The current thread on the .338 caused me to reflect on something and review some of my videotape of the elands and cape buff I've taken.

When I first got into safari hunting, one of the overwhelming themes on cape buffalo, were that they were so damned tough, warranting all the nicknames of "Black Death", Mbogo, etc. I must say, in my experiences I haven't found them to really be that tough or difficult of an animal to kill.

Could it be that the legend of this distinguished member of the Big Five, is actually greater than the reality? In other words could the hype of the animal's dangerous nature and the so called "Cape Fear" and "Cape Fever", be the blame for so many poorly placed first shots on the animal?

I'll admit I've lost a few but it wasn't because of their toughness. It was a result of me flubbing the first shot. Once I started treating the CB, as the other CB pointed out to me as, a "big black quail," the so-called "Black Death" began to go down pretty easily. Ole "Black Death" became lights out with one shot.

Some of this thinking became my inspiration for the lifesize cape buffalo target. No one can argue about the mental components that factor into making a good first shot, and I for one believe hunters get too freaked out when they square off against the cape buffalo, causing them to mess up the shot.

Isn't it just like every other African animal? Meaning, shoot him in the shoulder or put the bullet in the vitals and he's pretty much dead.

Just wait for your next one. Your " mojo" could be on holiday.

Sounds like someone is begging for a hot plate of humble pie.


I have killed more than one cape buffalo. Some took more than one shot. Some would have died from one shot but I hammered them again anyway. We don't shoot them with Grandpa's .30-.30 and a box of Remington Core-lokts we bought at Wal-mart for a reason, and there are plenty of non-breathing hunters that took the "hype" seriously and still ended up in dirt hole. Bullets fail, powder fails, sticks turn bullets, bones turn bullets, bumbling trackers, The camera man getting in the way, buffalo don't stand trained like the cardboard cut-out we bought off the internet, his adrenaline, and finaly our own capabilities, no matter how refined, fail. I even once saw one buffalo take a bullet for another buffalo on the run as if he was working for the "Nyati Secret Service". Rarely will perfectly shot buffalo ever kill a man, but it is a possibility. Rarely will a buffalo be perfectly shot, even the ones that tump over after the first crack of the rifle. To the inexperienced chance will have been averted but to the people that know, chance will have only been reduced. Just like a lion, or a leopard that has been wounded an angry buffalo is perfectly capable of making you pay dearly no matter how great that first shot was.

I have only killed two buffalo so I don't really have much experience. Both of mine died from a little 9.3X74 double.

Let say that the "scary bullet proof buffalo syndrome" exists in about 3% of those shot. I don't know for sure; I made that statistic up. That is only 1 in 33. Now for me in my lifetime, that would be a whole lot of buffalo. Actually enough for several lifetimes. Maybe I shoot 28 before I see something really scary. Up until that point I think they are easy to kill as a whitetail.

There are so many variables. Different hunters, different buffalo, alert or relaxed, calibers, bullets, angle of the shot, ect, ect.

As with any animal, a bullet in the correct place is better than one on the edges. IIRC, Saeed has killed around 200. Of course, he is a buffalo killing machine; I have seen his videos. And the more experience you have, the better you get. Just don't get cocky. Ask him how many he has had real trouble with. But then again, maybe there is that next one...

quote:

I'll admit I've lost a few

I don't know what that is supposed to mean.

Buff are pretty easy to kill assuming you shoot them where you are suppose to. Wounded they are the toughest and probably the most dangerous of the big 5.

Thinking they are easy could get you an ass-whipping, or an ass removal, someday.

Mark - I don't think the question is toughness with any animal, including buffalo or elephant! Hit in the right place, they generally die quickly. Don't, and its gonna be a problem.

Two weeks ago in the CAR I shot buffalo & giant eland with my .375 RUM, both of em were dead within 30 seconds. I also shot a harnessed bushbuck with the same gun, and did not find him until the next day. I doubt the bushbuck is "tougher" than the eland or buffalo, but shot placement was the difference.

Does a buffalo shot "perfectly" thru the shoulder (with a suitable caliber and bullet) always go down immediately? If not, do they sometimes come after the shooter?

I think you should ask Allan Shearing about the toughness of Cape Buffalo or maybe you could hold a seance and ask the late PH Rick Hopcraft and his tracker Tinea what they thought about Black Death since they were both killed by one.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:
I doubt the bushbuck is "tougher" than the eland or buffalo, but shot placement was the difference.

Mine was!! I hit him hard in the right place and he died a lot harder than the Buffalo did. Perhaps each individual animal, like people, can be a study of one.

Until fairly recently, the recommended "standard faire" for buffalo was a 375 with solids (without even a flat meplat!!!!).

Buffalo stories have certainly grown over the years and one can be accused on AR of being underarmed with less than a 50 caliber.

The most important thing in buffalo hunting is placement of the first short. Period. You can't sell that though. What you can sell is a never-ending stream of new and bigger guns and cartridges.

I fear that the overemphasis on gun/bullet combination distracts people from what is really important, refining of their shooting skills.

quote:

Originally posted by postoak:
Does a buffalo shot "perfectly" thru the shoulder (with a suitable caliber and bullet) always go down immediately? If not, do they sometimes come after the shooter?

No, they usually run in the direction they were headed.If you shot when he was at ease, he'll go down within 100 yds. If he was already spooked, he may run further as his adrenalin was already being pumped.
Hit near the spine and he'll go right down BUT he isn't dead.

I have never been to Africa but hope to get a dugga boy one day......

Lets take a look at men in battle....some turn & run and others stand and fight. Some crawl with broken leg and arm while others may give up. Some will keep getting up after they hit the canvas and others will stay down. The question to me is - does the cape buffalo in general, tend to get up when put down more often than other game animals? That bloody minded, cussed quality is the unknown X factor. Shoot any animal in the brain or spine and it is as dead as the squirrel I shot with my air gun as a kid. But you hit it in the heart with a solid and a buffalo may live for an hour as the heart muscles close the hole! See Ganyan's article with photos on this subject.

How many animals keep fighting with broken shoulders or a solid through the heart?

TCW from armchair Bwana.

Most all of us agree that well hit buffalo die pretty easily, but poorly hit buffalo get downright nasty.

I have noticed that the big bore guys seem to be more likely to believe the cape buffalo is nearly indestructible, while the medium bore guys seem to be more likely to believe the CB is just a big tough bovine.

I wonder if bullet placement might have something to do with it....

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:
Most all of us agree that well hit buffalo die pretty easily, but poorly hit buffalo get downright nasty.

I have noticed that the big bore guys seem to be more likely to believe the cape buffalo is nearly indestructible, while the medium bore guys seem to be more likely to believe the CB is just a big tough bovine.

I wonder if bullet placement might have something to do with it....

Jason, 100% man! I've shot 10 buffalo, 1 savannah buffalo included, all with the .375 caliber. All but one, died quickly and went no where to speak of. Only the one went for a ways, simply because as an inexperienced 23 yr old, I chose to shoot him up the rear, with the very first shot. Bad idea!

Its all about where you shoot em, IMO.

I don't think anyone is going to say that buffalo aren't tough. It is one of the things we respect them for.

It is in the reaction to this toughness that we differ.

On my first safari over 20 years ago, I took 3 rifles, a 460 Wby, 500NE, and 300 Wby. All of these were hotloaded. Over the years I have shot buffalo with guns ranging from 300 Winmag to 500NE.

I have learned the following things. Shot placement is far more important than caliber. I have learned that I do not shoot the large bores as well as I thought I did (being a slow learner, this took me years to find out.)

On my next safari this fall (4 buffalo) I will have a 375, probably with TSX's.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
On my first safari over 20 years ago, I took 3 rifles, a 460 Wby, 500NE, and 300 Wby. All of these were hotloaded. Over the years I have shot buffalo with guns ranging from 300 Winmag to 500NE.

I have learned the following things. Shot placement is far more important than caliber. I have learned that I do not shoot the large bores as well as I thought I did (being a slow learner, this took me years to find out.)

On my next safari this fall (4 buffalo) I will have a 375, probably with TSX's.

My experience is the same as others have already posted... shoot him well with an appropriate bullet from an adequate rifle and a buffalo is not that difficult. Hit him poorly and the buffalo becomes another animal altogether! Of the 10 cape buffalo and 1 West African savanna buff I have taken, most have taken only a couple of rounds to send to the great grazing grounds in the sky, but one buff I shot in Tanzania took 8 and was standing to the bitter end! I have also learned the hard way about shooting at a buffalo lying down... never recovered that one. Still bothers me! Tough, yes, indestructible, no unless you shoot him poorly and have to follow up!

Like one of my hunting buddies used to say "cape buffalo wake up in the morning feeling lousy and it seems the more you shoot them, the better they feel!". On occasion it can seem like that!

Guy's

Interesting thread, I feel there are two distinctive types of buffalo hunting. Offensive and defensive. Mojo and Saeed are defensive hunters. They are truly remarkable marksman and tend to shoot scoped rifles at a distance.

I and a bunch of others on these boards are Offensive buffalo hunters, getting close by choice and getting inside their personal space.
We choose heavier slower bullets, usually iron sights.

I have shot buffalo with my .500NE six times on one shoulder, all killing shots while he just stood there like I was hitting him with a .17 Remington fireball..

Logically, a buffalo shot with an acceptable firearm at say 100 yards with a scope hit proper, will probably lay down and die as or before you get to him.

Two styles, both fine just different.

Dang opinions, everyone's got one.

Steve

My experience has been if you hit them right, they aren't that tough to kill, but they are quite tough to drop NOW. I have never seen a Buffalo drop to a heart/lung shot like you will sometimes see deer or other ungulates.

I have not had the fortune (or misfortune) to encounter one that really wanted to punch my ticket. I shoot scoped bolt rifles, usually a .416 Rigby, but did use a .375 for one, and try and get as close as possible. As someone else said, they usually run whatever direction they were facing when they were shot, regardless of where I hit them. My first buff was poorly shot, and he eventually just stood and looked at us, but the rest ran until they fell- excepting the one I spined.

I think there is something to what Moja says here, they are not invincible, and they do tend to die fairly easily most of the time, if you have enough gun to get to the vitals and you shoot reasonably well. Shooting well does have a large mental aspect to it, and was probably why I didn't shoot my first buffalo well- listening to too much Ruark and Capstick, I suppose.

Its as several say, when you meet the one with an attitude that you will have problems, and the easiest way to give him an attitude is to not kill him with the first shot. But a smaller round will likely take longer to kill if you don't put it in the CNS, and sometimes that's an eternity if you are only 15 yards away from him.

Look at the pictures of the buff killed and count the number of bullet holes in the buff.You can bet there will be more than one.Then there are all the videos that may be edited to make the hunter look good.What Nganga says is true,IMO.Don't forget the place you choose to hunt makes a difference too.There are places that you don't have to look very hard to find many dagga boys that offer easy shots.

.

I think we have quite a few die hard ideas left by writers of the past.

I have been hunting for quite a few years, and have shot several hundred buffalo, as well as other animals.

Any animal not hit properly on the first shot is going to be a liability to you.

Some might not be as dangerous as a cape buffalo. But they sure are going to give you a good run for your money.

I have seen PHs wounded by other animals. Some quite extensively.

Never under estimate ANY wounded animal.

And I think this sorts out the REAL PHs from the ones who want to see their names in print.

I have seen a lot of commercially produced hunting videos, where it seems the PHs tend to push the enevelope to the extreme for no good reason at all, except to brag of "look how brave I am".

quote:

or is it simply that a bufffalo is yeah big and thus requires a wound of certain size to produce incapacitation and death in a certain time?

Good question. I shot the last one behind the left shoulder at 20 yards with a .375 and a 300 grain A Frame which put a hole in his heart the size of my fist. He bucked two or three times and then turned in the thick thorn to charge. When he dropped his head, my PH stuck him with a .458 Win Hornady solid in the spine. Down he went, but we still waited at least two minutes for the death bellow. If that's not tough, then I do not know what is.

Guys, don't ruin this for me, if I get to Africa the top of my list is buffalo. Having read a couple of old stories about hunts that went awry and how tough and dangerous they are. Now I might be able to get the same excitement and rush from hunting a duiker

Now, even if I could get to africa I couldn't afford Lion, so please feel free to downplay the danger of lion hunting all you want so I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.

I was waiting for Saeed's post, to see what he thought after all that experience. It seems there is a lot of hype out there, spin put on by writers. maybe even more so when writers make bad shots and would rather attribute the ensuing buffalo problem to mean tough animal versus their less than sufficient shooting.

Red

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
It seems there is a lot of hype out there, spin put on by writers. maybe even more so when writers make bad shots and would rather attribute the ensuing buffalo problem to mean tough animal versus their less than sufficient shooting.

I would agree as long as we include internet posters as "writers".

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
It seems there is a lot of hype out there, spin put on by writers. maybe even more so when writers make bad shots and would rather attribute the ensuing buffalo problem to mean tough animal versus their less than sufficient shooting.

I would agree as long as we include internet posters as "writers".

Admittedly there are more buff hunted than lion, leopard, or elephant but the fact remains that a wounded buff will sometimes turn and come for the hunter. Obviously not all the time.

Between screwing up the shot and wounds from snares I know of more guys that have got their clock cleaned from buff than any other animal.

I would tend to agree with shot placement on any animal as paramount. With regard to hunting in Africa, there are some additional elements that come to mind. All the folks in the hunting party would make it difficult to make a stalk on your quarry undetected. If any animal spots you prior to you pulling the trigger, it will probably have some adrenaline running making a DRT situation a little less likely.
I think 3 people in a party is enough; you, PH & a tracker (game scout if necessary).
If you have two trackers, game scout, PH, hunter, a camera man and say your significant other, all the sudden you have a army of characters that potentially can make a ton of noise, motion and scent.
Catch a animal unaware and make a good shot with a good bullet and I am willing to bet there is a lot less drama to experience and write about.
Successful archery hunters make better rifle hunters! Its about getting close, place you shot without being detected.

I have a rather limited history with buffalo compared to some here but I think it is dangerous to underestimate the vitality of a buffalo. Two points: I agree shot placement is critical but the places you find buffalo and the herd conditions often necessitate less than a classic broadside shot. Perhaps in western Tanzania but not in most of Zimbabwe. Second it seems to me a solitary bull you have bumped and knows you are on his trail is really a different story. My last buffalo was alone and saw us when I shot him. I hit him 6 times with a 458 Lott with 5 of the 6 in the chest area. It took him about 5 minutes to give up the ghost. The sixth shot spined him and then he went down.
It is rather unnerving to shoot a bull twice thru the shoulder with a Lott and have him give you that look. When I made those shots my PH said "I think we have a tough guy here" and he was right.

I do think some species of game are naturally more tenacious of life than others; and it is not just size related. In North America, grizzly bear, elk, and mountain goat are seen as tough cookies that can take a lot punishment before going down. For example, elk are seen by most as tough critters that can really "take a lick'n and keep on tick'n" whereas the generally much larger moose is easier to stop with comparable bullet placement.

There have been a lot of people over the years who under estimated the Cape Buffalo, and that was their LAST mistake.

On my 15th buffalo, I made the comment to the Ph that I had never shot a buffalo that was 'dead right there" or dropped instantly to the shot. I shoot a 416 rigby with 400 gn TSX. On the shot the buff went right down, He was broadside at less than 25 yards, the Ph said,, well there is your first one shot kill.. I had already rechambered a round and about that time up he went and took off running,, not towards me fortunately, and I took him down with taking out both front shoulders on shot number 2.. all the big guys can hurt you and all are tough, when you are in close,, any large animal can cover 20 yards very qucikly so they do not have to live long to make your shorts damp!

I agree, you should never under estimate any wounded on unwounded animal. Likewise, never disrespect your opponent of any kind.

By giving the cape buffalo all the respect, you make your best possible effort to make a killing first shot. Focus on a patch of hide just as you would if you were shooting a duiker.

Dago Red (never thought I'd call anybody that name), I agree with you about writer's hype on Cape Buffalo. I'm with you 100% on that one. Just because you flubbed the shot, don't make the Cape Buffalo out to be Godzilla!

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
Guys, don't ruin this for me, if I get to Africa the top of my list is buffalo. Having read a couple of old stories about hunts that went awry and how tough and dangerous they are. Now I might be able to get the same excitement and rush from hunting a duiker
Red

Don't laugh too much, there is one fellow who got a dying springbuck's horn into his knee. He ended up with an extended stay in hospital. Then there are two chaps who I know have tangled with wounded bushbuck. Man that is almost like watching a sewing machine in action.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JBrown:

I have noticed that the big bore guys seem to be more likely to believe the cape buffalo is nearly indestructible, while the medium bore guys seem to be more likely to believe the CB is just a big tough bovine./QUOTE]


Maybe a bad experience or two is what made them "big bore guys".

quote:

Originally posted by LJS:
My last buffalo was alone and saw us when I shot him. I hit him 6 times with a 458 Lott with 5 of the 6 in the chest area . It took him about 5 minutes to give up the ghost.

A big bore in the the ____ "area".

Ding, ding, ding... We have a winner!

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

I have noticed that the big bore guys seem to be more likely to believe the cape buffalo is nearly indestructible, while the medium bore guys seem to be more likely to believe the CB is just a big tough bovine.

Maybe a bad experience or two is what made them "big bore guys".

Yah... Maybe they believed their shit shooting with a medium bore could be hidden be a larger hole.......

I've shot 14 buff and until last year, I would have agreed with you, Marc. I shot 7 bulls with a .375 and the rest with various .416s, a .458, and a .470. All either dropped in their tracks or ran less than 50 yards and fell over dead. Number 13 was the only one to give me any trouble.

I shot that bull with a 286-grain A-Frame from my 9.3x62 through both lungs and then with a Barnes banded solid up the rear. Both bullets did a tremendous amount of damage and both were good shots. I would have liked to have hit 2 or 3 inches lower with the first shot, but it wasn't too high and it really tore up both lungs. Even so, the bull made a determined charge 40 minutes after that first shot. My PH and I stopped it with one to the brain and one to the spine between the shoulder blades seven of my short steps away.

We all helped with the skinning so we could reconstruct the shots and see what went wrong. At the end of the day, the only thing we could figure is the buff was just Hell bent on getting his revenge. I was getting cocky going up to number 13, but I won't take them for granted again. You won't catch me using a 9.3x62 again, either. It was probably just that particular animal and not the cartridge, but the .375 H&H is my personal minimum.

Jason,how about showing up at one of the big bore shoots and teaching us how to shoot? Or to save you time and money just take your video camera along with you when you go to the range and make an instructional video for us.It will really be appreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Jason,how about showing up at one of the big bore shoots and teaching us how to shoot? Or to save you time and money just take your video camera along with you when you go to the range and make an instructional video for us.It will really be appreciated.

I don't think my 375 is allowed at the "big bore shoots". And what difference would it make? You would still insist on shooting a Lott and hitting the ground and/or the bull's scrotum with your second shot, right.....


Sorry for the jab, but I just can't believe you still believe your second shot was not in the dirt. Your video makes it pretty clear.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Jason,how about showing up at one of the big bore shoots and teaching us how to shoot? Or to save you time and money just take your video camera along with you when you go to the range and make an instructional video for us.It will really be appreciated.

I don't think my 375 is allowed at the "big bore shoots". And what difference would it make? You would still insist on shooting a Lott and hitting the ground and/or the bull's scrotum with your second shot, right.....


Sorry for the jab, but I just can't believe you still believe your second shot was not in the dirt. Your video makes it pretty clear.

Look at the video again in slow motion.That is not dirt it is muzzle blast.It is not there in the second vid is it? The first shot went through both lungs and according to Richard Tabor, the buff was out of breath and could not make it up the hill.The second shot,while the buff was running, went through the rear hind leg and through the scotum.The third and fourth shot hit 3-4 inches high on the shoulder.