quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by Pulicords:

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Originally posted by Brain1:
I am unfortunately traveling by myself. I am limited to 11 pounds/5 kilos. I have never had a problem in the US, only one last year in Frankfurt. I would think when they scan my bags this year in FRA it will inform them of my issues last year.

My wife and I are traveling together to Tanzania, although she is only going as an observer. If the (3) firearms are packed in one case under my name, and I pack 11 pounds of ammo in another, can she pack 11 pounds of ammo (under her name) in a separate (3rd) piece of checked luggage?

She has the legal right to do so, though she needs to declare herself a hunter. She doesn't need to follow through on that in Tanzania. On the other hand, if your PH OK's it, you can also hand a rifle to your wife and let her shoot one of YOUR animals, should you two have a wish for that.

You could also put the rifles in both of your names for the US Customs forms. In that way either one of you could legally return with the rifles.

Thanks! I appreciate the information.

Sometimes customs officials are unaware of California law. 'Shared property' means that husband and wife can share a rifle. Or declare the light rifle your wife's, if there is a hiccup.

416 Tanzan

I hope you won't mind me correcting you slightly.

The restriction on ammo weight is international law and is made in the interests of safety.

Multiple hunters cannot under any circumstances combine their ammo (weight) allowance into a single container and the airline is responsible for ensuring that each container of ammo (5kgs max) are separated from each other by a stipulated distance. The reason for this is as mentioned above. More precisely, it ensures that in the event of a fire in the aircraft hold, there is not too large a bang if a ammo container is heated beyond it's safe limits etc.

Regarding your comment about the client's wife being allowed (with the PHs permission) to hunt in Tanzania, that also is incorrect. Legally, only the person named on the hunting licence may hunt. Sure, it happens that an occasional non-hunting observer might shoot an occasional animal but it ain't legal I'm afraid.

I'm not correcting you to be bloody minded but rather to ensure other hunters don't get misled and therefore find themselves inadvertantly breaking the law whist overseas or in transit etc.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari: Multiple hunters cannot under any circumstances combine their ammo (weight) allowance into a single container and the airline is responsible for ensuring that each container of ammo (5kgs max) are separated from each other by a stipulated distance. The reason for this is as mentioned above. More precisely, it ensures that in the event of a fire in the aircraft hold, there is not too large a bang if a ammo container is heated beyond it's safe limits etc.

Thanks for the advice Steve. Just so I'm perfectly clear on this: As long as the ammunition is placed into a separate piece of luggage and checked through baggage under my wife's name (vs mine), there's no problem with each of us having 11 pounds of ammunition?

Although she probably won't be shooting, it does seem like a good idea to have my wife's name registered to the guns (through Customs) along with mine. The guns themselves will be in a case checked through under my name.

How have they weighed the ammo in the past? i.e. do they count the ammo containers as part of the weight limit, or is is ammo only?

They weigh the box with its contents and in total may not exceed 5.0Kgs.

As far as Tanzania is concerned, Shakari has very clearly and correctly stated that a non-hunting client (classified as observer) may not bring an extra 5.0Kgs. ammo for her husband nor can the observer legally shoot any of the animals on the hunter's license.
Any and all firearms and ammo entering the country must have the relative import license.

quote:

Originally posted by Pulicords:

Thanks for the advice Steve. Just so I'm perfectly clear on this: As long as the ammunition is placed into a separate piece of luggage and checked through baggage under my wife's name (vs mine), there's no problem with each of us having 11 pounds of ammunition?

Although she probably won't be shooting, it does seem like a good idea to have my wife's name registered to the guns (through Customs) along with mine. The guns themselves will be in a case checked through under my name.

The law states 5 kgs per person but of course, as we all know, airline staff often put their own interpretations on these things...... I'd recommend having your travel agent enter something appropriate into the comments section of your booking and you take a hard copy of that comment with you when you travel.

How the ammo is packed is also open to individual interpretation. Some airlines make it a rule (NOT part of the Air Navigation Order etc) that ammo be packed into a locked metal case. This is obviously the most dangerous way to pack it but nevertheless that's what a lot of airlines ask for.

I'd recommend you put the ammo into something like plastic MTN boxes and then into a lockable case (your choice if it's metal or not) AND ensure you have room in your rifle case for the ammo AND room in your ordinary case for the aforementioned lockable box and then just ask the check in agent if you should put your ammo in the rifle case, ordinary baggage or lockable box and then just do as they ask....... it makes life sooooo much easier than arguing with an idiot.

Rifle and Ammunition licenses for temporary import into a country like Tanzania are usually according to calibre and number of rounds, not according to weight, e.g. 100 rounds/rifle.

Also, the temporary imports are declared at customs where duty is paid on ammo. Once in the country a wife does not need to become a hunter.

Example: if a husband had a permit for 458 Win + 100 rounds and a wife had a permit for 30-06 + 100 rounds. They could both clear customs together. With the 458 the husband could take out a full hunting license for any animal. The wife could elect not to hunt. Legally, only she could travel the country with the 30-06, but if they were together on safari, there is no law that says that a hunter cannot use a borrowed rifle. (Actually, I'm guessing on that. I know that it is true in many countries and situations.)

Sorry for the complications, but there are usually ways to get things done, and legally.

Steve, is correct, of course, that only a licensed rifle owner (even if 'temporary') can take out a hunting license.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
Rifle and Ammunition licenses for temporary import into a country like Tanzania are usually according to calibre and number of rounds, not according to weight, e.g. 100 rounds/rifle.

Also, the temporary imports are declared at customs where duty is paid on ammo. Once in the country a wife does not need to become a hunter.

Example: if a husband had a permit for 458 Win + 100 rounds and a wife had a permit for 30-06 + 100 rounds. They could both clear customs together. With the 458 the husband could take out a full hunting license for any animal. The wife could elect not to hunt. Legally, only she could travel the country with the 30-06, but if they were together on safari, there is no law that says that a hunter cannot use a borrowed rifle. (Actually, I'm guessing on that. I know that it is true in many countries and situations.)

Sorry for the complications, but there are usually ways to get things done, and legally.

Steve, is correct, of course, that only a licensed rifle owner (even if 'temporary') can take out a hunting license.

you're missing the point. The limit on ammo weight etc that we are discussingg relates to the transportation of said items on commercial aircraft and has nothing to do with the import of said items into individual countries.

Isn't it safe to assume that ANYONE can carry up to 5 kilos of ammunition in their checked baggage anywhere, with or without a firearm in their name/possesion, or with or without the intention of hunting with it? Isn't the limitation merely intended to limit the total quantity of combustible/explosive products on any single aircraft?

This does not address the issue of legally getting it INTO the destination country. Which can create any number of other issues.

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
Isn't it safe to assume that ANYONE can carry up to 5 kilos of ammunition in their checked baggage anywhere, with or without a firearm in their name/possesion, or with or without the intention of hunting with it? Isn't the limitation merely intended to limit the total quantity of combustible/explosive products on any single aircraft?

This does not address the issue of legally getting it INTO the destination country. Which can create any number of other issues.

I believe that you are technically correct, the problem is that clerks can sometimes balk and misinterpret things. In general I've not had problems in the US when checking in and I've never had ammunition weighed. Travelling as two people should allow a 10 kg. limit, and should be able to be separated into packages that are under 5 kg, each.

Thanks all for the advice. I'll be packing the ammunition in original factory (cardboard) boxes, placing said boxes in two suitably sized locked Pelican cases and each of those cases will be placed in separate, locked luggage checked through to our destination. I have several MTM plastic cartridge containers and would have preferred to have put the rounds in these (instead of the cardboard boxes), but I've heard that can be problematic, even if these are secured in a locked, Pelican type case.

One of the above pieces of luggage will be in my name and the other labeled as my wife's, so I think we'll be able to get to our destination without much difficulty. I appreciate the assistance from the more experienced members of the forum.

quote:

One of the above pieces of luggage will be in my name and the other labeled as my wife's, so I think we'll be able to get to our destination without much difficulty. I appreciate the assistance from the more experienced members of the forum.

Be sure your outfitter is aware of your intentions so that he can obtain an additional import license for the ammo in your wife's name.

quote:

Originally posted by LHowell:
Isn't it safe to assume that ANYONE can carry up to 5 kilos of ammunition in their checked baggage anywhere, with or without a firearm in their name/possesion, or with or without the intention of hunting with it? Isn't the limitation merely intended to limit the total quantity of combustible/explosive products on any single aircraft?

This does not address the issue of legally getting it INTO the destination country. Which can create any number of other issues.

Every adult but as Fujo suggests, it's a good idea to get an import permit for every person bringing ammo in.

The ammo packaging requirement is that it be in manufacturers packaging OR other packaging that keeps every round separated from every other round.

Here is an email from Lufthansa's corp headquarters.

Hi Susan,



Good News



According to our security services:




Ammunition, in terms of our transport regulations and with the limit of 5 kg p.p., are only full functional bullets, that means including the gunpowder.

Parts of bullets, so as single cartridges or projectiles without any gunpowder are not ammunition and can be transported without weightlimit, as long as the passenger pays the excess, if applicable.



I will forward this to our staff in DFW so they are aware as well.



Brgrds, Zo-An










Sitz der Gesellschaft / Corporate Headquarters: Deutsche Lufthansa Aktiengesellschaft, Koeln, Registereintragung / Registration: Amtsgericht Koeln HR B 2168
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats / Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Dipl.-Ing. Dr.-Ing. E.h. Juergen Weber
Vorstand / Executive Board: Dr. Christoph Franz (Vorsitzender / Chairman), Stephan Gemkow, Stefan H. Lauer, Carsten Spohr

If I read this correctly, you can bring bullets and brass without counting towards the 5 kilo limit.