Karl S wrote:

quote:

As to experience and PH's, why is it that most of the PH's on this board has had bad experiences with you?

Now that you've mentioned it, wonder how many PH's it is?
Won't you quickly go thru my posts and count the incidents please? Let's have topics as well while you're at it!

I do differ with guys on this forum, but in ± 98% of the cases we can settle the differences logically with the more intelligent posters on the forum.
This is one such a post.

A bullet not properly stabilized can cause a lot of damage on impact.

I have a problem when you said:

quote:

The barrel had a 1 in 8.5 twist, (not mine, a friend's). Cannot comment on the actual load, as he realoded it. Velocity was about 3200 ft/sec, checked on a Pro-Chrono.

Have you measured that twist personally in your friend's rifle? What make of rifle is it?
Are you 100% sure it was a .285 bullet?
You cannot comment on load, but it chronoed ± 3200 - why not an exact figure as chrono's usually print/display?

How do you expect anybody for that matter to give exact reasons for events on that lot of uncertian mumbo jumbo?

Lastly, even if you're as big as Goliath you cannot intimidate me since you lack in so many other ways.

quote:

Have you measured that twist personally in your friend's rifle? What make of rifle is it?
Are you 100% sure it was a .285 bullet?
You cannot comment on load, but it chronoed ± 3200 - why not an exact figure as chrono's usually print/display?

No, I have not, but that is what he stated he ordered the twist (custom rifle). as to crono data- 3196 ft/sec ave- 32 ES- 14 SD. happy? You are still duck and diving on an answer.

quote:

Are you 100% sure it was a .285 bullet?

NO, maybe it was a .308 GSCustom bullet in the wrong packaging...?

Do'nt tell me a unstable bullet will cause a lot of damage, that is why I put the following in:

quote:

What effect will a slightly off twistrate have on bloodshot meat, assuming that the reloader that is loading it has half a brain, and achieves acceptable hunting accuracy?

As to people not getting along with you, without involing them and dragging them in, I have received mails from XYZ known SA PH's on this board, all supporting me, and condemming you. No business of you who they are, but Im sure you have a nagging feeling...

I did not put my size in as a threat or to intimidate you, as I am not the violent type.

Why all the questions? Why not just answer my question as it stands? Or are you waiting for Gerhard or someone to come and help you? Does not seem like you have any answers yourself, Kosie.

quote:

Originally posted by Safari-Hunt:
Ok I think my mind is made up ....

Ok I think the 30-06 will get the go ahead so I will start shopping around I have the 375 in musgrave K98 and must see if I can find a k98 model in 30-06 as well somewhere second hand. I just love that 98 mauser action. Then since the 303 will be out of action for most type of hunting the 06 will not just be a loaner rifle but I will use it as well quite extensibly.

Now let my search begin I will take my time and also consider it very important that a good rifle without good optics doesn't make sense so I will have to save up quite a bit.

Frederik

Great sensible choice. I would have suggested a .30-06 too.

For Mauser 98 actioned rifles, second hand Parker Hales might be available in South Africa. I have a Parker Hale 1200 M98 in .30-06 which since glass bedded is the most accurate rifle I own. Best three shot group into almost one bullet hole at 100 metres (no I didn't miss the other two!).

With Parker Hale I believe the model 1100 and 1200 are OK but would steer clear of the model 1000 which were cheap junk.

A CZ would be good, or your South African Musgraves as you mention.

For a cheaper scope I would top it off with a 4x Leupold. Mine wears an old steel 4x Weaver still on it and it has been very useful from 10 yards to over 400 yards.

I would use a 200 grain or 180 gr bullet in preference to a 220 gr bullet in it as the 220 gr has a more rainbow trajectory.

Good luck in your hunt for a suitable rifle. Should be plenty of .30-06's floating around South Africa.

***

To end these bullet discussions use a good Woodleigh Weldcore in it!

Karl S wrote:

quote:

No, I have not, but that is what he stated he ordered the twist (custom rifle).

Who was the barrel manufacturer?
Musgrave's barrels for instance had huge variation in twist irrespective of a specific twist ordered!

Has it ever dawned on you that your friend might have just ordered the GSC .284 bullet by mistake?
Or is it again a question of you not even knowing that their is a difference between the 7mm Rem Mag size and the 7 x 57? Probably the latter.

quote:

Why all the questions?

Kallie, so that you can get a logical answer at some stage in the future - when that'll be only you would know, because this process of dragging the correct information out of you is a tedious one - those things you lack as I've referred to earlier!

Normally people don't get along with each other simply because they don't like to see their own weak points.
That I have experienced through life and here on AR.

My weak point is to speak up and point things like this out when it is something that could mislead others - like you with your foolish statements about GSCHV's.

You have all the details Jagter, yet no answer.

deleted

quote:

NO, maybe it was a .308 GSCustom bullet in the wrong packaging...?

Karl,
This comment is way out of line. You have no basis for making such a reply and I must say that I am disappointed with the way you are dealing with this.

quote:

But being as PH and maybe have the need to borrow a rifle to a client it would need to be comfortable to shoot and should not make anyone recoil shy. Then the other thing is that you must remember that I stay in RSA so wildcats and odd calibres are difficult to get ammo for.

You say the big 5 is not on the list. Then the 30-06 Spr is just the ticket. Recoil is mild and ammo in SA is in abundance. The most popular factory ammo that is available over the counter (from Cape Town to Messina & Upington to Nelspruit)comes in 180 grainers - you pick the brand name. If you are a reloader, the world is your oyster, but my pick in SA would be the 180 gr Rhino Solid Shank bullet. And you do not need to load hotter than 2,625 fps (being a PMP-load with SA powders, safe pressure). Just zero your load to your terrain requirements and you would be fine.

The 30-06 can be stretched both ways (closer and further range work), but with compromises. It has to do with impact velocity for short-range work and wind deflection/trajectory for long-range work. The 30-06 is fine a middle of the road choice where you can vary bullet mass from 150 grains to 220 grains as per your needs.

My nephew is using the 220 gr Woodleigh bullets at 2,350 fps for bushveld hunting with sterling results. Swift A-Frame is another excellent bullet.

With premium Softs my contention is that one does mot need more impact velocity than 2,100 to 2,200 fps to maximise bullet performance as it keeps you inside the threshold strength of the bullet. With mono-metals it is a different story of course.

Chris

So Jagter finally called in reinforcements. Gerhard, can you please tell me what it is he wanted to tell me? Maybe you can do it without personal attack.

quote:

This comment is way out of line. You have no basis for making such a reply and I must say that I am disappointed with the way you are dealing with this.

Gerhard, thats called sarcasm. I am equally dissapointed with the way your agent is handling this, and started this. I was willing a long time ago, to take up the matter private, he also refused that.

quote:

But seeing that I am not marketing any bullets, and you are, lets just drop the topic

quote:

Jagter, if you would really want to continue this personal attack, please do it in the PM section, I am not up for a public debate with someone with that attitude.

His response:

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You're the one with the attitude and now that you're driven in a corner you want to hide your fault in a private conversation.

Once again, I will let the matter rest, or go to PM. (Prefer that you only reply there, Gerhard, as then I can at least look forward to some answers, and not "hide behind the bush"- name calling tactics.). Have you read my PM from last night? have you made all these facts known to your "scientist" agent? If my comment on .308 bullets has hit a nerve, sorry about that, as I said it was sarcasm aimed at your agent.

Regards,

Karl,
Take a step back and look at what you are saying.

quote:

So Jagter finally called in reinforcements. Gerhard, can you please tell me what it is he wanted to tell me? Maybe you can do it without personal attack.

You make it very difficult to pen a reply in a civil manner. Jagter called in no one. I took exception to your comment and said so. No more no less. Why should I launch a personal attack on you? Did my PM to you indicate that I am likely to do so? I dare say not, so why direct the sarcastic tone at me.

If you are offended by someone, direct your sarcasm at that person and do not spill it over to GSC products in a knee jerk reaction. The fact that Jagter distributes GSC product has little to do with it. He used GSC bullets long before he became a distributor. The fact is that he voiced an opinion, based on his personal experience with the product, just as many others have done on this thread.

You shot back with the quote of his post and called GSC bullets a sales gimmick. From where I stand, you put up the gloves first. You mention Jagter's attitude continuously. With respect I say: Have a look at your own.

I maintain that you have no basis for making the sales gimmick statement and the comments that followed it in that post. The implication you make is that the comments on our Gallery and They Say pages are somehow removed from the truth. These comments were made by users of GSC bullets, of their own free will and are edited in several ways before they are posted on our site. Now, if there is anyone quoted in these pages who feel that the item does not represent what they wanted to convey, please contact me and I will remove the item forthwith. All items are posted in good faith and reflect the opinions of those who made them.

The question I have is why, when you have a result that differs so radically from what we say should be the norm, did you not contact me to tell me about it? Others do so regularly. There is a solution to every problem and the chances are that we can find it.

I know I will get chastised for this but gee the .300 RUM really is a useful .30 caliber..................I load 200 gr Nosler Accubonds but if you are going to hunt African Plains Game it could be loaded wit ha 200 gr Barnes X or something similar, I don't find recoil to be bad and it is a caliber that creates good groups easily, I have it in a Rem 700 which is not the best chocie for an African gun but I am sure there are still some model 70's around.

On the other hand yes a 30/06 would be good.

Recoil is an issue and the .270 Win can be handled by most shooters. There is no doubt it works well for most game, but it is limited to 150 gr bullets at the top end and is arguably best with 130 gr bullets on deer-sized game up to 400lbs or so. Consider bullet selection before considering caliber. For heavier game 180 gr to 200 gr bullets are often recommended. That translates to .308" diameter bullets fired from .308 Win, .30-06 Springfield, .300 H&H Magnum, .300 Win Mag, .300 Win Short Mag, .300 Rem Ultra Mag and .300 Weatherby Magnum in factory cartridges.

Of those, the .30-06 is by far the most versatile in terms of bullet availability. In the US, Federal Cartridge alone lists 21 offerings from 125 gr to 220 gr bullet weights in 11 different bullet constructions. The question will be how many can get your hands on and stock for your clients?

One very experienced hunter who used to post here killed more than one Cape buffalo with his .300 Win Mag. I recall at least one was taken with a 180 gr pill (Barnes X?).

A premium-constructed soft-point expanding bullet with maximum weight retention in a weight of 160gr to 180gr delivered in an appropriate caliber-for-size will serve adequately for all big game up to around 900lbs in weight including bull elk and moose in North America and plains game up to and including kudu in Africa. Arguably the best choices in premium bullets today are Barnes MRX, Barnes TSX, GS Custom, Hornady Interbond, Northfork, Nosler Partition, Speer Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and Swift A-Frame.

The most popular factory-made cartridges in the US that offer these bullet weights include 7x57mm Mauser, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Rem Short Mag, .280 Rem, .308 Win, .30-06 Springfield, .300 H&H Magnum, .300 Win Mag, .300 Win Short Mag, .300 Rem Ultra Mag and .300 Weatherby Magnum.

Although it delivers considerably more recoil with its usual 225gr bullets, Federal now offers the larger caliber .338 Win Mag loaded with 180gr Nosler Accubonds. The comparable .338 RUM and .340 Weatherby Magnum are available with 210gr to 225gr bullet weights.

200gr to 220gr premium bullets from the .30-06 Springfield up through any of the .300s and .338 Win Mag will kill any of the world’s antelope plus the large brown bears.

Resources:

Federal Cartridge 2006 Ammunition and Ballistics Catalog

www.federalcartridge.com

AR bullet report from JJ Hack of 19 June 2006:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/474108794

From the FAQs pages of AR:

Recoil!

Frederick,

I can get you a brand new Leupold, at a VERY good price! Let me know if you are interested!

Cheers

Charl
Infinito Safaris

Take Charl up on that offer and put a Leupold VX III 3.5x10x40mm on top of that new .30-06 rifle. That's their standard-bearer. Reticle choices include the traditional Duplex or the new Boone & Crockett range-finding system.

Leupold VX-III

Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by WPN:
Take Charl up on that offer and put a Leupold VX III 3.5x10x40mm on top of that new .30-06 rifle. That's their standard-bearer. Reticle choices include the traditional Duplex or the new Boone & Crockett range-finding system.

Leupold VX-III

Good luck!

I can't agree more. I'm in the UK at the moment, and a friend/client over here is a gunsmith AND agent for Leupold Tactical and Hunting scopes. I'll get you some prices if you want. OTherwise I can pick you one up when I go to the USA in January......

Look forward to hear from you.....

Charl
Infinito Safaris