Saeed: There has been some discussion as to a lottery for a DG 45-70 hunt. I would like to sweeten the pot by offering to donate a NIB Spartan DBl Gun in 45-70 to be used on this trip. If it will help get the lottery off the ground.
This rifle was on my display rack and handled though it is in pristine condition, contact me if interested.

cats,

The simplest thing would be for you to save your money and pay for your own DG .45-70 hunt.

George

Well if some one wins the 45/70 DG hunt, we probably won't have to worry about him winning a second raffle!



465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
cats,

The simplest thing would be for you to save your money and pay for your own DG .45-70 hunt.

George

Perfect answer George, thank you.

I still do not know what all the fuss is about. The 45-70 will kill a buffalo just as dead as any other caliber provided you hit it in the right place.

We held a DG .45-70 hunt a couple of years ago; the winner did not take the hunt due to problems with the outfitter, and was going to reschedule, but hasn't yet.

I'd rather wait for THAT hunt to occur before trying to run another raffle.

George

Where did you get a Spartan 45/70? I can't even get Remington to guess at an availability date. Playing "Where's the Spartan?" has been a popular game on the Big Bore forum.

George: I wasn't offering the Spartan for any reason other than to be nice and try to be helpfull. If I wanted to take it on my own buff or tuskless elephant hunt I would purchase such a trip and take it....Geeze talk about slapping a extended palm!
Art. When Rem took over the production of this line those that had been slated as demo mdls were disatirbuted to some distributors. As with any "new" mdl some distibutors get trickled the first ones passing them to dealers on their whims.

quote:

Originally posted by cats:
George: I wasn't offering the Spartan for any reason other than to be nice and try to be helpfull. If I wanted to take it on my own buff or tuskless elephant hunt I would purchase such a trip and take it....Geeze talk about slapping a extended palm!

cats,

It has been my long experience that those who propose a DG/.45-70 raffle tend to be a) .45-70 proponents, and, b) unwilling to spend their own money to take such a hunt, and are looking for others to subsidize the trip.

We held a raffle; it still hasn't been taken, two years later. Let's see if it ever is.

George

Saeed!
I was trying to be humourous. I agree that buffalo aren't armoured plated tanks and the 45/70 should be plenty of gun for buff assuming proper bullets, velocity and shot placement. But we can say that also about bigger calibers.

465H&H

If a guy wants to break the law a little, let him pay for a hunt himself, take a 45-70, and then report his success right here. Brian Pearce and Vince Lupo each did that. However, the Lupo report was so obviously fiction that nothing in it could be relied on (4 out of 6 DG animals charging? That is unheard of.). And Pearce's article left enough unsaid to raise some serious doubts. So nothing has been settled.

Nor is anything likely to be settled by one guy shooting a buffalo with a 45-70. Or 10 guys. Show me an SCI magazine filled with guys posting with buff and ele shot with 45-70's, show me that the cartridge and rifle have proven themselves well enough to be considered mainstream for thick skinned DG, and the 45-70 guys would have a case. Until then, it's just more fantasy ballistics and fantasy hunting. Let's have some real hunting and some real results.

Cats,
I got a better idea. . .save your money and post your pictures of you and your 45/70 with your trophies, when your get back!

George I admit to having a soft spot for the 45-70 surely nothing wrong with that. As well you are correct....whom better to donate a 45-70 to a lottery for a DG 45-70 safari that someone who likes the 45-70.
I am insulted that you and others would feel that anyone whom owns/likes a 45-70 couldn't possibly afford to make a DG hunt and needs someone else to pay for it. Truth be told if I wanted to go on a DG hunt be it Buff or elephant I could readily do it myself I go on 2 or 3 trips to BC or Ak every year.

Actually, the old 375 has always been my weapon of choice, but I think I just may go and buy me a 45-70! I don't know why it wouldn't take down a buffalo.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Well if some one wins the 45/70 DG hunt, we probably won't have to worry about him winning a second raffle!



465H&H

Excellent response!!

Just my take, but I've been around a while..........do we have a pattern with the 45/70 fans, seems like they want others to pay for a Africa hunt.

And this is a question, I take a lot of customers out to dinner and such…….but for some reason if I have one that wants to go to championship wrestling, do I need to get a 45/70 to have something in common. Also, is there any truth that most of the people that are abducted by aliens and see Bigfoot are 45/70 owners looking for a free hunt to Africa

quote:

It has been my long experience that those who propose a DG/.45-70 raffle tend to be a) .45-70 proponents, and, b) unwilling to spend their own money to take such a hunt, and are looking for others to subsidize the trip.

We held a raffle; it still hasn't been taken, two years later. Let's see if it ever is.

George,
What is your long experience with 45/70 raffles? We only had one. As to that hunt, Ann got ill and couldn't complete it. She has told me she will let us know the particulars when she decides to. I trust in her response to me.
As to the many folks who participated in the raffle, if you check back through the members who entered, quite a few could have easily afforded to do it on their own. The raffle was done in a spirit of fun, not the welfare senario suggested by a few here. If you look at the many entrants in Saeed's give-a-way hunt, I'm sure it sould indicate that money wasn't the draw there either. Just a chance to go hunt. BTW, no charge entry fee. I suppose your take would be that all that entered were really hard-up.
Also, as to your comment about those that submit raffles for 45/70 DG hunts, are proponets of the 45/70. I have many, many times, stated that I don't believe the 45/70 is a DG gun.
One more thing, just curious as to how many of the experts here have actually used a 45/70 in the pursuit of DG. I'll bet none.
One last thing, the owner of this site has stated that the 45/70 will take Buffalo if proper shots are taken. I'll go with his experience as he has taken many DG heads.

Roger QSL
PS, I won't be proposing any more raffles in the future. It seems the fun is gone.

quote:

Originally posted by Roger:

One more thing, just curious as to how many of the experts here have actually used a 45/70 in the pursuit of DG. I'll bet none.

Of course not, since it is illegal.

quote:

One last thing, the owner of this site has stated that the 45/70 will take Buffalo if proper shots are taken. I'll go with his experience as he has taken many DG heads.

That misses the point entirely. You can take buffalo with a .223 if proper shots are taken.

But what if the buffalo comes your way and a proper shot does not present itself? Can you resolve the situation then? That is really the issue.

just look at the ilk that posted smart ass posts here in reply to an offer I made for no other reason than to be gracious. That alone shows the balance of AR's membership the type of people they are. The same few that go out of their way to troll thruout the site! Sad very sad!! Cats

quote:

reply to an offer I made for no other reason than to be gracious.

Just curious, How does JD Jones shoot buff ect. with his contenders in 375 JDJ, 45/70, 475-45/70,
all underpowered ( sometimes with cast bullets!!!) hence illegle, and get away with it?

TSJ,

JD is a friend of mine, and an incredible shot, with handgun, rifle, and SMG. He took most of his DG years ago, when the rules were far more relaxed, and he always hunted with a PH armed with a rifle. If you are as experienced a hunter and expert a shot as JD, you can use just about any firearm to kill your DG. That isn't the debate here.

cats,
You're a newbie here, and OBVIOUSLY not acquainted with the long history of .45-70 'bwana-bes' pontificating about Cape buffalo (despite the fact they've never hunted them, or even seen one in the wild). If you don't like the 'ilk' of people here, you can leave for a .45-70 forum where you can all beat your chests in unison about how great the .45-70 should be on DG while hiding behind a keyboard.

Roger,
My long experience is with people PROPOSING these raffles. We've only had one raffle, and Ann said she didn't take the hunt because the outfitter bailed out, not that she got ill.
She's a booking agent, and hopefully will find the right situation to take that hunt in the near future.
As for the 'experts' here not having hunted DG with a .45-70, you're one of the biggest boosters of this idea, yet you haven't put YOUR money where your mouth is either.

It's a tiresome debate.

George

George my with your tact I see why Saeed made you a moderator.
As for the origin of my thread I may just sell this gun to one of the several offers I have been made since I posted it.
Don't look for me to make a similar offer (in any caliber) to help promote sport hunting on AR. Cats

Which rifles did you want to sell?
Post em! I might be interested.

quote:

Originally posted by cats:
George my with your tact I see why Saeed made you a moderator.
As for the origin of my thread I may just sell this gun to one of the several offers I have been made since I posted it.
Don't look for me to make a similar offer (in any caliber) to help promote sport hunting on AR. Cats

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

George

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
We've only had one raffle, and Ann said she didn't take the hunt because the outfitter bailed out, not that she got ill.
She's a booking agent, and hopefully will find the right situation to take that hunt in the near future.

.....................

It's a tiresome debate.

George

Ann can answer for herself but she went TWICE I believe. The first time the outfitter went West. My guess is warvets or something. Then she went again and took Mike Dettore as the guest and was ill on the safari and as a result it finished early with no buffalo hunted.

Whether or not a third attempt is to be made ......... I don't know.


I agree entirely with your last comment.

**********

"cats"

You don't have a photo of you holding this "Spartan" .45/70 on hand do you?

It would be good to see what they look like in the "flesh" (rather than marketing photos) as a lot of guys are very interested in them.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

"cats"

You don't have a photo of you holding this "Spartan" .45/70 on hand do you?

It would be good to see what they look like in the "flesh" (rather than marketing photos) as a lot of guys are very interested in them.

Nitro

I don't know about the Spartan but I have some pictures of 'cats' posing with some animals he shot with his bow.

Gentlemen,

Here is a deal for those who are so fond hunting buffalo with a 45-70.

Pay all expenses for one of our safaris, and I promise to hunt everything on that safari with a 45-70. I will arrange to have the whole hunt filmed, and free DVD will be give to whever wishes to have them.

Saeed, that is a great idea! We all know that a good number of buffalo will be taken, and you have an impeccable track record of disseminating reports, photos and video a very short time after your return from the field. The video quality is always excellent. This is practically a "no-risk" deal for those that really want to know.

In the interest of science, and putting this issue to bed, maybe cats and some of the other "45/70 guys" can pool thier resources to make this happen. Sortofa "put your money where your mouth is" kinda deal.

Cheers,
Canuck

Now we are on the right track! Saeed, go ahead and mark me down for a copy of the video please.

Lets see if there are any takers on that!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Gentlemen,

Here is a deal for those who are so fond hunting buffalo with a 45-70.

Pay all expenses for one of our safaris, and I promise to hunt everything on that safari with a 45-70. I will arrange to have the whole hunt filmed, and free DVD will be give to whever wishes to have them.

Cool!!! But it has to be a lever action.

Personally I have no doubt that an accomplished rifleman could use a 45-70, to take any of the big five. However I am not that accomplished of a rifleman, nor am I that lacking in care for my own safety and well being that I would pretend to be.

The real truth is that an accomplished rifleman with years of DG hunting experience would not use an underpowered, antiquated round, knowing full well if the sh!t hit the fan he would be in a poor position to sort out the mess.

There is no argument that the 45/70 would not work, the argument is that there are so many cartridges out there, that are better suited for the task at hand, thats why PH's don't carry 45/70's.
If you want a DG rifle go get one but don't try to make the 45/70 into something it is only marginal for.

Maybe saeed will have a raffle for a 45/70 DG hunt funeral!!!

George,

Gee I must of missed the other proposed 45/70 raffles.

Saeed,

I'll be glad to donate the first $25.00 for your proposed hunt. Hope you don't get put in the po-boys group of 45/70 hunters.
Now, get 999 of the anti's to send in and we should get this non-sense off the site.HI

PS, I'm not sending in if Walter is going to manage the monies.HI

Roger QSL

Saeed:I'll send you $25 towards the trip too! But if I'm paying the full boat for myself I want to go and have you do the filming.
Now let's see how many none 45-70 believers are willing to send in their $25.

OK, here is the deal, you guys take up a collection and buy me a pre 64 30-30 Saddle Ring Carbine and I will kill a Buffalo with it...Or a 7x57 Custom Mauser, or maybe 54 Caliber Browning Muzzle Loader, take your pick, how about a 44 magnum pistol?....buy me an airline ticket, and pay Pierre 1/2 price....

These are stunts, and prove absolutly nothing..

I have shot buff with a 8x57 and mil. ball ammo that shot about every 3rd round, it worked, but certainly didn't prove to me the 8x57 with ball ammo was a buffalo gun and I won't every have an opertunity to do that again thank goodness.. Brian Pierce or anyone else shooting buff with a 45-70 proves nothing except he killed a buffalo. However, after reading Brians article and him chasing and shooting that Buffalo a number of times over a very long chase indicates to me the 8x57 was the better caliber perhaps. Sometimes I think folks just read the part of the article they want to believe...

As to anyone shooting a buffalo with any caliber, I don't care, its up to them in our free society, just don't try and justify it with BS.....

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:

"cats"

You don't have a photo of you holding this "Spartan" .45/70 on hand do you?

It would be good to see what they look like in the "flesh" (rather than marketing photos) as a lot of guys are very interested in them.

Nitro

I don't know about the Spartan but I have some pictures of 'cats' posing with some animals he shot with his bow.

I will make cats a serious offer. If he can prove that he is the fellow that was in the 1950's bowhunting pictures he posted and claimed to be under the wynwood handle, then I will pay for a cape buffalo hunt for him and his 45-70.

[note: But if he proves he is that fellow, that means he is dead since that fellow has long been dead.]

500 you just haven't figured it out yet have you? You're a none issue except to a very few on this board, and the PMs I've gotten about you and that keep piling up.
I made a sincere offer with a much sought after rifle, got my extended hand slapped for making it for my troubles.
As far as your offer of paying for a hunt what are you talking about? And what makes you think I need anyone to pay for my hunting?
Did you send in your $25 yet???????????????

quote:

Originally posted by cats:
500 you just haven't figured it out yet have you? You're a none issue except to a very few on this board, and the PMs I've gotten about you and that keep piling up.
I made a sincere offer with a much sought after rifle, got my extended hand slapped for making it for my troubles.
As far as your offer of paying for a hunt what are you talking about? And what makes you think I need anyone to pay for my hunting?
Did you send in your $25 yet???????????????

Another fraud busted!!!

George

sorry you feel that way, and here I was thinking California and Utah had a corner on odd balls. Forgot that NY has Hillary an is the San Fran of the east.