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One of Us |
Last year I had the Frankfurt airport authorities confiscate my ammunition. I was told I was over the 11 pound limit. In fact, I only had 9 pounds of ammunition, the rest was in reloading components. These included brass and bullets(projectiles), unprimed with no powder. Anyone here have a link to the official German definition of ammunition? I have looked on FRA's website and it just says ammunition(small arms cartridges). I want to be compliant but also be able to maximize my allowance. I have several friends that always ask me to bring various different components as they are not readily available there. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | ||
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Hi, Bullets and brass are not considered as ammunition in germany. Customs all over the world are clueless and they probably couldn't tell the difference between brass and finished ammo. 9pounds ammo is 100% ok and it was not right to confiscate it, sorry to hear about your hassles. Dennis | |||
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Brain, Components have been such a contentious subject that I strongly advise clients to not take them. Lhowell spent some time in the jail in Zim once the rocket scientists figure that the cavity in his X bullets could hold the powder. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Caracal No offense but your fellow countrymen told me last year they were one and the same and confiscated my excess. Their claim was I had 15 pounds, which included brass and bullets. I tried to explain to them the difference but was unsuccesful. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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Are reloading dies allowed? My ph has requested a set. | |||
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Brain Brass and bullets are not ammunition,you can buy it here without license. I can call cumstom tomorrow about that if you want. I know guys that erreicht not allowed to enter the plane because they had a stock or a scope in their handluggage. Some people are just clueless when it comes to guns and ammo. | |||
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Caracal Can you please get something in writing? Jriley I have never had a problem with dies or reloading equipment, I just refer to it as tools. I alway put it in my checked bags. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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Ok will Check tomorrow and try to get it in written form. That'll solve your problem. What happened to your ammo last year? Did you get it back? | |||
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Never saw it again. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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My PH in Namibia was traveling through Frankfurt & took a damaged rifle stock with him to get it repaired or replaced by a German gunbuilder he knew. The police confiscated it from him at the airport for not declaring it as a firearm he was traveling with. He explained that it was just a wooden stock & not a rifle. They told him any part of a firearm is a firearm. He ask to look at it again, when they handed it to him he bashed it on the counter, splintering it. He then said that it was now kindling & walked away. LORD, let my bullets go where my crosshairs show. Not all who wander are lost. NEVER TRUST A FART!!! Cecil Leonard | |||
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In SA, empty brass and bullets in component form are NOT regulated. Anyone can walk into the nearest gunshop and buy as many of whatever he wants (or may be available) with no questions asked. Having said that, there's obviously no way to guarantee that the average policeman or customs official will be savvy enough to know this. | |||
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While I obviously do not recommend attempting to take ANYTHING into Zimbabwe, I understand that SA is another matter. Anne at Air2000 maintains that reloading components may be brought in ONLY if they are the same caliber as the rifles that you bring in too. [This may be someone else's confused reading of the ammo rules but...] If I did take reloading compnents there, I would certainly be sure to be below the duty free allowance in value, and declare them as reloading components. [Though as I wrote that it occured to me that the SA customs form is no longer provided by the airline - I'm not sure of their proceedure now.] | |||
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Just to clarify matters: It's not about national laws but about the Air Navigation Order (Carriage of Dangerous Goods) Act which is international law so the rules should (note the word should) the same in any and all countries. The said act stipulates 5 kgs of ammo which is 12 lbs rather than 9 lbs. The subject of (most) reloading components are (as far as I can remember) technically not covered by the act but are covered by individual import regulations but as has been mentioned, it's probably not worth the hassle of trying to take them. It should be noted that primers not loaded into cases, percussion caps, all black powder and BP substitute (whether loaded into cases or not) are banned from all commercial aircraft and penalties are extremely severe. | |||
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I have had my share of trouble with ignorant police and customs officials because we airfreight bullets worldwide. If anyone wants the specific definitions given by Customs, the SA Police Service and IATA, I will gladly supply it. Email me on gerard(at)gscustom.co.za | |||
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Steve, Thread hi-jack not intended...but in the same vein... If one wanted to hunt with a black powder rifle in Zim how would you go about getting Black Powder and percussion caps since you can't bring them with you??? ______________________ Sometimes there is no spring... Just the wind that smells fresh before the storm... | |||
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'Fraid I'm not 110% familiar with the Zim BP regulations but I guess the easiest way would be for the hunter to ask his outfitter to try to get the necessary from a local dealer or failing that, imported from RSA. | |||
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Steve, Just to be clear for those that have not traveled with ammo 5 kgs equals 11 pounds. If they take 12 pounds some of the ammo may be confiscated. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Hi, I talked with the police office in the airport today. They made it very clear, that everyone can transport brass and bullets in his luggage. They are not listed in the dangerous goods regulations and are not part in the 5kg limit for ammunition. By the way the 5kg is just a recommodation, every airline can allow you to transport more ammunition in your luggage. May I ask who confiscated your ammo, Brain? Was it the police, customs or private airport security? | |||
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The airport police called me while I was waiting for my connecting flight on Air Namibia. They said I was over the 11 pound limit on ammunition, 15 pounds to be exact. I had 9 pounds of ammunition the rest in unprimed brass and bullets. They took all my loaded ammunition and only left the components. Fortunately I was hunting with a 375 H&H and a 7x57. Both were easy to ammunition for in Windhoek, albeit not my gun specific handloads. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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Mark You're quite right. 5 kgs is 11 lbs.... sorry about my finger trouble. Caracal Whoever told you the 5 kgs limit is a recommendation was completely wrong. That limit is international law and any commercial airline that breaks that limit may be prosecuted as may the passenger. | |||
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That came straigt from the police. Can you tell me were I can find this "law". I'm confused  | |||
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I can indeed. You can either search any search engine for 'air Navigation Order (carriage of dangerous goods) Act or you can look at www.shakariconnection.com where you'll find details in a variety of places around the site. The act was originally created soon after the end of WWII with the intention of controlling ALL dangerous goods and was very quickly adopted by all countries by means of international treaty. Either of the methods I've mentioned will give you full details and history etc. 'Fraid my connection isn't fast enough for me to do the work for you and post the links. | |||
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Thank you, Steve. | |||
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I'd forgotten you're based in Europe so you actually have another thing you need to be careful of. 2 or 3 years ago, the EUSSR made a law that banned any commercial flight out of the EU from carrying ANY ammo....... they quickly introduced a waiver for sporting ammo but it should be noted they left the original law in place......... However, the aforementioned act divides firearms and ammo into 2 catagories which are sporting and weapons of war. As the ANO CDGA forbids transportation of ALL weapons of war articles (including ammo) that only leaves sporting that they can carry....... so you need to ask yourself why the EUSSR feels the need to have a separate law that bans all ammo and then has a waiver for sporting ammo. My guess is that at sometime in the future they intend to remove the waiver and leave the ban in place. Therefore my advice would be for anyone travelling from the EUSSR they make a strict point to have the statement 'travelling with SPORTING firearms and ammo' entered into the comments section of their booking AND get written airline approval before travel AND take copies of both written statements with them when they travel. | |||
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Interesting. With only 5kg. of ammo, it would be a short war. | |||
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When I went to RSA last year, the PH asked me to bring some 458 Lott brass and I had some bullets for him. Just left them in the suitcase and didn't say anything. Took out the loaded ammo and handed that to them. No one asked to look in the suitcase for any other ammo.. what they don't know about doesn't get them excited. On the other hand, recentlt got up a package with some empty brass and some bullets, to send to a guy in RSA and our mental giants at customs confiscated it as being military items, though I let them know why it wasn't. When their description says, pointed bullet heads, you know you have a problem. So have to let it go, as less than a $100 invested and they want $250 to give it back.. | |||
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It should be remembered that the (11 pound) 5 kilo restriction is not "international law" for the airlines. If two hunters are traveling together, they both have the right for 5 kg., which means that the plane will be carrying 10 kg. When traveling I would make sure that any others in a party are ALSO designated as hunters, if for no other reason that to have the 5 kg. provision. The restriction is not very onerous for light calibre, but as calibre get up to the dangerous game level, the max number of rounds starts to drop to 80-90 for one rifle. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I am unfortunately traveling by myself. I am limited to 11 pounds/5 kilos. I have never had a problem in the US, only one last year in Frankfurt. I would think when they scan my bags this year in FRA it will inform them of my issues last year. You can borrow money, but you can't borrow time. Don't wait, go now. Savannah Safaris Namibia Otjitambi Trails & Safaris DRSS NRA SCI DSC TSRA TMPA | |||
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Just to clarify matters...... The 5 Kg restriction is most definitely international law for both airlines and passengers (both will be penalised if found to be in contravention of the aforementioned act) and that limit refers to 5 kgs per passenger and that limit may not be combined with others....... that means that if 2 hunters are taking 5 kgs each, they may not combine the 2 lots of ammo into one container...... The airline is also supposed (note the word supposed) to ensure that individual cases that contain ammo are not packed next to each other.... I'm going from memory but think there's supposed to be at least 1 metre between ammo cases. | |||
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I will second that as my brother took a naked rifle stock, ie. he had removed shoulder pad, sling swivels, etc. no trace o metal, just a piece of battered walnut - it was confiscated because it was "part of a firearm" which he unknowingly did not declare. The authorities were more lenient in that they agreed to release to the gunsmith who was going to work on it and have the same authorized dealer export it direct. Loaded ammo and reloading components are still considered as "part of a firearm" as they are directly related to firearms. Yes you can buy these components over the counter but you also have to produce your permit before they release them. It is an EU law and valid in all the EU signatories. The only country I know which couldn't give a rat's ass (probably more than the USA)is Switzerland. | |||
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Perhaps I should have mentioned that the Air Navigation Order (Carriage of Dangerous Goods) Act also stipulates that any calibre firearm that has previously been used by any military force at any time is a weapon of war and as such, technically may not be carried on any commercial aircraft....... that includes all such calibres as .308 & 30.06 etc...... no need to tell me that's a bloody stupid rule. I already know it is!  Most countries/airlines have the common sense to ignore that rule but some such as BA (especially) usually enforce the rule with some vigour...... so be warned. | |||
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Here is something that has worked for me in the past... Put a light cord and swith on the front of your stock and use some tape to secure, if asked at customs what it is , say its a lamp..... on a shotgun stoch, thread the wire through the hole in the back and out the front..... worked in mexican customs a couple of times.. pga | |||
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Careful....export of reloading components requires a State Dept export license. Ken DRSS, PP Chapter Life NRA Life SCI Life DSC | |||
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Yes! When I had Griffin & Howe export rifles for me to Austria last year, the listing of components (brass, bullets) had to quite precise. There's no freebie on components. PS: If you're packing one of Ken's Verney-Carron 600s, your 11-pound weight limit might be 6 rounds!! :-) | |||
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Why not just do the "carry through" thing w/your luggage? The only place they will be looked at, most likely, will be at the airport in the US. Easy to have freshly printed out regs., of the airline you are flying, to show to the fine folks at the gate. When I was asked how much ammo I have I just say "less than 11lbs/5kg". Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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Robert I'm not sure if I understand your comment correctly but it seems you're suggesting taking more than the limit and claiming a lesser amount? The problem with that approach is the regs aren't there to make your life difficult, they're there to ensure the safety of the aircraft, everyone aboard it and those beneath it that it might fall on top of. My apologies if I misunderstood your comment. | |||
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As I mentioned, if four hunters travel together, then there are 44 pounds of ammo allowed. It's not primarily a safety question, but regulation. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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My wife and I are traveling together to Tanzania, although she is only going as an observer. If the (3) firearms are packed in one case under my name, and I pack 11 pounds of ammo in another, can she pack 11 pounds of ammo (under her name) in a separate (3rd) piece of checked luggage? "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken." Tanzania 2012: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/8331015971 Saskatoon, Canada 2013: http://forums.accuratereloadin...4121043/m/7171030391 Las Pampas, Argentina 2014: http://forums.accuratereloadin...4107165/m/1991059791 | |||
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She has the legal right to do so, though she needs to declare herself a hunter. She doesn't need to follow through on that in Tanzania. On the other hand, if your PH OK's it, you can also hand a rifle to your wife and let her shoot one of YOUR animals, should you two have a wish for that. she can earn an impala skirt the old fashioned way. You could also put the rifles in both of your names for the US Customs forms. California is a shared property state in any case. In that way either one of you could legally return with the rifles. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting ammunition limits and reloading components
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