Hoping to bring some perspective to those worried about Joberg. I've had worse luck in Seattle that in Joberg or any other African airport I have visited. 10-20 bucks is the most to get my gun or clear any problem. No money will get you by the corrupt Federal unionistas. Seattle has cost me more time and money then all 6 African airports I have travelled through.

What is more corrupt, 10 dollars to sail through an African airport or no amount of money when the anti-gun anti-hunting Feds will not clear your firearms until you miss 2 connections just because they want to harass a gun owner and hunter. I been treated better on every hunting trip through Paris.

Mike

Read my reply to that post. I'm not saying it's perfect but good preparation will help you. I know about the scope issue in carry on; I was on a trip where this has happened. My mother has also flown me a scope that I left at her home in carry on without problems. But now we all know to put it in the gun case. As I said many of the staff are poorly trained and don't want to risk making a mistake. Recently at one of the airports here on a local flight a guy had brass confiscated (incorrectly of course). It is all about a lack of knowledge. A friend was detained in Dubai some years ago for the same thing.

As recommended try to get things done up front. The PHASA website used to have information and forms and many outfitters websites do to. Yes,I can guess that when there are queues you take a long time to get through. But try flying to the US without guns from South Africa with a visa and see how long you take to clear immigration after a barrage of questions.

Be prepared and take the right paperwork. Accept up front that you may need to wait and remain calm. You can't change it. When it's your turn smile and remain friendly with who is helping you. Us African folks are usually very engaging. Now try asking a US or German customs official what the weather has been like the past few days and tell me which experience you preferred.The reality is that it is a different place to back home. It is usual for people to start a conversation by asking how you are. It's polite to reply and ask the same.You may not experience it, but even many officicals will do this if you have your happy face on. You are going hunting! Look like you are looking forward to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
Hoping to bring some perspective to those worried about Joberg. I've had worse luck in Seattle that in Joberg or any other African airport I have visited. 10-20 bucks is the most to get my gun or clear any problem. No money will get you by the corrupt Federal unionistas. Seattle has cost me more time and money then all 6 African airports I have travelled through.

What is more corrupt, 10 dollars to sail through an African airport or no amount of money when the anti-gun anti-hunting Feds will not clear your firearms until you miss 2 connections just because they want to harass a gun owner and hunter. I been treated better on every hunting trip through Paris.

While I have had bad things happen in Joberg, my worst ever incidents were in Atlanta at the hands of US customs and in Amsterdam.

In Joberg, i have had someone attempt to steal my bags, was solicited for bribes, forced to buy a second SAA ticket because I did not have the credit card on me that was used to buy the ticket , forced "help" with my bags, and unauthorized credit card charges. In spite of this, none come close to my worst incidents.

In 96, we were in Amsterdam traveling back from TZ. I hear myself being paged. To make a long story short, when I reported to the room I was told to go to, I was surrounded by 6 people with machine guns. These machine guns were being pointed at yours truly. After extensive questioning and a through search of my bags,these geniuses came to the conclusion that I was not a terrorist.

A couple of years ago while returning from Spain, we made it to Atlanta a bit late. We rushed to Customs. I was happy when we got there as we were the ONLY travelers. To make a long story short, the jack ass from customs, delayed us forever. He took his time with the entire process. Searched every thing we had. He was no doubt doing it on purpose. My girlfriend at the time was livid. She was a lawyer for the Feds. We ended up missing our flight and had to spend an extra 6 hours in ATL.