Most TV hunting shows suck wildly. THey show hunting and hunters to be a bunch of immature, redneck, hillbilly, inbred, wastes of good DNA. I know it's not always that bad but it seems we are heading in that direction.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
So, have we determined if he was drunk or not?

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
So, have we determined if he was drunk or not?

I think I saw a couple of beer cans and a half empty Wild Turkey bottle fall out when they got out of the truck.

quote:

Most TV hunting shows suck wildly. THey show hunting and hunters to be a bunch of immature, redneck, hillbilly, inbred, wastes of good DNA. I know it's not always that bad but it seems we are heading in that direction.

BINGO!!!!!!

That is why Tracks Across Africa and Under wild Skies are such good shows!

quote:

I have also seen too many paper shooters that can't hit a live animal worth a damn.

Believe me or not, but I have actually had hunters come out and do a javelina hunt, that brought along a loose leaf binder, with all their latest targets. Yet I get them out in the pasture and we get up on a javelina at 20 damn yards and they can not hit the little son of a bitch.

They are not used to shooting off hand, they are not used to shots being that close, they have their scope cranked up to 12 power, etc., etc., etc. infinitum.

The best clients I have ever had, and the best hunters I have been fortunate enough to share a camp with as a client, are those that the instant the guide says "Take Him", the shot is made and the critter is down and dead or dying.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I have also seen too many paper shooters that can't hit a live animal worth a damn.

Believe me or not, but I have actually had hunters come out and do a javelina hunt, that brought along a loose leaf binder, with all their latest targets. Yet I get them out in the pasture and we get up on a javelina at 20 damn yards and they can not hit the little son of a bitch.

They are not used to shooting off hand, they are not used to shots being that close, they have their scope cranked up to 12 power, etc., etc., etc. infinitum.

The best clients I have ever had, and the best hunters I have been fortunate enough to share a camp with as a client, are those that the instant the guide says "Take Him", the shot is made and the critter is down and dead or dying.

Well, I bet you never had a competitive shooter who couldn't hit animals. That pressure is much more intense than any "buck fever" I ever got.

But I agree, if you only shoot at a bench rest you are pretty much wasting your time.

And Crazy, to your point, how many guys on TV can't shoot a damn thing unless they have the latest tripod mount double clamped rest? How long does it take to get that crap set up?

I saw that ridiculous "Best of the West" show the other day. They were showing their shooting school. "Now we are going to shoot sitting" the host said.

"Great" I thought. Finally a realistic shooting position. "Sitting" turned out to be a tripod with the rifle clamped in. That isn't sitting...

quote:

Well, I bet you never had a competitive shooter who couldn't hit animals. That pressure is much more intense than any "buck fever" I ever got.

Far as I know, I have only had one competetive shooter in a camp, and he was damn good.

My observation are based on folks that are hell off the bench, but get them in the field and they have a hard time spotting game and then have a hard time getting into a position to take a shot.

quote:

And Crazy, to your point, how many guys on TV can't shoot a damn thing unless they have the latest tripod mount double clamped rest? How long does it take to get that crap set up?

I saw that ridiculous "Best of the West" show the other day. They were showing their shooting school. "Now we are going to shoot sitting" the host said.

"Great" I thought. Finally a realistic shooting position. "Sitting" turned out to be a tripod with the rifle clamped in. That isn't sitting...

Can't argue with any of that, in fact it is why I rarely watch any of the hunting shows

Crazy:

I agree. i just got back from gong shooting at the range. I am always the only one who shoots from anything but the bench. Except tomorrow, when the competitive shooters shoot at 500. Even then, I am the only one who shoots sitting.

Well, I bet you never had a competitive shooter who couldn't hit animals. That pressure is much more intense than any "buck fever" I ever got.



when I was a state police officer my partner was a prime example of the opposite of what you're saying. He was an Air Force rifle competitor, and competed n the International Police Olympics. I was on the teal also. The man could, and did, shoot quite well, as we won every competition I shot in.

Now on live deer...he sucked. Probably hit less than 50% of the deer he shot at....

troy

I am as guilty as anyone for taking this topic off track, but the actual title is what should be being addressed. Was the guy impaired due to alcohol consumption? If so, how did those scenes not end up on the cutting room floor?

Personal ethics concerning shooting from a vehicle or who can or cannot hit their own arse with both hands with their rifle be damned. Showing a hunter obviously impaired by alcohol shooting a gun is a lot more damning and damaging to the image of hunters in general.

Ok flame me for this but in my opinion, shooting a game animal from a vehicle is not hunting, it is an assasination. Physically impared hunters are an entirely different matter.

465H&H

Flame yourself Dude. How the animal was shot is NOT the important issue, was the guy DRUNK. Be damned what you, me or anyone else thinks about shooting from the vehicle, that is immaterial as hell. Was the guy drunk on the video??? Priorities Man, Priorities!!!!! Shooting from a vehicle is perfectly legal in some ares, Who Cares??? Showing a hunter impaired by alcohol gives ALL of us a black eye!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Flame yourself Dude. How the animal was shot is NOT the important issue, was the guy DRUNK. Be damned what you, me or anyone else thinks about shooting from the vehicle, that is immaterial as hell. Was the guy drunk on the video??? Priorities Man, Priorities!!!!! Shooting from a vehicle is perfectly legal in some ares, Who Cares??? Showing a hunter impaired by alcohol gives ALL of us a black eye!!!!!

And of course shooting from a vehicle doesn't give hunters a black eye to the non-hunting public? You are correct though drunk hunters are much worse.

465H&H

Shooting from a truck gives a new meaning to the term "drive-by shooting"!

quote:

You are correct though drunk hunters are much worse.

Glad to see that you could join the Adults in the crowd. Allowing scenes of alcohol impaired hunters is a HELL of a lot worse than shooting from a vehicle. in fact there is NO DAMN COMPARISON!!!!!

quote:

Shooting from a truck gives a new meaning to the term "drive-by shooting"!

emron, shooting from a vehicle is considered perfectly legal in some locations. You dpon't want to shoot from a vehicle, Don't Do It, BUT, Do Not Condem ANYONE else that has no problem doing a LEGAL activity. If you have a problem, get the laws changed or STFU!!!!

Crazy,

Telling someone to STFU because he disagrees with you is infantile behavior. I Think your better than that. It is obvious you shot from a vehicle and take it personally that someone would disagree with your practice. Just because some thing is legal doesn't make it the right thing to do in public. Sex is another one.

Very few states allow that practice and for very good reasons. Among them are the definite safety issues involved with having a loaded gun in a moving vehicle. The general public will see such activity as taking unfair advantage of the animal and condemn the practice. It can also lead to shooting from public roads, another safety issue. From my standpoint, that is not hunting but shooting. Get your ass out of your truck and you will feel like you did something worthwhile when you succeed..

465H&H

I can't believe anyone here would speak out against someone hunting under the influence. We hunters need to stick together; what's ethical for one may not be ethical for another. All we're doing is giving more ammo to the antis. As long as it's legal....

465, grow up just a little bit. If it is legal to shoot from a vehicle and a person's ethics doers not have a problem with it, What Is The Big Deal?

One more time and hopefully you can open your EYES and MIND to the cvoncept that the BIGGER ISSUE is, Was The Guy In The video Drunk? If he was, IT DOES NOT MATTER whether he was shooting from a vehicle, It Was That HE WAS DRUNK.

ARE YOU that simple minded that the issue of shooting from a vehicle is MORE IMPORTANT, than showing that the hunter was impaired thru alcohol use?????

Shooting from a vehicle is LEGAL in some areas, Get The Hell Over It. Showing a hunter impaired by alcohol gives all of us a black eye.

quote:

Originally posted by Antlers:
I can't believe anyone here would speak out against someone hunting under the influence. We hunters need to stick together; what's ethical for one may not be ethical for another. All we're doing is giving more ammo to the antis. As long as it's legal....

I mean who's to say the hunting drunk is wrong. Is it illegal to hunt drunk in Southern Africa? And who's to say what drunk is - what's drunk for one may only be a buzz for another....I mean as long as it's ethical...who are we to judge?

One aspect some of you need to address here, is do you believe it is A OKAY for hunter to be filmed possibly impaired by alcohol consumption, but shooting from a vehicle while possibly perfectly legal is far worse??????

Think long and hard before answering that and look back on your earlier posts before you make a complete ass of yourself!

Shooting from a vehicle is one thing, that can be sorted out by checking the regulations of the country where the hunt is taking place.

Filming a hunter that appears to be or is impaired due to alcohol consumption falls into a whole different category. If you can not understand that, maybe it is time hunting was outlawed.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
465, grow up just a little bit. If it is legal to shoot from a vehicle and a person's ethics doers not have a problem with it, What Is The Big Deal?

One more time and hopefully you can open your EYES and MIND to the cvoncept that the BIGGER ISSUE is, Was The Guy In The video Drunk? If he was, IT DOES NOT MATTER whether he was shooting from a vehicle, It Was That HE WAS DRUNK.

ARE YOU that simple minded that the issue of shooting from a vehicle is MORE IMPORTANT, than showing that the hunter was impaired thru alcohol use?????

Shooting from a vehicle is LEGAL in some areas, Get The Hell Over It. Showing a hunter impaired by alcohol gives all of us a black eye.

It appears you are letting your personal choice to shoot from a vehicle color your mind to the points I made about safety and its affect on the non-hunting publics perception of what hunting is all about. It does become my concern when your actions make me look bad to that public and could affect their vote on whether hunting should be allowed. We don't need to convert any of them to the anti side of the isle.

465H&H

So, your still saying that having a hunter appear on film for Public viewing, that appears to impaired by Alcohol consumption during a hunt is better for the image of hunters in general, than someone legally shooting from a vehicle. Are you really serious????

As for this totally baseless POS statement of yours:

quote:

It appears you are letting your personal choice to shoot from a vehicle color your mind to the points I made about safety and its affect on the non-hunting publics perception of what hunting is all about.

Just for honesties sake, why don't you tell everyone just exactly how many times you have, A. met me, B. hunted with me, and C. know anything about my hunting preferences? Now can you answer those quetions?

If you REALLY believe that shooting from a vehicle, a perferctly legal practice in some areas gives hunters a worse image, than a hunter appearing to be drunk while hunting/handlong firearms, then you are the one with the problem, not me.

465, why don't you take a poll and see which most folks feel is more detrimental toward the Public image of hunter, shooting from a vehicle on film, or appearing to be drunk on film.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Flame yourself Dude. How the animal was shot is NOT the important issue, was the guy DRUNK. Be damned what you, me or anyone else thinks about shooting from the vehicle, that is immaterial as hell. Was the guy drunk on the video??? Priorities Man, Priorities!!!!! Shooting from a vehicle is perfectly legal in some ares, Who Cares??? Showing a hunter impaired by alcohol gives ALL of us a black eye!!!!!

And of course shooting from a vehicle doesn't give hunters a black eye to the non-hunting public? You are correct though drunk hunters are much worse.
465H&H

Crazy,

You need to work on your reading comprehension skills. Where did I ever say that drunk hunters were not worse than someone shooting from a vehicle? See the above quote and I will wait for your apology.

465H&H

MY reading comprehension skills are fine. YOU are the one that is making shooting from the vehicle more of a problem than a person being impaired or appearing impaired by alcohol consumption.

Shooting From A Vehicle = issue times 10,000. It is an ETHICS question/concept, and NO ONE is going to change ANY ONE'S mind. If it is legal, some people are going to do it and some folks aren't, that simple whether it should show up on film is strictly up to whoever does the editing or does the filming. Does not matter to me either way.

Handling firearms/hunting while appearing to be impaired, DEFINITELY DOES NOT need to be shown under any circumstance, except a "What Not To Do" video.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I have also seen too many paper shooters that can't hit a live animal worth a damn.

Believe me or not, but I have actually had hunters come out and do a javelina hunt, that brought along a loose leaf binder, with all their latest targets. Yet I get them out in the pasture and we get up on a javelina at 20 damn yards and they can not hit the little son of a bitch.

They are not used to shooting off hand, they are not used to shots being that close, they have their scope cranked up to 12 power, etc., etc., etc. infinitum.

The best clients I have ever had, and the best hunters I have been fortunate enough to share a camp with as a client, are those that the instant the guide says "Take Him", the shot is made and the critter is down and dead or dying.

Well, I bet you never had a competitive shooter who couldn't hit animals. That pressure is much more intense than any "buck fever" I ever got.

But I agree, if you only shoot at a bench rest you are pretty much wasting your time.

And Crazy, to your point, how many guys on TV can't shoot a damn thing unless they have the latest tripod mount double clamped rest? How long does it take to get that crap set up?

I saw that ridiculous "Best of the West" show the other day. They were showing their shooting school. "Now we are going to shoot sitting" the host said.

"Great" I thought. Finally a realistic shooting position. "Sitting" turned out to be a tripod with the rifle clamped in. That isn't sitting...

I have seen a member of the Hall Of Fame of Bench Rest struggle to shoot animals.

A lot of people who are very good target shooters find it difficult to shoot under field conditions.

Crazy,

One more try and then I give up on you. Please read the above post highlighted in red. In it I say "You are correct though drunk hunters are much worse."than vehicle shooters. Quit telling me what you think I said and read what I did. I am still waiting for you to respond to the safety and public opinion problems I enumerated.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I have also seen too many paper shooters that can't hit a live animal worth a damn.

Believe me or not, but I have actually had hunters come out and do a javelina hunt, that brought along a loose leaf binder, with all their latest targets. Yet I get them out in the pasture and we get up on a javelina at 20 damn yards and they can not hit the little son of a bitch.

They are not used to shooting off hand, they are not used to shots being that close, they have their scope cranked up to 12 power, etc., etc., etc. infinitum.

The best clients I have ever had, and the best hunters I have been fortunate enough to share a camp with as a client, are those that the instant the guide says "Take Him", the shot is made and the critter is down and dead or dying.

Well, I bet you never had a competitive shooter who couldn't hit animals. That pressure is much more intense than any "buck fever" I ever got.

But I agree, if you only shoot at a bench rest you are pretty much wasting your time.

And Crazy, to your point, how many guys on TV can't shoot a damn thing unless they have the latest tripod mount double clamped rest? How long does it take to get that crap set up?

I saw that ridiculous "Best of the West" show the other day. They were showing their shooting school. "Now we are going to shoot sitting" the host said.

"Great" I thought. Finally a realistic shooting position. "Sitting" turned out to be a tripod with the rifle clamped in. That isn't sitting...

I have seen a member of the Hall Of Fame of Bench Rest struggle to shoot animals.

A lot of people who are very good target shooters find it difficult to shoot under field conditions.

Saeed:

Ok, let's take a look at the flip side: "I can't hit paper, but show me an animal..."

Yea, right. Having shot in competition, I can tell you I was much more "feverish" shooting in the All Army matches than I was shooting a lion, leopard, ele, etc.

A good three position shooter knows this:
1. When the targets come up, you better start putting putting some lead in the air accurately (unless shooting prone slow fire) if you want to win.
2. If a shot looks bad, it will turn out bad.
3. Make sure you are shooting at the right target.
4. Know how to compensate for the wind.

How do you think your brother would do against live birds? I bet a lot better than I do...

465, there are no more safety issues when shooting from a vehicle than from shooting off hand while standing. In the places where it is legal the people that are used to doing it are extremely careful.

As for Public Opinion problems, the forces that are against hunting do not care how we as individuals hunt, they want it stopped.

Arguements such as this one do more harm than anything as far as Public Opinions are concerned.

The average citizen on the street as a whole, does not watch hunting shows in the first place. Many of them really have no opinion toward hunting. They may not do it themself, but they don't have any problem if someone else enjoys it. The anti's portray everything hunters do as wrong, and that is not going to change.

465 for you and anyone else that thinks shooting from a vehicle is wrong, Get The Damn laws changed. I have made a few shots from a vehicle, it is not my preferred method, but I am not going to tell anyone that it is the only way to hunt. If it is legal and a person has no problem doing it, then it is their choice and I will not think any more or any less of them as a person, whichever way they decide to handle the situation.

I definitely won't jump on the "My Ethics Are Better Than Yours" bandwagon.

quote:

465, there are no more safety issues when shooting from a vehicle than from shooting off hand while standing. In the places where it is legal the people that are used to doing it are extremely careful.

That is pure BS. Having seen the results of a loaded rifle in a car when a 30/30 went off and hit a 16 year old under the chin and splattered his brains all over the ceiling of the car and in another case of what a mans stomach looks like when a 12 gauge charge of bird shot hits it as he is drawing a loaded gun from a car, I know what vehicles and loaded guns can do. A fairly high proportion of gun accidents involve loaded guns in vehicles. It is also difficult to maintain balance let alone muzzle direction when standing in the back of a pick up with a loaded gun and the vehicle lurches. Those types of accidents are much less likely to happen when your standing on the ground and shooting. Ethics have nothing to do with it, safety is the issue.

465H&H

quote:

That is pure BS. Having seen the results of a loaded rifle in a car when a 30/30 went off and hit a 16 year old under the chin and splattered his brains all over the ceiling of the car and in another case of what a mans stomach looks like when a 12 gauge charge of bird shot hits it as he is drawing a loaded gun from a car, I know what vehicles and loaded guns can do. A fairly high proportion of gun accidents involve loaded guns in vehicles. It is also difficult to maintain balance let alone muzzle direction when standing in the back of a pick up with a loaded gun and the vehicle lurches. Those types of accidents are much less likely to happen when your standing on the ground and shooting. Ethics have nothing to do with it, safety is the issue.

Those were accidents plain anmd simple, nothing more nothing less. There not one minute different than ther ones that recenly happened where hunters have been in a stand and shot and killed relatives because they thought they were deer, and then killed themself after seeing what happened.

Please notice what I stated:

quote:

In the places where it is legal the people that are used to doing it are extremely careful.

The don't have a shell in the chamber while traveling, they are not always standing up in the bed of a truck trying to shoot stuff on the fly. If you wpould check some of your "facts" a little more carefully, the majority of the accidents you describe involved inexperienced individuals handling firearms.

I witnessed a buddy almost blow his own damn head off, getting in to his car on a duck hunt back in the early 70's. We had been sneaking ponds looking for ducks and the idiot tried getting back into the car with the muzzle of his shotgun sticking straight up. He had a shell in the chamber and had not checked his safety. Two inches more to the left and he wlould have blown the whole right side of his face off.

Was that the vehicle's fault? Was that the guns fault? No to both those, it was a jerk in his mid-20's that did not have a lot of experience handling firearms, which in the vast majority of the cases involving a shooting in a vehicle during a hunting situation involves less experienced hunters and lack of safe gun handling.

With those individuals, it has nothing to do with a vehicle and a gun, they are dangerous out walking around. They will have a gun they are not all that familiar with and they will pull the trigger just to see if the safety is on. Have someone pull that when your out in a pasture putting the sneak on something and this mensa candidate behind you a couple of yards does that with a 7mm Rem Mag. Finishing the stalk is out of the question.

465, you are not the only person that has known people that have had firearms accidents, and the vast majority of firearms accidents involve improper handling/lack of experience or poor judgement.

The guy nearly blowing his head off did not stop me from hunting from a vehicle. It made me more cautious who I hunt with amnd more aware how those around me handled their guns. I will still shoot coyotes from a vehicle and rabbits.

Trying to shoot running animals from a moving vehicle is definitely asking for trouble, no arguement there, but I really do not believe anyone that was saying anything about the issue was promoting shooting game on the fly from a moving vehicle, I know I wasn't.

However, Stopping the vehicle and where legal the shooter taking a shot from a good steady rest works for me, your mileage varies.

Crazy,

It doesn't appear that you will ever change your mind on this issue and I certainly won't change mine so lets just leave it at that and remain friends.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I have also seen too many paper shooters that can't hit a live animal worth a damn.

Believe me or not, but I have actually had hunters come out and do a javelina hunt, that brought along a loose leaf binder, with all their latest targets. Yet I get them out in the pasture and we get up on a javelina at 20 damn yards and they can not hit the little son of a bitch.

They are not used to shooting off hand, they are not used to shots being that close, they have their scope cranked up to 12 power, etc., etc., etc. infinitum.

The best clients I have ever had, and the best hunters I have been fortunate enough to share a camp with as a client, are those that the instant the guide says "Take Him", the shot is made and the critter is down and dead or dying.

Well, I bet you never had a competitive shooter who couldn't hit animals. That pressure is much more intense than any "buck fever" I ever got.

But I agree, if you only shoot at a bench rest you are pretty much wasting your time.

And Crazy, to your point, how many guys on TV can't shoot a damn thing unless they have the latest tripod mount double clamped rest? How long does it take to get that crap set up?

I saw that ridiculous "Best of the West" show the other day. They were showing their shooting school. "Now we are going to shoot sitting" the host said.

"Great" I thought. Finally a realistic shooting position. "Sitting" turned out to be a tripod with the rifle clamped in. That isn't sitting...

I have seen a member of the Hall Of Fame of Bench Rest struggle to shoot animals.

A lot of people who are very good target shooters find it difficult to shoot under field conditions.

Saeed:

Ok, let's take a look at the flip side: "I can't hit paper, but show me an animal..."

Yea, right. Having shot in competition, I can tell you I was much more "feverish" shooting in the All Army matches than I was shooting a lion, leopard, ele, etc.

A good three position shooter knows this:
1. When the targets come up, you better start putting putting some lead in the air accurately (unless shooting prone slow fire) if you want to win.
2. If a shot looks bad, it will turn out bad.
3. Make sure you are shooting at the right target.
4. Know how to compensate for the wind.

How do you think your brother would do against live birds? I bet a lot better than I do...

I think it depends on the individual.

I know many people who are great shots, at targets, competition and hunting.

There are others, howefer, who seem to be very good at one and not the others.

That works for me. Maybe if EVERYONE would stop and realize that they are at an impasse on a subject and simply agree to disagree, and respect each other for at least being able and willing to form an opinion and stick with it, no matter how wrong it seems to others, things might not get so out of hand and the discussions would not look so bad to others.

Nothing what-so-ever is wrong with people realizing that there comes a point in any discussion where it is time to accept the fact that peoples opinions simply are not going to change, at least at that point in time.

Well part II is showing this week maybe it will shine a new light. You know some time sequels are better.

THE LION WAS DRUNK!

NW Hunter SA Lion Episode- Has anyone seen this?

It was as bad as any canned, probably drugged lion "hunt" I have seen.

Not having much luck finding one from the truck, they decided to walk up a road in search of big Males.

Suddenly there he was!! Burp? The lion layed there while the fat ass hunter/host and the SA ph moved into position. The lion seemed to try and focus on the intrusion. When they finally "Got the shot", it was high fives and many kudos for killing Africas most dangerous.

The pre and post stalk/kill segments revealed the worst of this guy. He and his show are pathetic, and an embarrassment.

I believe voting with your remote is not enough in this case.