I've used various ways to tame recoil:

1. Various types of muzzle brakes. They all work.

2. A Blaser Kick Stop which I presume is a mercury recoil supressor. It's a real soft shooting 375 H&H Magnum as a result.

3. Different handgun grips or recoil pads on rifles can make a big difference. I have a CZ 550 Safari Magnum in 458 Lott with such a cushy recoil pad that even prolonged shooting from the bench is pretty comfortable.

4. Last but not least is practice with your weapon of choice. A martial arts class where firm contact in sparring is permitted is also helpful.

Way back when I first started shooting centerfires I though things like a 7X57 Mauser and a 44 Magnum were pretty challenging. I've gotten to the place where I'm just fine with an unbraked 444 Marlin handgun and an unbraked 378 Weatherby Magnum.

I've got muzzle brakes on 2 of my rifles, but they also happen to be 2 of my smaller calibers, and on the 2 that weigh the most. Both are in 6.5x47 Lapua. One is my 600/1000 yard benchrest rifle. The brake allows me to shoot that one free recoil, and when it's used everyone is by defualt in hearing protection. The other is on a precision rifle that may see 75-100 rounds on any givein day which isn't really the issue, but it sure makes it nice when having to spot my own shots.

None of the larger rifles I've had ever got a muzzle brake or mercury tubes installed. They weren't intended for long strings of fire. Also the issue of felt recoil can be delt with pretty effectively by just having a stock that fits correctly. Heck my .375 H&H had a steel butplate, and wasn't uncomfortable to shoot for stings of 20-40 rounds. I'm finishing up a .300 Win mag that is actually getting the stock from that .375, and the .404 That I've been working on for a while would only be getting a standard pad because I don't want to deal with inletting another steel plate.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
2. A Blaser Kick Stop which I presume is a mercury recoil supressor. It's a real soft shooting 375 H&H Magnum as a result.

I think you'll find that the Blaser version is tungsten bead not mercury but very effective either way.....

In my somewhat educated opinion, if my daughter, at 125 lbs. can shoot a .375 H&H quite accurately (both from the bench and in the field), then any man can shoot a .416 of various sorts or .458 WM without a muzzle brake from a well-fitted rifle of reasonable weight.

With good stocks and shooting technique, I'd venture to say that for about anybody, male or female, an 8.5 lb rifle is adequate for .375 class guns, 9 lbs for a .404 or .450/.400 , 9.5 to 10 lbs for the .416's or a .458 and.... A good double may weigh up to 11 lbs in .470 but they don't feel that heavy 'cause they're cool!... Any more weight and rifles are a pain to tote... in my simple mind, anyway.

I had a .416 Rem that had a muzzle brake installed. Took it on one hunt and couldn't wait to get rid of it. The only rifle that I have now that has a brake on it is my Barrett 82A1. And it is gonna stay on it.

quote:

In my somewhat educated opinion, if my daughter, at 125 lbs. can shoot a .375 H&H quite accurately (both from the bench and in the field), then any man can shoot a .416 of various sorts or .458 WM without a muzzle brake from a well-fitted rifle of reasonable weight.

well fitting rifle of reasonable weight -

i have no use for either. a proper fitting stock will solve 90% of the problem. All the extra stock wieghts will do is allow you to carry around an extra pound or 2 all day.

The other issue that concerns me is detached retinas. Quite a few shooters have suffered this from prolonged recoil; it is not terribly uncommon among competitive shotgun shooters. Bob Brister suffered one, and so did John Wootters; he lost most of the vision in his right eye. People over 50 are much more at risk.

I shoot several times per week and I am just not going to get hammered if I can help it.

So you know what? I will stick with my muzzle brakes. Call me a sissy if you want. I will call me the better shot.

Some people tolerate recoil less well than others. It dosen't make them less manly, it's just a fact of life. I've let people shoot my guns after coaching them in the proper technique. I usually get two reactions. One: "sh**, never again". Two: "gee, that aint so bad".

Mecury tubes or added weight are fine as long as they don't unbalance the gun.

Lead sleds are fine if you want to sight in. See if your bullets are in the same place shooting without the sled.

In my opinion, muzzle brakes have no place on hunting rifles. Again, see if your bullets are in the same place without the brake.

Dave

I have been thinking of getting one of these put on whatever bigbore i end up getting. My wife will more than likely be shooting the gun at some point.
http://bumpbuster.blogspot.com/

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Muzzle brakes are for sissy gurly men.

Absolutely Ann (just kidding, no one likes recoil)! Though I have two gurly mercuy recoil reducers in my 500 Jeffery but no brake. It started out with one, but I had another one added to get the balance right. It feel light and lively in my hands, but weighs 11.25 lbs unloaded ...



I do use a lead sled from the bench having learned my lesson the painful way ...

The Browning BOSS system works. It will dial a group to one hole. I've done it with factory winchester supreme and the cheaper super x ammo. POI will change as you adjust the break. Get the best group size you can and then re-zero. Then replace the muzzle break with the CR conventional recoil (no holes) break at the same spot.
Bought a new M70 crf /boss. $419 NIB couldn't pass it up. Found out the ugly thing really works.
Savage made one that a 1/4 turn of the break would close the holes. I've never tried one. (it's a savage
I've never seen either on anything over .375. Probably because they're ugly, but they do work.
Scott

Hello all. I have a few big bores, 505 Gibbs, 458 Lott, 375 H&H mag. I use a mercury tube and F990 triple mag recoil pad. Makes alot of difference and also technique and practice..just my opinion. Thanks

chuck it is hard to tell with that rifle in teh way but is that a 65 GTO I spy in the background?

Chuck,
I don't think my shoulder has ever really gotten to that point, but there again, the hardest kicking rifle I own is a .458 Lott. Man, thaat don't even look fun.

I am not sure why the "Countercoil" system is not discussed here. I have used it effectively on a number of .416's. Adds no weight and fits nicely. Does detract form the visual aspect of the gun but I cover it with a nice leather butt sock.
Camshaft

The brake on my .416 just screws off and is replaced with a cap. I don't use the brake while hunting however, it is sure nice for practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:
chuck it is hard to tell with that rifle in teh way but is that a 65 GTO I spy in the background?

Nope just a 1973 Mustang convertible with the original 351 Cleveland under the hood (upgraded with a Crane Cam, roller rockers, high compression pistons, port and polish and an Edelbrock manifold and four barrel)

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Muzzle brakes are for sissy gurly men.

Absolutely Ann (just kidding, no one likes recoil)! Though I have two gurly mercuy recoil reducers in my 500 Jeffery but no brake. It started out with one, but I had another one added to get the balance right. It feel light and lively in my hands, but weighs 11.25 lbs unloaded ...



I do use a lead sled from the bench having learned my lesson the painful way ...

Yikes Chuck!

Is it worth having a 500? Ewwww!

The 500 is definitely worth it, Ann. I use a lead sled for the bench (now that i've learned my lesson, 15 full power loads from the bench without a shoulder pad or sled is a stern teacher). Offhand it's a blast to shoot and I haven't had a bruise since.

Let me suggest something completely different. The real problem is practice and in particular not developing a flinch from practice. The hard shoulder pads from EVO shield work very well for this. I bought one on a last minute recommendation when I went to Argentina for doves a few years ago. Worked great there and turns out it works very well for heavy rifles. My sujective view is that the shield shirt and no muzzzle break feels lighter than the using the muzzle break in a .300 Jarrett (I have bigger rifles, just not with breaks). I think they are still available at cabelas

2 solutions to reduce recoil:
1. .22 cal
2. .17 cal

Shoot what you can shoot well...comfortably.

Chuck

Nice stang.

If you were shooting the 500 off that Ransom rest on a sit down bench its no wonder you got beat up so bad. My range does not allow offhand during public shooting hours. I sit straight up, addressing the target as though I was standing. I build up the forend rest, about 14 inches I guess. Holding the rifle as though I were shooting offhand, I rest my left hand on the rest. I pull the rifle tight into my shoulder pocket, hold the forend firmly and weld my cheek to the stock. Upon firing, the rifle and I move as a solid unit as I pivot from my butt. Since I am allowed 1 round ,I run the bolt as fast as possible, reaquire the target and dry fire. I can assure you, this works. I sighted in my iron sighted 10 pound 14 ounce 450 rigby in a tee shirt. 12 shots,no ill affects. I'm not a big guy, 5 feet 7, 160 pounds.

Dave

Thanks nopride, it was an early learning experience. I have between 300 and 400 rounds through my 500 Jeffery now, almost all full power and less than 100 from the bench. I'm fortunate to belong to a range that has rifle ranges from 50 yards to 300 yards (soon 600 yards), allows offhand shooting and also has an informal range (blow up water jugs etc). It's also rarely busy. One of the really good things about the 500 Jeffery is it's a dream to shoot offhand and it makes my 375 Weatherby feel like a 30-06!

I have had the pleasure of shooting some of the hardest kicking guns out there from a 4 bore on down but my worst experience was an early high comb Southgate .460 weatherby. The customer complained that the gun would not group but we suspected that it was recoil. I shot the gun and it gave me a bloody nose then I later found blood in my ears as well however the gun produced a 1.25-.5 inch group off of sand bags, no machine rest. After seeing the results the customer admitted he was flinching and wanted to know what could be done about the recoil. At this time Winchester was installing a system called Hydrocoil on many trap guns so we canibalized a factory Super-X1 and fitted the system to the Weatherby. The results were fantastic with felt recoil being about that of a .375 H & H. There are currently after market systems available from Gracoil and ISIS that are very similar. I know the stocks are cut and no one would alter a good engish double but I would think these systems would be great for a hard kicking bolt gun. Maybe I am missing something here but this would seem to be a much better alternative than an ear busting brake.SEAN

I like the mercury but I like my guns a little heavy since they seem to handle better for me a little heavy. I am about to try a baffled compensator to reduce muzzle jump and it has been tested to not increase noise but it is not really a break. The best option would be sound suppressor since they act as a brake in addition to reducing noise but alas the polititians would rather we go deaf than let us hunt with them in the USA.

Friend of mine has a mod on his 375H&H

I have only two firearms out of close to 100 rifles and shotguns with muzzle brakes! One is on the barrel of a Mauser actioned rifle that I bought for the action and stock to build a big bore rifle on! That rifle, believe it or not, is a 30-06! Why anyone would think a 30-06 needed a muzzle brake is beyond me, but it is there! The other is a TC Contender chambered for 375JDJ, and was re-chambered from a super 14 barrel that was originally chambered for 41 Rem Mag. The muzzle brake was installed for two reasons #1 the barrel was too short to be used legally with a rifle stock, so the smith permanently mounted the brake so as to make this firearm legal as a rifle under US law.and the other reason was severe muzzle rise, that is modified by the brake. This brake doesn't re-dirrect the muzzle gases back to the sided but UP retard in the muzzle rise.

The heaviest kicker I shoot today is a 470NE double rifle, and the only recoil reduction units I use on any of the guns other than the TC is good recoil pads! IMO, if a brake is needed to reduce recoil so you can shoot a rifle then you have too much rifle!
...............................................................................

The only recoil reducing devices I've ever used have been lead, and in one instance, a mercury tube. Frankly, I think they are about equally effective. The mercury tube is in a .416 and I'd have it removed if it wouldn't change the balance of the rifle. I have never, and will never, use a muzzle brake.

Shoot something bigger, or shoot quite a bit off the bench, and then whatever you hunt with and shoot off hand or off of sticks will seem like a pussycat and you won't need recoil reduction.

quote:

They should take muzzle brake off tank, artillery and BMG's of military hardware as well

If you can't handle it then you shouldn't be in the army.

quote:

I use both when practicing. The brakes seems to clear the range the quickest of other shooters and it does reduce recoil.

Amen to the above...

Although going sans brake on next big bore...

Got caught up in the ultra light fad and now am just going to build heavier rifles...

I'd have to say that the gurly men are the ones that bitch and whine about a rifle weighing over 8 pounds...

This is a great discussion. The recoil from my light weight 338 WM causes me more problems than a 375. It does not cause me shoulder pain - it gives me headaches if I shoot more than 10 or so rounds. I believe in lots of practice before a hunt, so I had to solve the problem. I tried a muzzle brake and although it worked to surpress recoil, the noise was horrible for both me and anyone near me. What works great for me is the "Danuser Countercoil" (an internal stock mounted gas filled shock absorber). It may not be visually appealing to everyone, but it works very well and I have no problem with how it looks. It's been working well on my 338 for 10 years or so. I also use a Past pad while at the range.

I have mercury and tungsten bead tubes and muzzle brakes installed in and on several of my big bore rifles.

They work wonders, although the tubes only work marginally better than an equal amount of dead weight. The difference in subjective recoil is very small, but it's perceptible. That's primarily because the recoil velocity of the rifle is very slightly reduced by the collision of the moving rifle with the resting mercury or tungsten beads.

The brakes flat out work. A good one will tame any hard-kicking rifle down to a comfortably shootable condition, and that's a great help when working up loads during long sessions at the bench.

But the brakes I use make my rifles much louder than they are when fired without the brakes.

So, I never hunt with a braked rifle. I'm not willing to suffer the additional inner ear trauma and hearing loss, and I wouldn't want to cause that in my hunting companions, either.

My rifles with brakes have threaded caps that replace the brakes for hunting purposes, and that's how I hunt with them.

quote:

last trip to argentina i put mercury tubes in my 20ga shotguns , recoil was reduced but that extra weight lifted 3-5000 times a day about killed me !!!!

I'm a recoil wuss. I bought the Beretta Xtrema 2 for this very reason - its Kick-Off system is awesome for taming recoil.

As for hunting rifles, I haven't shot anything larger than my .300 WSM. I have a muzzle break on it and it's really nice to shoot, but its not one I'll shoot without hearing protection, even while hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Muzzle brakes are for sissy gurly men.

Absolutely Ann (just kidding, no one likes recoil)! Though I have two gurly mercuy recoil reducers in my 500 Jeffery but no brake. It started out with one, but I had another one added to get the balance right. It feel light and lively in my hands, but weighs 11.25 lbs unloaded ...



I do use a lead sled from the bench having learned my lesson the painful way ...

Chuck,

If your bicep gets bruised like that, you simply don't know how to hold the rifle.

My opinion is to take all brakes, mercury tubes, etc., and throw them in the river. Same for lead sleds, which disrupt your point of aim.

Hold the rifle tightly into the shoulder with both hands, use a shoulder pad and ear muffs when shooting off the bench, mount the scope as far forward as does not vignette, make sure the LOP is right so you don't "crawl" the stock, practice from real field positions after sight-in, and you'll never have a problem, at least with calibers up to .375 H&H or .458 Winchester. As for heavier kickers, like .460 Weatherbies, use them for tomato stakes or something. The ordinary .375 or .458 will penetrate an elephant or buffalo as much as you could want and anything more is just a flinching machine.

Chuck,

If your bicep gets bruised like that, you simply don't know how to hold the rifle.[/QUOTE]

Actually Indy, my bicep didn't change color for 3 days. The shoulder was bruised so badly as the blood drained from it the bruise just migrated down to my elbow and the whole right side of my chest. I can still hit a soda can offhand at 100 yards with either my 270 or 500 Jeffery on the first shot, so if I'm holding it wrong, it's working for me.

No,
I'm pretty sure that if you didn't know how to hold the rifle, that bruise would be much, much worse with the 500.

Several have pointed out that reasonable weight for caliber and GOOD FIT are the key. I'll accept that as the folks saying that have it all over me in experience with larger calibers, BUT, without simply getting lucky, how can one discover the dimensions that make for good fit. For many, including me, shooting a rifle with low recoil ( in my case, a 270 win) for many years, you adapt to whatever stock you have, really good fit isn't critical. Then when you transition to a more powerful rifle, in some cases (mine), 40 years of bad habits rear their head. I improved my fundamentals and that helped a lot, but , now the fit question really becomes important. What and how much to change, more importantly, how to find the answer without a heck of lot of trial and error? There are a lot of books on shotgun fit, one even has a tiny bit about rifles, but what else?

I find it interesting that no one has commented on my concern about retinal detachment.

Unless you increase weight or put a brake on, you are taking a pounding that creates a real health risk.

I have read your thread and am concerned, but my rifle does weigh 11.25 lbs so recoil is a little abated. I really don't want to go with a muzzle brake though but I would for the range and practice and put the thread protector on for hunting if it's that serious of a threat.