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I was once directed by a PH to snipe at a buffalo 150 yards distant when he paused as the dagga boy band of five ran across a clearing. I sniped. Here is my trophy picture from that shot, at a pause in the 2-day quest to find a buffalo named Chester, found only two drops of blood: | |||
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That is very true. I have been present when a few PH have actually managed to get enough courage and say Walter is a PH's worst nightmare! | |||
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recoil is the only thing keeping my heart pumping | |||
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The heart pumping too much is not necessarily a good thing.I have heard someone say that how you feel in your head reflects on how you feel outside. Going two weeks with a headache and not knowing if it will ever go away is not good for your health for sure. | |||
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After you have "sniped out," sort of like fouling out in baseball, you are not allowed to shoot another buffalo. So then, of course, you will have all sorts of opportunities for closer shots with your pocket camera: Or like this: | |||
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I have a 450 NE DR that I am practicing with and am going to take to Zim next time. I am contemplating putting a red dot on it, or at least taking one along just in case. I will however also take the 416 with the trijicon on it and have one of the trackers lug it along. Last trip to zim I shot a cow buff at 30 yards, a big bull at 70 (small snipe)a tuskless at about 40 feet and a Sable at about 150 yards (definate snipe). The freaking cat was only about 80 yards but it was dark and it was tucked into the brush and I used the 375 on sticks with the big scope. I think I can get along ok buffs and ele's with the double as long as its within 70 yards, after that - red dot time or 416. Also, IMHO the 375 with A-Frames is to much gun for a leopard. The bullet wizzed right thru. I think more frangible bullet would be better for cats. A 30/06 more than sufficient. Dang thing was still alive when we got to it although it was a fairly perfect shot considering the position of the cat when I pulled the trigger. Needless to say, it received a couple more in short order | |||
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Very true SS. But even more to the point is that I started the thread as a continuation to Saeed's thread asking whether close up hunting of DG is about experiencing danger as the reason for choosing that method. Saeed's thread was a continuation of the discussion generated by Cal Pappas's thread detailing the Mark Sullivan videos. The purpose of the two video clips was to demonstrate that while I, (and Larry, this is important as it's just my opinion and I was only seeking other's input, not telling others how to do something) prefer the up close method depicted in Video B, I don't think there is anything depicted in Video B that would suggest the method is more dangerous than method A. In Saeed's thread, some had suggested up close hunting of DG was "foolishly" placing oneself and the hunting party at significant danger. I think the video clips show otherwise. B, while more exciting, isn't more dangerous than A, therefore that can't be the reason for the preference. Twice I attempted to redirect the discussion back into perspective as a continuation of Saeed's thread. But you know, threads drift the longer they run. Even so, what the hell is the purpose of participating on a forum about African hunting if one can't talk about the hunts they've experienced and the hunts they are dreaming of doing? Reminiscing, planning, and even anticipating the next hunt is what drives many of us. It certainly does me. Hell, I can't go an hour or so without thinking about getting back on Safari. Sorry the fellas discussing their hunts put you off so. I don't think that was anyone's intention. | |||
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Interesting discussion, if you ignore the sausage-heads, and an interesting corellary to one I've had many many times here in Alaska regarding brown bears. You can shoot one at 150yds and come away with a nice trophy and a big thrill, but many of us prefer (for multiple reasons) to get to 50yds or closer. Many don't know that until you sneak within 30yds of a big brown, you've robbed yourself of the real juice, and a life changing experience. My only comparable experience was getting close to elephants. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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Damn George, you must feel like S-H-I-T!! Ba-da-bing! I'll be here all week! | |||
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this shootershit guy is an entertaining SOB! he comes up with some funny stuff. Must be cause the air is thin where he is at, or maybe what he smokes. Please enlighten me: who said anything about headaches to dictate this response from this "fellow" To get back on track with the original subject (I know, its hard) Hunting is the reason most of us expend the vast amounts of time and money to do the things we do. Shooting and killing is the result of hunting. For me its all about the hunting. If I hunt and end up un-succesful in aquiring what I am hunting for, its still a great experiance. For a few, its the shooting and killing. IMHO the wrong reason. However, each to his own. I personally like to get as close as reasonable. In some cases you cant get very close if you want to take a particular animal, noteably plains game, elk, deer etc. They just dont let you get very close usually. For DG I have hunted and shot black bear, mountain lion, bison, (lately one a year for meat), cape buff, leopard, and elephant, all within a 80 yards, most closer On two occasions I have come close to getting freight trained. Once by a cow buffalo that charged the group as we were walking thru the long grass, she had been wounded by lions. After we parted and she went thru she went on her way. The second time and defiantly a more close call was a Tahr last year on the south island. He busted thru the Mugauri and wilding pines straight at me and I hip shot him at about 10 feet with a TC single shot. He was going to run my ass over. Imagine that, Tahr as DG | |||
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One can only work hard, play the wind and light to the best of one's ability, and try to get as close to the buff as possible. Taking or not taking any shot offerred is always a judgment call. I know that I have passed on more shots than I have taken. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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We followed a herd of buffalo for hours. It was spotty bush, and we could not get a clear shot at any bull. We stayed with them, always in the hope we might get lucky and get a mature bull. We passed through some dungas, and at one stage a snake actually passed between me and Roy while we were crawling in a dry river bed. Roy was ahead of me. And as he got his head up from the river bed, he put the shooting sticks up. This was my signal to get onto them and be ready. "They are very far" he said. "Yes, very far for buffalo" I answered him. A good bull we had our eyes on, got clear, walking quartering away. I fired at him, and he took off and disappeared. We heard the shot connect. We walked to see what had happened. About 50 yards from him, we found him stone dead. We measured the distance and found it 270 yards. A good conclusion to a great buffalo hunt. | |||
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Sniper Saeed!!! It takes some good sized mothballs to shoot like that at a Cape Buff. Well done IMO as long as you enjoyed your hunt | |||
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Damn Surestrike, I've never been called "elite" before! You suppose Obama would like me to join him and all the other celebrities from Hollywood, even if I am republican, but "ELITE"? ...................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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I voted neither, I think you needed to get closer in Video B and through a rock at it first ... Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I shot my 8 1/2' brown bear (not a monster but a good bear) at 13 yards and it was a thrill. I hit him real good with a 300g A-Frame he tumbled twice and roared into the thick stuff. A few minutes later we began to follow the blood trail through the "pucker brush". I wouldn't give that fifteen minutes back for anything in the world. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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We followed some bulls into a real thicket, which they like to get into after they had their drink from the lake. We had to mover VERY SLOOOWLY when we got into the thick stuff, as we did not want to make them aware of us. This started quite early in the morning, and after a lot of crawling on our hands and knees, and slithering on our stomachs, we located them lying down. All we could see was a dark spot, and the wind was good. This continued for quite sometime. And we were making good progress that was measured in a sort inches per minute pace. Eventually we thought we got one in a good position to shoot. Roy was trying very hard to see how the bull's position was. He kept moving a few inches to the right, and a few inches to the left. All in the hope of finding a clear slot for the shot. "Which way is he facing?" I asked Roy. "I am not sure. That is what I am trying to find out. But he is lying down." We crawled closer and closer, and when we got to a few yards from him, Roy turned around with a big grin on his face after have had a loooong look at the bull. "It is a log!" "Ha?" "It is a log. We have been stalking a log. The buffalo must have gone" They won that day. A few days later, we did the same thing again, and we managed to get two bulls, one of them no more than 10 yards away. On another occasion, we shot a bull across the Luzi River in Zimbabwe. After the shot he took off, and I put two more bullets in him as he was running. That slowed him down, and he stopped, and turned towards us. I was shooting sitting down, with my elbows resting on my knees. I fired another shot at him, and he dropped. He was over 300 yards away. We had to drive back to camp, and come back in the boat. When we cut him up, we found my last shot had gone through his heart. Three more enjoyable buffalo hunts. | |||
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We were driving along looking for them. We'd seen them earlier in the day and were hoping they staying in the area through the midday heat. Suddenly, Blake saw movement and stopped the cruiser. The trackers bailed off the truck while Agent handed me the rifle. There they were! Two of them moving from left to right, heading toward that big hill over which they would surely disappear if they reached it. We dropped into a small depression and hurriedly attempted to close the distance to something reasonable. As they were out in the open, as were we, the last 40 yards were spent belly crawling into position. Just a few more yards before they spook and I'll have a nice small tree on which to rest the double rifle. With as much stealth as we could manage, moving slowly, slowly, I laid the scoped 9.3X74R double over the tree limb and let fly. 240 yards away, my quarry dropped DRT. Perfect shot. A nice kudo cow to be used for baiting the lion we had been chasing the previous 10 days!! At that range, what's the difference between a kudo cow and a buffalo but about $15,000? | |||
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Both great videos Todd and thanks for sharing them. I've seen video B before and commented on the number of hits from the .577 needed to get the job done and I totally understand why. For me there is simply NO CONTEST. Video B is simply as good as it gets and is most definitely my kind of hunt. The excitement and adrenalin are off the scale and that makes it such a special experience. Just brilliant stuff. | |||
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Obviously I vote both, as both appeared to be great hunts. however, the hunter looked rather cheesy..... | |||
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You owed me that one! | |||
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That is just one of several 577NEs, and 600NEs that I have witnessed that banged a buffalo right through the shoulder/heart/lung boiler-room at very close range that didn't get the job done, and consequently required several shots to finish. Butch Searcy shot a Botswana buffalo perfectly with his 577NE double and then had to dig him out of the palmettos with several shots more. Cal hit a buffalo perfectly with his 600NE double rifle and it simply turned and ran off and the chase was on. Buffalo are tough and sometimes simply refuse to die, no matter what they are hit with Unless the brain or spine is hit. It is my opinion, however, that a 500NE is a better killer than the larger chamberings. That may be that people shoot the 500NE better. Taylor said it best with a paraphrase “The belief that a big bore bullet like the 577NE will pole-ax any animal, is, what Taylor called a dangerous illusion” That may not be an exact quote, but I simply couldn't find it without reading one of his books from cover to cover again. ...................................................................... ............. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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My second buff took 8. 500 gr .458 Lott rounds before he gave up the ghost. the last one was a head shot as finisher. The first shot was just hair to far forward on the shoulder and then it was game on kind of like Todd's video. He was mucho sick but he just wouldn't quit. Buff can be tenacious as all get out and then sometimes they just flop over dead with a very similar shot. That's part of the allure of buff hunting to me. You never know for sure which one you are going to get. | |||
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The evidence I have studied would tend to agree with this. Not first hand mind, so open to be challenged, but the .500NE does seem to be one of the best double rifle cartridges for DG, period. My new H&H double will be in .500NE. It arrives next month and I can hardly wait. I'd like to order a Westley Richards Droplock, but already feel I have the right calibre, so have hit a dead-end on this one. I have a Heym .375 Flanged also arriving next month so really cannot think what else I would have a use for. | |||
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Surestrike, Once again, spot on with your comment. It's one of the reasons I love buffalo hunting so much. They have the ability to turn into battle tanks on occasion, regardless of how well they are shot. Once that adrenaline gets going, it's Katy Bar the Door! Of course, the battle tank transformation is less than awe inspiring at 300 yards! Mac and Maximus, Also spot on IMO. I think you guys have seen my repeated posts concerning my opinion that the 500NE seems to be the point at which the law of diminishing returns sets in. IMO, the 500NE offers a significant step up over the 450 to 470 class weapons while at the same time, remaining very similar in terms of rifle size, weight, recoil, and weight of ammunition. Stepping up to the Ultra Bores of 577NE and 600NE, while very cool weapons to hunt up close and personal with, from the standpoint of increased field performance in terms of perceived reaction by the animals when hit with such weapons, doesn't seem to justify the increase in weight and recoil of those rifles. Just my opinion however and I will state again; those Ultra Bore rifles are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot and hunt with. Hard to deny that!! | |||
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Saeed, I am sure you had the triceps muscles, just above the elbows, on your knees. No bone on bone, eh? I have used that shooting position to good effect too, it is my favorite. It is much better than shooting sticks made of crooked bamboo and rotting innertube rubber set on the slope of a termite mound: I once shot 3 caribou in 10 seconds at 150, 250, and 350 yards, from a sit, with a 340 Weatherby Fibermark and a Leupold 2.5x-8x, on Nov. 22, 1986. 150-yard bang: 250-yard bang: 350-yard bang-bang (back-up Freedom Arms .454 Casull SA revolver for size reference): They got bigger as the range increased. They all fell down at the shot. The last one at 350 yards was trying to get up, so I had to shoot him a second time. My trophy picture from that solo caribou hunt, you can see a tip of the biggest caribou behind my head, and icicles on my mustache: Home Sweet Home on the Alaska Penninsula for 5 days: They called the location "Danny's Dune" because a pilot named Danny planted his plane there, a Piper Cherokee, seen here after scavenged for parts: The jumping off place at the Visiting Officer's Quarters at King Salmon Air Force Station, Alaska, Home Sweet Home in a back pack. Went on a week's "leave" from here, hired bush pilot to drop me off and come back in 5 days to haul out the meat and antlers: | |||
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No offense intended but the difference in picture quality over the years is amazing. | |||
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Pocket instamatic, real film, developed and printed on 3"x5" or smaller paper, stuck in photoalbum for 26 years, aged and faded, lifted out of album, scanned to internet ... goobers and all! Look, there is a little plaque on the wall behind this dusty caribou that has been dead for over a quarter century: Now that I know that I qualified as a "sniper" a long time ago, and I just sniped this thread: Highjack off. | |||
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African Big Game Hunting forum, yes? Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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RIP, At least you didn't have the 340WBY mounted on a chopper!! | |||
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I suspect that close to 80% of the buffalo I have shot have died with one shot. Yesterday I was reading a book by and African PH, in which he clearly said that old buffalo bosses are known to DEFLECT bullets. Another load of bloody bullshit! I have shot many old bulls in the head, from different angles. The bullets always got in and the bulls have always dropped in their tracks. I have had some arguments with friends talking about what old timers have written about, and we have found that was not correct in our hunts at all. Animals are only hard to kill when YOU screw up your first shot. I have had this happen to me with all sorts of animals. Impala, duiker, zebra, sable and of course buffalo. Get your first shot in the right place, and rest assured your animal WILL die very shortly. | |||
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Head shots on buffalo: Could breathe some new life into this thread. So could a story about Saeed screwing up a shot on a buffalo. Unheard of! Here I am posing with a tracker in another one of my latest buffalo trophy photos, the green-toed boots at the lower edge of the photo are me: A song about pretending to be cool when you are not, the Bwana Wannabe Anthem: http://www.youtube.com/user/officialpsy Very Democrat | |||
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I have used similar sticks to deadly effect on game, including buffalo. Of course, one must know how to use them . . . Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Yes, the "cigarette-grip-of-death technique" of yours: How about posting that picture again, for educational purposes? | |||
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RIP, You might want to cross out Penis ula "If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it". Fred Bear | |||
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Peninsula vs. Penis ula? | |||
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I have been absent, transferring jet fuel into pay checks. Upon my return I am SHOCKED that shootaway still hasn't apologized for his actions and statements on previously on this thread.... Is it possible that he is from Penis-ula? | |||
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