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Brads recent thread, setting us all straight, made me glad that I have a personal policy of NOT hunting with any PH or company that post's on AR. Forum politics and or dynamics should not enter into hunting. What goes on in the bush, should stay in the bush. I don't believe I have ever spoken about AR or any other internet forum while hunting and wish to leave it that way. Take George's recent disastrous cow thread. Had he hunted with some guy no-one ever heard of, he would have been saved from the self imposed embarrassment he has. Also, any hunter going in after him wouldn't know a damn thing about what happen and the PH might laughingly tell a story but that would be it. If Lion hunting has become a game of Fractions, and pulling a brain-dead move of some kind or just perhaps a sweep of ones barrels is held under the microscope, piss on it. This game we call safari hunting should be fun. Even with it's obvious inherent dangers to all parties involved I've never had a bad day in the bush. I have said for years, I don't think internet forums are healthy for society. People are not held responsible for things said. That's not the world I live in. Cliques form and alliances are strong. It has turned into a reality TV show. Regards, Steve Ahrenberg Formerly "Nganga" | ||
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Hi Steve,  The PH's that i have hunted with in the past, post very little if at all on any of the forums that i am a member to, or a shadow watcher on. These PH's will post a few pictures of trophy animals take that year with a little story of there operations. I think this is a interest post, as most are booked a year out, or have limited openings. With many forum members hiding behind a forum name, i do think that they feel that they can post anything and it will to come back to bite them in the A$$. Some times sound judgement is on the back burner. Kind of like the DOG pile effect. Band wagons are jumped on with out knowing or looking at both sides of the issue/story. Heck anyone can make a story sound great, until you hear the "Rest of the Story" and then ground coverage begins by the posted and there followers. Positive posts are followed and have good to great reviews. My thinking -- If you have issues just take it off line.  >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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Intuitive, Thanks. Bandwagons will be jumped on, yes. I just don't see anything positive coming out of talking about a hunting forum whilst in CAR or Botswana. Its a great source of information and some interesting entertainment. Just look what happens to most if not all celebrities that post here. (eventually) Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Just an observation, nothing more. AR is better than the Regional or more specialized forums, but as you eluded to Steve, on these sites cliques/gangs/clans, however an individual cares to refer to them, are too easily started. While I am aware that others will disagree, one concept concerning Internet Forums continually rears its head. Due to Internet Anonymity, too many people make statements that they would never make in a Face To Face situation. What compounds the issue, is that too many people in this day and time judge others by how they express themselves on the internet. Some individuals believe that comments made on the Internet by another person, are a true and accurate means of judging that persons character. My impression is that the Internet is a cold/sterile medium and misunderstandings are all to easy to occur. It is also, because of some individuals beliefs/ideas/concepts to trash another person and because of the cliques/clans on sites such as this one, extremely easy for individuals with no actual, first hand knowledge of the individuals involved or how things actually happened to make comments/assertions/assumptions that in many or most cases are completely unfounded. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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We are not far, and some of us may live long enough, to see a day when implantable communication devices are the norm. Personal interaction may give way to instantaneous social media. Next time you're in a restaurant look around at all the people texting at the same table at the same time. Look at the Facebook addicts page to tells where they are automatically and then they post what they are eating followed by the "selfie". It's where we are headed. There's advantages to being on AR. I have learned a lot. I have bought and sold things. I became aware of Andrew Baldry here and had a great experience with him. I think that experience may well have been the same without AR but I suspect it was as good as it was because of all the communicating we did ahead of time. Just some thoughts. Without this place I wouldn't have known about Steve's bicycle trek to benefit the Special Olympics. AR does serve a purpose. ______________________ DRSS ______________________ Hunt Reports 2015 His & Her Leopards with Derek Littleton of Luwire Safaris - http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/2971090112 2015 Trophy Bull Elephant with CMS http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1651069012 DIY Brooks Range Sheep Hunt 2013 - http://forums.accuratereloadin...901038191#9901038191 Zambia June/July 2012 with Andrew Baldry - Royal Kafue http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7971064771 Zambia Sept 2010- Muchinga Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4211096141 Namibia Sept 2010 - ARUB Safaris http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6781076141 | |||
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For the record, nothing and no person would have saved Shootacow from this - he intentially put that up on a tee - and got just what he was looking for. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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I've had great fun hunting with some of the ph's that post hear. And have been put in stitches in cMp laughing and the stories about many of our forum members. However I just dont post about the stories I hear when i get back. I keep it to myself. Mac | |||
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I think PHs should post. I never heard of Andrew Baldry but some day I want to hunt with him. I think everyone realizes that there are outliers in terms of people's opinions and I believe most AR readers are smart enough to see that. Some folks are always outliers, while some are outliers occasionally. There are some guys that have been beat up pretty hard, CHC being one of them. He continues to post, however, and I must admit I do respect his tenacity. Personally, I have never "ignored" anyone. Why bury your head in the sand? | |||
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You just made my point, Thank you. Believe me, you are the JOKE to the next round of stumbling halfwits. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Hey AAZ, you might like this, You say CHC has been beat up? Hell, I personally banned him once on another forum. I really like Randall and consider him a personal friend. But I still banned him.  Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Pity. You are excluding a group of PHs and companies most of which are exceptional, e.g., Charlton McCallum, Chifuti, Martin Pieters, Pete Barnard, Thierry Labat, Ivan Carter, Mark Vallaro, Neil Duckworth, and a host of others that I do not mean to exclude but just cannot remember at the moment. From my perspective, we are actually blessed that these gentlemen take the time to come on AR and post thoughts, observations, information and views. It is a far richer experience on AR with them than it would be without. My $0.02. Mike | |||
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Hi Mike, You may be right, no argument here. It's just too damn public. There are also many hundred that don't post. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Another perspective to consider Steve, I think the fact that many of those PHs and companies post on forums like AR, makes them more focused than a PH or company that enjoys relative internet anonymity on ensuring that clients that post on line do not have a negative experience on safari. They have seen first hand how "one ahh shit, can wipe out ten attaboys". They understand that using on line forums as a marketing tool is a double edged sword since someone coming back to report a negative experience can be extremely damaging. Now I guess I am up to $0.04. Mike | |||
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Steve No offense intended but I hope you see the irony in the above quote, being that you are 1/2 of the most legendary "shit disturbing duo" ever to spread feces here on AR. Seriously, you and your pal Adrook were jerks. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Internet forums, are what they are. They are a multi-edged weapon, not just double edged like a sword. Regional forums by far are worse than an International site. On the regional sites, often a certain percentage of the membership is acquainted with each other, off line. They live close to each other and interact socially/professionally with each other off line. Insult one of them and you basically insult all of those that have the off-line relationship. I know personally, that were I going to go to Africa on a safari, I would be more likely to book with someone that I had seen post on AR than someone that hadn't. JMO. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Chip and Drook!!! Yes, we were. BUT… It was all intended purely as a bit of a stand up act. We had some fun threads back then. Go back and look, we had more threads going with 200 posts on the front page than you could believe. We got called every name in the book. For me, that was an act. When I got banned, I came back as a serious poster. Have been (tried to) ever since. But yes, you're right we were in fact jerks. Point taken it is a bit ironic. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Steve, I could not agree more. Internet or not the safari industry is relatively small. IMO it is extremely unprofessional that any of the PHs at CMS was talking about George's cow.(No one despises George more than I. Remember I am the guy who told George the world would be a better place without him. Very bad taste on my part, BTW) Personally I think the old East Africa PHA rule to never discuss negative experiences regarding past clients was a good policy. What is gained from talking negatively? I'm really quite shocked that Blake would feel the need to com on AR to join in the soap opera. Did he feel the need to defend himself? The video is posted, warts and all, for all of us to make our own decisions. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Hi Randall, Hope your Christmas was spectacular!! Here's one of the reasons I say what I do. PH's talk about us. It is just a fact. I was having lunch in the camp in Botswana, when another PH came in. He was between clients. The conversation changed to making fun of clients immediately. I took exception and added, guess when I leave, I'm the next douchebag in the jokes? "Oh,… No no no Steve, You're different." Bullshit, it's what they do. I've heard these guys talk shit it Reno about some very well known and very well respected members here. I was at the adjoining dinner table in "Bricks" wasn't nice, he still doesn't know. That's when I decided not to hunt with the guys on here. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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i enjoy reading hunting forms online and get a lot of information that is useful on planing my trips to Africa. but i do not enjoy some of the things said about others on here. some people are quick to judge others and say things that if they face to face they would not say. that is why when i am DSC convention i am happy to just keep a low profile and talk to the outfitters i would like to hunt with . good hunting lee | |||
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My reaction is, who cares. If Buzz and Myles want to talk about me, have at it. Sheesh we are supposed to be grown ups. Starting to sound like a bunch of high school girls worried about whether Sally likes me because I heard she told Mary that Ann . . . Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.  Mike | |||
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There is nothing wrong with forums in general and this one specifically. Sounds like "whiney bitch syndrome". It is not the fault of an inanimate object that so many here are revealed to be high school girls in fat men's bodies. | |||
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Mike, Go ahead, keep giving 40-50-60-70K a year to people who think you're (not you specifically) a dickhead. I'm not. If that's whiney bitch syndrome, your not very smart, Navaluk. I have found a place where being guided isn't needed, I can find and catch my quarry alone. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Perfect example, right there, I promise you wouldn't have the balls to say that to my face. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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You pay them to take you hunting, not to buy their respect. Respect is earned not bought. If someone does something stupid on safari or acts like a jerk on safari and when a group of PHs get together with their friends, they choose to talk about it, still do not see how that is wrong. Mike | |||
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Lora and I had a great Christmas Steve. Yes, you are correct PH's/Guides/Outfitters talk about their clients, just like their clients talk about them. One of the best sayings I ever read, is "Guide Not God'. Clients all too often view the professionals in less than realistic terms. In many ways much like the public views actors and politicians. We forget that in reality, they are just people with their own strengths and weaknesses. I really do not believe that I have ever been around any group of individuals that did not start talking about the first person to leave for whatever reason, or about the members of said group that were not in attendance. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Mike, I think you understand better than you think. Here's my take; I look at theses guys now, no different than the guy I bought my new Raptor from or even my dentist. I see them as an employee, or as you said, "someone to take me hunting." Once the expectation of friendship is removed from the equation, I feel things just flow better and I have no qualm's about doing shit I want to do. After all , It's my "Vacation" I hunted with Mike Fell in CAR last year, nice fella, we got along well, killed all my shit, gave him a tip and said good bye. Probably the finest safari of my life. Mike did his job, I did mine and we killed the entire contract. Probably won't hunt with him again, no reason, just want to move around, experience different hunting styles in different countries. Familiarity breeds contentment. Oh and Mike, there is a world of difference between respect and disrespectful talk about the guy that just dropped a years salary on his "hunt of a lifetime" Personally, I don't care, but, I've have heard horrible things said about nice and respectful people. Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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That's fine, you do not have to be friends with Fell just like you do not have to be friends with your dentist. By the same token, if another person goes to the same dentist and develops a rapport that becomes a friendship, there is no contempt in that. Also a bit naive to believe that because a relationship is treated more as a contractor relationship that there is less of a chance that the contractor will talk trash about you despite having spent a bunch of money with him. In fact, Fell was just telling me the other day about . . . . Mike | |||
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Ha ha. Mike, you have to admit, there is in fact a bit of hero worship that goes on. I have been guilty of it myself. I think they begin the feel a bit of celebrity, almost expect it. For me, once the expectation of friendship is removed, great. Who knows we may become great friends, but it would be because we genuinely like each others company. How many times have these guys stayed at your house during conventions. There was I time, I thought it was cool, "Gee a professional hunter wants to stay at my house" This hotel's no vacancy sign is out. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Nobody is forced to post on this forum or hire anybody. Am I wrong? Yet you have this giant hissy fit about it. What the hell? Pack your shit and leave. P.S. I will meet you next Tuesday 9:00 am in front of the Riggins Idaho post office and I will read my responses to you again. Slowly. I'm willing to reschedule if you have an anger management class that conflicts. | |||
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Yep. Hide everything we do about hunting from the prying eyes of the public! We should all be ashamed that we do hunt. And so should the PHs do the same. What happened to the idea of health debate? What happened to the idea of exposing future generations to our sport? | |||
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Interesting thread! Steve as mentioned I think you are doing yourself a disservice here by not hunting with fellows that post here- they have way too much to loose by not producing what they have promised and as a whole if they have "survived" AR then they are surely doing most things right. That is one of the main benefits of this site is that you put yourself at less risk of a disaster safari by using the information provided by past clients and operators alike. I agree with you Blake should not have publicly posted anything about George- that was unprofessional and he has been warned as it was very unprofessional. Blake is an excellent PH BUT he is young and these are the lessons we learn. However to not make friends with your PH and likewise for the PH not to make friends with his client - I think is a great shame. I have said this many many times- " I can count on 1 hand only the number of clients that I would prefer not to hunt with again!" and that covers 22 years of hunting professionally. I have forged wonderful and strong friendships with people all over the world. I have traveled and stayed with them by invitation and likewise I have invited and hosted many former clients that I no longer call clients but friends and my life is enriched because of it and the experiences I have shared with them and would hope that that is the same for them!!! | |||
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Thank you Buzz! Blake did not do anything wrong. In fact, I am glad he posted his input about shootaway disastrous hunt. I bet he did not really like to see someone trying to shoot a buffalo out of a herd, in that area with bad visibility, using open sights. Discussing our hunts, from both the PH and the clients sides, can only be constructive. We learn from others experiences. And the real idiots - both clients and PHs - are exposed for what they are. | |||
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I suspect a few more PH's "lurk" here than are willing to post. I do appreciate the contributions the ones who do post make here, although I also think that some behavior around here drives some of them FAR away. Steve, I hunted with one of the guys you hunted with (Jason) a few years back (in AK) a month after you did. He seemed pretty familiar with AR from what you said about it. (and admitted that he just saw no reason to post here...) He did talk a little about you as I asked. He was very complementary. Near as I can tell, there are some guides/PH's who do a bit of a Capstick routine in camp- change names, add some storyline, use a story that actually occurred to someone else; all in the name of entertaining folks around a campfire. Since I have been guilty of that as well, I really don't find it a problem. I do think of most of my guides and PH's as friends. Maybe not close friends in the sense of sending $10,000 on a phone call, but good enough that I am more than happy to pay for a round of drinks if I run in to them or stay over night if they are in town. I guess I don't look at much of anyone with hero worship. On the other hand, hearing a "friend" running you down in a restaurant would be confronted (as in walk up and say, Hi I hear you were saying .... about me, bud...), not left to cause me to be resentful. Whoever did that you are better off not being friendly with anyhow. | |||
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Mike, Is that a quote from the courtroom of a famous case???   P.S. I can see tempers starting to flare here...just a feeble attempt at a joke nothing more.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I think, if I recall correctly, it is a quote from President Obama on the reaction to the Obamacare roll out. Mike | |||
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If you didn't do business with someone because you thought they were going to talk about you,you'd never do business with anyone. Everyone talks about the other guy when he's not in the room. EVERYONE! Especially your industry peers, you have the same successes, failures and headaches ,so you can relate to each other which in turn offers a private environment for venting without effecting company - client relations. The one thing I think IS bad business is talking down about a client to another client, that should be a company policy NO NO. Jerry Huffaker State, National and World Champion Taxidermist | |||
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I've only done one guided hunt in the past few years so I'm a novice, not to hunting but to being guided. I've been mainly a DIY elk, deer and bear (black) hunter for decades. It's really different then hunting by yourself, kind of like being a new golfer on the first tee with a crowd around ... AR and the hunters, PHs, both in PMs and posts were invaluable to me. CR Butler took the time to talk to me on the phone. I talked with John Pete before I went. Mark Young was extremely helpful and set everything up. In my hunt report, I reported that I really blew my first stalk (entirely my fault), and even though Jason could have been extremely frustrated (he probably was a little) I was much harder on myself and the next day I spotted and we stalked a killed a better bear up close. I'm hoping once the kids are through college I can do one or two guided hunts a year, but I can't thank CR, AR, Mark and Jason enough. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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Jason and I got along well because he respected someone who showed up ready to haul 100# on his back for 10 days, do ALL the climbs and not complaint about it. I still think most of you guys don't really get my point. What happens in the bush, on a hunt, should remain there. On an "AR" hunt, it's never going to happen. I have always had great safari's because, I show up fit, ready to go 100 percent, all day every day. Both physically and mentally. If I drop a rifle, trip and crack my head on a rock, miss a hippo at 30 yards or whatever, It should be a chuckle amongst the hunting team and call it a day. I see too much "kiss and tell" around here. I've never met any of these guys (AR PH's) so there is no way for them to take it personally. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Hi Buzz, Please be completely transparent here. There is a polar difference between, "getting along" on a safari and "Gee, you should come visit me when you're in the states Buzz" How often does that happen? Buzz, I've been around the block a few times and truly respect what a Professional Hunter does for us and how hard they work to provide a great service. I think at times, perhaps the industry forgets how difficult it is financially to go on a safari. I really felt bad for George, even thought he completely deserved what he got here. I still felt bad. If I screw up, which does happen, we all do, it needs to be SSS. If folks think I am being a baby about this, fine. I have 34 Safari's under my belt, and have nothing to prove to anyone. Just because, I don't want to happen to me, that which I've seen, heard with my own ears and eyes. It's called independence and self respect. There is a huge difference between a PH telling the next guy about the stumbling guy before him, but to completely disrespect a paying client? would you go back and buy a second pick-up truck from a guy that badmouthed you? There are plenty of Ford dealers around. I'm still driving Ford pick-ups, just got it at a different dealer. I really hope the PH's get this, It is intended as such. Regards, Steve Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Saeed,why didnt you post the video footage of the leopard you shot a few hunts back? You know the one where something went wrong. | |||
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