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Damn, the outfitter is pathetic and the shooter is a total ass without an ethical bone in his body. Jim "Bwana Umfundi" NRA | |||
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I have always been firmly in the camp that says, "If it's legal, I'm not going to comment on another hunter's ethics. You hunt your way, I'll hunt my way." I am re-thinking that. | |||
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Sad. I cut it off. Will J. Parks, III | |||
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This is no than an execution of a Zoo animal! Far from Hunting!!!! | |||
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Well, apparently not everyone finds the video a bit hard to watch? Below is a private e-mail I just received from some dude named "Bobby", in N.Y. So, let me be very clear! My only concern is and always has been for Africa's wildlife, the lion in particular, and the way hunting, and lion hunting in particular, is perceived. I couldn't care less who's in the biz, and who's not. I'm doing just fine, and I am not trying to steal someone's business. Like ALL businesses, we are not perfect, not without fault - but I have not/will not sacrifice wildlife conservation/good moral judgment, just to make a dollar. The wildlife we all love, means more to me than that! Now, I also think I was clear in my OP, when I said that I have not made a 100% decision as to my feelings on "canned" lion hunting, and that I have never been dead-set against it. I am however, against this sort of video being put on the web for the world to see! And somehow ole "Bobby" here, thinks I am the one "feeding the antis, to burn the hunting communities" - see below? So, according to "Bobby" I sell crappy hunts, "I better watch my back, he's coming for me, and they will take me down"? To that I say, my address is listed below. You can make an appointment, or just show up, its up to you "Bobby"? Aaron Neilson 4901 S. Wadsworth Blvd. house #11 Littleton, Co, 80123 303-619-2872 Aaron, You must be the stupidest dumb ass idiot hunter I have ever seen. Are you totally brain dead? I tried commenting on your post on the Vinny bloke's Lion hunt but instead decide to mail you to save you the public embarrassment. Are you hunting for the Trumps business or what? Seems to me that you are in the business of bad mouthing other outfitters because you cannot making a decent living on your own. You are pathetic man. You don't deserve to be called a hunter. I know the Hunting Legends guys and have hunted with them last year. They are awesome guys and I had a wonderful time with them and I bet you they do more for their clients than you can ever dream of. Maybe I must get some of my buddy's to post the shit hunts they had with you. How's that? I was on these guy's game ranch and I met the owners and they are as professional as you can get and has immense respect for us clients and their animals. So don't you go talk a bunch of shit about people you don't know. Get a job man. Sitting behind a computer big man and think making false comments and attacking other like you do is big of you. It says something about who you really are and your character. You are an asshole of note man. You are a disgrace to the hunting community. You are as pathetic as the TMZ guys going on about the lives of others thriving on negative and bad news. You are a piece of shit. I checked the video. You and your stupid ass followers must all be drunk or you know nothing about hunting to make such comments. You are feeding the antis with news to burn the hunting communities. Are you stupid? I expected a bit more from you but it seems you are nothing but a yellow belly redneck. I stay in Brooklyn New York and I am going to mail all my friends in New York, Colorado and California now and launch a public attack on you and your company. I am tired of sick fuckers like like you that cause more harm to the hunting industry than any good whilst the guys you accuse and make false statements of are actually doing the good in Africa. I have seen it with my own eyes. I don't have anything further to say to you apart from watch your back buddy. I am coming for you. I will publish this letter and I will let people know who you really are and we will take you down. Bobby | |||
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He's "coming for you"? He won't do it unless your drugged up and it's a "cage fight"  | |||
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The video has been removed from the site following a complaint - only 1? I did not see it, but maybe that's for the best. Aaron - If Bobby calls to make an appointment, (I'm not holding my breath), give me the particulars so I can be there to deal with all his "friends" while you whip his ass. Is it just me or does Bobby sound like a South African??? Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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I wonder if Bobby is the fat ass in the video. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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It looks like they took down the video of the drugged lion slaughter. I would never hunt with these scumbags; they make all of look like crap. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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OK, I couldn't help myself. I found the vid on YouTube, for all to see, just as I suspected I would. These guys are just so-o-o proud of themselves. Vinny Lion Hunt with Hunting Legends http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isKZBrcFbvc What a POS, both Vinny and Hunting Legends. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Thanks for the link. I left comments for the scumbags. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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My favorite (loosely used) part is when 10 fat guys in bad mossy oak camo huddle up 20 yards from the "African Lion" to decide what to do next. Brilliant. At one point, one clown says "spine him". Were they worried the leash was going to break? I agree with Aaron - I'm not necessarily against the concept of SA lion hunting but if this is it, it's awful and embarrassing. | |||
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I too left comments, and there is no doubt how I feel when one reads them. | |||
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Come on now. Is this any worse than any other domestic farm animal gets in the US feedlots? It's not hunting, but if its not against SA law, I can't say where I have a right to say you can't do it. Having said that, I don't expect to take pictures of me slaughtering a beef cow and putting that up for public viewing, either. Showing that video on a public format is not something that shows any respect to game animals. | |||
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Well, the latest email is between "Bobby" and some representative from HUNTING LEGENDS, with me copied on it. I still have no idea who "Bobby" is? Bobby's asking for permission to "take me down", and tells them I need a good "hiding"  HL on the other hand plans to take me up with SCI, and their legal team  I guess when you post a link to a video/other threads, that are on public websites & Youtube, it somehow is a violation of something??  | |||
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I looked at the video for a second time and I tell you...it's hard to watch! It made me sick to my stomach watching the Lion trying to pull the arrow out. Forget about an anti-hunter seeing it...this abortion will turn anyone off. You South African PH's should be going crazy over this!! This video does nothing but enhance what ALLOT of hunters already think of PH's from SA as opposed to say PH's from Zimbabwe. Those fat bastards disgrace all of you who are professional and ethical...you should be all over this. | |||
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CR - Is it worse? Ya, I see your point. Maybe I would say though, that domestic farm animals in U.S. feedlots are not slaughtered for "sport", put on Youtube for all to see, and made to somehow seem like good fun? I certainly agree that its NOT illegal, and thus I have never been able to say I am AGAINST it totally, or find it un-acceptable. If this is the way some do it, at least for heaven-sakes, don't put it on the internet for the world to see. Not only was it on the website, but Youtube as well. Man, talk about shooting ourselves in the foot! | |||
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There is so much wrong with this that I hardly know where to start. That is not a wild lion, and may very well be a tranquilized lion. The so-called hunter is almost unbelievably naive, or stupid, or both, to believe otherwise. His archery equipment was obviously insufficient to the task. The so-called outfitters condemn themselves. Their actions, and their characterization of this as a "lion hunt," are ridiculous. Thanks for posting a link to this Aaron. It is sickening, but until one actually sees it, one can't fully appreciate how repugnant it is. As for "Bobby" and "Vinny" and the "HL" crew, I can only register my complete and utter disgust. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Aaron, I think we pretty much agree there. I really fail to see the point of posting it. Heck, it kills any point to brag about the experience if you show that "film"- you would think that the guy involved would want the less seen of that bit. My point is all the chest thumping about how "wrong" it is to have done it in the first place is out of place. Putting it out of film = boorish. Hunters dividing up against other legitimate consumptive use of resources = foolish. Before I get flamed, I am not calling this hunting. Its agriculture, not hunting, and while not something I find entertaining, still not enough to raise any righteous indignation on my part. | |||
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It is far worse because it is being called "hunting" and is ruining the image of hunting in the eye of the public. And, when the average non-hunter is confronted with the distasteful image of feedlot animal processing they can reconcile their repulsion by rationalizing that the feedlot serves a purpose(it benefits them by providing the meat they consume). When they see a morbidly obese/completely out-of-shape "hunter" killing a drugged captive lion they have no way to rationalize that it is OK. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Well, I am "morbidly obese" and killed a wild one in Tanz. Get off the obese hunter/hunter splitting kick. It does none of us any good. | |||
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I agree, I can't watch that. I have only been to Africa once. We were driving and came upon a Blue wildebeest kill with two large males eating at it. We were within 20 feet of them watching them eat. We watched them for a good half hour. I could have stuck a spear in them. It just seems way to easy kill something that docile and beautiful and wouldn't have if I could. Same as the video I just watched. I would just rather be stalking something and hoping it wasn't stalking me also. Maybe there is more to the video, if there is they should post it than. | |||
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Unfortunately a lot of people think that "perception is reality". I hate that statement but people ofter stereotype morbidly obese with being lazy or being a slob. I know that this is not true and disagree with it. My father was heavy and was was neither lazy or a slob but the perception to some is that he was. When a video such as this is posted the fact that the guy looks like he ate his own children for breakfast before he "stalked" this lion on the Kalahari with his bow makes it look even worse than it may actually be. I dont think that anybody was trying to disrespect you in any way, shape or form with the comments about the guys weight. We all despise it when these types of images are posted on the internet and the fact that the guy could stand to lose a couple hundy made it stand out | |||
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Wow. Reading through this thread I thought maybe things were getting a bit blown out of proportion....then I saw the youtube link. Wow. That is embarrassing. | |||
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I'm would not call this lion killing "legitimate consumptive use of resources", but I will set that debate aside for the moment. Hunters must draw a line in the sand regarding what qualifies as hunting. I think most all of us can agree that killing a drugged, planted animal with an underpowered weapon is not hunting. If we defend these killings(or allow them to go uncriticized by the hunting community) we are doing ourselves a great disservice. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Drummond You echo my thoughts/intent precisely. If anyone looks at my recent Cameroon hunt report you will see that I was well into the obese range. In spite of being fat I was in good marching shape and was able to march 7 hours(16 miles) on a regular basis throughout the hunt. I lost 15 pounds during the hunt and have dropped another five after returning home. For the first time in 12 years I am not in the "obese" range. My point is that I know what it is like to battle weight, and I sure don't want anyone to think I am putting them down. Some obese people lead very active lives, Drummond's father and Zim PH Gavin Rorke are two examples. But the guy in this film is an example of the opposite. Did you notice his labored breathing during his retelling of the hunt? Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Look at this! They shot a lot of drugged up cats on that trip. These guidos must LOVE shooting lions http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...index=6&feature=plcp | |||
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If this video makes so many of us sick, just think how the non-hunting public will react to it. 465H&H | |||
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Hey Aaron, good news is if "Bobby" is one of those guidos in the you tube videos and he actually shows up I can guarantee that he'll gas before you do | |||
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Ladies and Gentlemen, This is the sort of thing that makes me deslike the SCI holy grail, of Bigger Is Better mentality, and some South African outfitters are making a killing out of it. After all the cries from hunters, SCI stopped putting these sort of lions in their record book. BUT! There are outfitters who specialize in transporting captive animals to other locations, where they are shot and claimed as real trophies. All one has to do is look at the trophy photos posted on the outfitters site, and see how many high scoring SCI animals are shown. Remember the captured buffalo in Zimbabwe a while back? That got shot somewhere else? I tend to agree with AAron said. THis is legal, so I suppose people can participate in it. I don't like it, but showing it as a real trophy hunt is rediculous. Both the hunter and the PH KNOW that they are shooting a canned lion. Any silly excuse that the client might have been hoodwinked is not true. | |||
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The "If it's legal, then live and let live" argument has been used for years here on AR. Many on the board also tend to adopt an "I don't care what other people think" type of attitude when it comes to hunting and its perception outside the community. In an era before Youtube, these might have been acceptable approaches....but when BAD PHs have unrestricted access to mass media and anti-hunting groups have similar access but with MUCH more money, I think we had better police ourselves or we damned sure won't like the way society eventually paints us all with a very VERY broad brush. There are plenty of things that are legal in this world that you wouldn't want to advertise if you were participating. Further, you sure as hell wouldn't want people doing horrible things and then identifying themselves WITH YOU! My father always used to say, "You are judged by the company you keep" and I think that simple maxim applies here. We are too often keeping bad company as hunters. | |||
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Saeed - Even you and I have had our mild dis-agreements over lion issues in the past, but you're exactly right on here IMO. Just call it what it is, "shooting"! And if that's what one wants to do, then carry on I suppose. I don't think it has any negative effect on the wild lion populations of Africa, the one thing that has always been at the root of my issues with lion "hunting" in the past. But please, for heaven sakes - DO NOT put this all over the internet for the world to see, and use it as an example of the perception of Lion "Hunting"! That's the issue I take with it, and the same issue I think the vast majority of the posters here, have with it too. | |||
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Aaron it must be possible to find the ip adress from this bobby idiot!! | |||
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Wow...gone for a weekend and see what I miss. Ole Booby...I mean Bobby definitely needs a good ole fashioned @$$-whoopin! For the record...feed-lot cattle are not subjected to anythin like that video. Good job Aaron! Like Dave says...you only take flak when directly over the target. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Sorry, but I'm laughing at that one. Thanks! Brian Clark Blue Skies Hunting Adventures www.blueskieshunting.com Email at: info@blueskieshunting.com African Cape Trophy Safaris www.africancapesafaris.com Email at: brian@africancapesafaris.com 1-402-689-2024 | |||
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not surprised at all sadly. | |||
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Antbody figure out who this Bobby guy is?? I couldn't sleep all weekend infear of Bobby doing harm to Aaron!!!!!  Doug McMann www.skinnercreekhunts.com ph# 250-476-1288 Fax # 250-476-1288 PO Box 27 Tatlayoko Lake, BC Canada V0L 1W0 email skinnercreek@telus.net | |||
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If he looks anything like Vinny I'm scared he's gonna eat him He's apparently an AR member, if he had any balls he'd chime in publicly | |||
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Isn't he the guy listing hunts on EBAY? | |||
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