Have you ever done business with Ray Atkinson? What was your experience with the booking of your Africa hunt? Thanks for your time.

Questor,

Are you for real?

Do a name search on Ray he had like 12 millon posts until he decided that he was not going to play on this sight anymore.

I personally have done one booking direct with Ray. The booking was for some of Ray's own clients whom were coming to hunt with us but due to circumstances beyond anyones control the clients had to cancel out before the hunt took place.

Ray had already sent me the booking deposit and upon cancellation I duly returned the deposit back to Ray.

There were absolutely no problems at all either from my side or from Ray's so in my personal experience it was 100% straight up

Cheers, Peter

Ray is a good man! A friend!

I booked my trip to RSA and Zim in 2004 with Ray, and booked with him again for Tanzania in 2005, and am booking with him for Tanzania in 2007, and will continue to book with him until one of us gets old and decides to call it quits.

I have booked 5 past hunts or Safaris with Ray Atkinson.

Some friends and I just booked another with him for next year.

All the hunts I have booked with Ray in the past have been everything I hoped for.

I tried to talk to him about a trip, but he wouldn't give me the time of day. This was about two years ago. I used Keith Atcheson instead.

Maybe Ray didn't think I was serious.

JPK

I haven't booked with him, but have called him a couple of times. I found him to be knowlegeable, courteous, and patient.
Brice

I have never booked with him, but did talk to him a couple of times about hunts. I found him to be easy to talk to but got nervous when he said he "owned" a concession in partnership with a PH. I could not verify the facts and felt I got vague answers to some direct questions. His references checked out, however.

There was a major train wreck that was long discussed on this board about a hunt gone bad that he was involved in. THe major players in that mess settled up and I think it blew over, but did not know the final outcome.

He seems to be a man of his word but.. check things out in detail and get everything in writing is always a good way to keep everyone's memory sharp...

Ray is a good man, and a good friend! I'd book with him in a heartbeat!

quote:

Originally posted by Questor:
Have you ever done business with Ray Atkinson? What was your experience with the booking of your Africa hunt? Thanks for your time.

This previous thread might enlighten you a little:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/832103933/p/1

Not to mention this one, which is most likely the longest thread in AR history:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6321043/m/837102853/p/1

Keep in mind though that he edited/deleted a very large portion of his posts later on. So it can be hard to see the whole picture now...

The whole picture was never there!

Right on Mac. Ray is a good guy (took me a while to figure that out...), I would send him my hard earned $$$ (especially if I were going on a hunt with Pierre) in a second and never give it another thought.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
The whole picture was never there!

What was missing?

Unlike most here I don't blame Ray for Sheephunters troubles. He seemed to have entered after the deal was made.

I do blame PVT for being dishonest and for selling something he did not have and had absolutely no hope of attaining.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
The whole picture was never there!

The whole picture of Rays poor behaviour towards a client most certainly was there. But isn't anymore due to his posts being edited.

I for one would not use an agent that so openly crapped all over a client for coming on AR and asking questions after he was told his hunt was being moved...

I have booked two hunts through Ray, one in Tanzania and one in New Mexico. I also hunted with Ray on two occasions and have no reservations of booking or hunting with Ray in the future. I think you'll be happy with Ray.

I have not read the old threads posted and do not intend to............I do however note just from the posts on this thread that it has once again raised some concerns I have always had with bashing on hunting and shooting forums.

It is all too easy for someone to thrash a company or outfitter on forums. There is no recourse for those getting hammered in print on the forum and no real way to rectify the damage once it has been done.

There are bad outfitters, guides, PH's and booking agents..........there are also lots of poor clients. As a business person I would never feel free to come on a forum and tell everyone in cyberspace what a moron someone was that I booked on a hunt or personally guided, after they had gone on the forum and had their say about something.

I personally do not think it is very professional and after the damage has been done it doesn't matter what you say, many will simply take it as CYA. The truth will not matter to a great degree anymore than it does in the daily newpapers. Once the damage is done it is too late and only turns into a pissing contest.

Discrete PM's and e-mails are the way it should be handled when you want to advise of problems, not open bashing.

Just my two cents.............and I know many will disagree. It is also one of the reasons that I find myself having less and less to do with forums.

Gentlemen, in all fairness, you must realize that I do not follow the AFRICAN HUNT REPORTS forum at all. Maybe the editing, you speak of, had already been done before I saw the pissing contest that went on on AFRICAN BIG GAME HUNTING forum. The problem here is, as Skyline says, one tends to believe the first account of any story one hears. That alone is why these things should never be tried in the Kangaroo courts of the internet!

Did anyone here ever consider the fact that maybe PVT was sold a bill of goods as well, thinking he had the concession locked in? NO??, well that certainly crossed my mind! How many of the folks here who put the whole affair on the shoulders of Ray, and PVT, because of what Sheephunter said, and have never seen the pictures of sheep hunters hunt, and trophies?

I'm not saying that another place might not have been better quality, where trophies are concerned, but the trophies I saw in the pictures, were not bad, not record bookers for sure, but good, and no matter where you hunt sometimes that is what you get. Thats why it's called "HUNTING", and not "SELECTING"!

With what I had to go on here on the net, I simply saw a KANGAROO COURT of know-it-alls simply takeing the word of a guy who may simply be a spoiled hard to please dope, who thinks his $30K was a guarintee, of getting his name in the R/W book, with every trophy he shot,and not getting his lion because he refused to buy baits. Maybe not, but since I know both the guys getting trashed, and I don't know Sheephunter, or his brother, I have to go with what I've seen personally, and I will certainly not go along with the lenching party I saw here who were simply takeing the word of the first one that screamed foul in public, and afterwards, discounting anything anyone else had to say on the matter. I don't think this forum was the place for this conflict, that should have been in a REAL court, not before a lench mob! The above result is the exact reason the old phrase was coined, "He who defends himself in a court of law, has a fool for a client"! People say things in anger their lawyer would never allow, because the blurtings of an angry man are seldom smart, and rarely completely true. So a smart man simply says nothing, and lets the idiots spew their guts to the world, because it make no sense to say anything to a lench mob!

Unlike the guys tieing the hangman's rope here, I will not hang a man on one man's word who doesn't present enough evidence to convict, and may be simply blameing his own inadequacies on others! It seems some of you guys are like sharks, on a feeding frenzy, when you don't know any more than I do, because nither of us were there!

I'd say the damage done here is irrepareable, right or wrong, because you can't un-ring the bell, once you open your mouth without knowing what you are speaking about! Today, I'm as guilty as the rest,because this post is simply opinion, with about the same evidence the opposition has, NONE! The two people you trashed are ruined, beyond repair, I hope you were right, but I doubt it!

Here we go again......

quote:

I will not hang a man on one man's word who doesn't present enough evidence to convict, and may be simply blameing his own inadequacies on others!

Mac,

I most certainly agree. However, the difference is that Ray hung himself, due to his his own behaviour, on his own posts. And then he went back and edited them to cover his tracks. None of these actions tempt me into booking a hunt with such a person.

Not to mention that it seems Rays many embellishments and inaccuracies in his past posts that didn't have anything to do with Sheephunter, also finally caught up with him too...

Mac,

You are right on the money about what is being said or more importantly, not said. I read a good deal of the posts last year about Ray and PVT and have remained quiet because really all of the bull crap here on AR did nothing to harm either Ray or PVT's business. I think it is funny as hell that some people thought that just because they post here, someone was going to take what they said as the truth about a hunt that took place thousands of miles from their computer keyboards and most of what was said was extremely biased anyway. PVT is a good friend of mine, and so is Ray. I took PVT hunting on my land in Georgia before I ever went to Africa with him. I have met his wife, and know several members of their family. He runs a first class operation and Ray is an excellent booking agent. Those who attacked them over the Sheephunter incident did so with a pack dog mentatlity, but there was no harm done. PVT was booked up this year, and is almost booked up next year and will continue to do a good business until he decides he's has enough. There are those who know the truth about the Sheephunter fiasco, but are gentlemen enough to remain quiet.

My problem with the whole fiasco was with the behavior of everyone involved. That includes all of us second guessing from the sidelines as well. I think emotions ran high and decorum was not what it should have been.

To answer the original question. Ray has his faults, but he is a good guy overall. He runs a good booking buisness that many of us have used quite satisfactorily. I would have no problem using him again despite his obvious faults. I have a bit of a quick temper myself when attacked. It isnt necesarrily right, but it is what it is.

Ray A. treated his customers and potential customers like shit on this forum. How anyone can argue that is a mystery to me. Time and again he did it. That is the real story. If I treated my customers like he did his, I think I would be out of business in a heartbeat.

I would not hesitate to book a hunt through Ray, Africa or otherwise, or hunt with PVT.
I saw Sheephunters pictures of both his hunts with PVT. The 2 buff he shot on his second hunt were very nice, I would have shot them in a heart beat.
Sheephunter was smiling BIG in every photo that I saw.

I would never expect any booking agent or PH to guarantee me an animal of a certain size.

Nothing wrong with asking "how big" has a such and such been taken in this area over the last 3 years. Then you know what is the average trophy quality in your area.

NE:

Who cares about the trophy? Ray wasn't the PH. Note that I didn't say "He treated Sheephunter like shit," I said he treated "his customers and potential customers" like shit. There are many, many threads in which Ray acted very rude to people. Go look in Big Game/American Hunting if you can't remember.

How many of you who support Ray own your own business? Would you treat your customers like he did/does? And if you work for a company, how many of you would have a job if you treated your customers the way Ray did on here?

Many of us have never hunted with Ray; our opinion on him is purely the result of his behavior. He is the one who created that impression.

You know, it isn't like Ray is the only guy out there. Look what Wendell did for one of his problem hunts. Actions speak louder than words.

We have booked two hunts with Ray, and Retreevers AR hunt was booked through Ray as well.

We have had absolutely no problems with any dealings with Ray. I consider him a friend, and will book with him without any hesitation whatsoever

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
.....and will book with him without any hesitation whatsoever

Same here.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
NE:

Who cares about the trophy? Ray wasn't the PH. Note that I didn't say "He treated Sheephunter like shit," I said he treated "his customers and potential customers" like shit. There are many, many threads in which Ray acted very rude to people. Go look in Big Game/American Hunting if you can't remember.

How many of you who support Ray own your own business? Would you treat your customers like he did/does? And if you work for a company, how many of you would have a job if you treated your customers the way Ray did on here?

Many of us have never hunted with Ray; our opinion on him is purely the result of his behavior. He is the one who created that impression.

Of course you probably won't agree with this opinion, but IMO, Ray was treated like shit too, and chose, perhaps unwisely, to respond in kind. Your opinion of Ray is based upon what you read on a message board, and not based upon any personal interaction or dealings with the man. It would be nice if everyone could just let this thing die, but I guess there are strong feeling here, much of it based upon no personal knowledge of the incident, but upon what others have posted.

I can tell you this much. I would never let what is posted on a message board prejudice me against any person unless it was a personal attack on me. I tend to take those personally (LOL). There is probably not one booking agent in the business about which I have not read something negative.

All I know is that Sheephunter came on and asked a question without naming names and Ray went ballistic.

So for me the question would be: "Do you want to be able to do research on the internet without your booking agent going ballistic and chewing you out in a public forum even though you didn't mention his name at all?"

I would think most would stay away.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We have booked two hunts with Ray, and Retreevers AR hunt was booked through Ray as well.

We have had absolutely no problems with any dealings with Ray. I consider him a friend, and will book with him without any hesitation whatsoever

What about booking another hunt for yourself with PVT?

Questor,

Go to the African Hunting Reports Forum, page 6 and read the thread "Back from DG hunt with Pierre v Tonder". That thread will tell you all you need to know about Ray as well as a few others on this website......

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanahile:
Questor,

Go to the African Hunting Reports Forum, page 6 and read the thread "Back from DG hunt with Pierre v Tonder". That thread will tell you all you need to know about Ray as well as a few others on this website......

You've got to be kidding me! 92648 views, and 1669 posts on one string containing 42 pages, I had one post, and 80% of the rest of the posts were from four individuals! That's got to be a record for a pissing contest, even here!

I have booked 3 hunts with Ray and Pierre.
Every thing right out in front. No hidden details. Will book with Ray again
Pierre was hard working to get the animals you
wanted. Ran a good with Frendly staft and lots
of fun to be with.

I've said this before but will say it again, since you ask, I would not hesitate one minute to book with Ray. There are many of his clients who would say the same. As for hunting with PVT, I have just returned (Sept.7, 06) from a 21 day hunt in Tanzania with his fine crew and enjoyed his excellent camp! I will book with Ray again and will hunt with PVT again!

I returned from the Selous with PVT last week and will hunt with him anyday, anytime. His son Clinton is also very good and I think the same of him. In 5 safaris to the Dark Continent, PVT was the best. Ray was also a pleasure to work with and I would book with him again.

The only time I have booked with Ray, it was a deer hunt out west. Things went awry that were not the fault of Ray, and Ray made sure I got my money back. He was as good as his word and very apologetic about the situation which was beyond his control. He gets touchy about perceived slurs on his good name, which ain't strange for a real westerner. I'd love to go on a hunt with him, and truly miss his crotchety old butt on this forum. Kudude