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as a ph we HATE muzzle breaks - no matter how hard you try at some stsage on the safari they will get your ears !!! That said i would rather have a guy who is accurate as a result of lessened recoil !! in my .577 they put some mercury tubes - but this seems to not be very common and hardly anyone i guide has these but i am seeing more and more muzzle breaks !!! last trip to argentina i put mercury tubes in my 20ga shotguns , recoil was reduced but that extra weight lifted 3-5000 times a day about killed me !!!! just as a point of interest what do you use for recoil suppression if any and why did you choose that ? "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | ||
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I'm putting together a 404 jeffery and plan on putting mercury tubes in the stock. Porting the barrel has never crossed my mind after shooting next to a guy at the range who was shooting a ported 30-378! I couldn't wait to finish my shooting! Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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Ivan - I'm no gun/recoil expert either, but as a guide for the past 19 yrs, I HATE muzzle-brakes with a passion. I hate to sound bad, but please, if you cannot handle the recoil, shoot a smaller gun. PLEASE consider your guide/PH, please!!!! | |||
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Generally I do not use anything, but if I decide that something is called for I will add a mercury recoil reducer. Not sure the mercury part does much but I use them to add some weight to the rifle. I abhor muzzlebreaks. I think they are ugly in addition to the harm they do to your ears. I will move at the range if I find someone with a muzzlebreak settling in near me. Some of the breaks are just hideous, particularly the ones that bell out at the end of the barrel instead of being profiled to the same diameter as the barrel. Mike | |||
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I answered purely with regards to hunting guns. On those, I don't use them. I had 2 mercury reducers on the .416, but they were just plain heavy, and a muzzle break when I know I am going to be shooting without hearing protection (a hunting situation) I don't want one. For competition and target shooting I have used pretty much anything and everything. The breaks work much better than the mercury or weight systems, but at a tremendous noise and blast signature, and are just a minimal weight gain, unless you are using something like mag na porting, in which case its really nothing. To be honest, I have found that the few number of shots I usually take at game make no real difference, and I have yet to noticed getting hit by the gun when shooting at game, although the bench is a different story. | |||
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Ivan, Interesting and timely topic. I just installed a brake on my .416. I can take the recoil, but I can't take the scope hitting me in the forehead every other shot. I thought about the mercury system, but my gunsmith said they are not nearly as effective as a brake. I have several Vias brakes and they seem to be much less noisy. I shot a deer with one in November and didn't even notice it. As for the looks, I don't mind them unless the rifle has open sights. Then they look pretty ugly. If I had an open sighted gun I would not put a brake on it, but I just got tired of getting whacked in the head. | |||
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To date I have cut and recrowned 4 rifles I bought which had brakes on them. For me it is the concussion or muzzle blast which I find uncomfortable. The noise is never as much a problem behind the rifle but off the side I can certainly not imagine that happening more than a few times before being fully deaf. I bought my 11.2 with 24 ounces of lead added to the butt. I added two Mercury reducers to my .510 Wells and two to the .450 Ackley I built on a Whitworth. Sold that one. I have another without any extra weight. I have decided now that If I cannot handle it with a good pad or by adding a Past pad for the range, I don't need it. I pushed my .458 AR to the max with 500 grain bullets yesterday and quit when I felt the bruise growing on my shoulder. Strangely, after the 6th round I didn't feel or fear the recoil anymore. I should note that I had warmed up a bit with a .375 and my Rigby first. Frank | |||
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I have installed 100 or so muzzle brakes, they work. Most of the time they increase accuracy, but never hurt it. I also provide a muzzle cap with every brake. I hate them for hunting where you can't wear hearing protection. I instruct all my customers to respect the people they are hunting with and remove the brake when hunting. They make practice on the bench/range meaningful rather than punishment. Another thing that will reduce recoil is a cape buffalo or other serious animal. My 470 NE doesn't kick when shooting at one, at least, I don't remember it, wasn't very loud, either......Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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I tried adding mercury recoil reducers to my 450 Ackley, but do not think they are any more effective than simply adding the equivalent weight in lead. I use muzzle breaks on a few of my rifles and find they are the most effective way of reducing recoil by far. | |||
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I never use a brake but I don't have any dedicated "target" guns. If I'm shooting one of my heavy rifles at the range, I'll use the PAST shoulder pad. While hunting, you never feel the recoil while shooting at game anyway so why use them? | |||
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Second that protocol with my rifles. Looking at paper is one thing, shooting at hair is different, rarely notice or feel the gun firing when shooting at game. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I have 3 rifles with muzzle breaks, all put on by previous owners. one .300 win Mag and 2 .375H&H Mags. The cost of a thread protector is about 50-75 bucks, add a front sight is about 200-250. I bought a Rem 498. put a Dead Mule recoil reducer and a limbsaver recoil pad have been very happy with results. Fired at a Gemsbock from NA with a 7mm Mag from a elevated stand with a tin roof. At the sound of the shot the wife dropped the camera, the ph and I thought we had, had a detonation. Never again. Yackman | |||
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Fantastic statement, factual and to the point Muzzle brake works but nobody like the side effect. i.e. Excessive noise Has it occur to somebody that big game hunting is a macho sport / thing and most folks here are men so if you ask the same question If Viagra works do you use it ? Hell no.... They should take muzzle brake off tank, artillery and BMG's of military hardware as well If you can't handle it then you shouldn't be in the army. Happy new year folks | |||
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Muzzle brakes are for sissy gurly men. ~Ann   | |||
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I would never impose a brake on my PH, ever. I have a mercury tube in my Lott, nothing in smaller calbiers. | |||
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When shooting at game.....1 or 2 shots are insignificant to the shooter (me), regardless of caliber.....but sighting-in can be brutal. Today....for the 1st. time.... I used a "lead sled" with 7 successive rifles. I emerged completely comfortable. In the past, I would be colorfully bruised and hurting for days, especially after a long session at the range. One caveat to the use of the "lead sled" is the small amount of body contortion seemingly needed to use it. The shooting position is somewhat awkward....though stability and rifle position adjustment are excellent. I will use the sled again .... and anticipate that I will become more comfortable with it. But, I certainly am enjoying the freedom from bruising. | |||
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  "If you can't go all out, don't go..." | |||
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External sorbothane pad -- works for me on the big bores. I value what remains of my hearing too much to ever use a muzzle brake. Norman Solberg International lawyer back in the US after 25 years and, having met a few of the bad guys and governments here and around the world, now focusing on private trusts that protect wealth from them. NRA Life Member for 50 years, NRA Endowment Member from 2014, NRA Patron from 2016. | |||
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Hate to agree, but that's true Ann! If a muzzle-brake is needed, what's really needed is a smaller gun, JMO. | |||
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The fellow that has built 3 rifles for me now has said that dual mercury suppressors will be approximately equal in recoil reduction to a good muzzle break. However, he also said that you cannot use a muzzle break in conjunction with a mercury suppressor. Not sure on the mechanics of that. Interested in what other gun-builders think of that statement. Also, the mass of the extra mercury suppressor was putting my 416 off balance, so it was built with one suppressor instead of two. | |||
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My double rifle has a Mercury reducer, it helped a bit it was the weight mostly though, I think. I have several varmint rifles with brakes on 'em and it makes it much easier to "see" your shot. None of my walking around rifles have breaks. . | |||
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I have a 460 Weatherby with a muzzle brake, I used it in RSA and Moz and the PH loved it after HE fired it. It is a big ugly brake (not the factory one) but those are the ones that work best. It kicks about like a 375. I used it for the Safari Rifle Shoot here in Phoenix twice; it is a 20+ course of fire and had no problem other than terrifying the other shooters. I have a 375 H&H that has both the brake and a mercury tube. I did it for the above shoot; it kicks like a 270 or so. I let a friend of mine who is an AR-15 shooter only use it for the last Safari rifle shoot and he got 5 place out of 13, no issue with recoil or flinching. I am having a 550 Express made and it will also have both, one bonus was the weight of the mercury tube greatly improved the balance. I ordered my mercury recoil suppressors from http://www.mercuryrecoil.com/ , The guy sounded older than dirt, I needed two but ordered four, I can see a good chance of no one taking over the shop and the location becoming an EPA Super Fund site due to soil contamination. I used the Walker Game Ear when hunting and just regular muffs at the range. I cannot hear fer sh## and I can turn up the Walkers until I can hear like a Coyote. Mark | |||
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The best recoil management is practice with your chosen rifle. Another reason why I think most hunters are better served by the 375 in all its variants rather than a bigger caliber. | |||
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I agree with Ann and Saeed. I use both when practicing. The brakes seems to clear the range the quickest of other shooters and it does reduce recoil. I do not use them when hunting. | |||
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Dear Ivan I have all recoil systems on trial at present. pad break mercury tube magna port lighter loads For the wife and kids mostly. I think the best out of the lot is magna port. Yes noise dose increase but it is sent upwards only. So has less to bounce of. When firing less than 3 rounds dose not give the ring of the muzzle break. I spent money having the breaks fitted they work well on the range but are starting to dislike them in the field. Have not used my type in the field but on a few guides rifles I have. I carry ear plugs or sonci ear muffs depending on the hunt. Both times for what ever reason no time to fit or just 1 plug in. Got a massive ring in my ear. Also off the breaks you get the shock wave, I think this will scare the wife and kids just as much as the recoil it self. So my questions is: How do you get some one to use a rifle they are scared of with out reducing the recoil? Considering we are talking children and non shooting wife. Regards Mark | |||
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Have you tried a rifle scope with extended eye relief, or maybe obtain the advice of a smith on the setting of your scope mounts, even extending your butt-stock. | |||
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That is one sweet shooting .416  Never smacked me, though in your case might just be an idea to adjust the eye relief. | |||
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I cant stand the noise. I already have some hearing loss certianly dont need anymore. You have to dunk me in a water tank to get me to wiegh 150 pounds. If i can learn to shoot a .375 H&H, i dont see why most cannot. I have walked in the foot prints of the elephant, listened to lion roar and met the buffalo on his turf. I shall never be the same. | |||
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Muzzle brakes work. Yes. But they harm, not just inconvenience, bystanders. In a hunting situation, the PH or scout or whoever often has no ways to put earplugs before the shot, and at times can't even put his fingers in his ears due to awkward position, or need to cover the client and be ready to put a follow-up shot. The result is that most PHs have hearing problems before age, and muzzle brakes just itensify the problem. As much as I see no problem with someone using whatever pleases him at the range or while on his own, bringing a muzzle-braked gun on a safari is discourteous to say the least. As for mercury tubes and similar devices, they affect the gun's balance and weight. A proper stock design and fit, a good recoil pad, and learning how to handle recoil go a long way towards solving recoil issues. And agreeing to not take more rifle than one can handle helps too... | |||
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I'm a great fan of recoil reducers whether they be mercury tube, tungsten bead etc and I hate muzzle breaks because they've cost me so much hearing damage over the years...... but can I point out that those who think a mercury tube (or tungsten bead etc) is only as effective as the same weight in lead are completely wrong. The tube works on the princlple or Newton's third law which proves that for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. This is effected by both the weight of the mercury (or tungsten bead etc) AND the movement (wave of energy) of it as the firearm recoils. A simple way to see this law in motion is to put a weight on a flat surface and move it with a measured force and then put a plastic bottle with the same weight of liquid on the same surface and then move it with the same force. The wave you see in the bottle is the difference in effectiveness between a sold weight and a liquid. It should be noted that for a tube to work to maximum effeciency it needs to be mounted at at angle inside the stock so the contents run uphill when the firearm is in recoil. All very simple but very effective physics really...... | |||
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The deafness is bad but (IMO) the tinnitus is 100 times more of a problem!  | |||
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i hadnt thought of that but it makes sense - i thought that the tubes had baffles in them ? "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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i agree totally with you saeed , that said heavy recoiling rifles are not for the bench , bench shooting IMHO is for zeroing the rifle , thereafter good practice for african hunting is with a set of sticks and due to the fact you ae shooting from standing , the recoil appears a lot less. as many many people have pointed out brakes will hurt your ears but they do work a removeable brake is a great way to go - also as many people point out when shooting at an animal nobody feels near the same recoil as when shooting from a bench where the anticipation can create a huge flinch and painful recoil !! "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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mark , i would say your best option is downloaded ammo - dowload it very much and then as their confidence increases slowly increase the loads - you have a great point for many kids its the sound more than the recoil - also when teaching people i use a very healthy dose of the good old .22 in between the heavier rifles and then onto .223 that has significant noise but no recoil - mercury tubes will also help "The greatest threat to our wildlife is the thought that someone else will save it” www.facebook.com/ivancartersafrica www.ivancarterwca.org www.ivancarter.com ivan@ivancarter.com | |||
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No baffles. Usually it's just a tube that's part filled with mercury and the mercury (or tungsten beads) temporarily absorb the energy by movement. If it runs uphill then it's even more effective because it takes more energy to run uphill than it does to run on the flat. I do however wonder if a slightly conical container might also be of benefit but my knowledge of the laws of physics don't extend far enough to know if that would be of additional benefit or not..... (FWIW) Hawking tells us that energy is never lost or ever disappears, it just changes form. | |||
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I tried to quote "Shakari" and type like Stephen Hawking speaks but couldn't figure that one out. Instead, I will just answer the question. I had one of the many "NONE" votes. But currently I am not shooting anything larger than .375 H&H either. ___________________________________________________________________________________ Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store. | |||
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So as I get older and my energy level seems to wane, what form is it changing to . . . but I digress.  Mike | |||
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I have exactly 3 ported guns and they all came to me that way. 1 is a Sauer 200 in 308. Not sure why he ported it but he also cut that fine rifle to a 12" LOP as well. That rifle barrel will likely never make it to the hunting field anyway. But hey I got teh entire rifle for $400.  I just need to add spacers and put the 6.5 Swede barrel on it.The other two are TC Contenders in 45/70 and 375 JDJ and are Magna Ported. They came to me that way as well. With the short barrels I dont really notice the blast or npise is much different. When I built my 416 taylor I had mercury tubes installed in the buttstock and some lead shot in the forend to balance it back out. Seems to work fine. Personally I prefer to shoot my rifle off the bench only to zero and then shoot from sticks or a field position and that seems to make a workd of diffrence in felt recoil. DRSS Kreighoff 470 NE Valmet 412 30/06 & 9.3x74R | |||
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I'll admit I also have trouble understanding Hawking and to quote Ian Dury: "There ain't half been some clever bastards" Shame I'm not one one of them!  | |||
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