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I usually misspell it "penninsula" instead of "peninsula," too many N's instead of too few. The taxidermist or producer of that little plaque did worse. Glad somebody noticed: "Alaska Penisula."  | |||
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I feel pretty good about being the first to notice after that plaque has been displayed for over 25 years. "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it". Fred Bear | |||
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Dog Man, Shame on you for sticking that hyphen in your quote of me above.  Oh come on, I noticed, but why would I want to change that part of it? Refined it to "sniped" instead of "taken" yes. But "Alaska Penisula" says it all for a solo caribou hunt. Guided safari hunting in luxury camps is great fun yes, but pretty sissy by comparison.  Though he may not excel at it like Saeed, even Walter can survive that ... with a lot of help from his friends!   | |||
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Actually, Mark Sullivan videos demonstrate my point very well about buffalo. Just see how many times him and his clients have to shoot buffalo to kill them. | |||
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So now we are back to the false statements based on emotion rather than facts, especially where compared to other "well respected" PHs who have hunting DVDs on the market? I thought that's what we objected to with Joloburn's comments?  But since the previous fishing trip didn't land a catch, I suppose we've chartered a new boat, eh?  | |||
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Todd, You have your opinion, and I have mine. I have been hunting buffalo for 30 years, and my experience is diametrically opposite to Mark Sullivan. Buffalo are no harder to kill than ANY other animal - provided your first shot is correctly placed. Mark Sullivan gets his few minutes of fame because of his and his clients screw ups, nothing more. Hunt long enough, and shoot enough animals, and you will see what I mean. Even a duiker or an impala shot badly will give you a hard day's chase. Admittedly, he is less likely to hurt you when you do catch up with him. Again, unless you are extremely unlucky, or take unnecessary chances, you will be able to finish your buffalo without a charge. Bloody hell, I bet I can get ANY wounded animal to charge me if I wanted to. Here we are talking about hunting buffalo. Some of us like to use an open sighted double, hence their requirement to get close. Others like to use a scoped rifle, which gives them the advantage of taking longer shots. Who is to tell which hunter is right or not? NONE! Each hunter hunts the way HE wants to hunt. | |||
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Saeed, You certainly have more buffalo hunting experience than I. But I do have enough experience to have my on valid opinions. I've killed one out of 6 with a single shot. That's it. And with the exception of the buffalo depicted in Video B, all were hit properly on the first shot. Even that buffalo simply was hit with a single lung shot, the result of placing the bullet about 3 inches too far to the left because I misread the angle at which he was standing, and would have died if we didn't pursue him immediately, forcing him to keep the adrenaline going. From that standpoint, I can't say he was hit "improperly". He certainly wasn't gut shot or hit with a non-fatal blow. My first buff, as described previously, was shot at about 30 yards, with what can only be described as "proper" shot placement. An additional 4 shots with the 416 Rigby was necessary to get him to leave his feet. All fired within 30 yards and all properly placed right into the boiler room. Of course, had I left him to suffer, he would have also died of that first and only shot. Yes, you have a lot of buffalo hunting experience. But your personal experience pales in comparison to the collective experiences of other DG hunters. Many with "names", many without. Boddington, Shockey, etc. None of them profess that killing a cape buffalo with more than a single shot should be considered a failure. In fact, quite the opposite is true. But more to the specific point here, what was the purpose of your two fishing expedition posts on this thread. The first brought up head shots to buff that didn't get any response. Then this one again bringing up Sullivan. In response to what? Threads usually run a bit in succession, one post following the other. This often leads to "thread drift". This one certainly had drifted. So what was the point of re-raising the Sullivan angle? I don't see the tie in. And then to resurrect Sullivan with a statement that has been proven false with objective data. Do you really not see how the Sullivan comments that are not born out with fact, but rather made from an emotional rejection of his techniques, are exactly in line with the same type of emotional statements that Joloburn makes when commenting on lions and the local peoples? I care little either way if a man objects or admires Sullivan's techniques. But I really find it insulting to my intelligence to be repeatedly feed comments that aren't true and obviously emotional in nature, regardless of the source. But if you want to go down that road again, I'll bite this time. You've stated once again that Sullivan and his clients shoot an excessive number of times to kill a buffalo. Cal posted the facts from the videos. They are not out of line with other "respected" PHs with hunting videos. Hell, just today, I watched Tracks Across Africa where Mark Valero and his client were hunting lion. They shot a buff bull for bait. The client shot twice and Mark, the PH, shot twice. So, the PH joined in and there were 4 shots total taken. The 4 shots really seems to be in line with my experience and other posters experiences. Also in line with most of the DVDs and TV shows. Did Mark need to jumpt in and help? That's his business if he felt it necessary as he is the professional and I'd not question him on it. Like you, I've never had a PH join in on shooting one of my animals. But I've never even brought up the subject. If they need to, fine. I don't have an ego about it. With as many buffalo as you've shot, and never, not a single time, has a PH joined in, unless you are super human, I have to wonder if you're not one of those clients who roll into camp, tying the PHs hands, laying down the law by prohibiting him from doing his job if necessary. I wonder, have you ever lost a buffalo? But hey, you're spot on about no one can tell another how to hunt his DG animals. Not as long as each man is paying his own way. I pay my own way and I like it up close and personal. That's all. And the boys hunting with Sullivan are paying their own way and know exactly what they are getting before hand. I don't believe Sullivan get's his "few minutes of fame because of his and his clients screw ups, nothing more" as you state. He gets his "few minutes of fame" because he has very intelligently developed his own niche that many people find interesting enough to spend their money and purchase the DVDs. He also seems to have no problem filling his hunt schedule. Regardless of whether a man agrees or respects his hunting techniques or not, it is a FACT that Sullivan has sold untold thousands of videos. It's also a FACT that he has no problem finding clients, even during these times of economic challenges. If those successes are simply the result of "his clients and his own screw ups", I'd have to say that's amazing!! And more power to him!! For the life of me, I haven't a clue why the man threatens you so! I have to wonder, in the world of African hunters and the safari industry at large, how many people have heard of Mark Sullivan and how many have heard of the Accurate Reloading website? Yep, any animal hit incorrectly will give you fits trying to finish the job. But I, and many, many others, DO see a difference with buffalo. The only animal I've ever shot properly, meaning heart and or lung shot, with a well built and properly performing bullet, from a suitable caliber of rifle, that did not either immediately fall DRT, or run 50 to 100 yards and fall dead, is a cape buffalo. I've personally seen the multiple shot requirement enough times to know that the single shot kill on a buffalo is the exception, not the rule, unless that is, you give them 30 minutes or so to stiffen and die without pursuing immediately. "Hunt long enough and shoot enough animals and you'll see what I mean" you say to me in your post. Man, I've been hunting now for 43 years. I've shot my fair share of animals in that time. Enough to know that drawing blood every time I go afield is far, far less important to me than the quality of the hunt. A buffalo at 270 yards? Go ahead killer!! It's not my idea of hunting! That's killing. I got that out of my system back when I only had 20 years or so of hunting experience. | |||
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Those mornings in my memories standing in the faint light of dawn. The smell of buffalo "on the wind" A gift JUST to be standing there... I understand preferences but there is no right way. As the light comes up and the hunt begins I'll take what the day brings And be Damn happy to have it | |||
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Thank you Ravenr. That was refreshing. "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it". Fred Bear | |||
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Todd, The many PH who have literally hundreds of year between them look at Mark Sullivan as the " village idiot". In fact, the description "village idiot" was told to me by a very famous PH, with over 50 years of dangerous game hunting under his belt. He said he has had 3 charges in all his PH life. One was a wounded lion, one was an elephant cow, and one was a buffalo wounded by a snare. The lion was wounded by a client of another PH, and they asked him to come and help kill it. In fact, he had that proud look on his face when he said he had never, ever, had an animal he was hunting charge him. Compare that with your hero. No true Ph goes out of his way to get a charge from a buffalo. How many shot did Mark and his clients fire in the example Cal posted? Doesn't that speak volumes about his way of hunting? Your buffalo did not die with one shot might be due to the large caliber you were using. A lowly 375 wound have done the trick with the first shot  In fact, all the Ph I have had the pleasure of hunting with, and those I have had the pleasure of talking to, have nothing good to say about Mark Sullivan and his silly antics. | |||
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Saeed, Sullivan my hero? Another emotional false statement. I've said repeatedly I have no interest in hunting with Sullivan. I'm indifferent to the man and his tactics. But I recognize them for what they are. Simply, a means to make the DVDs more exciting and generate sales. That's all. And he has succeeded at that based solely on the number of units sold and his name recognition across African hunting circles. Whether the response to his name is positive or negative doesn't change the fact that his name IS known. His presence in the hunting industry doesn't threaten me as it does you. Because of that, I can speak on the subject without false and sensationalized accusations. The only part of the entire sad saga that gets my dander up is being told it's raining while having my leg pissed on!! By that I mean, the repeated false statements based on emotion, read hatred, of the man. I've said it several times and I'll say it again, if a man deserves to be disparaged and discredited, he deserves it to be done with accurate and true statements. If it can't be done with the truth, then he doesn't deserve it. Leave the exaggeration out! There is plenty of negative commentary to be made citing the truth and the truth alone. Why continue citing how many charges other "respected" PHs have experienced? I would understand that line of commentary if the man was claiming the charges were of natural consequence to his hunting. He doesn't. Specifically, he states that he seeks to make the animal charge. No denials. Goes into great detail on how to make it happen. He does it to sell videos, pure and simple. Why not just state your objection to the tactic instead of trying to convince us that Sullivan's charges are the result of screw ups. They aren't! They are intentional. He readily admits that. What I find humorous is the lack of consistency Saeed. Joloburn comes onto the website making statements that are obviously inaccurate and disparaging of hunters. Her comments are easily recognized as being exaggerated with her emotional disapproval of hunters. Because of that, she looses any credibility. Do you not see that your emotional exaggerations of Sullivan's tactics, when solid evidence to the contrary has been presented, are viewed in the same light? | |||
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I have taken DG from a couple of inches to 100 yards, for me its not a deal breaker to get close. Actually I was alot happier with my 100 yards brain shot than my 2 inch leopard shot. | |||
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Break, chaff, flares, unload and extend... USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Too little time, and unfortunately too late for you, in any case. The entire thread should be easy enough to find, however - for anyone truly interested. Simple, but focused, use of the search function should suffice, I would think. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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As I said in an earlier post I also prefer getting as close as possible, I knew that my Water Buffalo hunt would be a once in a lifetime opportunity and wanted to get as close as possible. I managed to get within 40 yards and I think shooting it at long range would have been an anti climax for me. Even with breaking the shoulder and hitting both lungs with the first shot the bull still took another 4 shots. Here is a link to the hunt : Water Buffalo hunt - Australia Charl Schoeman Professional Hunter and Outfitter e-mail : charl@sainet.co.za tel : +2783 651 7433 | |||
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Nice big buff Charl. I saw that on your hunt report in the OZ/NZ section. I'm with you. I like em up close and I don't view multiple shots on buffalo to be a failed hunt. Quite the contrary. Congrats on your buff. | |||
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Thanks Todd. I had several opportunities to shoot a good bull out on the plains, would have been 150 -200m shots but I passed them up. Charl Schoeman Professional Hunter and Outfitter e-mail : charl@sainet.co.za tel : +2783 651 7433 | |||
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Would someone please post the "Official AR" distance, line in the sand if you will, for making the decision on whether a Buffalo is "sniped" or "properly" taken.  Thanks!!Larry Sellers SCI Life Member | |||
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I concur. Now it's official. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Several definitions of "snipe" are based on the shooter being concealed or hidden. If a buffalo can see you, hear you or smell you then you are not hidden or concealed and therefore you are not sniping. At 50.0002 yards in the tall grass, in complete silence with the wind in your favor a hunter would be sniping. All rules must have footnotes and qualifiers. | |||
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I concur. Now it's official, again. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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That's probably a pretty good definition IMO. Someone earlier wrote that they like to get to the point where the animal becomes aware of their presence before taking the shot on DG such a buffalo and elephant. I like that definition as that usually forces one to make a quick thinking decision as to take the shot or not. But thats just my opinion and certainly not a definition anyone else has to agree with. | |||
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I would much rather the animal did not know who or where I am when I shoot it. It does not appeal to me to shout: I AM MARK SULLIVAN, I HAVE HERE A 600 NITRO EXPRESS DOUBLE RIFLE. YOU ARE A WOUNDED BUFFALO, AND ONLY HAVE YOUTR HORNS. DECIDE HOW YOU WOULD LIKE TO DIE! BANG! BANG! Mark Sullivan turning to the camera, breathing heavily to emphasize what is saying: "I let the buffalo decide how he wants to die"  | |||
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Obsessed Much? | |||
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Geez - Now I am going to have to carry a rangefinder when Buff hunting. Not to calculate the shot distance but to make sure it's within the AR "no sniping" zone.  Thanks for clearing up this very important matter. Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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The fish aren't biting today!  At least not on Top Water baits! | |||
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Todd - Not yet anyway!!! Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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Not at all! Just emphasizing the stupidity of his behavior in the field and in front of the camera  | |||
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Todd - nice shooting. I have a question about video B. It appeared as though the PH grasped the back of your shirt and rather pulled and pushed you along. None of my PH's have done that with me and frankly I don't think I would like it. Did you feel that or was it something that you were unaware of? To me the only part of a typical safari that the hunter actually gets to do something on his own is the final stalk and shot. I am curious about this grasp of the shirt. Does it lessen your sense of accomplishment? CORRECTION: (Not intending to be critical - I know that PH has probably determined he could get the hunter better odds by doing that). Sorry Buzz, I have been informed that PH was not you. Obviously I don't know what I am talking about sometimes and this is one of them. ALLEN W. JOHNSON - DRSS Into my heart on air that kills From yon far country blows: What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those? That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, The happy highways where I went And cannot come again. A. E. Housman | |||
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Larry, I don't know how we are going to do this. I don't know of a rangefinder that breaks it down in less than yards/meters............... | |||
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Funny you mention this Allen. I have seen it in several videos, but have never had it happen to me. And only one PH, Pierre who you know very well, has asked if I wanted to stay behind when a bull I had shot went into long grass. I told him I would rather tag along, as I don't feel very comfortable sending him into the long grass on his own. We found the bull stone dead anyway. | |||
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Todd thanks for showing two great videos of satisfying hunts for both a successful longer range shot and a closer encounter. I have participated in longer range shooting with a scoped rifle, long range with a double rifle, and also very close shooting with a double rifle. For me, as you know, up close is where it’s at with dangerous game. It is what makes it dangerous game hunting in my opinion and not simply dangerous game killing from afar. To each his own, but having experienced both, I would feel cheated if I did not choose to battle it out up close whenever the opportunity allowed. Not everyone feels the same way or has the desire to do so and that is fine. Regarding the recent comments about how a PH positions his clients while close to game and moving closer, often it is easier to move and position someone with the touch of a hand or a grasp of clothing as opposed to constantly verbalizing what you are trying to accomplish. JMO. Best always, Shawn Shawn Joyce Diizche Safari Adventures P.O. Box 1445 Lincoln, CA 95648 E-mail: shawn.joyce@diizchesafariadventures.net Cell: (916) 804-3318 Shoot Straight, Live the Dream, and Keep Turning the Pages to Your Next Adventure!™ Website- www.DiizcheSafariAdventures.com Blog- http://diizchesafari.blogspot.com/ Twitter- http://twitter.com/DiizcheSafari YouTube- http://www.youtube.com/user/shawncjoyce Facebook- http://on.fb.me/gYytdn Instagram: diizchesafari_official | |||
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My 100 yard ele below, will see if I can upload my leopard hunt on photobucket also. | |||
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Congratulations Anton! Very well done. You had gotten as close as was possible & were certainly not hidden from the ele's view. Excellent shooting my friend. I even got a little adrenaline rush watching it unfold. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Hi Allen. About Blake grabbing my shirt. He did it twice. Once when we first bumped the bull early in the follow up. The second time right at the end. If you have the sound turned up enough, you can hear him say "Don't run, Don't run, he's not going anywhere". So he was just trying to keep me from running too far out in front of him while we were in tight quarters. I think he was trying to get me into position to shoot the first time with non-verbal cues because with his angle, he had a shot at him, but I didn't, and Blake knew he was about to run. The shirt grab really bothers some guys. For whatever reason, it doesn't bother me at all. Blake and I are good buddies anyway so I really didn't think much about it. Honestly, there were a couple of instances where I spotted something first and I grabbed his arm or shirt to move him where his line of sight wasn't obstructed. Again, it doesn't bother me so much but I understand many don't care for the technique. Blake is also a new PH so I imagine he is still developing his field manner to some extent. Rich, the PH in Video A, has much more experience and will occasionally grab a shirt as well. Here is the video where my younger son shot a buff cow for my leopard bait, you'll see Rich grab Garrett's shirt in the same manner as they were walking up for the insurance shot. I imagine Blake learned this from Rich as they spent much time together while Blake was an Appie. In fact, that is Blake in Video A as well helping out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srbT8zRcZ5c ( BTW, definitely a sniping shot!! There's only so much real danger a Dad will allow his 16 year old boy to be exposed to ya know!! Garrett loved every minuted of it of course!) They are both really good PHs. Excellent in fact. Completely different in their styles however. Rich is very quiet and about the most intense / serious PH you can imagine. He is a TOUGH guy who works extremely hard on behalf of the client, never giving up for any reason. I've never seen such a short guy walk so fast in the field! He covers some ground. Blake is a very easy going, incredibly polite young man who is very attuned to the future of our sport from a conservation standpoint. Always looking for interesting things to point out that the client might find of value. Vastly experienced for his age and amount of time he's held a full Zim license. Both are very good at putting the client in front of game and making really good judgement calls. I'll be hunting with Buzz as my PH this year but in all honesty, I'd have no problems hunting with Blake or Rich anytime in the future. No one wants to be "handled" but there are a limited number of times where I think the shirt grab has it's purpose. I think being up in the thick stuff and in close proximity to the game is one of those times as often, just a few inches change in visual perspective is necessary to get off a shot, and being able to move a client into that position without making a sound can be important. | |||
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Pagosa - I hear you loud and clear and this is the way I see it. I will look at the rangefinder screen and if it shows 49 yds or less I will immediately know I am inside the "offical AR no sniping zone" and not be up for any bashing here. And if I am that close might actually wish I had my bow instead of the rifle.  But that brings up another possible no-no here.  Larry Sellers SCI Life Member
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Carry a yard stick instead of a rangefinder, if he's close enough to hit with the yardstick, your close enough to not be sniping. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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Now that is a way to make a determination!  Shawn Joyce Diizche Safari Adventures P.O. Box 1445 Lincoln, CA 95648 E-mail: shawn.joyce@diizchesafariadventures.net Cell: (916) 804-3318 Shoot Straight, Live the Dream, and Keep Turning the Pages to Your Next Adventure!™ Website- www.DiizcheSafariAdventures.com Blog- http://diizchesafari.blogspot.com/ Twitter- http://twitter.com/DiizcheSafari YouTube- http://www.youtube.com/user/shawncjoyce Facebook- http://on.fb.me/gYytdn Instagram: diizchesafari_official | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting To Snipe or Not to Snipe -- A Tale of Two Buffalo Hunts
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