quote:

Originally posted by TexKD:


It is just a long way there for us Texas guys and with DSC just a week away we wouldn't go to both shows.

.

I have heard that often.

I had a whatsapp conversation a couple of hours ago with someone who exhibited at SCI. He said it was a positive event for them but that a lot of people were complaining and saying it was not a good show.

Hope they can get it back to Vegas earlier than three years and get back to more separation from DSC.

Might want to go back to page one of this thread and read my (the) last post.

Thanks Vaughn, I did. That quote, about them losing $1M a year, had me wondering if they could leave earlier than three years?

Those are SCI representatives' own words. Who knows?

Someone needs to bring one of these shows East.

Louisville (NRA National Show sells out big)
Nashville
St. Louis
or
Atlanta

As I see it, nothing with Reno has changed. Now, they're talking about more feasibility studies for expansion and the need for 135 million dollars from the public through a room tax increase? The reason SCI left Reno in the very first place was because the convention center wasn't big enough for SCI growing its convention, and there were no concrete plans at that time for the expansion of the airport and the convention center. What has changed? Moreover, SCI announced in 2013 that the Convention was going to be in Las Vegas for 7 straight years (through 2020), and yet it went back to Reno.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Someone needs to bring one of these shows East.

Louisville (NRA National Show sells out big)
Nashville
St. Louis
or
Atlanta

They did a second show years ago in Orlando. They did not turn out well.

If anyone wants to know why people bitch about flying through Reno, they should be in the airport now. What a f’ing disaster.

I really think they need to change their names from Safari and club.

I do not have a problem with it, but the presentation (name) needs to be something like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. The name itself says we focus on habbitat and hunter opportunity.

It is not about anti hunters but marketing to hunters. I told a local friend the best place to find a cow elk hunt was DSC. He did not believe me, because that is a club for elephant shooters.

I think Crazyhorse did a thread about it a couple of years ago asking for new names. That was one thing I agreed with him about.

Perception is reality and Safari and Club is hurting these organizations with grassroots hunters.

Years ago DSC announced a chapter program. They had to say in the release you do not have to be from Texas to join DSC.

The other issue may have been second show, most had done went to the first. If they are going to invest to come East they will have to go all in and not second son it. If Orlando was in my lifetime Imdo not remember, and I have known about SCI since 1992. I can remember the first time I saw the emblem on TV.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
As I see it, nothing with Reno has changed. Now, they're talking about more feasibility studies for expansion and the need for 135 million dollars from the public through a room tax increase? The reason SCI left Reno in the very first place was because the convention center wasn't big enough for SCI growing its convention, and there were no concrete plans at that time for the expansion of the airport and the convention center. What has changed? Moreover, SCI announced in 2013 that the Convention was going to be in Las Vegas for 7 straight years (through 2020), and yet it went back to Reno.

Exactly.I know of a place better than Reno.I am sure they could book there.The North Pole.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I really think they need to change their names from Safari and club.

I do not have a problem with it, but the presentation (name) needs to be something like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. The name itself says we focus on habbitat and hunter opportunity.

It is not about anti hunters but marketing to hunters. I told a local friend the best place to find a cow elk hunt was DSC. He did not believe me, because that is a club for elephant shooters.

I think Crazyhorse did a thread about it a couple of years ago asking for new names. That was one thing I agreed with him about.

Perception is reality and Safari and Club is hurting these organizations with grassroots hunters.

Years ago DSC announced a chapter program. They had to say in the release you do not have to be from Texas to join DSC.

The other issue may have been second show, most had done went to the first. If they are going to invest to come East they will have to go all in and not second son it. If Orlando was in my lifetime Imdo not remember, and I have known about SCI since 1992. I can remember the first time I saw the emblem on TV.

There's a list as long as your arm of things they "ought" to do, e.g., change the name, hire a skilled, high profile executive director and empower him to run the organization, move from Tuscon to Washington, become more inclusive of all hunters, consider merging or consolidating with other groups like DSC, RMEF, etc., drop the awards program . . . but there is not a snowball's chance in hell that they will ever do so.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Those are SCI representatives' own words. Who knows?

Which means you have to take it with a large dose of salt!

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
If anyone wants to know why people bitch about flying through Reno, they should be in the airport now. What a f’ing disaster.

Larry, you just picked the wrong airline , we breezed right through but Delta did appear to be really backed up. TSA gave me and my knee walker a really thorough pat down and swabbing, that took about 5 minutes.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I really think they need to change their names from Safari and club.

I do not have a problem with it, but the presentation (name) needs to be something like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. The name itself says we focus on habbitat and hunter opportunity.

It is not about anti hunters but marketing to hunters. I told a local friend the best place to find a cow elk hunt was DSC. He did not believe me, because that is a club for elephant shooters.

I think Crazyhorse did a thread about it a couple of years ago asking for new names. That was one thing I agreed with him about.

Perception is reality and Safari and Club is hurting these organizations with grassroots hunters.

Years ago DSC announced a chapter program. They had to say in the release you do not have to be from Texas to join DSC.

The other issue may have been second show, most had done went to the first. If they are going to invest to come East they will have to go all in and not second son it. If Orlando was in my lifetime Imdo not remember, and I have known about SCI since 1992. I can remember the first time I saw the emblem on TV.

I believe the Orlando show was in the late 80’s but I am not certain . What I am certain of is that I was there.

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
If anyone wants to know why people bitch about flying through Reno, they should be in the airport now. What a f’ing disaster.

Larry, you just picked the wrong airline , we breezed right through but Delta did appear to be really backed up. TSA gave me and my knee walker a really thorough pat down and swabbing, that took about 5 minutes.

They definitely had issues this morning.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
If anyone wants to know why people bitch about flying through Reno, they should be in the airport now. What a f’ing disaster.

Larry, you just picked the wrong airline , we breezed right through but Delta did appear to be really backed up. TSA gave me and my knee walker a really thorough pat down and swabbing, that took about 5 minutes.

They definitely had issues this morning.

Larry,

See my post in the Travel Forum!

They are suggesting you tip the airline staff!???

It is the 13th and it’s SCI in Reno-what do you expect?

As Karl said, some will sell. Some won’t. I talked to a few who said they did well. Most didn’t.

Some exhibitors are really angry. A couple of well known , high quality operators told me they are never coming back. Time will tell.

We went to our first SCI evening event. It was fun. I thought ZZ Top was great. A woman standing next to us pulled her top off in the middle of the concert but put it back on.

The auctions drag on WAY too long. In part, this is due to the auctioneer trying to start at a high price every single time. Every single time they had to drop the price WAY down before the first bid was received. I recon they wasted 90 seconds on average per item. Multiply that by 28 and they wasted a big chunk of time.


I thought the Peppermill did a good job on an overall basis. They had a few notable exceptions. For example, trying to get a bell man to help with your bags.

We went to the Save Hunting luncheon. It was a good time. Speaker was interesting but not as good as Eva Shockey.

I went to college at a small school in MS. Around 2002, in New Zealand, I met a guy who went to the same school. We have stayed friends since. He was at our function Thursday night as another gentleman that went to the same little school. All of a sudden one of these guys got quite excited. A guy had walked in with an outfitter who went to the same little school. One of my friends had met him on a plane in Argentina. It was a major reminder of how small the world is. This guy knew my college roommates. Unbelievable.

We had a great time. Do not regret it at all. I would rather be in Vegas by far. Seeing all of our friends is what makes it worthwhile for us.

Just made it home, fun drive, ice, fog, nice warm night in back of pickup bed in below zero...
Honestly, enjoyed it better then flying
Met several people from AR, notably Jaglav and Fairgame ( what a class act guys as they treated me like an old friend ) should have made better effort to meet more of you...next time
I like the show, figured nothing is same so every year is different and for us attendees is more fun than operators who need to sell
Hauled some bags for some of my friends back in truck so they didn’t have to lug it back on airplane
Looking into an elephant hunt, figured, I’ll make decision this month
Hope everyone got home safe and sound

We are still in Reno, the PepperMill gave us a free nite if we left on Monday (to ease some of the flight pressure). TSA in Cleveland was worse than normal coming out as they were all whining about the gov shutdown. As a frequent traveler, IMHO most of them aren’t worth the money they are paid anyway but oh well..

As far as the show goes, the floor layout was confusing and like many of you, I had outfitters that sold hunts and were happy and outfitters that were very unhappy and did Not book anything. Was it due to the move to Reno? Who knows.. If they have huge bookings at DSC then I think the writing may be on the wall. If not, maybe people just aren’t booking...

There were tons of custom rifle vendors there - seems like more each year. Many with the 800 yd shot videos.. Does not interest me in the least so I did not stop at their booths. I am a Blaser guy (uh oh.. here it comes) so I did spend some time with Kevin and the crew at the Blaser booth.

Definitely not as many exhibitors and many booths were smaller.

The PepperMill was great. We had a suite at the top of the Tuscany Tower and the view was great as were all the restaurants. We saw the Larry Shores party as we walked by headed to dinner that night. The bus company had some issues but a taxi was only like 5 bucks so what the hell LOL!

Reno rolled out the red carpet for sure! Everyone thanked us for being there, welcome SCI signs everywhere and the SCI show was on the hotel TV. I always felt Vegas could care less if we were there..


I have been involved with SCI for about 25 years and have like many of you, disagree with their vision (or lack of) towards the general membership and I don’t support the awards program. My local chapter gives a great deal to our DNR every year and we try to do good things with the money we raise but we could do so much more if the organization as a whole could get past the “mines bigger” mindset - its just not gonna fly in today’s world and historically results in ethics problems..

It will be interesting to see how things develop if DSC goes gangbusters this year. It will take the exhibitors pushing back as a group to ellicit change - it has to hurt the pocket book!

Well enough digressing.. We had fun and spent too much money LOL!...

One last comment - maybe I’m the only one that has this problem but I NEED to go to the conventions to stir my hunting passion each year. When I dont go, I tend to drift away.. Work keeps my attention and I start looking at the $$$$$ I spend on hunting and thinking “I could be investing that money instead of spending it” and “I really dont have time”. It is important to disengage from the business once in awhile and go see the mountains or the bushveld...

Scott

The last sentence was right on the money Scott
Same here

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
As Karl said, some will sell. Some won’t. I talked to a few who said they did well. Most didn’t.

Some exhibitors are really angry. A couple of well known , high quality operators told me they are never coming back. Time will tell.

We went to our first SCI evening event. It was fun. I thought ZZ Top was great. A woman standing next to us pulled her top off in the middle of the concert but put it back on.

The auctions drag on WAY too long. In part, this is due to the auctioneer trying to start at a high price every single time. Every single time they had to drop the price WAY down before the first bid was received. I recon they wasted 90 seconds on average per item. Multiply that by 28 and they wasted a big chunk of time.


I thought the Peppermill did a good job on an overall basis. They had a few notable exceptions. For example, trying to get a bell man to help with your bags.

We went to the Save Hunting luncheon. It was a good time. Speaker was interesting but not as good as Eva Shockey.

I went to college at a small school in MS. Around 2002, in New Zealand, I met a guy who went to the same school. We have stayed friends since. He was at our function Thursday night as another gentleman that went to the same little school. All of a sudden one of these guys got quite excited. A guy had walked in with an outfitter who went to the same little school. One of my friends had met him on a plane in Argentina. It was a major reminder of how small the world is. This guy knew my college roommates. Unbelievable.

We had a great time. Do not regret it at all. I would rather be in Vegas by far. Seeing all of our friends is what makes it worthwhile for us.

I wish I was There. I love. ZZ Top

Thanks for the reports. Attendance numbers are pretty good predictors of volume of business.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Thanks for the reports. Attendance numbers are pretty good predictors of volume of business.

I read one estimate that attendance was down 30%. True or not, I have no idea.

We have been doing SCI for many, many years, have a great booth location, and a wealth of history to base my opinion on. This was the the worst turnout I can ever recall. I heard numbers, but who to believe. But Africa sales were off dramatically from what I saw in our booth, and a majority of other operators I spoke with felt the same. A ton of " This is it for me" comments, and by established operators. I wish there were more big shows to sell hunts, if you indeed could sell there. But as it is, DSC will no doubt, as they say,
"Steal The Show" as to attendance this year,
as they have done for several years now. A very disappointing show, for us at least.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Thanks for the reports. Attendance numbers are pretty good predictors of volume of business.

I read one estimate that attendance was down 30%. True or not, I have no idea.

I believe SCI stated 18K in attendance in LV last year.
If true numbers of attendees at Reno break 10K, it will greatly surprise me.
Also, the number of empty booths seemed high, especially,for already having cut around 180 booths from last year.

This years layout was somewhat awkward-
with several areas poorly lighted and posted directions somewhat poor.

For us older guys,
the fold-out map not having a booth list with names/numbers printed on the back of the map was a pain.
(really the fold out map this year was essentially useless.)

I know, there is an app for the phones and a magazine pamphlet with the lists, etc.

Having the map where you can circle and mark on it is tried and true old standby measure that works quickly out of a pocket.

Heard lots of (quiet/not in front of the public grumbling) everywhere, heard of a couple of private (among themselves) vendor meetings being held with not so happy choices on returning next year, if at all.

Specifically heard complaints of being back to back with DSC and only 2 days travel from Dallas to Reno next year.
As well, heard grumblings (not new, but, louder this year) that both shows are far too close to the Christmas/New Year holidays and that neither show should start until the third week of January.

Though I have always liked Reno, getting in and out by road and air is far more difficult than Las Vegas.
As to the "C------F---" at the airport.
At 0500 Sunday the airport was already a mess, I can only imagine how the day went from there.

Overall, sort of a mess, very interested to see how SCI responds to what I think will be a record number of complaints.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
We have been doing SCI for many, many years, have a great booth location, and a wealth of history to base my opinion on. This was the the worst turnout I can ever recall. I heard numbers, but who to believe. But Africa sales were off dramatically from what I saw in our booth, and a majority of other operators I spoke with felt the same. A ton of " This is it for me" comments, and by established operators. I wish there were more big shows to sell hunts, if you indeed could sell there. But as it is, DSC will no doubt, as they say,
"Steal The Show" as to attendance this year,
as they have done for several years now. A very disappointing show, for us at least.

I saw you Saturday. It appeared you were packing up and leaving early. I figured that wasn't good.

My first SCI show was 1993, and I have attended every one since. It is my opinion that this years show was as big as any that have been held in Reno. The Convention Center floor space was full. In past years, there had been a large waiting list, so when the show moved to Las Vegas, it took two floors in Mandalay Bay to accommodate everyone. If memory serves me correctly, the following year, and the rest of the years in Vegas, only one floor was used. No doubt that this years show in Reno was smaller than the previous several years in Las Vegas. Other posters here have enumerated many reasons, but I can offer another. The recent interest rate move by the Federal Reserve wiped out over 5 TRILLION dollars in wealth in the U.S. virtually overnight. I know that my own personal loss amounted to more than the cost of another trip to Africa. In fact, we cancelled plans to go there this year, hoping for better times in the future.

Personally, I like Reno better than Las Vegas, but Vegas is a much shorter drive for me, and does not present the weather issues associated with Reno. Another issue is the dilution of assets caused by so many sporting shows clustered together in such a short time. In the space of 8 weeks there is: SCI, DSC, HSC, ISE, Wild Sheep Foundation, Grand Slam/Ovis, Harrisburg, and probably a few more.

It will be interesting to see how the DSC attendance and sales turn out. Time will tell.

My wife and my first time to Reno. I attended for SCI chapter business, meet folks from SCI, Foundation,outfitters and to personally thank donors to our chapter.

Normally their are 8 +/- to Vegas. I was the only one attending from our Chapter that I know of. I have also talked to another Chapter that the same occurred.

The low turnout was primarily because of dates being moved to early January and a little bit of the extra leg in the plane ride.

On the bright side of Reno my wife and I enjoyed going out to breakfast at Pegs and doing a little shopping in Reno.

The buses were nice but our experience was time consuming based on route and ended up using Uber at time.

We attended the show everyday and the point about being the floor being broken up was valid.

Early Saturday morning we rented a car and visited Lake Tahoe and Virginia City returning to the convention in the afternoon.

Our flight out of Reno was at 5:45 AM so we kept the rental car overnight.

When we were leaving the hotel there was more people waiting for the shuttle than could have fit aboard the shuttle. We were at the airport by 4 AM and had no problems getting out of Reno.

We think we enjoyed Reno more because of the side trips.

Jim

On another note I was wondering what affect the news of land grabs in South Africa may have on the sales of hunts. As well as the attacks on white farmers.

quote:

Originally posted by Singleshot03:
On another note I was wondering what affect the news of land grabs in South Africa may have on the sales of hunts. As well as the attacks on white farmers.

Very good point and I have brought this up to the PH associations, telling them that none of us are doing a good job reporting what is really going on with this. I see the TV news reports and read the print reports...hardly anything positive to report. In the past month five different people have contacted me regarding travel to SA, I said I didn't have the facts but I was still planning on going to the Eastern Cape in July. All five said they were either cancelling previously booked hunts or not booking in SA. It's a problem. I spoke with PHASA and the Custodians about it. I asked for legitimate facts and told them we would get the facts out to hunters, SCI said will do the same but we need factual info. The story is that any land re-appropriated will be marginal farm land or unused government land, but today I received an email saying that a couple of productive farms are being taken, one a dairy farm.
I attended 3 events in Reno and I wrote down sales figures for all of the auction items and according to my math, African hunts sold for the
least percentage of stated value. North American hunts sold for the highest, Europe in between. I did not witness any of the "day" auctions. I don't know the attendance figures but regardless of what they were, I honestly wish there had been more attendees and for the outfitter's sake wish they had booked more hunts, it dosn't help either organization for hunters (or outfitters) to lose interest.
It'll be interesting to see how we fare at DSC as to attendance and auction participation. For the outfitter's to be successful I hope lots of attendees show up and book lots of hunts. I'll let you know.

SCI Show was a Huge Success... https://huntforever.org/2019/0...nt=ConventionSuccess

We will see.

If it was a flop, there will be changes made soon.

As much as I defend SCI, the point that it is all about money is true, and if they are hurting themselves in the wallet, things will change fast, regardless of the public statements.

quote:

Originally posted by mboga biga bwana:
SCI Show was a Huge Success... https://huntforever.org/2019/0...nt=ConventionSuccess

I am willing to bet that this was written before the show was done. I would like to know the real story.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
We will see.

If it was a flop, there will be changes made soon.

As much as I defend SCI, the point that it is all about money is true, and if they are hurting themselves in the wallet, things will change fast, regardless of the public statements.

There is little doubt they need money. Things like legislative affairs are enormously expensive. They way they go about it is off-putting.

Personally, I think a change in business model is necessary for SCI to survive.

The "SCI Was A Real Success" article was the main topic floating around the DSC show set up a couple of hours ago. I mean 'everyone' was reading the press release and having a good giggle. I agree it MUST have been written before the Reno convention even started. Kind of a " Hillary Wins In A Landslide" article the day before the election. I must have gotten confused and attended the 'other' Reno show, because the one I was at was poorly attended,and from the large number of guys I personally spoke with, especially in the safari world, sparse indeed in booked hunts dept.

Guys,

As an exhibitor I much prefer Vegas. It's just a bigger venue and doesn't seem as crammed up to me. it's also a more polished event in Vegas. The whole thing just seems more professional.

My negative observations for Reno:

It is much more difficult to get to an from there. I can't even fly direct from Vegas so it kills a whole day through LAX or Salt Lake. I had no issues though coming or going this time.

We took a cab from the Reno airport to the Atlantis. Cab driver was not enthused about loading my baggage and when he dropped us off he flipped open the rear door and never got out to help us with our luggage. A Vegas cab driver is not going to do that. Not professional!

The hotel doormen did not ask if we needed assistance with our luggage and the concierge gave us a number to call once we were in our room to find out when our luggage would be brought up! We struggled it up there ourselves. Not professional!

At the Convention Center it was so apparent that security,custodians and concession workers were just temporary hires. The custodians particularly were shabbily dressed and to be blunt if I met the guy working the bathroom across from our booth anywhere else I would just have left. I have nothing against the working poor but these folks looked bad and in some cases down right scary.

As for the show itself my estimation was that the attendance was notably down. We had one good day on Saturday and the rest was very slow. To tell you the truth only one exhibitor I spoke to was upbeat! Another exhibitor with 30 plus years at the show and ads in national magazines had only talked to one person as of Saturday morning and that was the person that bought his auction hunt!

My positive observations for Reno:

As always the folks in Reno were glad to see us and have SCI there.

The food was generally very good anywhere we went in Reno and better than I remembered. We did have one wilted salad from the concession but the rest was not to bad.

Business wise I made some exciting new contacts and what I sold made the trip more than worth it. Overall though I just think the SCI show is just not the "BIG" show while in Reno. I may look at doing something in Dallas until SCI comes back here. I'm quite disappointed in the Reno show.

Mark

quote:

Personally, I think a change in business model is necessary for SCI to survive.

Here is my opinion only. Wouldn't that business model have to be based on reality-real facts, in order to survive? How can a business succeed, let alone survive, if it cannot present the truth, facts and reality, recognize the painful truth, facts and reality, and then take the necessary business steps to ensure that their ongoing business success is actually based upon facts, reality and truth, and not fiction? Maybe it will take the desertion of a significant number of exhibitors from the next convention in order to make them understand fact, truth and reality. Right now, it seems that with their apparent 'laughable' news release they are only fooling themselves and the general public that were not in attendance. However, those attendees that were there will tell all of their friends and others about the apparent poor convention for sure. And, with no concrete and actual physical changes in sight in Reno for a bigger convention center and the ongoing problems with air traffic, it seems that, in my opinion, you will only fool most attendees and exhibitors once. My question is why did they move the Convention from Las Vegas, when they still had two years to go under their 2013 announcement (7 years in Las Vegas)? And why, in light of the fact that the Convention had grown every year by being in Las Vegas? Why would you move back to a physical area that had proven not to be as lucrative? Even one of their own Board Members publicly stated that they would be losing $1 million dollars a year in Reno, for each of the next 3 years. (See news article posted at the end of page one of this thread) As a business attorney, none of it makes any successful business sense. Just my two centavos worth.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
We will see.

If it was a flop, there will be changes made soon.

As much as I defend SCI, the point that it is all about money is true, and if they are hurting themselves in the wallet, things will change fast, regardless of the public statements.

There is little doubt they need money. Things like legislative affairs are enormously expensive. They way they go about it is off-putting.

Personally, I think a change in business model is necessary for SCI to survive.

I think you're right Larry... They've been bleeding money for awhile and now I bet they are going to be bleeding exhibitors..

I've supported SCI for many years but I think next year I'm going to DSC.

It's gonna take a very large group of exhibitors walking at the same time to force SCI to wake up and smell the coffee!