Your acknowledging the Pagans and the Druids is just too much. What has this site come to...

I am done here and not coming back...

Oh wait a minute...I thought I was Allen Day...

You already acknowledge them if you have a Christmas tree, mistletoe , etc ! Today is the real day - winter solstice ,I don't know why they picked Dec 25. Some Christians are not sure apparently since they have 12 days of Christmas ! Have a happy something or other even if you're grumpy .Put some apples out for the deer. Hug your wife and kids.

Mike,

That was wonderful. I think we somtimes take ourselves WAY to seriously.

Mark

Thanks Mike! I needed a good laugh!

I hereby decree every Winter Solstice to be "Allen Day Day"

Godspeed Allen

and we had our longest day and it was not raining for a change

Mike Merry Christmas from one Mike to another Mike...


Mike

The celebration of Christ's birth was usually lumped in with Epiphany (January 6), one of the church's earliest established feasts. Some church leaders even opposed the idea of a birth celebration. Origen (c.185-c.254) preached that it would be wrong to honor Christ in the same way Pharaoh and Herod were honored. Birthdays were for pagan gods.

The eventual choice of December 25, made perhaps as early as 273, reflects a convergence of Origen's concern about pagan gods and the church's identification of God's son with the celestial sun. December 25 already hosted two other related festivals: natalis solis invicti (the Roman "birth of the unconquered sun"), and the birthday of Mithras, the Iranian "Sun of Righteousness" whose worship was popular with Roman soldiers. The winter solstice, another celebration of the sun, fell just a few days earlier. Seeing that pagans were already exalting deities with some parallels to the true deity, church leaders decided to commandeer the date and introduce a new festival.

Western Christians first celebrated Christmas on December 25 in 336, after Emperor Constantine had declared Christianity the empire's favored religion. Eastern churches, however, held on to January 6 as the date for Christ's birth and his baptism. Most easterners eventually adopted December 25, celebrating Christ's birth on the earlier date and his baptism on the latter, but the Armenian church celebrates his birth on January 6. Incidentally, the Western church does celebrate Epiphany on January 6, but as the arrival date of the Magi rather than as the date of Christ's baptism.

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
You already acknowledge them if you have a Christmas tree, mistletoe , etc ! Today is the real day - winter solstice ,I don't know why they picked Dec 25. Some Christians are not sure apparently since they have 12 days of Christmas ! Have a happy something or other even if you're grumpy .Put some apples out for the deer. Hug your wife and kids.

Work your way through Daniel C. Dennett's book "Breaking the Spell". It has some interesting discussions as to the evolution of various aspects of religions and how they have over human history arisen, interacted, changed, and disappeared. Dennett is an internationally known philospher (Tufts University) and does a very interesting and comprehensive job of discussing the role of religion in human history.

I for one miss Allen Day's contributions to this forum.

He always impressed me as a no BS kind of guy. Very knowledgeable and experienced. His opinions and judgments always seemed to me to be well reasoned and well informed.

He also seemed to have a pretty decent sense of humor.

I never did understand why he quit posting over such a minor and ultimately silly thing. Hard to figure.

When did he quit and what happened? I must have been in Africa at the time.

Mr. Lex MA,


We seem to have a difference of opinion. Given, it's Christmas I won't express mine.

UEG,

About two years ago when the banner acknowledged the Winter Solistice and Pagans, Mr. Day found that so offensive to his sensibilities that left in what would be commonly described as a "huff".

Quite comical for a hunter given the basis of pagan religions is worshiping Gods of nature.

Allen's objection was specifically over Wicca if I recall correctly.

I guess Mr. Day was before my time on here, but one thing I have found out about forums, 8is this.

When people blow up all of a sudden and leave over a topic that is totally meaningless on some many levels, it is almost always because of other issues and the little topics seem to push them over the edge.

Who cares what a person believes or how they believe.

As long as a person is honest and treats others fairly and does not try to force their beliefs or ethics on to another person, hell, let them believe in the divine providence of Ralph the Mud Turtle.

For someone, anyone to get pissed off and leave a site in a huff over something as non-sencical as wishing Wiccans/Pagans/Druids or any other group of people that believe differently than they do, a happy or good holiday is just pure BS and something else is what caused the departure.

Anyway, just to stir the pot a little, Enjoy and a Merry or Happy Whatever this period of time means to you and yours.

Athiest Holiday

This is living proof that every moron in the world has a right to petition the court--and tie it up with foolishness.

Have you heard about this case? Great answer from the judge!

In Florida , an atheist became incensed over the preparation of Easter and Passover holidays. He decided to contact his lawyer about the discrimination inflicted on atheists by the constant celebrations afforded to Christians and Jews with all their holidays while atheists had no holiday to celebrate.

The case was brought before a judge. After listening to the long passionate presentation by the lawyer, the Judge banged his gavel and declared, 'Case dismissed!'

The lawyer immediately stood and objected to the ruling and said, 'Your honor, how can you possibly dismiss this case? The Christians have Christmas, Easter and many other observances. Jews have Passover, Yom Kippur and Hanukkah...yet my client and all other atheists have no such holiday!'

The judge leaned forward in his chair and simply said, 'Obviously your client is too confused to even know about, much less celebrate his own atheists' holiday!'

The lawyer pompously said, 'Your Honor, we are unaware of any such holiday for atheists. Just when might that holiday be, your Honor?'

The judge said, 'Well it comes every year on exactly the same date---April 1st! Since our calendar sets April 1st as 'April Fools Day,' consider that Psalm 14:1 states, 'The fool says in his heart, there is no God.' Thus, in my opinion, if your client says there is no God, then by scripture, he is a fool, and April 1st is his holiday! Now have a good day and get out of my courtroom!!

Way to go, Judge!

We have been celebrating one religious occasion or another for quite sometime now.

During Hanukah, Uncle Don - that is what my daughter calls him - came over to visit. My wife orgenized a special Hanukah meal for us all to enjoy, and what a great meal that was too

Since then we have been to several Christmas lunches or dinners, depending on the nationality of those giving it.

And then we had our own Eid Al Adha, then more Christmas parties and then New Year.

Then the Armenians have theirs in January.

I love it this time of year. Plenty of food, lots of laughter - believe it or not, but we actually enkoy taking the micky out of each other on all these crazy parties, and no one has ever taken an offense!

That is what I call tolerance, and respect, for each others beliefs.

Each has his own, and no one tries to ram HIS beliefs down the others throats.

Very nice post indeed Saeed and a very decent way of turning this nonsense post around.

Why I can't figure is why it got started in the first place over an individual that is long gone?

In the interest of full disclosure, Allen is a very good friend of mine with deep religious convictions and that is between him and his God.

Anyhow, thanks again Saeed and a very happy season to all. jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Very nice post indeed Saeed and a very decent way of turning this nonsense post around.

Hear! Hear!

I doubt that Allen left simply because of that silly thing.

More likely it was a the final straw. It's the Cats' and Shootaways, and Carmellos, all of the other notorious trolls that make this place a pain in the rear from time to time.

Saeed,

How wonderful it would be if we could all adapt to your policy of tolerance. Good on you sir.

Merry everything!

Mark

I was raised in a Roman Catholic household although my father was atheist. My sister married a Jew and raised her daughters in Judaism. One close uncle was raised in Japan in the Shinto faith. Most of my Midwestern friends are Protestants. I am going to Singapore in a couple of weeks to visit with Muslim friends. If I wasn't tolerant I'd be sunk because I'm surrounded. I now only believe in the Golden Rule.

........I apologize for my ignorance ,,,,,,and I wanted to ask before but didn,t ...What does the holiday of Eid Al Adha celebrate ,??????

The festival commemorates Allah's gift of a ram in place of Isma'il (Ishmael), Ibrahim's son, whom Allah had commanded Ibrahim (Abraham) to sacrifice. (The story also exists in the Old Testament and the Torah. In Christianity and Judaism the child in this story is Ishmael's brother Isaac.)

The Devil tried to persuade Ibrahim to disobey Allah and not to sacrifice his beloved son, but Ibrahim stayed obedient to God and drove the devil away. Eid al-Adha is a celebration of this supreme example of submission to Allah, which is the cornerstone of the Islamic faith (islam means "submission").

(Actually, this whole thread should disappear as it has nothing to do with hunting in Africa. Sorry, gents.)

.......Thank you WPN .,.,for me it has alot to do with Africa .,., Well the Islam part ,,, Thanks again ...

You're welcome, gumboot458.

Substitute God for Allah and you have the same story Christians know from the Bible.