Reading this thread is like walking in a sewer.

tendrams, led by Saeed. My post was about this thread and this thread only, I stand by my words. Sorry Saeed I don't worship any one or any thing except my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
tendrams, led by Saeed. My post was about this thread and this thread only, I stand by my words. Sorry Saeed I don't worship any one or any thing except my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Is that why keep sending PMs to those who do not agree with you??

GOOD BYE!!!

Just received the following PM from Die Ou Jagter.

"FUCK OFF RAG HEAD!!!!!!"

Very classy indeed!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Just received the following PM from Die Ou Jagter.

"FUCK OFF RAG HEAD!!!!!!"

Very classy indeed!

Wow...and I complained about being called a "Fucking Asshole" in my PM!!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Just received the following PM from Die Ou Jagter.

"FUCK OFF RAG HEAD!!!!!!"

Very classy indeed!

Well isn't that special. I wish my wife had that sort of blind devotion to me.

If you go back and a few posts, Mr. Jines touches the tip of the iceberg regarding character of CB.

And now here is a display of NO character at all. Sad.

Jeff

The sad part is that a grown man can become so enslaved by his worship of someone he has no control over.

Ed is mad at me because I keep mentioning SCI in a rather un flattering light.

All brought up by their own behavior, I might add.

It got to the stage where he was sending me nasty PMs because of my stand on SCI.

He did not have the courage to discuss it here on the forums.

I posted here that I was not answering his PMs.

Because discussing anything intelligent with a man who has a closed mind is pointless.

I feel rather sad for someone like Ed.

May be he should visit a brain doctor.

I wish him luck.

He will make a very nice project for a psychiatrist with lots of time on their hands.

Reminds me of the line from "Forrest Gump"
"Your boy is...different, Ms Gump. He's got an IQ of 75"

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:
Just received the following PM from Die Ou Jagter.

"FUCK OFF RAG HEAD!!!!!!"

Very classy indeed![/QUOTE

Kind of interesting for a guy who just referred to his lord a savior.

Not the worlds best behavior.

You'd think you would get a little latitude, respect even, on your own forum. Depressing.

For some people they find it impossible to disagree without being disagreeable. But I have to agree with you Larry . . . to resort to racial epithets at the same time you invoke the name of Jesus . . . that is truly over the top. There are too many folks today that walk around waiting to be offended. We could all benefit from developing a little thicker skin and understanding that not everyone shares our world view.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
For some people they find it impossible to disagree without being disagreeable. But I have to agree with you Larry . . . to resort to racial epithets at the same time you invoke the name of Jesus . . . that is truly over the top. There are too many folks today that walk around waiting to be offended. We could all benefit from developing a little thicker skin and understanding that not everyone shares our world view.

Maybe this is one of those "Terrible Deeds In the Name of Christ" our illustrious president just referenced today.

Jeff

After reading this entire snot rocket of a thread, I must admit I am curious. What is the thinking behind the dirty tribalism that is defending or attacking CB?

For those who defend CB, WHY? He is an adult and has the ability to defend himself. It's a sorry form of hero worship to stop your life to log on and defend CB. Is your family life so crappy that this is preferable? You would rather do this than go shooting or plan your next hunt, or at least get in shape for it? What's the point? Of all the people falsely accused, Why all the effort to defend this one?

And for those who attempt to verbally ream CB in this post and at nearly every opportunity, what's the point? It reads like the most common type of jealousy. If everything you claim was actually true, it would just make CB one of at least a billion similar people on this planet. Why is this one turd in a pile 2 miles high, so offensive compared to the others?

Lets go do some reloading and head to the range and leave this BS behind us.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Just received the following PM from Die Ou Jagter.

"FUCK OFF RAG HEAD!!!!!!"

Very classy indeed!

Sad, unacceptable, and inexcusable.

I have not been here as long as most nor have I been as active as most on this forum. I always try to give everyone the respect he or she deserves. I believe that Die Ou Jagter should be permanently removed from this forum. This type of behavior is inexcusable and not acceptable by any standards. It is amazing how many people will type things that they will not have the balls to say to someone's face and hide behind a key board. I enjoy a heated debate and good discussion, but never think something needs to get very personal. Especially racist. In theory everyone on this forum shares a passion for hunting, in particular hunting in Africa, so there should be common ground. He may try to apologize, but once that shot is fired, the hole is permanent. He needs to find a different site to infect.

The phrase "looking a gift horse in the mouth" comes to mind.

I haven't had much exposure to a lot of very active SCI members, but with the few I have come across SCI is an absolute religion with them.

Sad indeed.

I went back and read this entire thread. While there are certainly comments that are not positive toward CB, I did not consider this thread to be bashing CB relentlessly. It would be easy enough to publish the chapter 7 bankruptcy filing and analyze the details on line if someone really wanted to bash him.

Personally, I have never met Ed. There have most certainly been a few times over the years when his posts were over the top. This is particularly true when it comes to CB and SCI.

In general terms , I think Ed over reacted to what were in reality relatively mild comments about CB. This is not the first time he has over reacted. While an over reaction does not surprise me based upon past actions , the PM to Saeed does surprise me. It was wrong .

Why does Ed act this way? My guess is that deep down he is a pretty decent and incredibly loyal guy. In his mind, he sees a friend being skewered unmercifully in this thread. This friend, CB, is someone he both admires and respects. He is attempting to be loyal and protective of his friend.

Being loyal and protective of ones friends is not a bad thing . Like anything else, there can be too much of a good thing . Clearly, there was way too much loyalty here. The line was crossed. No doubt.

It is just a discussion and comments will always differ but that kinda name calling?
Not cool

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
If one read the bankruptcy filing, one's opinion might not be so charitable.

Exactly!

Sadly, sometimes hero worship goes far beyond any reason.

"For some people they find it impossible to disagree without being disagreeable."

I find it difficult to agree and still be agreeable.

quote:

Maybe he should visit a brain doctor.

Afraid the brain specialist might be faced with some technical difficulties as he would require a brain to work on.

That said, I have noticed his fervent supporters have not been so vocal in the recent past and several others who have sided and shared his views on this thread might consider following him.

quote:

Originally posted by ForrestB:
"For some people they find it impossible to disagree without being disagreeable."

I find it difficult to agree and still be agreeable.

But, the point is non of us have any control over what happens to CB.

And that all the information is freely available on the Internet.

Once anyone reads that, they can form their own opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by tendrams:
Reading this thread is like walking in a sewer.

Actually, someone forgot to flush the thread toilette - but, maybe he or we like the smell.

I finally made the mistake of reading this thread. It perfectly illustrates why I spend much less time on AR than I did in the past.

AR is great
I anyone doesn't wanna be on it, they'll find reason not to
I only know Craig from meeting him few times and talking to him, books and hunting shows
That said, if I dismissed everyone that has done something that I or anyone else has a problem with, I'd be without friends
Life is as good as we make it
Some of you are like a bunch of old women or grumpy old men
Cheer up...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Having a heart attack in Africa and nearly dying will age most over 55 quite a lot.

Craig is still the man to me. I have yet to hear anyone say he has engaged in any illegal or immoral activities and show any proof.

7 Pm's in one day, Saeed. I feel like I just dropped of the Ton Ten list...

Three divorces and a child out of wedlock makes me wonder about the "immoral" aspect.

quote:

Originally posted by thirdbite:
Ya know, I've never met nor seen Boddington, but from what has been discussed here, he seems like an average guy - much like most of us, I suspect, but with a little more success in his field and a lot more fame and notoriety. I suspect many of us would behave much like him in similar circumstances. He's neither sinner nor saint.

That is the right attitude - and one we all would be wise to emulate.

AR is a precious resource for the hunting community and we should respect it and treat it and one another with civility or we will lose by it. Already, my enthusiasm for some posters has declined. We all make judgments, even on careless remarks by others.

Whatever anyone may say about Craig, we cannot deny that he is one of the leading writers on a matter we care about, and an absolutely driven, obsessed hunter and gun enthusiast. In other words, like a lot of us. He is another valuable resource and I suspect that many are more than a little envious of him. (I know I am.)

As others have said, he probably has hunted more game, in more parts of the world, with more kinds of guns, calibers and types of cartridges than anyone alive or dead.

No one can take that away from him. He has even had heart attacks on safari and bounced right back to continue his hectic pace.

I have seen the bankruptcy papers and I know about the divorces. You are free to hold your own opinion about those. While I do not know him personally, I have read many of his books and articles, going way back, and feel I know something about the type of person he is from his writings and history.

I also know, as I'm sure many others here do, what the role of bankruptcy is supposed to be: a chance to acknowledge mistakes and start again with a clean slate. Again, I saw the details, I read between the lines based on 50 years of experience as a business lawyer, and I am not dissatisfied.

I'd give him some slack on the divorces too. A guy in his line of work cannot be easy to live with.

quote:

Originally posted by Leopardtrack:
I also said that going on expensive safari's after claiming bankruptcy doesn't sit well with me. I am not an attorney and I don't know much about bankruptcy other than the fact that somebody is getting fucked out of their money.
How would you like to be one of his creditors that lost their money to CB, and then find out that he just dropped $100,000 on a safari??
I know that I would be pissed, how about you??

The above does look damning at first glance, but did it ever cross anyone’s mind that the hunt may have been booked and paid for before the BR. If so going on the hunt would be part of his recovery for film footage, and text for magazine articles. The whole idea of a BR is to give you a re-start! A person who files a BR is still allowed to try to make a living, RIGHT?

You be the JUDGE, & JURY, I’ll look from my position of ignorance of all the facts that others here seem to have!

………………………………………………………….................................................................. .

quote:

The above does look damning at first glance, but did it ever cross anyone’s mind that the hunt may have been booked and paid for before the BR.

Let's take this one step further. Has anyone considered that Craig might have been invited to take that hunt at no charge? I have known the man for more than three decades, beginning as a fellow team member at a celebrity hunt, then as a member of the SCI record book committee, then as his editor, and then as a member of an African hunting panel I moderated at SCI conventions for many years.

I know of no other contemporary outdoor writer who works harder at his craft, or who is more knowledgeable, or more respected among our peers in the outdoor writing business than Craig.

So far, this thread has ignored the fact that those who have large print or broadcast audiences are constantly approached with more offers for "comped" hunting trips, airline tickets, guns and gear than they can possibly accept.

Some writers set personal standards that include showing their readers a product's or an outfitter's warts. Others may warn gift-givers before a free hunt that they will not write about the hunt if things are not as they should be. Others sell their souls for handouts. Readers who follow a writer soon know in which category that writer should be placed.

In editing hundreds of Craig's articles for SCI's publications, I never saw him unduly "puff" anything or anyone. I cannot say the same for all of the writers who submitted articles to me.

I have not talked with Craig about his bankruptcy. It is none of my business. I do know that there are two sides to every story and his is yet to be told. If it ever is, it won't be on this site. He no longer visits AccurateReloading.com and it is our loss.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:
I have not talked with Craig about his bankruptcy. It is none of my business. I do know that there are two sides to every story and his is yet to be told. If it ever is, it won't be on this site. He no longer visits AccurateReloading.com and it is our loss.

Bill Quimby

..................................................................Absolutely!

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

quote:

The above does look damning at first glance, but did it ever cross anyone’s mind that the hunt may have been booked and paid for before the BR.

Let's take this one step further. Has anyone considered that Craig might have been invited to take that hunt at no charge? I have known the man for more than three decades, beginning as a fellow team member at a celebrity hunt, then as a member of the SCI record book committee, then as his editor, and then as a member of an African hunting panel I moderated at SCI conventions for many years.

I know of no other contemporary outdoor writer who works harder at his craft, or who is more knowledgeable, or more respected among our peers in the outdoor writing business than Craig.

So far, this thread has ignored the fact that those who have large print or broadcast audiences are constantly approached with more offers for "comped" hunting trips, airline tickets, guns and gear than they can possibly accept.

Some writers set personal standards that include showing their readers a product's or an outfitter's warts. Others may warn gift-givers before a free hunt that they will not write about the hunt if things are not as they should be. Others sell their souls for handouts. Readers who follow a writer soon know in which category that writer should be placed.

In editing hundreds of Craig's articles for SCI's publications, I never saw him unduly "puff" anything or anyone. I cannot say the same for all of the writers who submitted articles to me.

I have not talked with Craig about his bankruptcy. It is none of my business. I do know that there are two sides to every story and his is yet to be told. If it ever is, it won't be on this site. He no longer visits AccurateReloading.com and it is our loss.

Bill Quimby

Bill


I have no views on Craig Boddington or really don't care much for this or any other hunting celebrity thread - positive or negative.


My questions are much broader

Is there any discloser in the hunting media (print and TV) of hunts being comped ?

How can viewers and readers be assured what they are reading is not advertising - native advertising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_F5GxCwizc

Everything I have ever read in hunting gun media has always seemed like fluff. All guns shoot MOA, no bad hunts and everything thru rose colored glasses.

Is all of hunting and gun media just paid advertising?

Mike

We should all just stop posting here and just let this thread die

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

quote:

The above does look damning at first glance, but did it ever cross anyone’s mind that the hunt may have been booked and paid for before the BR.

Let's take this one step further. Has anyone considered that Craig might have been invited to take that hunt at no charge? I have known the man for more than three decades, beginning as a fellow team member at a celebrity hunt, then as a member of the SCI record book committee, then as his editor, and then as a member of an African hunting panel I moderated at SCI conventions for many years.

I know of no other contemporary outdoor writer who works harder at his craft, or who is more knowledgeable, or more respected among our peers in the outdoor writing business than Craig.

So far, this thread has ignored the fact that those who have large print or broadcast audiences are constantly approached with more offers for "comped" hunting trips, airline tickets, guns and gear than they can possibly accept.

Some writers set personal standards that include showing their readers a product's or an outfitter's warts. Others may warn gift-givers before a free hunt that they will not write about the hunt if things are not as they should be. Others sell their souls for handouts. Readers who follow a writer soon know in which category that writer should be placed.

In editing hundreds of Craig's articles for SCI's publications, I never saw him unduly "puff" anything or anyone. I cannot say the same for all of the writers who submitted articles to me.

I have not talked with Craig about his bankruptcy. It is none of my business. I do know that there are two sides to every story and his is yet to be told. If it ever is, it won't be on this site. He no longer visits AccurateReloading.com and it is our loss.

Bill Quimby

Bill


I have no views on Craig Boddington or really don't care much for this or any other hunting celebrity thread - positive or negative.


My questions are much broader

Is there any discloser in the hunting media (print and TV) of hunts being comped ?

How can viewers and readers be assured what they are reading is not advertising - native advertising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_F5GxCwizc

Everything I have ever read in hunting gun media has always seemed like fluff. All guns shoot MOA, no bad hunts and everything thru rose colored glasses.

Is all of hunting and gun media just paid advertising?

Mike

Your last sentence is just about right!

It has always been that way, and will be as long as writers are getting paid.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

quote:

The above does look damning at first glance, but did it ever cross anyone’s mind that the hunt may have been booked and paid for before the BR.

Let's take this one step further. Has anyone considered that Craig might have been invited to take that hunt at no charge? I have known the man for more than three decades, beginning as a fellow team member at a celebrity hunt, then as a member of the SCI record book committee, then as his editor, and then as a member of an African hunting panel I moderated at SCI conventions for many years.

I know of no other contemporary outdoor writer who works harder at his craft, or who is more knowledgeable, or more respected among our peers in the outdoor writing business than Craig.

So far, this thread has ignored the fact that those who have large print or broadcast audiences are constantly approached with more offers for "comped" hunting trips, airline tickets, guns and gear than they can possibly accept.

Some writers set personal standards that include showing their readers a product's or an outfitter's warts. Others may warn gift-givers before a free hunt that they will not write about the hunt if things are not as they should be. Others sell their souls for handouts. Readers who follow a writer soon know in which category that writer should be placed.

In editing hundreds of Craig's articles for SCI's publications, I never saw him unduly "puff" anything or anyone. I cannot say the same for all of the writers who submitted articles to me.

I have not talked with Craig about his bankruptcy. It is none of my business. I do know that there are two sides to every story and his is yet to be told. If it ever is, it won't be on this site. He no longer visits AccurateReloading.com and it is our loss.

Bill Quimby

Bill


I have no views on Craig Boddington or really don't care much for this or any other hunting celebrity thread - positive or negative.


My questions are much broader

Is there any discloser in the hunting media (print and TV) of hunts being comped ?

How can viewers and readers be assured what they are reading is not advertising - native advertising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_F5GxCwizc

Everything I have ever read in hunting gun media has always seemed like fluff. All guns shoot MOA, no bad hunts and everything thru rose colored glasses.

Is all of hunting and gun media just paid advertising?

Mike

100% yes !!! Nobody that does anything to this scale in the hunting/shooting industry is doing it for charity.

quote:

My questions are much broader

Is there any discloser in the hunting media (print and TV) of hunts being comped ? How can viewers and readers be assured what they are reading is not advertising - native advertising.

Saeed:

Lesser-known gun writers are loaned firearms and are expected to return them. (They usally are given the ammo and components they shoot.) "Established" writers, dating all the way back to Whelen, O'Connor, Page, Keith, etc. to the present, may or may not have to return the guns they receive to test.

Clothing, optics, and equipment manufacturers regularly send free samples to outdoor writers in the hope that Johnny Gunscribe will be photographed wearing or using their stuff, and perhaps mention it in an article.

Many who are launching hunting outfits and hunting agencies offer free or greatly discounted hunts to those who have a history of selling articles in hunting magazines. Some established outfitters have developed friendships with certain writers and invite them to their camps. Airlines, hunting lodges, even government tourism agencies offer all-expenses-paid "VIP press tours" that include a few days of hunting.

I doubt there is anyone who makes his entire living as an outdoor, hunting or gun writer who has never accepted such gifts. The wanna-be types hit the Shot Show and the various hunting shows and run around with their hands out. The real pros do not have to ask. It comes to them.

"Comps" are not restricted to the firearms and hunting industries. "Perks" also are given those who specialize in writing about travel, autos, and a dozen other things.

It's called "public relations," not advertising. "Disclosers" are not required.

Bill Quimby

quote:

Originally posted by billrquimby:

quote:

My questions are much broader

Is there any discloser in the hunting media (print and TV) of hunts being comped ? How can viewers and readers be assured what they are reading is not advertising - native advertising.

Saeed:

Lesser-known gun writers are loaned firearms and are expected to return them. (They usally are given the ammo and components they shoot.) "Established" writers, dating all the way back to Whelen, O'Connor, Page, Keith, etc. to the present, may or may not have to return the guns they receive to test.

Clothing, optics, and equipment manufacturers regularly send free samples to outdoor writers in the hope that Johnny Gunscribe will be photographed wearing or using their stuff, and perhaps mention it in an article.

Many who are launching hunting outfits and hunting agencies offer free or greatly discounted hunts to those who have a history of selling articles in hunting magazines. Some established outfitters have developed friendships with certain writers and invite them to their camps. Airlines, hunting lodges, even government tourism agencies offer all-expenses-paid "VIP press tours" that include a few days of hunting.

I doubt there is anyone who makes his entire living as an outdoor, hunting or gun writer who has never accepted such gifts. The wanna-be types hit the Shot Show and the various hunting shows and run around with their hands out. The real pros do not have to ask. It comes to them.

"Comps" are not restricted to the firearms and hunting industries. "Perks" also are given those who specialize in writing about travel, autos, and a dozen other things.

It's called "public relations," not advertising. "Disclosers" are not required.

Bill Quimby

Thank you Bill.

That is how we have always thought it was.

And that is why I never pay attention to what those writers recommend unless I have first hand experience of it.

Some of the current TV shows for instance, seem to think the viewers are so stupid it defies comprehension.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
[
Thank you Bill.

That is how we have always thought it was.

And that is why I never pay attention to what those writers recommend unless I have first hand experience of it.

Some of the current TV shows for instance, seem to think the viewers are so stupid it defies comprehension.

Of course you are right on all counts. Bill Quimby should know.

"Never pay attention," though, may be too strong of most of us. Most claims we encounter need to be tested, but that doesn't mean we discount them entirely. We weed through the chaff and take it provisionally for what it is worth.

In Japan, where both hunting and English TV programing is limited, we see almost nothing that is hunting related, so I am not exposed to the stupid shows you mention, other than ones about military-related guns and a few items like Alaska gold prospecting. However, I am not at all surprised at your comment.

As for Boddington, no doubt he gets plenty of gifts and lately he seems to be trying to get endorsement contracts. I suspect that he is not in great financial condition. Most gun writers aren't. However, taking his writings as a whole, he is or seems to me to be pretty objective about equipment and complimentary of many other people in the hunting trade.

quote:

Originally posted by Anjin:
I suspect that he is not in great financial condition. Most gun writers aren't. However, taking his writings as a whole, he is or seems to me to be pretty objective about equipment and complimentary of many other people in the hunting trade.

“Thank you, Norm. You’ve captured what I was trying to say. In my dealings over more than three decades with Craig, I found his reporting to be head and shoulders above that of most of the writers who submitted articles to Safari magazine.

As for Saeed’s question as to how to tell if a writer is prostituting his craft, no disclaimer is needed. For example:

My plains game safari began when the South African Airways 737 jet landed at Johannesburg’s Oliver Tembo International and I was met by Jannie de Beersmann of Dead Right There Safaris and his lovely wife Milicent. They quickly got me and my gear through customs with a minimum of delay. (It was just one of dozens of things this handsome and hardworking couple did over the next seven days to make my safari such a success.)

I had told them I would be wearing Cabela’s Super Safari Togs, a belt tooled by Dennis Smith in genuine Cape buffalo leather with a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation buckle from Sportsman’s Warehouse, my favorite 10X Stetson and my signature red and gold Tony Lama boots, so they had no trouble spotting me in the crush of other travelers outside customs.

I had packed my Magnaported Ruger Model 77 in .375 H&H Magnum sporting a Leupold 3-9X duplex scope and a Marbles sling in a Tufflex case along with Swarovski’s newest 10X compact bino, my model 27 Leica 1000 rangefinder, and my custom Rob Carlton damascus steel knife. My ammo (Norma cases with Hornady’s best 300-grain softs) was packed in a separate case made by Allied Plastics from Midway USA.

Everything (including me) had come across the pond in good shape, and for this I credit Cabela’s durable safari duffels, Tufflex’s great Model 37 case, SAA’s friendly and efficient cabin crew and comfortable business-class cabin, and a VIP Lounge Card from Morgan Co. in San Francisco that allowed me to rest up in style in Dallas while waiting to board my SAA overnight flight.
My friend, Tony Smith-Jones. the public relations specialist at SAA's New York office had told me the flight had the latest in-flight movies, and he was absolutely correct ...,."

See what I mean?

Bill Quimby

Bill,

My issues is more with the fact we never hear anything negative about trips, products or hunting experiences.

If something is negative it is chalked up to weather or this is hunting.

When was the last time anyone in the gun media said a firearm sucked ?

Cz is actually selling its catalog as a half magazine - half catalog. I was at bass pro today buying some clearance shoes (i am cheap). I saw the magazine catalog in the checkout lane.

Had some story on hunting in africa - i snapped a picture as it was Mike Payne. Returned the magazine/catalog - $9 bucks for it - as i said I am cheap.

Did send the picture to mike payne telling him he is now a celebrity.

Why hunt reports positive and negative have far more value for me. Would reports on Andrew/fairgame have more value or a fluff article written about him ?

Mike