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Bullet recovery results. TSX-Fusion-Interbond-PMC
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As Promised I have recovered and recorded a lot of information on the bullets used this season. These are the results only from my personal 30/06 which was used as a loaner to these hunters and for a few animals I shot myself. This does not include any other rifles or the game shot with them.

First some of the facts and details regarding the loads and the gun used.

Rifle: Model 70 Winchester PacNor 23†barrel in standard 30/06 cartridge

Winchester Brass
Federal 210M primers
IMR4350 powder 58 grains
Chronographed at 2900 plus at 55deg F

Game shot by 6 different hunters six male one female

6 warthogs
12 impala
6 Kudu bulls
1 Kudu cow
5 Zebra
3 waterbuck
6 wildebeest
4 Red Hartebeest
4 Blesbok
2 Nyala
1 Steenbok
1 Gemsbok

51 total animals. One was not recovered, a Blue Wildebeest was lost although a confirmed hit with a short blood trail.

Shortest shot was a impala at about 40 feet, longest shots were a Zebra at a laser measured 237 yards, Blue Wildebeest at 198 yards, Kudu Bull at 225, and Impala at 177 yards all measured with my LRF 1200.

35 were shot with the Barnes TSX bullets. 7 were recovered
6 were shot with the Federal Fusion factory loads
6 were shot with Hornady Interbonds
4 were shot with the PMC factory loads

My unbiased assessment is as follows. However I must first say that I was admittedly very skeptical of the Barnes bullets based on my prior extensive experience with the original X bullet design. I must also admit to not being very impressed with the Fusions lack of velocity at only 2700plus fps. The PMC bullets were on hand and used to share the difference between factory cup and core bullets and premium handloads. The Interbonds were already a well known performer and had a lot of respect from me.




My rifle was zeroed with the X bullets and shooting hole touching groups at 100 meters. Prior to departure I shot a three shot group to foul the barrel. Upon arrival I shot a 2 shot group to prove the travel did not compromise the scope adjustments. There were 5 shots now through the barrel. Each hunter using this rifle also shot it before their hunt started. The Fusion, PMC, and Interbond bullets would shoot into about a 3+†group mixed POI's with the settings used for the TSX bullets.

The Federal Fusion Bullets: Underpowered for bigger game. The lack of velocity and the unpredictable bullet shapes left me unimpressed. Although they held together they under penetrated and fell short of my desired performance hopes. It’s an excellent inexpensive deer and smaller big game bullet but does not have the kind of killing power I expect with a 30/06 using other loads and bullets. A good choice for deer, impala, blesbok, but I would not likely choose them for anything bigger or even on the tough little warthog. I stopped using this bullet for further shooting on game based on the early limited performance on the recovered game and bullets. With the shallow penetration and oddly shaped mushrooms I was not confident to shoot game as tough as wildebeest, gemsbok and zebra with these bullets.

PMC Bullets: As can be expected with these bullets being Cup and Core design they will kill about like the Fusion bullets. If everything is perfect they work fine, but when something goes wrong they will not provide the edge I would like to see in my bullets. All of them failed to stay in one piece and all lost much if not all functional weight retention.

Hornady Interbonds: Work flawless and 100% predictable 4 out of the 6 were recovered and all had massive expansion with great weight retention. Another hunter used these bullets in his 30/06 AI and had identical performace and recovery percentages as my standard 30/06. The AI version was about 90fps faster at 3000fps. A better bullet would be difficult to choose. I have already posted dozens of pictures and text on these bullets in the past. This years experience is the same. It's a class act by Hornady and difficult to choose another bullet over this design.

The Barnes TSX bullet: Well this was the one that drove this project for me. Although I am very pleased with the performance. I am very happy with the results of so many deadly shots on big tough game animals. I’m still skeptical about some of what I have seen. The 7 recovered bullets look almost identical and have from what I can see 100% weight retention. Not a single petal was broken off and all expanded from the close range 40 yard shots to the longer near 250 yard shots. Some exits were massive and the blood was flowing freely. Others showed me a bore diameter hole and not a drop of blood from the exit. I’m stumped as to how these bullets exit with an exact bore diameter hole? Yet some others have a huge exit hole. I had about a 20% recovered bullet rate from these bullets. The lowest recovery percentage of any bullet I have ever used. Exits are the norm with the TSX. I had a bullet zip clean through the shoulders of a Big Zebra at 237 yards which included the vertebra and one scapula above the shoulders. This is enough mass that I have seen it stop a 270 grain Swift A frame from a 375HH plenty of times. Yet a 165 grain TSX from a 30/06 passed through. 4 zebra were shot with the 30/06. One needed a follow up shot, all 4 of the TSX bullets passed through these zebra. Only the one follow up shot was inside one of them. Zebra, Gemsbok, and Blue Wildebeest are about the best bullet stopping plains game we have. All three species were shot clean through with this bullet. Few provided a good blood trail often due to the bore diameter exit holes. Those that had good blood trails when recovered always had good exit holes too.

Here is an Impala with a noticeable exit hole but you can clearly see there is no blood flow.



I have 4 other TSX bullets I could photo and post here. However they are identical to the first two in this photo. They would be difficult to tell apart had I not marked them before I left! The only oddball in the group is the one from the zebra. It was recovered inside the heart. It has a wrinkled petal which you can see in this photo. All the others are exactly the same.


The rifle was not cleaned, barrel swabbed out, or oiled during the entire trip. On my last evening I hunted hard for a warthog. I walked from 2:30 PM til dark about 6PM I was hunting alone and looking for a whopper warthog I had seen twice in the prior several weeks I had been hunting here. In the closing moments of light about 5:55 I saw what looked like a shooter. At 75 yards he was trotting parallel to the road I was on, and slightly quartering away from me through the bush. When the warthog cleared a bush and left me with a fleeting moment between bushes I leveled the upper crosshair and touched off the trigger when it was layed behind the last rib. It appeared as if I rolled him over but the muzzle flash was too bright. I walked to the spot and saw a spot of blood. Then there in the flashlight beam just ahead he layed dead. The blood flow was significant and the exit was through the opposite scapula.

Several times I tested the accuracy during the week with targets. Each time the bullets were into the 1†square “bullseye†on the target at 100 meters. With nearly 60 shots fired during this trip and no cleaning I trusted this rifle and bullet combination on the last moment shot at the warthog. There was simply no fouling problems with these bullets and this barrel!



I would certainly feel a whole lot better if the exits looked like they had more consistency in size. However I have also come to another probably arguable conclusion with the TSX and the 30/06. I would much prefer to have a 30/06 with this bullet and a rangefinder then a 300mag of any make without a rangefinder. I feel 100% confident that these bullets will penetrate and shoot accurately as far as I would like to shoot. Say 400 yards or so. If you know the distance with the rangefinder hitting the target is not complicated or risky with low wind. These 165 grain TSX bullets in a 30/06 will out perform a 300 magnum with a standard cup and core bullet every time. Sure you can up to range in a 300 magnum and use the 180’s. However if the 30/06 killed 50 of 51 tough big game animals I’m not sure moving to the 300 mag is a practical choice if you want more power. I think moving to the 338 is much more logical. If shooting long range 450 yards plus is the reason then would I agree. However a rangefinder with a 30/06 is still a very do-able shot with these TSX bullets on a calm day.

So do I switch now from the Hornady Interbonds I love so much to the TSX bullets? …………..Wow talk about a tough choice! The TSX shoots a tiny bit better in Accuracy, the tips don’t deform, they seat very tight in the brass with the groves. They don’t have the 100% internal damage consistency that the Interbonds have, but they are close and I cannot prove or explain why the holes are bore diameter on some of the game. I do have a photo coming of the exit on a zebra. It looks like the stallion was shot with a small broad head. It has 4 slices about ¼†long each. It’s a brilliant exit hole. Why don’t they all show this? Maybe 35 big animals under nearly identical conditions is still not enough information? I will say that If I only saw 10-12 of the best exits I would swear these were the best bullets on earth no question, hands down, end of story. I may yet agree to this statement. However there were those few that leave me wondering why a tiny little exit hole as if the bullet did not open or the petals all sheared off? I will continue to use them until the first time I find one un-opened bullet inside an animal. If that never happens I may not use anything else in this rifle. I think they make a better large big game, Elk, bear, zebra, wildebeest, gemsbok, eland, waterbuck, moose, etc bullet then the Interbond because the exits at least in theory should provide more blood flow. I think the interbonds will provide much more explosive impact and internal trauma on deer sized game like antelope, sheep, blesbok, impala, etc.

They do not have a similar POI or load to shoot well from my rifle. They are as incompatible with a single scope setting as possible. I will have to pick one and stick with it. So for now I’ll stay with the TSX. As far as I’m concerned the TSX does more with the available power of the 30/06 then the Interbond does. The much higher frequency of exits is a benefit to good blood trails. I know my weakness as a confirmed bullet recovery junky even though I know they should all exit.

I’m not sure you can make a mistake in choosing between the 165 grain AFrame, Interbond, Accubond, TSX, or Partition, The one that shoots best in your barrel and gets a minimum level of functional velocity should do fine. I guess having to choose between the 165 grain Interbond and the 165 grain TSX for me is actually a good problem to have.
 
Posts: 1261 | Location: Rural Wa. St. & Ellisras RSA | Registered: 06 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Outstanding report. Thanks for going to all of this trouble. I appreciate your efforts.
 
Posts: 10378 | Location: Texas... time to secede!! | Registered: 12 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Thank you for the detailed report. My respect for the Hornady Interbond has gone up as a result.
 
Posts: 18352 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah USA | Registered: 20 April 2002Reply With Quote
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JJ,

Many thanks for posting this interesting information.

I would have to suspect that the TSX bore-diameter exit holes indicate no or minimal bullet expansion. What were the wound channels like?

It is troubling that some of the bullets may not be expanding. This seems similar to what Ahmed Niazi reported about the use of TSX bullets during his Namibian hunt on the African Hunt Reports forum.

It's hard to figure why some bullets would expand and others would zip through. If they are out of the same boxes, then presumably they would be from the same lot(s) and alloys. Otherwise, I might suspect quality control issues.

This is puzzling.


Mike

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Posts: 13675 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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THAT IS A FABULOUS REPORT! Real world experience. I share your recovered bullet interest. Personaly I think of the Barnes/failsafe type bullets as a semi solid when used on plains game. In other words I think that you will get just about the same effect from these bullets in 30 cal on less than 400 lb animal that you would with a 375 with solids. If all you hit is lung the animal will run for a ways but will go down. You can't exspect the animal to show much effect of the hit. If you hit bone/ shoulder/ scapula/ spine they will go down right away. you will always get good penetration. If you expect sudden reaction to every hit these are not the bullets for you. on the other hand if penetration is way up there on your list of things that you expect out of a bullet they will be just your cup of tea.

again great report.

es


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Posts: 1231 | Location: South Texas | Registered: 12 July 2005Reply With Quote
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wery good report, this is how a bullet should be,but i have tested a few in wet papers in a large plastic can , and i have gotten som surprises.

and what Boddington said about swift , that they have taken the big rifles a further step, thats true. that interbond looks fine, iam gonna get some in 458 and see how they are, plus they are cheaper than a few other bullets and thats good but that does not matter if the bullet aint good.
 
Posts: 1196 | Location: Kristiansand,Norway | Registered: 20 April 2006Reply With Quote
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I saw similar tiny holes in many of the animals I shot in Namibia with the Barnes TSX and the lack of blood.

Ahmed
 
Posts: 214 | Location: Virginia, USA | Registered: 26 June 2005Reply With Quote
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Thank you very much for posting that. Wonderful information.


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Posts: 691 | Location: UTC+8 | Registered: 21 June 2002Reply With Quote
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I will wholeheartedly concur on your observations on Fusion's performance on game. A darn shame too because my rifle shoots them quite well.

Thanks for the info.
 
Posts: 1282 | Registered: 17 September 2004Reply With Quote
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JJ,
A very eye opening report with great data from hunting results...
I can say about the accuracy in the TSX in the 375 I am taking to the Selous...Naildrivers!!!
I also will be shooting Hornady's new round nose and interbonds in 300gr...

Have a great season, thumb

Mike


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Posts: 6768 | Location: Wyoming, Pa. USA | Registered: 17 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Jim,

Great report - thanks.

Was there an age difference between the animals with good exit wounds and those with small ones? I'm wondering if skin/hide elasticity could play a part by stretching before penetration then snapping back to an apparently smaller-sized hole.

Was body fat an issue in plugging any blood flow?

Also, did I miss what bullet was in the lost Wildebeest?

Jaywalker
 
Posts: 1006 | Location: Texas | Registered: 30 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Thanks for a great report.
I have always been an '06 user / fan (I have 5) and I like Barnes...now I reckon I too will have to have an attitude adjustment regarding the Hornaday Interbond which I have no experience with.
I have always stuck with the 180 Nosler Partitions and they have never let me down to date. So far all elk and all African game shot with them and the '06 have gone to the ground.


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Posts: 1529 | Location: Texas | Registered: 15 December 2003Reply With Quote
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While I'd still like to know about skin elasticity, Richard Mann's article "When the Bullet Hits the Bone," addresses the issue. On the TSX, he writes:
quote:
I tested several Triple-Shocks in the bone-imbedded media trying to sort this out and penetration ranged from a depth of 18 to 22 inches. In every case, the Triple-Shocks lost all their petals and tumbled inside the media after hitting bone. All of them were recovered base-forward.
This does explain an observed phenomenon - small exit wound and less bleeding (no petals on exit). I wonder if a shorter TSX would have less tendency to tumble.

Jaywalker
 
Posts: 1006 | Location: Texas | Registered: 30 December 2003Reply With Quote
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That's one of the best bullet reports I've read.

JJHACK, did you find or try to find any broken off petals from the TSXs?

As far as the Fusion goes, it seems as if Federal knows the performance of the 30-06 is higher than the strength of the bullet thus they reduced the velocity. I think it'd make a nice 308Win bullet.
 
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Is it possible on the 'bore sized' exit holes that, like a speer gold dot or other LE bullet, the tip of the TSX actually caved in rather than out causing, like the gold dot, it to become a solid and penetrate, versus petaling and ussuing a wide wound channel? What was the internal damage of the 'bore sized' shot animals??

BAxter
 
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Just from the pictures, the TSXs look like the clear winner. If those IBs expanded that much at 06 velocities, I don't think they'd hold up as well in the 300s. I've been making the move to TSXs in just about all my calibers. With good expansion, penetration and even cost, it looks like the TSX is the one to beat for mot hunting situations. jorge


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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
jorge: If those IBs expanded that much at 06 velocities, I don't think they'd hold up as well in the 300s.
I agree. They wouldn't be my choice at significantly over 3000fps, but I have seen pictures of IBs that looked as if they were inside-out and had not lost their integrity. I'd use them in lieu of cup-and-core, though.

Jaywalker
 
Posts: 1006 | Location: Texas | Registered: 30 December 2003Reply With Quote
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You have recovered TSX bullets from the bore size exit wound animals. And you state they appear to have expanded as advertised.

This is a serious question:

Is it possible these bullets did not expand until they struck the dirt behind the animal? That would explain the bore size exit holes. Maybe examination of internal damage would tell the tale.
 
Posts: 1282 | Registered: 17 September 2004Reply With Quote
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The barnes TSX is the only bullet I use now. After clear pass throughs in Namibia with the 180 grain TSX out of the .300 wsm, I was convinced. I now load the 270 grains for my .375 ultra mag. The are VERY accurate. Less than an inch at 100 yards. My remington seems to shoot most bullets well though. Will be loading the 168 grain TSX for sheep hunting come August.
 
Posts: 384 | Location: Tok, Alaska | Registered: 26 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Great report with a lot of food for thought. With the new MRX, that barnes has just come out with, I'm wondering if they may have just solved the non-expanding small exit wound problem of the TSX.

My understanding is that the MRX is shorter than the TSX which would help relieve the tumbling problem. The MRX has a tungston base which is locked in similar to an A-frame and it has a Poly tip to aide in opening to full expansion.

Whenever, Barnes gets up to speed on the production of the MRX where we can load and start shooting some of them, we may find that the TSX problems have been solved. That would be wonderful and make it quite simple to pick a bullet for African plains game. Lets hope.
 
Posts: 213 | Registered: 28 April 2006Reply With Quote
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JJ,

Thanks for the report it answers a lot of questions and raises a few more concerning the TSX. I used them for the first time on my recent trip to Namibia and was very impressed with the results. I've posted some pictures of bullets recovered from an eland and an unusual one recovered from a kudu.
Link to my report

Ahmed Niazi also has a report posted and he didn't have good results with the TSX.

I am going to continue to use TSXs, but I wonder what is causing these mixed results...


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Posts: 3519 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 25 February 2005Reply With Quote
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I have to say, "So what?"

I shot eight animals with eight shots with plain old Nosler Partitions recently, 180 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of about 3100. Shots ranged from 20 yards to 275 yards and game from Impala and Warthog to Kudu.

Each and every bullet passed through the animal, except one, which penetrated about three feet of Wildebeest (which was standing at an angle). That one weighed 108 grains and measured .50 caliber, the whole front lead part having disappeared. The Wildebeest ran about 75 yards.

The only "pencil" hole was an Impala shot at 20 yards in the shoulder. A small entrance hole, about 3" of shoulder disintegrated internally, 3" of spine disintegrated, and a small exit hole.

I don't see how one could improve on Nosler Partition performance very much with TSXs or anything else, at least on plains game.


Indy

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Posts: 1185 | Registered: 06 January 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Indy:
I have to say, "So what?" ... I don't see how one could improve on Nosler Partition performance very much with TSXs or anything else, at least on plains game.


quote:
Originally posted by JJ Hack:
I’m not sure you can make a mistake in choosing between ... AFrame, Interbond, Accubond, TSX, or (Nosler) Partition.


The author made the same observation at the end of his report before you did.


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Posts: 691 | Location: UTC+8 | Registered: 21 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Question for "The Big Guy"

I'm uncertain of who you have direccted your comment to. I don't recall posting I recovered expanded bullets with bore diameter exit holes. If the question were not directed to me then I will also await that reply from the poster you're addressing.

I would find it difficult to near impossible to recover a bullet from the earth someplace after it had passed through game. I have seen this but usually with a termite mound or some other massive earthen background where a bullet impact could be seen. Certainly not something I could imagine as a normal situation.
 
Posts: 1261 | Location: Rural Wa. St. & Ellisras RSA | Registered: 06 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Indy: I agree with your "so what" comments regarding the Nosler. It's a GREAT bullet and still the benchmark by which other bullets are measured. Having said that there are ocassions where a particular rifle just doesn't take a liking to them so one must choose another bullet. To that end, the TSXs are the most consistently accurate bullets I've shot to date, and they do present a slight edge over the partition when it comes to penetration hence, it would be a wiser choice for say eland and for my 340 Weatherby it's a wonderful bullet. The Partition continues to be a good bet, but there are other choices out there that are just as good and maybe a bit better. For my leopard, I have a batch of 210 Partitions ready to go in my 338. jorge


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Posts: 7149 | Location: Orange Park, Florida. USA | Registered: 22 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I've always considered Nosler Partitions to be my go to bullet... until I started shooting the TSX. The TSX is now the first bullet I go to for big game that I intend to eat.

It may not be a consideration to most, but to me it makes sense to eliminate lead from the bullets I shoot at game I intend to eat.


Regards,
Brian


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Posts: 479 | Location: Western Washington State | Registered: 10 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Last year I used 180 grain TSX's in my ott6 while in Namibia. I was impressed how well they grouped out of my rifle. I used Federal factory loads.

Taken were:

Black Wildebeest, 80 yards, through both shoulders. No bullet recovery.

Burchell's Zebra, 200 yards, through both shoulders. No bullet recovery.

Jackal, 40 yards on the run. Well, let's just say I hit him a little high (in the spine) and the poor little guy was a mess! No bullet recovery.

Cape Eland, on the run, 200 yards. Hit the spinal column in the neck. Bullet was recovered on the off side with the shank poking through the hide.

Water Buck, 50 yards, lying down. First shot deflected by branch. Bullet hit his ribs sideways and bounced off. Second shot into the neck and all the way through. No bullet recovery.

And here in WY. Mule Deer Buck, 200 yards. Behind the shoulder and all the way through. Heart had completely exploded. No bullet recovery.

I weighed the recovered bullet from the Eland. It weighed 181.5 grains and was a picture perfect mushroom, just like JJ's. The reason for the added weight was that tissue was still embedded under the petals.

I also noticed that all of these shots were lethal and all but one completely penetrated the animals without a huge loss of blood. I decided since the animals went down immediately or close to it, they were not pumping much blood, their hearts had stopped. This is probably why there was not alot of external loss of blood from the exit wound.

I will continue to use the TSX. It shoots well, has less copper fouling than others and is accurate in my 30ott6.

John
 
Posts: 1143 | Location: Cody, WY | Registered: 06 December 2002Reply With Quote
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If TSXs shoot more accurately than Noslers, it is probably because the monolithic construction represents just one less variable to fool with during manufacturing.


Indy

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Posts: 1185 | Registered: 06 January 2002Reply With Quote
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Thanks for the interesting report. I have now shot some 40+ animals with the TSX and I am sold. All bullets recovered are fully expanded, and usually look like an advertisement. On rare occassion a petal is lost after striking very heavy bone (Eland shoulder ball joint). I recovered one inside a hippo skull that still looks like an advertisement! Most do exit (over 50%), and I do like this fact, even though I love to look at recovered projectiles as well.

My only observation (complaint)about this report regards the statement that exit holes appear to be of original caliber diameter. The picture included shows this is nowhere near the case. That exit hole is much closer to 1 inch than 30 caliber. Yes, I know that hides can stretch, but after using true solids on occassion, you will see there IS a difference. From the photo posted it looks like the Barnes expanded well and produced a large exit. Clearly there is no evidence of an X or broadhead shaped exit. That would be wishful thinking under many circumstances. My experience is that there are often large exit holes, as demonstrated by the accompanying photos. Thhis provides the extra hole to help with blood trailing, and the internal damage is always evident upon close examination of the wound channel. I shoot TSX's currently in 375, 300, 30.06 and 270. I will continue to change over to them in other calibers as my supply of partitions dwindle in those other calibers.
Bill
 
Posts: 1089 | Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA | Registered: 19 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Llammapacker, If my text was written to suggest that the hole in the Impala was common to all exit wounds, I appologise. It was not my intent to show that as a typical exit hole or the whole issue I had with them exiting with bore diameter would have been a silly concern.

I would not have been very credible reporting on this with that concern and then showing a 1" exit hole as typical!

Of the 30 plus animal shot with the TSX, 7 bullets did not exit, and several(don't have the notes in front of me) exited with an exact bore diameter hole. Some like this impala in the photo exited with massive holes. Imapala are awfully fragile aniamls which I would expect to see massive distruction. Wildebeast, gemsbok Eland, Zebra, are a whole different ballgame where hide thickness and muscle mass are concenred.

Again if that photo and text was written leaving the impression that all the exits were 1" I'm sorry for that confusion.
 
Posts: 1261 | Location: Rural Wa. St. & Ellisras RSA | Registered: 06 March 2001Reply With Quote
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JJHACK, thanks for a very interesting report.

Last year I took my 6,5x57R to SA and Namibia and used it on different animals from jackal to kudu.

It was loaded with 139gr TSX to almost 2,900 fps. To say I was impressed by the performance of the bullet would be an understatement.

In some cases exit hole was the size of the caliber but shots had been equally effecticve. Out of curiosity I went to the slaughtery to watch the processing of the animals.

The internal damage I saw would have not been possible if the bullet had not expanded. Trajectory inside the animal was in a perfect straight line so damage should not come from a tubmling bullet.

we tend to believe that the size of the exit is an indication of intenal damage and in my opinion it is not. A bullet that has lost most of its speed and has barely the energy legt to cut theough the skin will always produce a small exit hole while it has done a lod of damage inside.

Just my 2 cents.

Montero
 
Posts: 874 | Location: Madrid-Spain | Registered: 03 July 2000Reply With Quote
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a typo error, I meant 130gr not 139, sorry
 
Posts: 874 | Location: Madrid-Spain | Registered: 03 July 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by JJHACK:
Question for "The Big Guy"

I'm uncertain of who you have direccted your comment to. I don't recall posting I recovered expanded bullets with bore diameter exit holes. If the question were not directed to me then I will also await that reply from the poster you're addressing.

I would find it difficult to near impossible to recover a bullet from the earth someplace after it had passed through game. I have seen this but usually with a termite mound or some other massive earthen background where a bullet impact could be seen. Certainly not something I could imagine as a normal situation.


My mistake. Obviously I thought you had recovered some. Hence the question. Honestly I was trying to help. I'm stumped too about the bore size holes, you reported.

BTW, Sometimes bullets can be found with a little digging on game shot from elevated stands.
 
Posts: 1282 | Registered: 17 September 2004Reply With Quote
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montero: A bullet that has lost most of its speed and has barely the energy legt to cut theough the skin will always produce a small exit hole while it has done a lod of damage inside.
True, but if it retains its petals, I would expect to see some indication of it in the shape or raggedness of the hole. If thse were present, Jim didn't mention it.

I think there's a fair chance that a long bullet stabilized with a 30-06's 1-10" at high velocity would/did tumble, and once begun, its petals aligned it backwards like the feathers on an arrow. The petals then either folded back to their original shot position or broke off, letting the bullet exit tail first, just like a non-expanding military ball. Lots of initial trauma, then complete penetration, but no cutting on exit.

Jaywalker
 
Posts: 1006 | Location: Texas | Registered: 30 December 2003Reply With Quote
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JJ,

thanks for excellent report.

I would suggest the TSX that perforated the animal had lost its petals, and there fore had extreme penetration as it was a wadcutter.

That is not to say it held onto the X petals in an appropreate spot, say the ventrical or large vessels over the heart!

Saeed has so many 375/300 grain Barnes X that are square (not much more than a wadcutter) that the Barnes for sure does loose its X petals within a farily normal velocity envelope.

My 450 Dakota really liked the banded Barnes vs the unbanded bullets. It made a big difference in my rifle.

(No cleaning required).

Andy
 
Posts: 1278 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 16 January 2004Reply With Quote
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I think to make this comparison accurate we can only count the game shot well. Poorly hit game cannot be classed for game reaction when the shots were not typical heart lung placement.

I had two hunters this year that made some very non-traditional shots which dropped a number of animals in their tracks with spine shots. These would not be considered a logical or normal shot placement by anyone. When a shot description is explianed moments before the trigger is pulled and the impact is 30 plus inches from the described location but the animal still falls in it's tracks how can one complain about the way it turned out?

In one case the comment was made,....... wow how did the bullet hit way over there? The frequency of these bizzare spine shots was so high that I took the rifle twice during this hunt and rechecked it in private. Just to be certain that it was not the gun or scope. Using the same target both times I had four shots into the one inch square in the middle at 120 meters.

I had never seen so many shots fired in a single hunt that were so far from the intended aimpoint and yet still dropped the game in it's tracks. At one point in this trip a hunter had hit 8 of ten animals in the spine all unintentional. The phrase "better lucky then good" comes to mind in this situation! The other two shots were a rear leg and a gut shot.

I would need to discount all those for a realistic vision of what the solid well placed shots provided.

On average a heart or lung shot animal was down within 100 yards. On average blood was not found anywhere near the impact site but was starting to flow within 20 yards and usually lasted to 80 yards or to the animal when found less then 100-120 yards. Game that went further lost the blood trail after that in many cases, or provided a drop here and there to confirm I was following the proper set of tracks.

30 calber holes are about the minimum diameter to allow a decent blood trail. Even they are often marginal. Rifles 338 and bigger are a noticable improvement. 375 and over is the minimum for which you can expect something to follow (blood or chunks)the whole way to the game.

I saw several animals stunned and stagger with the bonded bullets(interbond) only a couple with the TSX had any visual impact from the bullet. I saw most of the TSX hit game react as if missed and just run or trot away. Those hit with the TSX that collapsed were all CNS hits.

The impalas hit with the Federal Fusion bullets were knocked silly but never fell from impact. They all died quickly and without a problem. The Fusion bullet would be a top choice for a factory load on most deer species in my opinion.

No animal well hit with any bullet traveled very far. The difference is that some hit poorly with the X bullets still crumpled with damage to the spine. That one Fusion bullet that stopped short of the spine in the waterbuck would have been outright knocked down had the TSX been used instead. The Fusion bullet was just shy of hitting the spine and the X bullet would certainly have drilled right though.

I shot a warthog on my last day steeply quartering away. This would be about like shooting a deer size animal in the USA, only far tougher skin and muscle mass. I would not have taken that shot with a PMC cup and core bullet, or a Fusion bullet. The Interbond I would have expected to be under the skin near the shoulder. I had a TSX in the chamber and it went clean through and exited after breaking the front leg at the base of the scapula.

Those TSX bullets make a 100 year old 30/06 work like a 300 magnum using a factory load. That warthog went ten feet from where he was hit. There was no blood trail but the hog was covered in blood on both sides where he was laying. Below are some photos I've already uploaded and have available. The 30/06 in the photo's is my SS rifle although it's been Roguard treated so it looks blued now.


Blue Wildebeest, 80 yard shot with TSX


Kudu Bull 120 yard shot with TSX


Zebra 125 yards with TSX


Warthog TSX bullet 75-80 yards



Kudu 125 yards TSX bullet

The Photos may start to get repetitve after these. Same game and bullets different hunters and limited different ranges. All shots from 50-250 yards or so.
 
Posts: 1261 | Location: Rural Wa. St. & Ellisras RSA | Registered: 06 March 2001Reply With Quote
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JJ,

Excellent, excellent report! I wish I had the chance to use my 06 last year on my plains game hunt. And to shoot 50 head for a comprehensive report! Maybe next year in Zim.

My experience with the Barnes X and TSX bullets is limited to about 20 head of plains game and strictly with the 35 Whelen and 225 grain bullets. Muzzle velocity of 2650 fps. Throughout, I am completely convinced to the superior ability of this combo. I beleive this a nice compramise in bullet diameter, recoil and effective range for plains game hunting. Blood trails have been very good on the animals that ran off after being hit. As you stated the larger caliber definatly makes a difference in blood trail.

I always find your posts on these matters very insightful and educational, thanks for the report.


BigBullet

"Half the FUN of the travel is the esthetic of LOSTNESS" Ray Bradbury
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Posts: 1224 | Location: Lorraine, NY New York's little piece of frozen tundra | Registered: 05 July 2003Reply With Quote
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JJ

Thanks for your report, it's very well done.

Always liked your rports on bullet performance!


375 Ruger- The NEW KING of the .375's!!
 
Posts: 3082 | Location: Pemberton BC Canada | Registered: 08 March 2001Reply With Quote
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JJ,

Keep up the good work...Enjoy knowing and learning from your posts on bullet performance...


Mike cheers

28 days till the Selous


Michael Podwika... DRSS bigbores and hunting www.pvt.co.za " MAKE THE SHOT " 450#2 Famars
 
Posts: 6768 | Location: Wyoming, Pa. USA | Registered: 17 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Game shot by 6 different hunters six male one female


Jim,

Your math seems a tad flawed here Eeker

Roi

PS. Are you still interested in taking a couple of shots with the 500NE?


DRSS member

Constant change is here to stay.
 
Posts: 626 | Location: The soggy side of Washington State | Registered: 13 July 2003Reply With Quote
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