Hello Guys and Girls


I have been sent a email with regards too a ZIM outfitter that was awarded/given or? the rights too cull elephant in Hwange for 2009

Can any of our ZIM contributors say Yay or Nay too this ?

Walter,

This one comes up from time to time and if you do a search on the subject or on Ganyana's or Don Heath's name, you'll find them.

The short answer is that it's basically illegal.

I'm sure that Ganyana will give you a more comprehensive answer though.

An interesting one. By the parks ad wilf lif act it is illegal - But Parks had a crew in the USA at the shows selling said cull hunts.

I would not buy into one - The US government denied visa's to a bunch of PH's who had taken part in/organised such cull hunts in 2008. I am reliably informed they will be expanding that list of Zim and SA PH's who will be denied visa's as a result of such activities.

For a client? If you are going to do this, book directly with national parks. Do not go through an intermediary- was it even quasi-legal or simply a result of coruption?

Ron Oliver who posts on this forum is the official agent for Parks and eleckson Ndlouvu is their senior PH (and he is pretty competant- Have hunted with him several times and would be happy to send my mother-in-law hunting with him )

ganyana ron oliver books for parks . we.ve just watched a buffalo and elephant bow hunt in matetsi 5 when i did my licence it was illegal to bow hunt in a safari area .has this changed is it now legal ?

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
An interesting one. By the parks ad wilf lif act it is illegal - But Parks had a crew in the USA at the shows selling said cull hunts.

I would not buy into one - The US government denied visa's to a bunch of PH's who had taken part in/organised such cull hunts in 2008. I am reliably informed they will be expanding that list of Zim and SA PH's who will be denied visa's as a result of such activities.

For a client? If you are going to do this, book directly with national parks. Do not go through an intermediary- was it even quasi-legal or simply a result of coruption?

Ron Oliver who posts on this forum is the official agent for Parks and eleckson Ndlouvu is their senior PH (and he is pretty competant- Have hunted with him several times and would be happy to send my mother-in-law hunting with him )

i would be very happy to send my mother-in-law to a croc farm to hand feed them dinner! that seems like a bit of a lefthanded compliment. would you send your wife/kids to hunt with him?

quote:

have been sent a email with regards too a ZIM outfitter that was awarded/given or? the rights too cull elephant in Hwange for 2009

Can any of our ZIM contributors say Yay or Nay too this ?

basically illegal , who was the outfitter ?

We have 3 different hunting areas in Zimbabwe. Namely Hwange National Park ( which will give us permission to hunt within the park by April this year, as of right now no hunting is permitted there ), then the Chizarira Safari Area as well as Bing on lake Kariba.

Lew Harris Safaris



I have clients that are severely interested in this, just do not want any @#$$ coming their or my way when all has been said and done,

I remember the stories of last year, and do no want too become part of the banned wagon

so is it lew harris safaris thats making that offer ?

Appears so, who is Lew Harris safaris? Never heard of them personally.

How are you Ivan?

Dave

http://www.lhsafaris.com/huntingZimspecials.htm

http://elephantpopulationcontr...l/paginas/txt07.html

Clients fly into Victoria Falls where we meet them and drive to the hunting camp in the Gwayi Conservancey. If Non export elephant hunting, we will try organise with the officials if we can shoot the elephant in Hwange National Park, if they allow us to hunt in Hwange then there is a 50% chance that you can shoot an elephant bull of up to 70lb

Had a look at their price list:

LION MALES
- 3 years old $ 20000
- 3 years old (fully mature) $ 24000
- monsters $ 35000

That says it all.

It does seem that when questionable hunts surface in Zim its usually a South African company?

This is reprehensible. A pox on anyone contributing to this sort of nonsense.

I do ot think they are South African, I was under the impression they are Zimbabwean,

Might have had the wrong idea, I will check here with us, But I have not heard of them in South Africa, " although they might not have heard of me either "

Ivan, David , the idea that I got was that this has been approved and are just waiting for the paperwork too pass, I know there was the same thing last year as well, what happened to that in the end?

Lew is South African. I hunted with him about 15 years ago on a rhino/plains game hunt. He lived in Harrissmith at the time. I hear he moved. I haven't seen or heard from him in years.

I also did a cull hunt last year. It was through a major company, not some small fly by night. The paper work appeared authentic to me. A PH from national parks took me. I had confidence that all was in order.

ASG recently ran a letter from Dr M.Z. Mtsambiwa, Director General of Zim Parks, that categorically states that management offtake takes place in any protected area where elephants occur, including national parks and involves both trophy and non-trophy animals; but the trophies are not for export. It does go on to say that certain initiatives have been abused in the past year and have been stopped for the time being. the letter goes into a lot more detail but depending on what the reader wants to "hear", there could or could not be a chance of getting a permit for a management hunt in the national parks. Seems there are a lot of potential loop holes & grey areas and personally until this whole thing has been sorted out properly i would heed the advice of Ivan, Ganyana and co. Where there is smoke there is always fire and when the longstanding and upstanding say steer clear they have a good reason to do so!

quote:

Originally posted by Scott450:
ASG recently ran a letter from Dr M.Z. Mtsambiwa, Director General of Zim Parks, that categorically states that...

In this post from late last year is a copy of that letter.

http://forums.accuratereloadin.../1411043/m/931108859

While culls in Hwange may be necessary to reduce numbers, represent a good opportunity for visiting hunters, and raise needed funds for Parks - they need to be handled by Zim operators and only those with stellar reputations. Shooting "70lb bulls" or anything close to it under the guise of a "cull" is totally unacceptable.

Sally Brown of SOAZ and Dr. Mtsambiwa has been sent a copy of this.

Lew Harris, who was a friend of mine, passed away some time ago, as a result of an auto accident in RSA, if I recall correctly. His company was located in Harrismith, RSA and his sons may have kept Lew Harris Safaris alive as a company. Last time I saw the boys was at their home in 1998. Lew was a reputable HO.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
Shooting "70lb bulls" or anything close to it under the guise of a "cull" is totally unacceptable.

My point exactly.

If I recall correctly, Ganyana indicated that an amendment to the Zim Parks Act is required if hunts like this are to be considered completely legit.

Of course, I may be remembering incorrectly.

The70 pound thing should be a big warning.

Lew Harris Safaris used to be a regular exhibitor at SCI and usually "donated" a plains game hunt at the auction. haven't seen a booth for them in a number of years. it is DEFINITELY an RSA company.

To be a Ph in Zim doesn't one have to be a resident of Zim also???

Mike

yes, but the South African companies just find a willing Zim PH "partner" and carry on with business as usual. the folks in Zim are quick to condemn the RSA companies that outfit hunts there, but the bottom line is that almost invariably, a Zim company or PH is actively involved in the deal. perhaps some effort is in order on the part of the folks in Zim to put a stop to this. at the same time, it is VERY hard to fault a person for trying to keep his head above water in what is undoubtedly the worst economic mess in recent history. the proverbial catch 22 situation. if i was a PH in Zim trying to provide for my family, i would make whatever deal with the devil it took to put food on the table!

jdollar,

I hear you re Zim guys being involved, but let's not generalize on that one because many are not involved.
There are Zim guys who are trying to do something, if only by collecting info at this stage, which is all anyone can do right now.
Keeping one's head above water is no excuse. Some of the names I've heard crop up had plenty of money even before they decided to betray their country. Many of those hardest hit by economic woes have not resorted to underhand tactics to keep afloat. We should not make excuses for criminals. I have broken the law before and there was no question of me being let off the hook....

Dave

i dare say the VAST majority are not involved and are to be commended for their efforts to put a stop to this abuse. the small 1 or 2 person freelance operation are the poor bastards i was thinking about when i referenced the comment about feeding a family. i really wish you could publish a list of well- heeled companies taking advantage of this mess. we as hunters/clients could certainly put the screws to such unscrupulous behavior.