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| One of Us |
Bearing in mind as the hunting world is slowing shrinking there will be a shuffling at the hog trough to get enough to eat. To me this also a part. Small now but it will grow I fear. | |||
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One of Us |
I agree but moving this show from Vegas to Reno was a terrible business decision. You know how much the average outfitter spends on this show after you average hotels, flights, booth and rentals, dinners, uber, taxis etc. Anywhere from $10,000 to $15,000 for two people. It is a numbers game about foot traffic. All roads (Flights) lead to Vegas now. Hard to get an easy flight to Reno and the place is not that nice. People want to hit the easy button and it is easy and inexpensive to get to Vegas from just about anywhere in the lower 48. I have talked to four Outfitters that had booths and they were not happy with turn out. Two of them are not going back to Reno. It will be interesting to do a comparison on foot traffic in Reno, Harrisburg and Dallas. Wonder if all of the show traffic will be down this season. | |||
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| one of us |
Vegas is also a 3 or 4 day, warm and sunny escape for those living in colder climates.That is an important attraction in itself. | |||
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| One of Us |
I agree with both of you that it was business wise a bad move to go to Reno. The point would be to what is best for members, not shoot yourself in the foot. There are enough going against. | |||
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Is Libby Grimes still in charge of the Convention? Jeff | |||
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Not so much an observation as a funny story. I got on the elevator at the Peppermill on Friday afternoon with by buddy. There were 2 guys already in the elevator, one lanky and tall, the other, not so much. The smaller guy got off at floor 9, and the big guy said something to him in a basso profundo type voice. When the doors closed, I looked at him and said, "you sound just like Trace Adkins". As he exited the elevator, he said to me, "yeah, I get that a lot". When I got back to the room, I looked at my Convention pamphlet, and saw that Trace was singing that night. Doh!! Cheers. Chip. | |||
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Yup | |||
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| One of Us |
Here in lies Problem Number One as far as the Convention specifically. Ms. Grimes looks at the outfitters as chattel. They are mere vermin to be squeezed until they are dry and shoved aside. Crooked? Who cares? if you donate a 50K hunt for auction. Her overall attitude regarding the participants is reprehensible. What will SCI do when the outfitters refuse to play the game any longer? tick..tock.. Jeff | |||
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Bingo! I have heard from more exhibitors since I left. A few did just fine. Most didn’t. Some are downright pissed off. The social media post by SCI is insulting. | |||
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If several hundred exhibitors banded together and sent the 'Cancel our booth spaces" letter as a group then just maybe something would change... Yes, the social media post was insulting - especially to the exhibitors. Very frustrating for me as I have always been an SCI supporter, not to mention life member .. "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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+1. FAKE NEWS RELEASES will not make anything better for SCI's leadership, nor for the rest of us. That was a BAD STEP IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. How stupid do they think we are? | |||
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This is how they got rid of the booking agency. | |||
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You know that is an excellent point!!! Maybe.. just maybe... "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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One of Us |
I still like SCI and our local chapter as it gets us together and butters us up for next hunt... That being said, everybody has some issues and imperfections and I take good with bad, SCI included At their shows, I always meet several good guys that I can call friends, see old friends and trying not to look at negatives I have always been “ half full” person. Life is good as long as health holds and hunting is good " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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I had actually forgotten about the booking agency. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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| One of Us |
I was there on Friday and Saturday. The hotels and restaurants were full. The traffic seemed To me normal. Got mixed reviews from the exhibitors some good some bad. I have no ideal what the previous SCI show traffic is compared to this show . If any one out there knows the figures would great to know | |||
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There is going to be a $400 price increase on each booth next year. Lots of people say they are done . Never going back. Long term quality exhibitors. | |||
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Seriously? They are actually going to try and push an increase? Could be the straw that breaks the buffalo's back! "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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I also wouldn't be surprised if there won't be an attendee price increase next year as well. Got to make up for the $1 million dollar loss, that their own board member Skip Donau pointed out, that SCI is apparently suffering in holding the convention each year in Reno.  By the way Larry, how is the DSC Convention doing? | |||
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If you want to become ill. Look at SCI's IRS 990 and how they spend their money. Look at the amount of wages and benefits. Then look at their largest grant which is to the SCI Foundation. Then look at the SCI Foundation 990 and see how much they spend on Wages and Benefits. IIRC, when you remove double counting Revenue for SCI/SCI-F combined is about $17.4 in revenue with $7.4 (42%) spent on wages and benefits. Of the total of $17.4 million approximately $1.1 million goes to actual in the field conservation grants or 6.3% SCI 990 and attachments link https://projects.propublica.or...anizations/860974183 SCI-F 990 and attachments link https://projects.propublica.or...1349349302244/IRS990 Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Just got the Jan/Feb SCI mag today - very thin.... "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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I enjoyed Reno. The show was good. Less Vegas bullshit is always nice. Complaining that the hunts didn't sell might have something to do with the product offered, not the sales venue. | |||
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Busy busy busy | |||
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Personally, I think the back to back shows is the issue. | |||
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Thanks Mike. Very helpful. It appears to be the facts that Saeed has been asking about for a very long time. | |||
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One of Us |
Traffic was considerably down for sure but the bulk, not all, but most outfitters we knew said that they booked more and got more solid leads at this show than in Vegas last year. One fellow told us he surpassed last year's show on the first day. Overall the buzz was pretty positive and Reno definitely laid out the red carpet. I like Reno as it's easy to find everyone every night. The real complaints we heard were from small vendors selling small items that rely on sheer volume. I'd say it was nice to be back in Reno! | |||
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| one of us |
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...fari-convention.html LINK HAS ARTICLE,PHOTOS AND VIDEO. As of January 1, 2018, it is unlawful for any person within the state of Nevada to 'purchase, sell, offer for sale or possess with intent to sell any item that it, wholly, or partially, made of an animal part or byproduct derived from a shark fin, a lion of the species Panthera leo or any species of elephant, rhinoceros, tiger, leopard, cheetah, jaguar, pangolin, sea turtle, ray, mammoth, narwhal, walrus or hippopotamus.' The investigators found more than a dozen convention vendors offering for sale and possessing with intent to sell wildlife products that appear to violate this law. The items include, paintings on elephant ears and skins; an elephant skin bench; elephant leather boots, shoes, chaps, belts, and saddles; bracelets made from elephant hair; an entire mammoth tusk; mammoth tusk carvings; stingray skin boots, shoes, belts and purses; boxes of hippo teeth; a hippo skull table; hippo leather belts and boots; shark skin belts; and a knife with a handle made of narwhal tusk. Investigators say they also found 'canned' lion hunts for sale, in which customers can pay to shoot a captive-bred African lion in an enclosed area from which it cannot escape. Canned hunts are internationally scorned, and SCI claims that it does not allow such lion hunts to be sold at its conventions. Kathi kathi@wildtravel.net 708-425-3552 "The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page." | |||
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Another good reason not to go back to Nevada... Reno OR Vegas! "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
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| Administrator |
Is Nevada going the Kalifornia way?? I like the bit about canned lions! I GUARANTEE you many, many, of the SCI Top Record animals were canned! Don’t believe me? Just look at the South African professional hunters who seem to get them on order like you and me get stuff from the super market!! SCI’s motto is “First for hunters” It is like me saying “I am posting from the dark side of the moon right now”  | |||
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| One of Us |
You would have to read the exemptions in the actual law itself in order to determine if any of these vendors were in actual violation of the law. I would dare say that most of them would not be if they had the documentation, if any is even required by federal law, to back up their possession and sale of those items. See the law posted on the other thread dealing with this issue and the comments made there. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have thought about this. I said the exact same thing. Perhaps I was wrong . It is entirely possible for SCI to have a convention that was a financial success even is there were zero sales by every exhibitor. SCI gets paid one way or another. I guess it depends on their definition of success. | |||
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| Administrator |
Imagine you are in business. You have an event that would cost you 1 million dollars. You charge your clients 1.2 million dollars. Then you force them to pay an additional 1 million dollars for your kindness to allow them to do business with you. Would you not make a profit | |||
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| One Of Us |
Holy Smoke Larry, what are those super flyer shoes you were wearing at the Convention that made the floor walking a dream??...re Infinito's comments??!! We are still traveling so didn't attend either SCI or Dallas...but comments directly from several say that SCI was a disaster and Dallas a cakewalk... One PH commented to me that he ran around SCI doing book signings...did NOT talk to a soul about hunting!! Another comment about attendance- We have learned that the City of Reno donated the convention center and all the busses, but SCI charged everybody an extra $500 per booth this year. Next year they have added another $300 to the price. They are trying to net the same amount of money from fewer exhibitors and only 8000 people attended the show this year. Another exhibitor commented- City of Reno airline traffic was up 16,000 people for the SCI week...they were estimating 4000 exhibitors and 12,000 attendees!!...same person said his guess of attendance was 5000??!! Seems to me that Nevada has shot itself in the foot with the new laws on sales of wildlife parts...maybe this will force a change of venue to a more hospitable State and easier place to fly in/out?? Seems like SCI home state of Arizona might be better...how about Florida...both have big convention centers and International flight presence... Many exhibitors are saying...Only Dallas in the future...has SCI shot itself in the foot too?? Cheers, 470EDDY | |||
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I am still trying to figure out what was so eye catching about those shoes myself. I thought there was nothing out of the ordinary about them. Blue & black. | |||
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Mike. Where does the rest of the ten million go? 17.4m - 7.4m = 10m. Did I miss something?
Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can. | |||
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While the actual grants for conservation are relatively small, you are indeed missing something. The numbers you are discussing are the COMBINED numbers for SCI AND the SCI Foundation. SCI itself does not make such grants except to the Foundation. | |||
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Larry, Thanks for posting. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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They also spend a fair amount for education which I suppose is a good thing. | |||
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SCI does make a few other other grants while admittedly they are small. One also has to look the details of the grant of the from SCI to SCI-F. Typically 80% of the grant is "Services in Kind"; i.e, non-cash. The link the SCI-F 990 is currently down otherwise, I would post the details of SCI-F. Don't you think it is appropriate to look at the combined financials given that like 80+% of the management and Board is an overlap (IIRC)? or am I missing something? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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